Was Judas Iscariot saved, or was he not?

[Godsgood]

This is where the warning given by the Lord God applies: to discern the truth of God's word, one must not place ultimate trust in any human being.
I would like to emphasize that this applies only to God and His word. When it comes to knowing the truth of God and understanding His word, no human being should be trusted as the ultimate authority.
JEREMIAH 17:5
5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.

Even a person's own understanding of the Holy Scriptures is forbidden by the Lord to be relied upon.
PROVERBS 3:5
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

How can the truth regarding our question to God be revealed—namely, what was Judas's sin, and whether he was saved or not? To whom should we ask this question? The Lord has already given us the answer. We should ask Him alone, so that He Himself may reveal the truth contained in His word.


Rather than relying on other people or on our own understanding, we must seek the answer from God, for He alone can reveal the true meaning of His word.
JAMES 1:5-8
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

If we let the Lord Jesus Himself disclose the true sin of Judas, this is what He said.
MATTHEW 26:20-25
20 Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
21 And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
22 And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?
23 And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.
24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

If we read and understand what the Lord Jesus said, it is actually very simple. What do you think He intended to convey by His statement?
Especially what is stated in verse 23.
23 And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.
Those whom the Lord Jesus chose understood this, because they believed that the Lord often spoke in parables. That is why they continually asked Him questions.
MARK 4:34
34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

MARK 13:10
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

 

[lrs68]

I suggest you rethink that.

Since it's aligned with Scripture there's not much to consider unless you're planning to adding to Scripture.

 

[lrs68]

Doesn't change the fact that Saul "took" the king position or the people, desperate for a king, made Saul be a king.
The language gets tricky here....just like it always is in Samuel. Saul was only annointed to be a military hero....not a king. Either Saul or the people went way beyond his anointing. I'm thinking Saul.... but the people acquiesced....so they were just as culpable.

And the passage of Saul taking off his robes and dancing and singing with the prophets due to the Holy Spirit being upon him....is a contrasting story in the tale of what David was doing at the time.
The whole books of Samuel is interlaced and interdependent sydochyne after syndochyne. (Type of poetry often associated with lymerics)


David putting on robes....Saul taking them.off. big doings symbolically.
And the Holy Spirit driving Saul to do it all.

We don't read that Saul rebelled until after being anointed so there's nothing proclaiming he wasn't in good standing with God before he was king.

 

[Dino246]

Since it's aligned with Scripture there's not much to consider unless you're planning to adding to Scripture.

That’s an idiotic implication. I guess you are just another fool who would rather throw stones than spend a moment of effort to understand.

**shrug**

 

[lrs68]

That’s an idiotic implication. I guess you are just another fool who would rather throw stones than spend a moment of effort to understand.

**shrug**

The only thing to understand is what is written in the Bible not implying a meaning where nothing is specifically mentioned to meet your personal beliefs.

 

[Dino246]

The only thing to understand is what is written in the Bible not implying a meaning where nothing is specifically mentioned to meet your personal beliefs.

My views are rooted in Scripture. If my beliefs were merely personal, I wouldn't bother posting here.

 

[JohnDB]

We don't read that Saul rebelled until after being anointed so there's nothing proclaiming he wasn't in good standing with God before he was king.

What on earth are you talking about?

The witch at Endor, the hunting of David, the waiting to offer sacrifice, the keeping of the prime flocks and kings, and many other instances of Saul not doing as he was told. The list is long.....

But....
God put the Holy Spirit upon him to dance and prophesy.

 

[lrs68]

My views are rooted in Scripture. If my beliefs were merely personal, I wouldn't bother posting here.

Nowhere does Scripture claim when the Holy Spirit gave Judas power to do miracles he was unsaved and seems unscriptural to assume otherwise.

 

[lrs68]

What on earth are you talking about?

The witch at Endor, the hunting of David, the waiting to offer sacrifice, the keeping of the prime flocks and kings, and many other instances of Saul not doing as he was told. The list is long.....

But....
God put the Holy Spirit upon him to dance and prophesy.

How come I am discussing when Saul was in the field and Samuel found him to anoint him as king you are talking about something that happens many years later?

 

[pinebeach]

This is the verse:

Mark 6:7-13​

Jesus Sends Out the Twelve Apostles​

7 And he called the twelve and began to send them out two by two, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits. 8 He charged them to take nothing for their journey except a staff—no bread, no bag, no money in their belts— 9 but to wear sandals and not put on two tunics. 10 And he said to them, “Whenever you enter a house, stay there until you depart from there. 11 And if any place will not receive you and they will not listen to you, when you leave, shake off the dust that is on your feet as a testimony against them.” 12 So they went out and proclaimed that people should repent. 13 And they cast out many demons and anointed with oil many who were sick and healed them.

There is no reference to Judas being singled out as not doing what Jesus commanded them to do. I know you know this.

Right. And there is no record of what the other 11 did so does than mean they all went fishing and hoped Jesus did not catch on?

You need to understand that the things Jesus sent them out to do could only done in the power of the Holy Spirit. Judas died in his sin. Jesus Himself said He was lost. This should not even be up for discussion unless people think they can interpret scripture to suit their own beliefs rather than allow scripture to create truth between the ears.

 

[pinebeach]

I'm very familiar with the Tanakh but I said because the discussion is about the salvation of Judas that the Holy Spirit would not help him at that moment of doing miracles if he was already condemned.

There was no salvation for Judas. First off, salvation was not even a reality until Jesus rose from the dead so, I don't think you are familiar with what you claim. At all.

 

[lrs68]

There was no salvation for Judas. First off, salvation was not even a reality until Jesus rose from the dead so, I don't think you are familiar with what you claim. At all.

They were still saved under the Law at that point.

Clearly you have no idea what you are saying.

 

[Dino246]

Nowhere does Scripture claim when the Holy Spirit gave Judas power to do miracles he was unsaved and seems unscriptural to assume otherwise.

You are making an argument from silence. I could state with equal authority that “Nowhere does Scripture claim that Catholic popes have no authority over all Christians therefore it seems unscriptural to assume otherwise.”

Jesus told the disciples in John 14:17 that the Holy Spirit was WITH them but not yet IN them. It is reasonable to conclude (not assume) the same was true for all their ministries until Pentecost. That would include Judas’ ministry.

 

[pinebeach]

They were still saved under the Law at that point.

Clearly you have no idea what you are saying.

Would you point that out in the law? Clearly one day is like the next to you. What were the circumstances of having sins covered, sine they were not actually forgiven, under the law?

Got a heifer? Did Judas offer one at the temple or did he kill himself?

 

[Lamar]

Right. And there is no record of what the other 11 did so does than mean they all went fishing and hoped Jesus did not catch on?

This is a classic example of a lack of simple thinking skills.

There is a record of what all 12 of them did!

verse 13 - "And they cast out many demons and anointed with oil many who were sick and healed them."

Judas was among the 12 and the scriptures do not single him out as not doing the same as the rest of the apostles.

This is not an issue of a simple overlook, this is an example of you not thinking out your comments.

 

[pinebeach]

This is a classic example of a lack of simple thinking skills.

There is a record of what all 12 of them did!

verse 13 - "And they cast out many demons and anointed with oil many who were sick and healed them."

Judas was among the 12 and the scriptures do not single him out as not doing the same as the rest of the apostles.

This is not an issue of a simple overlook, this is an example of you not thinking out your comments.

Apparently you cannot respond to what you either do not believe or cannot understand without insulting people.

Jesus also states that some will come before Him believing they are saved and He will say 'I never knew you.'

Do you know Him or are you just about correcting or trying to correct all who do not defer to you?

You insult the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with your constant dripping and think to sound their better by mocking and creating false methods of observation and knowledge about those people. You remind me of the story of the 3 little pigs...at the final house, the one made of brick, the wolf huffed and puffed but could not blow that house down.

And yes, there is most definately a record of what Judas did. You know, the Bible actually states that God laughs at the wicked because He knows they will soon be destroyed. Was Judas a good man?

You huff and puff but cannot blow out the flame of the truth and it is your loss.

 

[Lamar]

And yes, there is most definately a record of what Judas did.

And was one of those things casting out demons and healing the sick?

 

[pinebeach]

And was one of those things casting out demons and healing the sick?

Why? Do you want me to connect you with someone?

 

[Lamar]

Why? Do you want me to connect you with someone?

You don't seem willing to just accept that Judas cast out demons and healed the sick.

Why?

Is it pride?

 

[pinebeach]

You don't seem willing to just accept that Judas cast out demons and healed the sick.

Why?

Is it pride?

You don't seem able to remain truthful if the truth reveals your error. Is it pride? Let's talk about Jesus. Do you suppose Jesus said to Judas 'well done thou good and faithful servant' or, did He say 'I never knew you' meaning the reality of Christ, who He is and who He is to the person?

Why do you constantly evade answering questions and then pretend you asked them? You are not to be believed when you accuse others of saying things they never said. Is it gaslighting?