The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through is works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Law of God in accordance with him being sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), so it is not the case that the coming of Christ means that we should no longer obey the Law of God and that we have been set free to become doers of what it reveals to be wickedness. There is no point in you reiterating that you think I do not understand in lieu of showing how that is the case.
Dysfunctional Faith-Alone justification
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And proof that you do not understand the Mosaic law under Christ and the Liberty given to us by his work on the cross we fulfill the law by loving God and loving one another we don't follow it second is the fact that we are Gentiles and we're never under the law in the first place we are grafted into the Olive Tree because of our faith not because of our works because we have no works as Gentiles besides loving God and loving one another
Is unbelievable how stupid torah keepers are given this day and age of knowledge expansion
In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of Moses (Acts 21:20) while the way to reject what he accomplished would be by returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from. The freedom that we have in Christ is the freedom from sin, not the freedom to do what the Law of Moses reveals to be sin. If Gentiles were never under the Law of Moses, then Gentiles have never needed to refrain from sin, have never needed salvation from sin, and have never needed Jesus to have given himself to redeem us from all lawlessness.
Everything in the Law of Moses is either in regard to how to love God or how to love our neighbor, which is why love fulfills the law and why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey the rest of the Law of Moses.
While it is true that the Law of Moses was never given as a way to become grafted into the Olive Tree as there result of our obedience to it, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6), so those who refuse to follow his example of walking in obedience to the Law of Moses have no grounds to consider themselves to be grafted into the Olive Tree.
As I've stated you don't understand the Mosaic law and as a result you clearly do not understand the teachings from the New Testament you can go on and on and on blabbering your crap but that's all it is the Mosaic law is but a reusable piece of toilet paper to the Christian
It worthless for you to repeat that I don't under the Mosaic Law and the NT while you are unable to show how that is the case. Do you agree or disagree that the Law of Moses is accurately described in the following verses?:
Psalm 19:7-11 The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple; 8 the precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes; 9 the fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the Lord are true, and righteous altogether. 10 More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb. 11 Moreover, by them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward.
Faith alone?
Three things are eternal!
faith hope & charity!
Faith: believe all that Christ has revealed.
Hope: in the grace and promises of Christ.
Charity: Love God with all our hearts. (implies union)
the greatest is not faith but charity!
Christ is who we believe, also our propitiation, and our salvation!
The purpose of our creation is the means of our salvation!
To Know, Love, and serve God!
In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. Lk 1:75
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. eph 2:10
thks
Three things are eternal!
faith hope & charity!
Faith: believe all that Christ has revealed.
Hope: in the grace and promises of Christ.
Charity: Love God with all our hearts. (implies union)
the greatest is not faith but charity!
Christ is who we believe, also our propitiation, and our salvation!
The purpose of our creation is the means of our salvation!
To Know, Love, and serve God!
In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. Lk 1:75
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. eph 2:10
thks
Yes this is because you are stupid and let me make sure that you understand I'm not being mean let me give you a good definition
Uneducable or unteachable are the most direct adjectives for someone incapable of learning.Other related terms focus on:
Untrainable: Incapable of being trained or disciplined.
Ignorant: Completely lacking knowledge or awareness.Illiterate: Unable to read or write.
Obstinate / Recalcitrant: Unwilling to learn due to stubbornness
Yes of course the Old Testament States this it is under the Mosaic law the New Testament Trumps the Old Testament
Well you said it all correctly except for one thing by doing the quote quote love God and love your neighbor you no longer have to do the requirements of the Mosaic law moreover this again proves you don't understand the Mosaic law its scope intent and purpose and there was only given to Israel
The only thing I can think is that you are truly just trolling people because you're a jerk off and are trying to create division but let me tell you something dumbass you got one I'm divided about how stupid an individual can be such as yourself it's okay if you don't agree with it but you're blindly stating that nothing else but your view is true when in fact I'm not even arguing my view I'm arguing Protestant Christianity which you seem to have an issue with there is no active Mosaic law in Christianity
With respect (and from experience), don’t waste your time with him. He is blind to the truth of God’s word because his heart is veiled (2 Corinthians 3:15-16, 4:3).
The royal virtues of humility & charity are virtues of Jesus Christ!
all those who claim Christ must practice His righteousness!
mt 6:33
thks
You got faith wrong.
Faith in Jesus is "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."
Thats the definition in the Vines Greek dictionary for pisteuo, the corresponding verb to the noun pistis, where we get the English word faith.
Believing in the things Jesus has revealed to us will never result in receiving the Holy spirit.
Welcome to CC.
Jn 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
1 cor 13:13
Three things are eternal, faith, hope, & charity!
Faith in Christ who is the truth!
Hope in Christ who is the life of grace!
Charity in Christ who is the way!
I admit all three together includes trust and daily surrender and the necessity of baptism to be born again and receive the spirit!
thks
"faith alone"?
(repentance with works & fruits of repentance )
Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
(full of hope in eternal salvation not salvation itself)
heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
(charity or love of God)
deut 6:5 commanded to love God
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1 cor 13:2 and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1 cor 13:8 charity never fails
1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
gal 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
1 Timothy 1:14
And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
(sorrow for sin and offending God)
2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
(godly sincerity & simplicity)
2 Corinthians 1:12
For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.
Ephesians 6:24
Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.
(confession)
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
(thanksgiving)
2 Corinthians 4:15
For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.
(knowledge & diligence & love)
2 Corinthians 8:7
Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.
(grow in grace)
2 Peter 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
(hope)
1 Peter 1:13
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
thks
(repentance with works & fruits of repentance )
Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
(full of hope in eternal salvation not salvation itself)
heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
(charity or love of God)
deut 6:5 commanded to love God
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1 cor 13:2 and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1 cor 13:8 charity never fails
1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
gal 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
1 Timothy 1:14
And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
(sorrow for sin and offending God)
2 Corinthians 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
(godly sincerity & simplicity)
2 Corinthians 1:12
For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.
Ephesians 6:24
Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.
(confession)
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
(thanksgiving)
2 Corinthians 4:15
For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.
(knowledge & diligence & love)
2 Corinthians 8:7
Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.
(grow in grace)
2 Peter 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
(hope)
1 Peter 1:13
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
thks
T
Thaddeus
Guest
Cornelius and his household received the Holy Spirit just as the disciples did at Pentecost and spoke in tongues prior to being baptised in water
does that imply a standard for all Christians or a special circumstance on the mission field?
thks
T
Thaddeus
Guest
It shows people received the Spirit prior to being baptised in water
I'm not stupid for being unpersuaded by what you've said just as you are stupid for being unpersuaded by what I've said.
Jesus and the Apostle quoted from the OT hundreds of times to support what they were saying, so it doesn't work to take the position that they thought that what they said trumps what they considered to be Scripture. For example, Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God (Deuteronomy 8:3), so he did not take the position that what he said tumps what comes from the mouth of God, but rather he affirmed God as still being an authoritative source. In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the Mosaic Law. In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed to determine that someone is a false prophet is if they speak against obeying the Mosaic Law, if you think that the authors of the NT were servants of God, then you should be opposed to you interpreting them as speaking against obeying the Mosaic Law, and if you think that they should be interpreted as speaking against obeying the Mosaic Law, then you should be opposed to you considering them to be servant of God, but either way followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to the Mosaic Law.
If someone thought that they just needed to love God and their neighbor, so they didn't need to refrain from breaking the Sabbath or committing idolatry, murder, adultery, theft, rape, favoritism, and so forth for the rest of the Mosaic Law. The greatest two commandments are much easier said than done, so thankfully God gave us the rest of the Mosaic Law in order to flesh out what it looks like to correctly obey them. Someone who was correctly living in obedience to the greatest two commandments would be indistinguishable from someone who was correctly living in obedience to the Law of Moses because they would both be following the same example that Jesus set for us to follow. Moreover, the way to obey the greatest commandment in the Bible is essentially by being zealous for teaching obedience to the Mosaic Law (Deuteronomy 6:4-7).
None of that is true other than that you are arguing Protestant Christianity. I grew up in Protestant Christianity being taught to have a negative view of obeying the Mosaic Law, however, the Psalms express an extremely positive view of obeying it, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so I eventually realized that if I was going to continue to believe in the truth of the Psalms are Scripture, then I needed to also believe that they express a correct view of obeying the Mosaic Law and that I therefore needed to change my view to match the Psalms. For example, in Psalm 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the Law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night, so I could not continue to believe in the truth of those verses as Scriptures while not allowing them to shape my view of obeying the Mosaic Law. Moreover, the authors of the NT should be interpreted in light of the fact that they were in complete agreement with the Psalms rather than as expressing views that are incompatible with the truth of what they considered to be Scripture, especially because Paul also said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God. Truly taking the position that the whole Bible is true and that no verses should be interpreted as dumping another verse reorientated how I interpret it and I found that the Bible makes much more sense and has much more continuity than I had given it credit for.
Jhn 5:44
How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
Matthew{23:5}
But all their works they do for to be seen of men:
Mat 6:2
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
Abraham was not openly rewarded by God for offering up Isaac, until He was justified by God in the Scriptures:
James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?...Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
We are justified by our works, and not by faith only. Else we are not justified by our works, because they are not of faith, but evil.
Heb{5:8}
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
We that obey Jesus have His eternal salvation. If we disobey God, we do not have an unconditional security against being judged for our own evil deeds.
1 Peter{1:14}
As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
If we are disobeying God, we are the unjustified children of disobedience, not the justified children of obedience.
Col 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
I preach James 2, as all the apostles, according to the Scriptures as written.
This is the honest version of OSAS: If works do not justify us, but faith only, then repentance and obedience has nothing to do with justification, except to believe only.
The more common form of OSAS calls upon some repentance and obedience, but not all. And yet, as with all OSAS unconditional security, their faith alone saves and justifies apart from their works.
Our faith in Christ does not justify us, if we are now disobeying God as the children of disobedience, and not obeying as the children of obedience.
All OSAS is the same with unconditional eternal security by faith alone. But the lukewarm version preaches some good works to show for it:
All their works become a fruit show among themselves, but not to be justified with God.
Rev 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:18
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Luther preached justification by faith alone, but not by faith that is alone.
He never preached justification apart from our works.
I believe he wrongly emphasized faith 'alone', because he was rightly fighting against Catholic works of merit to be saved by; Which like the Jews' traditions, are not the works of righteousness we do through Jesus Christ.
Eternal salvation doesn't dismiss any Scripture of God. It confirms the obedient are justified with God, not the disobedient.
It is with OSAS unconditional eternal security by faith alone without works.
It always is with James 2, that faith without works is dead, being alone.
Whether latter or former, if we are not doing good by our faith, then we are not justified with God by our faith alone.
Our faith is made dead by not doing the good we know to do:
Jas 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
God saves us from doing evil, that we may do good and be resurrected unto life, not unto condemnation and shame by our works.
2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;
Heb 10:29
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
The problem is not Paul teaching justification by faith, nor James teaching justification by works.
The problem is if we teach justification by faith alone, or justification by works alone.
If our works are with faith toward God, then our works are dead.
Rom 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
If our faith is without works of God, then our faith is dead.
Jas 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
We are justified by our faith in Jesus Christ. We are justified by our works of faith through Jesus Christ.
If our faith is not doing good, our faith is no good to God nor man. If our works are not through Jesus Christ, our works are dead to God.
James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
1Co 13:3
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.