1948 Not THE Fulfillment of Prophecy

[Thaddeus]

lol OK. No, I'm not interested in answering those questions because I wasn't involved in that discussion, nor do I want to be. So you trying to drag me into it after I made my mind known to you about it is just disingenuous and rude.

I don't think so. You ask me a question not related to the subject of the thread, after you have previously told me you will not answer questions not related to the subject of a thread.
If it is rude to follow your example, sobeit

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I don't think so. You ask me a question not related to the subject of the thread, after you have previously told me you will not answer questions not related to the subject of a thread.
If it is rude to follow your example, sobeit

You apologized for mistaking me with someone else and now you're playing this game?

 

[Thaddeus]

You apologized for mistaking me with someone else and now you're playing this game?

No, no game, you would only address questions regarding the thread in question

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I don't think so. You ask me a question not related to the subject of the thread, after you have previously told me you will not answer questions not related to the subject of a thread.
If it is rude to follow your example, sobeit

Rules and truth get "mixed" up here rather quickly. History means nothing, feelings and opinions are what many go by here. That's without even adding Scripture.

 

[Thaddeus]

You apologized for mistaking me with someone else and now you're playing this game?

Although you will make up excuses not to answer questions I would put to you:

Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.’ John6:32&33

Then Jesus declared, ‘I am the bread of life 35

But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live for ever. 50&51

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life/will live forever, and I will raise them up at the last day 54

6 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live for ever.’ 56-58

So what does Jesus mean by the true bread from Heaven, that anyone who eats/feeds on this bread will live forever/have eternal life? For the bread that came from Heaven is the bread we must feed on/feeding on Jesus flesh and blood?

Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life/will live forever and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John5:24

When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6 ‘Be careful,’ Jesus said to them. ‘Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.’

7 They discussed this among themselves and said, ‘It is because we didn’t bring any bread.’

You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread Matt16:5-8

But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.’ 12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees. 11&12

The true bread from Heaven, of which we must eat are the words/teaching of Christ for they lead to eternal life/we will live forever. So when Jesus spoke of bread, he was not literally referring to food we must eat, but his teaching

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Although you will make up excuses not to answer questions I would put to you:

Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.’ John6:32&33

Then Jesus declared, ‘I am the bread of life 35

But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live for ever. 50&51

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life/will live forever, and I will raise them up at the last day 54

6 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live for ever.’ 56-58

So what does Jesus mean by the true bread from Heaven, that anyone who eats/feeds on this bread will live forever/have eternal life? For the bread that came from Heaven is the bread we must feed on/feeding on Jesus flesh and blood?

Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life/will live forever and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John5:24

When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6 ‘Be careful,’ Jesus said to them. ‘Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.’

7 They discussed this among themselves and said, ‘It is because we didn’t bring any bread.’

You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread Matt16:5-8

But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.’ 12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees. 11&12

The true bread from Heaven, of which we must eat are the words/teaching of Christ for they lead to eternal life/we will live forever. So when Jesus spoke of bread, he was not literally referring to food we must eat, but his teaching

It doesn't state that blood is being used figuratively, so you had to use logic and reason to determine that from the context. You used your rational mind to determine that truth

 

[Thaddeus]

It doesn't state that blood is being used figuratively, so you had to use logic and reason to determine that from the context. You used your rational mind to determine that truth

I don't think so. When Jesus referred to yeast he was not referring to bread, but teaching.
Listening to his words is the true bread that gives eternal life
However, Im sure all can see, I addressed your question, but you can only refuse to address mine

 

[Churchgoer]

Jesus himself is also the bread and wine. Not just the teachings.
Praise to God. Christ in us.

Christianity is not about high morality, philosophy, cause, though those are good.

Christiananity is about true living God, with us !!!

 

[Thaddeus]

It doesn't state that blood is being used figuratively, so you had to use logic and reason to determine that from the context. You used your rational mind to determine that truth

I suppose you will have to make the excuse you won't answer the questions because I discussed it with someone else. However, Im sure you have previously discussed John6, but I would not say that is reason not to answer your question.


17 “But if, in seeking to be justified IN(IN) Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners/lawbreakers, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker. Gal2:15-18





Justification is instantaneous once someone accepts Christ as their saviour, The justification Paul is writing about clearly takes time to achieve. So what justification is Paul writing about?



Why does Paul ask the question: Doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin?



What does Paul mean when he states: If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.

 

[Musicmaster]

Since the NATION of Israel once rose from the ashes after the Babylonian exile, why can't it happen again?

What I was saying is that 1948 itself wasn't the fulfillment of any prophecy, but rather a staging of what is coming in the near future, not that it could not happen again. Israel right now occupies less than 2% of what was promised to Abraham. The full possession is yet to come.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

You express aspirations that I can agree with and share, but I notice that you use the word "replacing" in a positive theological context.
"Replacement Theology" is only a negative thing when we replace that which is of God with that which is of man.

Agreed. Replacement theology has the body of Christ replacing Israel, thus rejecting the rise of Israel once again in the near future.

The theological mix in the Australian population is different from America I am sure, but is contains many of the same ingredients.
There are Catholics with their "one true church" who not only believe that they have replaced physical Israel, but the kingdom of Jesus itself.

Yes, as sad as that is for those who blindly follow Rome and her many false doctrines.

On the other hand there are the Zionists who not only replace the fulfillments of Isaiah 66, Jeremiah 31, Ezekiel 36 and Isaiah 43 with 1948 Israel, but replace it with the Kingdom of Christ, making Jesus one and the same with the expected Messiah of rabbinic Judaism.

When Jesus returns and His Feet touch the ground, He will expressly and visibly be King over all, not in the rabbinic sense, but in the sense of King and God over all. The rabbinic system will not be as it was on ancient times with the High Priest Himself on this earth, ruling with an iron Fist and reigning over all. Amen.

I would be more inclined to offend your patriotism with the view that those prophesies have already been fulfilled, and that 1948 "Israel" is not a Christian cause at all.

No, it is not Christian, nor is it rooted in Christ Jesus as it should be. Modern Israel is only a political engine moreso than any fulfillment of any prophecy. Don't worry. I'm not offended.

Paul's teaching to the Hebrews contain more updated instructions than the ones you will find in the OT.
I think they are relevant today.

Paul did not write Hebrews.

Hebrews 13:14
For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

Yes, but Hebrews was not written by Paul nor was it written by any apostle.

MM

 

[Beekeeper]

Who is they?

Are you one of them?

 

[Beekeeper]

Unfortunately that "Jerusalem above" is more than 1000 years away. Before that, Lord Jesus shall return on Mount Olives and build his kingdom, with a headquarter in the current Jerusalem.

Fortunately the kingdom of heaven (Jerusalem above) is a present reality.
Part of it is in this world still.
Israel of God under king Jesus has expanded it's borders to include the whole world.
You are freely invited to be a citizen in it regardless of your genetics.
I hope to meet you there and continue this conversation when we can do so respectfully.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The rabbinic system will not be as it was on ancient times with the High Priest Himself on this earth, ruling with an iron Fist and reigning over all.

The rabbinic system will not exist at all

 

[Beekeeper]

Paul did not write Hebrews.

I could easily have got that wrong.
I have long assumed that but not checked.
Who wrote the book of Hebrews?

No, it is not Christian, nor is it rooted in Christ Jesus as it should be. Modern Israel is only a political engine moreso than any fulfillment of any prophecy. Don't worry. I'm not offended.

I am grateful to you for that.
There are some with less connection to the Middle East who get a bit upset with persons like myself

When Jesus returns and His Feet touch the ground, He will expressly and visibly be King over all, not in the rabbinic sense, but in the sense of King and God over all. The rabbinic system will not be as it was on ancient times with the High Priest Himself on this earth, ruling with an iron Fist and reigning over all. Amen.

I think that Jesus kingdom is with us now, but it can not be seen without faith.
When Jesus comes he will be fully equipped with the heavenly Jerusalem, so any effort to build a temple for Him will be done in vain.
All of us including myself will be in part corrected in our eschatology, just as it was last time He was here in the flesh.
The peace that is not possible by any means in National Israel will be (and already is) abundant in the Israel of God.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Are you one of them?

How do I know if I don't know who "they" are?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Replacement theology has the body of Christ replacing Israel, thus rejecting the rise of Israel once again in the near future.

Israel reaches its height and fullness in this age with the fullness of the nations being joined to it in Christ.

But if [Israel's] fall is wealth of the world, and their failure, wealth of nations, how much more their fullness? Romans 11:12​

​

Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee. The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD. All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory. Isaiah 60:5-7​

​

And his father [Jacob] refused, and said, I know, my son, I know. He [Manasseh] also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother [Ephraim] shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a fullness of nations. Genesis 48:19​

 

[dkontner]

How do I know if I don't know who "they" are?

1 Thessalonians 2​

14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

 

[Musicmaster]

I could easily have got that wrong.
I have long assumed that but not checked.
Who wrote the book of Hebrews?

Excellent question.

Hebrews 2:3-4
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Notice the third person position of the writing above. The ones who heard Him (Jesus) were the twelve, and with them being spoken of outside of their circle like this shows to us that, grammatically, it cannot be one of the twelve who wrote Hebrews.

Now, what about Paul?

Galatians 1:11-12
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

So, Paul's preaching was not anything he had heard for ANY man, which would include the twelve given that they were men, not Christ Jesus. Paul was instructed directly from Christ Jesus in Arabia, so he too could not have written Hebrews for he was not the apostle to Israel. That was assigned to the twelve, with Paul even saying that he would never build upon another man's foundations.

I've heard some speculations as to who the group was who likely write Hebrews, but that's not important when we consider that the writers wrote what was still inspired given that it all came from those who were inspired in teaching. That book is consistent with the rest of scripture in conveying the truths of Christ.

I am grateful to you for that.
There are some with less connection to the Middle East who get a bit upset with persons like myself



I think that Jesus kingdom is with us now, but it can not be seen without faith.
When Jesus comes he will be fully equipped with the heavenly Jerusalem, so any effort to build a temple for Him will be done in vain.
All of us including myself will be in part corrected in our eschatology, just as it was last time He was here in the flesh.
The peace that is not possible by any means in National Israel will be (and already is) abundant in the Israel of God.

Granted, we don't understand ever detail of what's coming, but we can know who will be where, and the body of Christ will not be on this earth during the 70th week of Jacob's Trouble. We will be in Heavenly places as scripture declares, because we are not reserved for wrath. The coming wrath is for unbelieving Israel, and two-thirds of our numbers are going to be wiped out by the point of Christ's return to this earth. So, I agree with you that there will be some corrections as things become reality, including things left outside the mists of our understanding, but we do have enough generalities to know the timeline of events given that the number of months is given expressly, thus not shrouded in apocalyptic language of allegory or ethereal verbiage.

Hope that helps.

MM

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

1 Thessalonians 2​

14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

So you're saying every Jew today should be held accountable for the sins of their forefathers? Even if they know nothing of Jesus.