Calvinism is Gospel !

[rogerg]

Romans 10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

To confess the Lord Jesus and to truly believe in Him is not possible to do with a heart of a natural, unsaved, man. To be able to do so comes
only as a byproduct of salvation, not before.

The heart of an unsaved natural man:
[Jer 17:9 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

The heart of the saved:
[Eze 36:26 KJV]
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

[2Co 3:3 KJV] 3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

 

[Cameron143]

I'm not a robot.
Robots can't love.

Are you forced to love. Are you preprogrammed to love God?

Actually, you are given a new heart and the Spirit so you can love as God loves.

 

[Anchorite]

To confess the Lord Jesus and to truly believe in Him is not possible to do with a heart of a natural, unsaved, man. To be able to do so comes
only as a byproduct of salvation, not before.

The heart of an unsaved natural man:
[Jer 17:9 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

The heart of the saved:
[Eze 36:26 KJV]
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

[2Co 3:3 KJV] 3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

You, as a Calvinist, completely negate that verse.

You twist the clear meaning of it.

It does not say “thou art already saved”, it says “thou shalt be saved”.



Romans 10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[sawdust]

Jesus Christ is the Good News not someone's theology.

 

[dkontner]

Jesus Christ is the Good News not someone's theology.

Amen and God bless!

 

[Churchgoer]

There no need to argue and force the Calvin theology. But for a fun debate it is fine.

As long as one confess Jesus is Lord and savior, others can have minor differences, such as pre destinations or free choice.

Bible does mention both sides. I believe it is a mystery. Just like Jesus is one hundred percent man and one hundred percent God. God saved us before the foundation of the world, yet we also have responsibility to accept God, obey God. It is a mystery.

 

[Anchorite]

There no need to argue and force the Calvin theology. But for a fun debate it is fine.

As long as one confess Jesus is Lord and savior, others can have minor differences, such as pre destinations or free choice.

Bible does mention both sides. I believe it is a mystery. Just like Jesus is one hundred percent man and one hundred percent God. God saved us before the foundation of the world, yet we also have responsibility to accept God, obey God. It is a mystery.

Discussing different theologies is good, but there are ramifications from certain doctrines.

Hyper Calvinism has resulted in some advocates opposing evangelism and missionaries.

 

[Cameron143]

Discussing different theologies is good, but there are ramifications from certain doctrines.

Hyper Calvinism has resulted in some advocates opposing evangelism and missionaries.

Who here has advocated for opposing evangelism and missionaries?

 

[Genez]

Do Calvinists believe that no one can resist God's "irresistible" grace?
That no matter how depraved they are as a human, that no one can resist?

That when God throws down the net of His irresistible grace?
All in the net will end up believing?

........

 

[Anchorite]

Who here has advocated for opposing evangelism and missionaries?

I did not say anyone here. It is historical fact.

For example:

When Baptist minister William Carey—often called the "father of modern missions"—proposed forming a missionary society in 1792, he faced fierce resistance. According to historical records, a senior minister famously told Carey, "Young man, sit down! When God pleases to convert the heathen, he will do it without your aid or mine."

In 1820s America, a movement known as the Primitive (or "Anti-Mission") Baptists formally split from other denominations. They rejected missionary societies, Sunday schools, and theological seminaries, viewing them as man-made inventions that usurped God's sovereign power.

Led on the American frontier by figures like Daniel Parker, this movement fiercely resisted the formation of centralized missionary societies, Bible societies, and Sunday schools. Parker went on to formulate the "Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit" doctrine, which posited that all humans were genetically foreordained to either God's kingdom or Satan's, making missionary work completely futile.

Men like hyper Calvinists John Gill and John Brine emphasized strict logic over evangelism, arguing that offering salvation to non-elect individuals was contrary to the doctrines of grace. They favored a "passive" approach where the gospel was taught only to those who actively demonstrated spiritual hunger.

 

[TMS]

Actually, you are given a new heart and the Spirit so you can love as God loves.

Am I forced to accept that gift?

 

[Cameron143]

I did not say anyone here. It is historical fact.

For example:

When Baptist minister William Carey—often called the "father of modern missions"—proposed forming a missionary society in 1792, he faced fierce resistance. According to historical records, a senior minister famously told Carey, "Young man, sit down! When God pleases to convert the heathen, he will do it without your aid or mine."

In 1820s America, a movement known as the Primitive (or "Anti-Mission") Baptists formally split from other denominations. They rejected missionary societies, Sunday schools, and theological seminaries, viewing them as man-made inventions that usurped God's sovereign power.

Led on the American frontier by figures like Daniel Parker, this movement fiercely resisted the formation of centralized missionary societies, Bible societies, and Sunday schools. Parker went on to formulate the "Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit" doctrine, which posited that all humans were genetically foreordained to either God's kingdom or Satan's, making missionary work completely futile.

Men like hyper Calvinists John Gill and John Brine emphasized strict logic over evangelism, arguing that offering salvation to non-elect individuals was contrary to the doctrines of grace. They favored a "passive" approach where the gospel was taught only to those who actively demonstrated spiritual hunger.

So...a strawman on this site.

Do you have an opinion on telling people to say a sinner's prayer and accepting Jesus into your heart?

 

[TruthDefender]

Reformation Movement Theology:
The Church of God Reformation Movement emphasizes:

• Salvation in Christ alone
• Unity of all believers, transcending denominational boundaries
• Holiness and sanctification, including abstaining from tobacco, alcohol, and worldly pleasures such as dancing and theater Encyclopedia Britannica+1
• Jesus as the central focus, with allegiance to Him above any human organization jesusisthesubject.org+1
• The belief that all redeemed individuals are already part of the true church of God, making formal membership in other organizations unnecessary

• (including abstaining from tobacco, alcohol, and worldly pleasures such as dancing and theater)

This is not true. Yes, at the very first founding it was the view of the CoG RM, but as time passed, and the Church leaders became more sanctified through the spiritual belilefs of Scripture, they progressed to the Biblical truth of such as these listed above.

Tobacco actually does some damage, but drinking wine is said to be beneficial (drink a little wine for your frequent infirmities). Drunkenness is a sin, not drinking (Scriptural).

Hard to hold to a belief that dancing is a sin when Scripture is clear that David danced for God. As well, we have always had musical instruments in our Worship Serviced. We do not believe OR teach that partaking of alcohol OR tobacco is a sin in and of itself. Scripture teaches "do not a drunkard be." That is far different than having an alcoholic drink.

Well, I would say it depends on the type of dancing. Some dancing can get pretty saucy! Would you do this in front of God, or better yet, would you want to see your daughters dancing saucy dances? Lol

So don’t pretend that ALL dancing is acceptable!!

Wed believe that Holiness and Sanctification are based on spiritual truths and Scripture is refering to the heart of man which is where the Holy Spirit dwells within us. After all, Jesus taught it is NOT what goes into a mans mouth that defiles him, but what proceeds OUT of a mans mouth... because such come from the mans heart.

Regarding Theater. False as well. Every year CoGRM congregations put on Plays to celebrate the Birth of Jesus and Plays that celebrate His resurrection.

Yeah, ok, but I can’t see a church wasting time putting on plays. It’s supposed to be a time for worshipping God, not fun and games.

SUMMARY:

The Church of God Reformation Movement represents a faithful restorationist approach, prioritizing Christ-centered living, holiness, and unity among believers while maintaining a flexible organizational structure (each congregation is autonomas I have added to clarify our beliefs) to support global ministry.

Its historical roots, theological emphasis, and worldwide reach distinguish it as a unique Christian fellowship committed to living out the principles of the New Testament

That is a very basic description, but it is a beginning, I suppose.

The CoGRM welcomes ALL who profess to be believers in and followers of Jesus the Christ into their fellowship. We DO NOT "excommunicate" people. That is so very funny to state that we do. Our extending a hand of brotherly love and fellowship differs greatly with quite a few Denominational Churches and/or Nondenominaitonal Churches.

 

[Anchorite]

So...a strawman on this site.

Do you have an opinion on telling people to say a sinner's prayer and accepting Jesus into your heart?

It is not a strawman, it is historical reality. You don’t understand what a strawman is.

 

[Anchorite]

The Church of God (Restoration) is an apocalyptic, strict restorationist sect that cult experts, media investigations, and former members classify as a destructive mind-control cult. Founded in the 1980s by American evangelist Daniel (Danny) Wilburn Layne, the group operates congregations globally, including major hubs in Greenville, Ohio and Manitoba, Canada.

Former members and experts flag the organization for severe authoritarian control over its followers' personal autonomy, health, and family dynamics. Members believe that they are uniquely ordained by divine command to restore the early church from the Book of Acts. They teach that salvation is impossible outside of their specific group.

The leadership demands absolute, unquestioning obedience. The group enforces a rigid hierarchy, asserting that its top ministers hold apostolic authority.

I attended some local meetings of this sect, before I discovered it was a cult. One Sunday, I left without staying for the after service meal. Some guy drove up to my house and confronted me, demanding an explanation. I said I wasn’t hungry. He replied, “If you didn’t want the food, you should have stayed for the fellowship!”

I quit going to their services. When the pastor phoned me, I was polite and told him I would not be attending any more of their services. That was it. Leave quietly, with no uproar or explanation.

 

[Churchgoer]

The Church of God (Restoration) is an apocalyptic, strict restorationist sect that cult experts, media investigations, and former members classify as a destructive mind-control cult. Founded in the 1980s by American evangelist Daniel (Danny) Wilburn Layne, the group operates congregations globally, including major hubs in Greenville, Ohio and Manitoba, Canada.

Former members and experts flag the organization for severe authoritarian control over its followers' personal autonomy, health, and family dynamics. Members believe that they are uniquely ordained by divine command to restore the early church from the Book of Acts. They teach that salvation is impossible outside of their specific group.

The leadership demands absolute, unquestioning obedience. The group enforces a rigid hierarchy, asserting that its top ministers hold apostolic authority.

I attended some local meetings of this sect, before I discovered it was a cult. One Sunday, I left without staying for the after service meal. Some guy drove up to my house and confronted me, demanding an explanation. I said I wasn’t hungry. He replied, “If you didn’t want the food, you should have stayed for the fellowship!”

I quit going to their services. When the pastor phoned me, I was polite and told him I would not be attending any more of their services. That was it. Leave quietly, with no uproar or explanation.

Wow, that is absurd. Good to leave, even better to tell them the reason.

Leaders job is lead people to Christ, not to themselves, or even to each other.
Fellowship is good, but don't put people above God.

 

[Cameron143]

Am I forced to accept that gift?

How can someone refuse a new heart and spirit, and the indwelling Spirit? God gives these things sovereignly to those He saves. That's the new covenant promise...Ezekiel 36:26-27.

No one given these gifts hasn't been glad God was disposed to be merciful towards them.

 

[Cameron143]

It is not a strawman, it is historical reality. You don’t understand what a strawman is.

You're not referring to anyone on this site. Thus, your argument doesn't apply to anyone on the thread. There is no application of your argument here. Since you have admitted this is the case, by bringing it up, you misrepresent people's arguments here. That falls under the definition of a strawman argument.

You still haven't answered my question from earlier: is it possible to have salvation solely by grace and that conditions exist that the individual must do to be saved?

 

[2Christ]

I understand that you are trying to be helpful, but before we examine the words of Jesus and scripture as a whole, it is important to establish certain truths. So let's begin here:

Can salvation be both solely by grace and based upon conditions that must be fulfilled by the individual?

Everything, absolutely everything exists by the grace of God. Everything in heaven and earth belong to the father and the son, who was given all authority over it. we are but a speck of dust for God. (Isaiah 40:15)

so yes salvation and everything else is by the grace of God, our God who made us in His Image. but by grace alone NO, we have our part to play, a choice to be made, that is why Jesus said clearly, why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not to the things I say? (Luke 6:46)

 

[Genez]

How can someone refuse a new heart and spirit, and the indwelling Spirit?

That means? No one can refuse. No one.