So when you going to explain how people who were reconciled to God by His Sons Death for them centuries b4 they were born, how are they born under His wrath as those described in Rom 1:18ff Dont you now what being reconciled to God means ? Obviously not
Reconciled to God while enemies !
- Thread starter brightfame52
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Rom 5:10, Saving after reconciliation !
Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
This scripture teaches a Blessed Truth that very few can receive, and that is there is a Saving or Salvation that comes after Reconciliation and it applies only to those that were reconciled to God by Christ's Death, while they were being Enemies.
That word enemies in the original is present tense, denoting while being in a state of being enemies/unbelievers, they were reconciled, which is past tense, and all such reconciled, while being enemies, shall be saved by His Life, that is Salvation shall be applied to them !3
Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
This scripture teaches a Blessed Truth that very few can receive, and that is there is a Saving or Salvation that comes after Reconciliation and it applies only to those that were reconciled to God by Christ's Death, while they were being Enemies.
That word enemies in the original is present tense, denoting while being in a state of being enemies/unbelievers, they were reconciled, which is past tense, and all such reconciled, while being enemies, shall be saved by His Life, that is Salvation shall be applied to them !3
T
Thaddeus
Guest
Im sure you hope others attain to the level of knowledge you believe you have
T
Thaddeus
Guest
But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation – 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. Col1:22&23
The above is a truth some cannot receive, so, they theologise to overturn Paul's words
The above is a truth some cannot receive, so, they theologise to overturn Paul's words
reneweddaybyday said:
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
The "ambassadors for Christ" are faithful believers who speak God's Word to others and those who yield (remain passive) to the Word of God are the ones who become reconciled to God.
You are now causing the one who is to remain passive to engage in activity through your "embracing the word of reconciliation" schtick ... smh ...
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quite the contrary ... when a person yields himself or herself to God, he or she remains passive ... does nothing ...
now you're contradicting yourself because "embracing the word of reconciliation" is an action ... which completely contradicts your ongoing claim ...
I have explained to you that the words "be ye reconciled" in 2 Corinthians 5:20 mean that the person is to yield to God.
That makes the person active
In 2 Corinthians 5:20, the ones who are "already reconciled" are the ones referred to as "ambassadors for Christ"
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
The "ambassadors for Christ" are faithful believers who speak God's Word to others and those who yield (remain passive) to the Word of God are the ones who become reconciled to God.
You are now causing the one who is to remain passive to engage in activity through your "embracing the word of reconciliation" schtick ... smh ...
.
I never said a preacher gives spiritual life ... I have always maintained that it is the Word of God which gives life.
The preacher is an "ambassador for Christ" and those who yield (remain passive) to the powerful Word of God are the ones who become reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:20).
Your belief that I said a preacher gives spiritual life is "another distraction and rabbit trail, and you were dishonest, and you have been throughout all of our discussions over the years".
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The one who obviously does not know what being reconciled to God means is the one who claims ...
what a sham!!!
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What knowledge I have is by Grace, nothing I acquired with my natural intellect
Yes caused by the power and grace of God Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Believe here is active, the subject acted but it was by means of Grace. Through here is the prep dia meaning
- of means
- by
- by the means of
- of means
- through
- the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
- by reason of
- on account of
- because of for this reason
- therefore
- on this account
- the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
Grace is the means by which he acted or believed.
Its the same principle in 2 Cor 5 their embracing the word was caused by the command and power of God.
There is no escaping we are active in conversion, but its caused by God
Just like people come [active] to Jesus but they were drawn y the Power of the Father impelling them Jn 6:44
Jn 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
The coming is active, but the giving was the cause for them coming, the giving was only the Fathers action.
These things you seem to be unacquainted with
Not only the ambassadors are already reconciled, but the ones God is not imputing their sins unto them are reconciled Vs 19 .Also in Vs 18 of 2 Cor 5
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us[all believers] to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us[the apostles] the ministry of reconciliation;
This is confirmed from other scripture on the same topic Rom 5:10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Now you can deny and resist it all you want, the ones the imperative was issued to in Vs 20 are already legally without sin and reconciled by the death of Christ.
No the one being caused to do something becomes active, that was the purpose for the exercising of power upon them.
Just like the doing here is caused by God Ezk 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
To do them is active, but what was the cause ?
Seem like you did.
Oh really. Be specific, what do you mean by the word of God gives life ? Are you talking about Eternal Life
Yeah but they are nothing Paul says, God
gives the increase 1 Cor 3:5-7
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
You need to clarify what you mean by the word gives life, what word ? The Logos who is Christ ? He gives Life Eternal Jn 17:2
So explain to the world how the word gives a person Life. We have too many people who teach Gospel regeneration, they believe a person cant be born again unless a preacher preaches the Gospel to them and cause it. So explain
T
Thaddeus
Guest
That is a common belief, but incorrect. It was Jesus Who was elect from the foundations of the world. We become elect with Him when we are placed into Him. One thing is unmistakable, and that is that we are elect 'in Him', or "in Christ" per Ephesians chapter one, which says the same over and over. The only other option that you have is that we are 'in Him' from the foundations of the world and already saved, which is what some do to solve that problem, but that's not Biblical, obviously. Read Ephesians 1, you'll see. Elect "in Him, elect "in Christ". It's called corporate election, and that I believe is Biblical. Believe and be saved, the Gospel message is in harmony with that. The message by some today, that is 'be saved and believe' is hostile to the Bible and the simple Gospel message. We receive the life, the Holy Spirit as a result of believing. That places us in Him, and Him in us.
This is how they, all OT believers, were reconciled to God.
Romans 3:25-26 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed (not reconciled), to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus (reconciled).
Nobody is reconciled until they are placed into Christ Jesus. No OT believer was placed into Christ until after the death, resurrection and ascension. No believer can become the Temple of the Holy Spirit (NT only) without blood to cleanse that Temple. We cannot be placed into Christ without that indwelling, which spiritually baptizes/places us into Christ. The Agent of that placing into, the Holy Spirit indwelling, the death and resurrection and ascension, all waited for each other and were all needed for believers to be reconciled.
Jesus is the Church, the One True Church. Everyone believes that the Church was birthed at Pentecost, but most never ask what that means? The first placed into Christ and saved , both practically and legally. That's how it was birthed.
This is what John prophesied about near the end of the OT, and that prophecy went all the way back to Ezekiel. The baptism/placing into with/by the Holy Spirit is what was given at Pentecost. It was owed to some, because they already trusted Jesus. Owed to others true OT believrs who had not yet heard the Gospel, they were predestined to hear and believe, and, as a result, be placed into Christ, reconciled. this is haw it happens.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
Dave
In my view Grace and the Holy Spirit are One, the Spirit of Grace Zech 12 10
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
No its the truth.
With His seed in Him
False, that occurred before the foundation of the world, they were chosen in Him then. This is in fact the Eternal Phase of our Salvation
The same way the NT saints were, by the death of Gods Son, God reconciled them He having Faith in His Sons Blood, meaning He trusted Christ and His finished work for their sins, before He actually came in time to officially settle their debt along with the NT Saints Thats what Rom 3:25 is saying,
OK Bright
I can see now why this thread is over 40 pages. Now I'm going to bow out of this discussion.
Dave