what is Speaking in tongues

[Wansvic]

Romans 6:3-6 is not speaking of water baptism. You're reading that into the text. It's the Spirit baptism that saves, not water. The word baptism is an action, a verb, and water is not part of the definition. That's the error that many, like Catholics, make today. They read the word baptism, and assume water into it's definition because they were taught that way. It's a baptism by faith that places us into Christ. Literally, the baptism with the Holy Spirit is the placing into Jesus Christ with the indwelling Holy Spirit. Jesus is the baptizer, not a OT priest who is obsolete, and the Holy Spirit is the agent of that baptism, not water. We have the High Priest Himself, Jesus, living inside us. That spiritual union gives us everything we need, as we are complete in Him and lacking nothing. We only need Him to mediate for us. No more priesthood, no more Temples, no more OT types, we have the Reality.

Colossians 2:9-14, Galatians 3:26-27, and 1 Peter 3:21 are all speaking of the Spirit baptism. Except when Peter tells us that which saves us is not water baptism, or, not the removal of filth from the flesh. The whole chapter 3 in Galatians applies.



For by One Spirit, Capitol "S", the Holy Spirit, not water, we are placed into Jesus, the Body, the One True Church, and what we drink is spiritual.



They had already received the Holy Spirit before they were water baptized. I'm not saying for people to not get water baptized, it's an important public testimony, but it doesn't save anyone. What it points to saves people, the baptism by Jesus as a result of faith.



Again, the order in the original languages in that passage and the few others like it, water baptism can equally be translated as the result, which is in line with the rest of Scripture. It's the clear Gospel message to believe and be saved. Water baptism cannot save anyone. I can show you verses that say the same thing, but are absent water baptism, because it's the faith that saves. Believe and be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

The Jewish baptism (Mikveh), which John built on, taking the many baptisms of the Jewish tradition by Law (which acted as a ceremonial cleanser of sorts), and did point towards Jesus in a way that OT believers would understand, (they, lacking the clear revelation of the NT), and turned it into a single prophetic act which pointed towards Jesus focusing on a public declaration of repentance. Both Johns water baptism and the NT water baptism pointed to the same Jesus, it's just that one was more focused and clear after the New revelation was revealed. It's the same revelation in the NT as the OT, as Jesus testified to, it's just more clear. The NT water baptism does not replace John's water baptism, rather, builds on it making a more precise and clear picture of Jesus' death and resurrection specifically. No magic formula. Water baptism changes over history because it's main purpose was to point, not to save. That idea is obvious when we see John in Matthew contrast his water baptism with the one true baptism that saves, the baptism with/by the Holy Spirit. So, the distinction that John made was between water baptism and Spirit baptism, one by him, the other by Jesus, not another water baptism.

Remember, with the Holy Spirit in us we are in Christ, without the Holy Spirit in us we are not in Christ. What makes us in Christ? The indwelling Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9-11. Believe and we are saved Romans 10:9-11. By that indwelling we are placed into Christ 1 Corinthians 12:13-14. It's a baptism by the Holy Spirit that places us in Christ, not a baptism with water. 1 Peter 3:21.

Do you also know that Cornelius was already declared righteous in promise (The righteousness of God Romans 3:25-26, 10:4) because he already had a genuine OT faith, just like Abraham (Romans 4:3, Acts 10:2)? He was a genuine OT believer, just like Lydia (Acts 16:14), just like all the people in Acts. Like Acts 19, the disciples of John the Baptist who had never heard the Gospel, but still had a genuine OT faith and were declared righteous in promise because of that faith. All those and more were given to the Son by the Father because they were genuine OT believers and predestined to believe the Gospel and be conformed to Christlikeness (Romans 8:28-29). Others, who already heard the Gospel and believed were due the Promise of the Father, the Holy Spirit indwelling (John 7:38-39), and were given the right to be Sons of God, born again, which would be the result of that placing into Christ by faith with the indwelling Spirit (John 1:12-13). And like the 120 (Acts 1:4-5), those who already believed the Gospel before Christ ascended, were owed that promise because they believed. That was a unique point in time in history, with unique circumstances that can never be repeated. Trying to form doctrines for today based on that unique point in time and it's unique circumstances is something that one must be very careful with. There are no more OT believers who are due the Promise of the Father. The transition is over. Try to stay in the Epistles if you can. They apply for us today in a historic sense accurately.

All those OT promises were fulfilled with the indwelling, that which places us into Christ Jesus, making us one with Him. A spiritual immersion by faith. A spiritual placing into by faith. With that spiritual union with Christ Jesus, being made one with Him, we are placed into His death and resurrection, dying with Him and being raised up with Him, born again. We are also imputed with the righteousness of God, that which justifies us, Jesus' perfect obedience to the Law. And that perfect obedience to the Law made Him alone, Jesus, an acceptable sacrifice for our atonement. The Lamb of God without blemish.

It's "the" Holy Spirit indwelling that they were waiting for, the New Covenant, a fulfillment of God's promises all the back to Ezekiel, not water baptism.

John 14:16-20, 26. John 15:26. John 16:7-16.

Here's the whole thing with regards to Cornelius.

Acts 11:14-17 who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.' And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?"

I just spent a month arguing with Catholics on another forum about what really saves us, and how they believed that water baptism initiated Spirit baptism was wrong. Catholics and those of like theology are forever holding onto the types to give the false appearance that the buildings and hierarchy are needed in a process of justification. I burned out and left that forum having learned my lesson. Aside from derailing this guys thread, I'm really not in the mood to argue about this, as I think it's a fruitless endeavor.

Dave

The bottom line is both water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin, and receiving the Holy Ghost are essential elements of the New Testament rebirth that was instituted on the Day of Pentecost. Scripture confirms this. The sequence varies but both are required as evidenced by the detailed conversion accounts. (Acts 2:4, 33; 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

Upon obedience to water baptism believers are buried with Jesus into His death. And, receiving the Holy Ghost involves Him coming to dwell inside the believer.

Also, consider something important about Acts 11:14-17. Since God filled Cornelius and his household with the Holy Ghost when Peter began to speak, what did Peter mean by, "who was I to withstand God?" The only thing Peter did after they were filled was command they be water baptized in the name of Jesus. As such, he would have been withstanding God if he failed to give them the opportunity to obey the command in order for their sins to be remitted. (Luke 24:46-47, Acts 2:38, 22:16) Note verse 18: "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life."


As to many of your other points. You err in your understanding due to taking verses out of context.

 

[Wansvic]

I understood you the first time. It doesn't change my mind.

I posted it again because I thought you may not have read the comment regarding the connection between Acts 19 and the letter to the Ephesians.

 

[Roger316]

I posted it again because I thought you may not have read the comment regarding the connection between Acts 19 and the letter to the Ephesians.

I don't see a connection between Acts and Ephesians.

 

[Roger316]

I posted it again because I thought you may not have read the comment regarding the connection between Acts 19 and the letter to the Ephesians.

I’m not denying the connection between Acts and Ephesians. In fact, the disciples in Acts 19 *were* Ephesians, and Paul later wrote directly to that same community. But that’s precisely why the contrast matters. In Acts, Luke is documenting a unique, transitional moment in redemptive history as the gospel crosses covenant boundaries—Jerusalem, Samaria, Gentiles, and finally John’s disciples in Ephesus. Tongues appear in those moments as signs to the apostles that God was including new groups in the same Spirit. But when Paul later writes to the Ephesians themselves, he doesn’t tell them to expect tongues at conversion. Instead, he says they “were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise” **after believing**, with no mention of tongues as a required or expected sign. So acknowledging that the Acts 19 disciples were Ephesians actually strengthens the point: the epistle written to that very church treats the Spirit’s sealing as universal, but tongues as not.

 

[Wansvic]

I’m not denying the connection between Acts and Ephesians. In fact, the disciples in Acts 19 *were* Ephesians, and Paul later wrote directly to that same community. But that’s precisely why the contrast matters. In Acts, Luke is documenting a unique, transitional moment in redemptive history as the gospel crosses covenant boundaries—Jerusalem, Samaria, Gentiles, and finally John’s disciples in Ephesus. Tongues appear in those moments as signs to the apostles that God was including new groups in the same Spirit. But when Paul later writes to the Ephesians themselves, he doesn’t tell them to expect tongues at conversion. Instead, he says they “were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise” **after believing**, with no mention of tongues as a required or expected sign. So acknowledging that the Acts 19 disciples were Ephesians actually strengthens the point: the epistle written to that very church treats the Spirit’s sealing as universal, but tongues as not.

Paul actually reminded the Ephesians of their having been sealed with the Holy Ghost after they trusted in Jesus and believed "the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation" (Ephesians 1:13). The question is: How did Paul know they had received the Holy Ghost? And what word of truth was heard, that they believed and obeyed that resulted in their receiving the Holy Ghost?

That's where Acts 19:1-7, factors into the equation. It is there that Luke records that these same Ephesian believers were re-baptized in the name of Jesus, received the Holy Ghost, and spoke with tongues and prophesied. Thus, when Paul later reminded them that they had been sealed with the Holy Ghost, he was referring to an experience that had already been documented in Acts.

The absence of a reference to tongues in Ephesians does not prove tongues were absent from their experience any more than the absence of a reference to water baptism proves they were never baptized. Paul often refers to truths his readers already knew without repeating every detail of how those events occurred.

Therefore, the issue is not whether Ephesians teaches the sealing of the Spirit—it clearly does. The issue is whether Ephesians redefines or replaces the evidence associated with receiving the Spirit that is repeatedly recorded in Acts. The epistle never says it does. Instead, the historical record in Acts remains the clearest description of what occurred when these Ephesian believers received the Holy Ghost.

In fact, Ephesians and Acts complement one another. Acts records the experience; Ephesians explains its significance. Acts shows how they received the Holy Ghost; Ephesians reminds them that through that experience they were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

 

[Roger316]

Paul actually reminded the Ephesians of their having been sealed with the Holy Ghost after they trusted in Jesus and believed "the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation" (Ephesians 1:13). The question is: How did Paul know they had received the Holy Ghost? And what word of truth was heard, that they believed and obeyed that resulted in their receiving the Holy Ghost?

That's where Acts 19:1-7, factors into the equation. It is there that Luke records that these same Ephesian believers were re-baptized in the name of Jesus, received the Holy Ghost, and spoke with tongues and prophesied. Thus, when Paul later reminded them that they had been sealed with the Holy Ghost, he was referring to an experience that had already been documented in Acts.

The absence of a reference to tongues in Ephesians does not prove tongues were absent from their experience any more than the absence of a reference to water baptism proves they were never baptized. Paul often refers to truths his readers already knew without repeating every detail of how those events occurred.

Therefore, the issue is not whether Ephesians teaches the sealing of the Spirit—it clearly does. The issue is whether Ephesians redefines or replaces the evidence associated with receiving the Spirit that is repeatedly recorded in Acts. The epistle never says it does. Instead, the historical record in Acts remains the clearest description of what occurred when these Ephesian believers received the Holy Ghost.

In fact, Ephesians and Acts complement one another. Acts records the experience; Ephesians explains its significance. Acts shows how they received the Holy Ghost; Ephesians reminds them that through that experience they were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

Not only is there a complete absence of any reference to tongues in Paul’s letter to the Ephesians—a letter written to the very community whose conversion in Acts 19 involved tongues—but neither Jesus nor any of the apostles ever instruct the church to expect speaking in tongues as the normative sign of receiving the Holy Spirit. The descriptive accounts in Acts do not function as prescriptive commands. Moreover, it is worth asking whether speaking in tongues was ever intended to be a universal indicator of Spirit‑indwelling at all. The apostles may have been uniquely empowered to discern the Spirit’s arrival in certain transitional moments of redemptive history, and the ability to recognize tongues as a sign may have been a gift or authority granted to them alone, not a pattern intended for the ongoing life of the church.

• The Ephesians did speak in tongues in Acts 19.
• Paul writes them a long, rich, Spirit‑saturated letter.
• He never mentions tongues.
• He never tells them to expect tongues.
• He never uses tongues as evidence of Spirit‑indwelling.

Instead, he says:

“You were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise when you believed” (Eph 1:13).

No tongues. No external sign. Just faith and sealing.

If the miracle of tongues in Acts is understood as a miracle in the ear of the hearer—where the Spirit enables each listener to hear the speaker’s words in his own language—then the phenomenon is inherently tied to situations of linguistic diversity. This means that in settings where speaker and hearer already share a common language, such as Paul and the Greek‑speaking Ephesians, the gift of tongues would serve no functional purpose. The Spirit does not need to supernaturally translate what both parties already understand. This strongly suggests that tongues in Acts were not intended as a universal sign of Spirit‑reception, but rather as a situational sign used in multilingual contexts to authenticate the inclusion of new groups into the people of God. In a monolingual environment, the sign becomes unnecessary, and its absence is entirely consistent with the New Testament pattern.

The absence of evidence is not evidence.

 

[frederickdoc]

Many fail to understand what's actually happening when a person initially speaks in tongues. When the Holy Spirit of God enters a believer, it opens up a whole new world! The manifestation of speaking in tongues is the result of God's Spirit reviving man's spirit that was dead in sin due to Adam and Eve's actions in the garden.

A believer’s renewed spirit communicates directly with the Spirit of God. (1 Cor. 14:2), Acts 2:4 , 10:43-48, and 19:1-7, and Romans 8:26)


The following is a great writeup that addresses the various purposes for the manifestation of speaking in tongues:

So what happens when you pray in tongues after you have already received the Holy Ghost?

1. 𝐘𝐎𝐔 𝐀𝐑𝐄 𝐁𝐔𝐈𝐋𝐃𝐈𝐍𝐆 𝐘𝐎𝐔𝐑𝐒𝐄𝐋𝐅 𝐒𝐏𝐈𝐑𝐈𝐓𝐔𝐀𝐋𝐋𝐘

1 Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself.
The word edifieth means to build up, strengthen, and spiritually reinforce.
Just as your physical body needs nourishment to remain strong, your spirit also requires spiritual strengthening.

Praying in tongues builds your inner man.
It strengthens your faith.
It reinforces your spiritual sensitivity.
It deepens your awareness of God’s presence.

Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost.

Notice what scripture says. Praying in the Holy Ghost builds your faith.
And when joined with singing in the Spirit, that edification becomes both prayer and worship flowing together in beautiful fellowship with God.
This is one of the reasons born again believers should pray and sing in the Spirit regularly.
It is spiritual strengthening.
It is heaven’s way of fortifying your inner man.


2. 𝐈𝐓 𝐀𝐋𝐋𝐎𝐖𝐒 𝐘𝐎𝐔𝐑 𝐒𝐏𝐈𝐑𝐈𝐓 𝐓𝐎 𝐂𝐎𝐌𝐌𝐔𝐍𝐈𝐂𝐀𝐓𝐄 𝐃𝐈𝐑𝐄𝐂𝐓𝐋𝐘 𝐖𝐈𝐓𝐇 𝐆𝐎𝐃

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
This is profound. When you pray in tongues, you are not speaking to people.
You are speaking directly to God.
Your spirit is communicating with Him beyond the limitations of natural language.
There are burdens your natural mind cannot fully express.
There are places of intercession deeper than vocabulary can reach.
There are moments when your spirit knows what your mind cannot articulate.
That is why praying in tongues is so powerful.
It allows the Spirit within you to pray beyond the limitations of human understanding.
And when that same Spirit moves you into song, your worship rises beyond the limits of earthly expression.


3. 𝐈𝐓 𝐀𝐋𝐋𝐎𝐖𝐒 𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐒𝐏𝐈𝐑𝐈𝐓 𝐓𝐎 𝐏𝐑𝐀𝐘 𝐓𝐇𝐄 𝐏𝐄𝐑𝐅𝐄𝐂𝐓 𝐖𝐈𝐋𝐋 𝐎𝐅 𝐆𝐎𝐃

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought.
There are times when we simply do not know how to pray.
We do not know what to ask.
We do not know what is needed.
We do not know what God is accomplishing behind the scenes.
But the Spirit knows.

When you yield yourself in prayer, the Spirit intercedes through you according to God’s perfect knowledge and purpose.
This is one of the greatest blessings of praying in tongues.
You may not understand every word being spoken, but God understands perfectly.
And the Spirit is praying through you according to divine wisdom.


4. 𝐈𝐓 𝐊𝐄𝐄𝐏𝐒 𝐘𝐎𝐔 𝐒𝐏𝐈𝐑𝐈𝐓𝐔𝐀𝐋𝐋𝐘 𝐒𝐄𝐍𝐒𝐈𝐓𝐈𝐕𝐄
The world constantly pulls at your attention.
Life can cloud your spiritual awareness. Distractions can dull your sensitivity to the voice of God.
But praying in tongues sharpens your spirit. Singing in the Spirit lifts your heart into worship.
Together they quiet the noise of the flesh and tune your soul toward heaven.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
A believer who regularly prays and sings in the Spirit becomes increasingly sensitive to divine direction.
You begin to recognize His promptings more clearly.
You discern His voice more readily.
You become more aware of His peace, correction, and guidance.


5. 𝐈𝐓 𝐑𝐄𝐅𝐑𝐄𝐒𝐇𝐄𝐒 𝐀𝐍𝐃 𝐒𝐓𝐑𝐄𝐍𝐆𝐓𝐇𝐄𝐍𝐒 𝐘𝐎𝐔𝐑 𝐒𝐎𝐔𝐋

Isaiah prophesied of this.
Isaiah 28:11-12 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people… This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing.
There is spiritual refreshing in praying in tongues. And there is deep spiritual joy in singing in the Spirit.
When your soul is weary, when your heart is burdened, when your mind is overwhelmed, praying and singing in the Spirit bring divine refreshing.
It brings rest.
It brings renewal.
It brings peace.

So when should a born again believer pray and sing in the Spirit?
Daily.
Not as ritual.
Not as empty repetition.
But as ongoing fellowship with God.

Paul said:
1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all.
Paul understood its value. He practiced it regularly.
He recognized it as an essential part of spiritual life.

Pray in tongues when you worship.
Sing in the Spirit when praise rises within you.
Pray in tongues when you do not know what to pray.
Pray in tongues when you are burdened.
Pray in tongues when you need strength.
Sing in the Spirit when your soul needs refreshing.
Pray and sing in the Spirit when seeking direction.
Pray in tongues when interceding for others.
Pray in tongues when building yourself in faith.
Pray and sing in the Spirit simply because you desire communion with God.

This is not strange.
This is not emotionalism.
This is not unnecessary.
This is part of New Covenant life.
It is one of the beautiful privileges of having the Spirit of God dwelling within you.

𝐒𝐩𝐞𝐚𝐤𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐨𝐧𝐠𝐮𝐞𝐬 was never meant to be a forgotten moment in your salvation testimony.
It was given to become a living part of your daily walk with God.
It is the language of spiritual edification.
It is the language of communion.
It is the language of surrender.
It is the language of intercession.
It is the language of worship.
It is the language of spiritual strengthening.

When you pray and sing in the Spirit, you are yielding your tongue to the Spirit of God.
And when your tongue is yielded, your heart follows.
Your mind quiets.
Your spirit aligns.
Your faith is strengthened.
Your relationship with God deepens.

This is why praying and singing in the Spirit matter after the new birth. It is not merely proof that you received the Holy Ghost.
It is one of God’s greatest gifts to help you walk faithfully after receiving Him.

So pray in the Spirit.
Sing in the Spirit.
Build yourself up.
Strengthen your inner man.
Yield yourself fully to His presence.
And allow the Holy Ghost within you to continually shape, strengthen, refresh, and lead you as you walk in covenant with God.

The Initial sign of speaking in tongues and daily prayer language is NOT the same as the Gift of Speaking in tongues that Paul talked about in 1 Cor 12, and taught on in verse 14.
Tongues operate as a public gift in the congregation when accompanied by interpretation. See 1 Cor 12-14
This is different from the initial sign of receiving the Holy Ghost and different from private prayer.
This is a ministry operation for the edification of the church.


𝐅𝐎𝐑𝐁𝐈𝐃 𝐍𝐎𝐓 𝐒𝐏𝐄𝐀𝐊𝐈𝐍𝐆 𝐈𝐍 𝐓𝐎𝐍𝐆𝐔𝐄𝐒

1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
(excerpt: 𝐀𝐩𝐨𝐬𝐭𝐨𝐥𝐢𝐜 𝐃𝐨𝐜𝐭𝐫𝐢𝐧𝐞 𝐓𝐨𝐝𝐚𝐲)

I read most my eyes can handle ,looks good tho! but wow that alot to keep one reading Interest.
whats going on is mostly Not understanding the Baptisms water and then the Holy ghost
That is a blinding tactic
The baptism of John and not knowing the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that is related & fulfilling to the original circumcision contract actually both .
until then it just a scripture war .But I will admit the Holy Spirit has the upper hand in one who knows Him . Scripture is suppose to lead one to Jesus and be baptized By Jesus
start with the cleanse Johns baptism so the Holy Spirit can move into that clean spot in the heart that was circumcised cut out
maybe call it a tabernacle.
all I know that clean spot keeps growing. And if people just look to Jesus Glorified son man and realized who He Is and actually know what He did they would gladly be baptized using only Jesus name given to man that's probably the key to Know Jesus has All. Judgement heaven & Earth All!
To a true cleanse for the Holy Spirit to make his abode

 

[CS1]

im a bit confused on this

im a bit confused on this

read Acts chapter two, 1cor chapter 12 through 14. The word of God will show an tell you what it is.

 

[Wansvic]

Not only is there a complete absence of any reference to tongues in Paul’s letter to the Ephesians—a letter written to the very community whose conversion in Acts 19 involved tongues—but neither Jesus nor any of the apostles ever instruct the church to expect speaking in tongues as the normative sign of receiving the Holy Spirit. The descriptive accounts in Acts do not function as prescriptive commands. Moreover, it is worth asking whether speaking in tongues was ever intended to be a universal indicator of Spirit‑indwelling at all. The apostles may have been uniquely empowered to discern the Spirit’s arrival in certain transitional moments of redemptive history, and the ability to recognize tongues as a sign may have been a gift or authority granted to them alone, not a pattern intended for the ongoing life of the church.

• The Ephesians did speak in tongues in Acts 19.
• Paul writes them a long, rich, Spirit‑saturated letter.
• He never mentions tongues.
• He never tells them to expect tongues.
• He never uses tongues as evidence of Spirit‑indwelling.

Instead, he says:


No tongues. No external sign. Just faith and sealing.

If the miracle of tongues in Acts is understood as a miracle in the ear of the hearer—where the Spirit enables each listener to hear the speaker’s words in his own language—then the phenomenon is inherently tied to situations of linguistic diversity. This means that in settings where speaker and hearer already share a common language, such as Paul and the Greek‑speaking Ephesians, the gift of tongues would serve no functional purpose. The Spirit does not need to supernaturally translate what both parties already understand. This strongly suggests that tongues in Acts were not intended as a universal sign of Spirit‑reception, but rather as a situational sign used in multilingual contexts to authenticate the inclusion of new groups into the people of God. In a monolingual environment, the sign becomes unnecessary, and its absence is entirely consistent with the New Testament pattern.

The absence of evidence is not evidence.

Jesus said the Heavenly Father will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask. How does a believer know whether they must ask for the Spirit if no evidence accompanies the experience? Luke 11:13

 

[Wansvic]

Not only is there a complete absence of any reference to tongues in Paul’s letter to the Ephesians—a letter written to the very community whose conversion in Acts 19 involved tongues—but neither Jesus nor any of the apostles ever instruct the church to expect speaking in tongues as the normative sign of receiving the Holy Spirit. The descriptive accounts in Acts do not function as prescriptive commands. Moreover, it is worth asking whether speaking in tongues was ever intended to be a universal indicator of Spirit‑indwelling at all. The apostles may have been uniquely empowered to discern the Spirit’s arrival in certain transitional moments of redemptive history, and the ability to recognize tongues as a sign may have been a gift or authority granted to them alone, not a pattern intended for the ongoing life of the church.

• The Ephesians did speak in tongues in Acts 19.
• Paul writes them a long, rich, Spirit‑saturated letter.
• He never mentions tongues.
• He never tells them to expect tongues.
• He never uses tongues as evidence of Spirit‑indwelling.

Instead, he says:


No tongues. No external sign. Just faith and sealing.

If the miracle of tongues in Acts is understood as a miracle in the ear of the hearer—where the Spirit enables each listener to hear the speaker’s words in his own language—then the phenomenon is inherently tied to situations of linguistic diversity. This means that in settings where speaker and hearer already share a common language, such as Paul and the Greek‑speaking Ephesians, the gift of tongues would serve no functional purpose. The Spirit does not need to supernaturally translate what both parties already understand. This strongly suggests that tongues in Acts were not intended as a universal sign of Spirit‑reception, but rather as a situational sign used in multilingual contexts to authenticate the inclusion of new groups into the people of God. In a monolingual environment, the sign becomes unnecessary, and its absence is entirely consistent with the New Testament pattern.

The absence of evidence is not evidence.

The biblical record establishes the fact that believers will speak in tongues when they receive the Holy Ghost inside their bodies:​

"When isolating the Bible alone without denominational bias, the "two or three witnesses" principle (Deuteronomy 19:15; 2 Corinthians 13:1) serves as a strict structural rule. In Scripture, a normative experience (a standard pattern) cannot be built on a single, isolated verse or a unique, one-time occurrence. Instead, it must be established by multiple Biblical writers or sequential historical events confirming the exact same phenomenon.​

The Bible uses this principle in two distinct ways to define what is normative when being filled with the Holy Ghost: through The Witness of Multiple Historical Accounts and The Witness of Sensory Confirmation.​

​

---

​

1. The Witness of Multiple Historical Accounts (Textual Norm)​

According to biblical hermeneutics—interpreted strictly by the text—one instance of an event does not make it a mandatory pattern for all believers. To establish a "normative" standard, the Bible provides multiple distinct historical "witnesses" (events) in the Book of Acts that demonstrate a repeating pattern of how the infilling occurs.​

The Bible presents three distinct, major historical witnesses where groups of people were initially filled with the Holy Ghost, showing identical observable characteristics:​

• Witness 1: The Original Outpouring (Acts 2:4) – The disciples in Jerusalem are filled, and the immediate result is they "began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance".
• Witness 2: The Gentile Outpouring (Acts 10:44-46) – Years later, at Cornelius’s house, the Holy Ghost falls on a completely different demographic. The text explicitly notes that the Jewish onlookers knew they received the Holy Ghost because "they heard them speak with tongues".
• Witness 3: The Ephesian Outpouring (Acts 19:6) – Decades after Pentecost, Paul lays hands on disciples in Ephesus. The text records that "the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied".

The Scriptural Logic: Because the Bible provides three distinct historical witnesses across different times, geographic locations, and ethnic groups, the combination of these events moves the experience from an isolated anomaly to an established biblical norm.​

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2. The Witness of Sensory Confirmation (Experiential Norm)​

The law of witnesses requires external testimony—something that can be cross-examined by independent observers. When establishing the truth of an invisible spiritual event (the Holy Ghost entering a person), the Bible does not rely on the subjective testimony of the recipient alone. It requires the concurrent witness of sight and hearing by outside observers.​

In the Bible, when a person was initially filled, onlookers were always able to act as eyewitnesses to the physical evidence:​

• The Witness of Hearing: In Acts 2:6, the multitude came together because "every man heard them speak in his own language." In Acts 10:46, the evidence was absolute because the onlookers "heard them speak with tongues."
• The Witness of Sight: In Acts 2:33, Peter explains the spiritual event to the crowd by anchoring it to physical observations: "He [Jesus] hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear."

According to the biblical framework, a normative experience requires the internal work of the Spirit to be verified by external, sensory witnesses so that "every word may be established" without doubt or speculation.​

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Summary of the Biblical Standard

If you use only the text of the Bible to discover what is normative, the 2-3 witnesses principle dictates that:​

1. A standard pattern cannot be built on a single narrative; it requires a cloud of multiple historical occurrences (Acts 2, Acts 10, Acts 19).
2. An invisible spiritual experience must be corroborated by a secondary, external witness (audible/visible signs) so that the reality of the infilling is legally and spiritually "established" to those observing it."

So, I ask, as Paul did, Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?

 

[Roger316]

Jesus said the Heavenly Father will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask. How does a believer know whether they must ask for the Spirit if no evidence accompanies the experience? Luke 11:13

God gives the spirit to those whom he is saving without exception. That individual becomes a child of God. The children of God will notice a change of attitude in degrees as the Holy Spirit works on the heart. The child of God loves God, loves his neighbor, loves his brother, seeks first the kingdom of God, forgives others, values moral goodness, and loves the truth. The child of God is honest, contrite, faithful, truthful, humble, strong in character, hopeful, and productive. The child of God will know he or she has been filled with the Spirit if these things are present and increasing. The New Testament consistently grounds the evidence of the Spirit not in experiences but in enduring dispositions and loyalties.

If you want to know whether the Holy Spirit is with me, don’t look for an ecstatic moment. Follow me around and watch what I consistently say, choose, love, and do. The Spirit leaves a trail.”

 

[Roger316]

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So, I ask, as Paul did, Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?

Your multiple‑witness argument doesn’t apply here because Scripture gives us one authoritative witness on this question: the Holy Spirit speaking through the Word. And that witness never teaches that tongues accompany the indwelling of the Spirit for all believers.

Jesus never taught it. The apostles never taught it. Paul explicitly denies that all speak in tongues. And no epistle instructs believers to expect tongues as evidence of the Spirit.

So the only reliable witness we have—the Spirit speaking in Scripture—does not make tongues the sign of indwelling.

As for your question: yes, I have been blessed with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And so has every child of God. The Spirit is given to all who belong to Christ, not as an ecstatic experience but as a new life, new desires, and new loyalties.

If you want to know whether the Spirit is present, look for the fruit of the Spirit, the love of the brothers, the confession of Christ as Lord, and the perseverance of faith—the very things Scripture itself points to.

 

[Wansvic]

God gives the spirit to those whom he is saving without exception. That individual becomes a child of God. The children of God will notice a change of attitude in degrees as the Holy Spirit works on the heart. The child of God loves God, loves his neighbor, loves his brother, seeks first the kingdom of God, forgives others, values moral goodness, and loves the truth. The child of God is honest, contrite, faithful, truthful, humble, strong in character, hopeful, and productive. The child of God will know he or she has been filled with the Spirit if these things are present and increasing. The New Testament consistently grounds the evidence of the Spirit not in experiences but in enduring dispositions and loyalties.

If you want to know whether the Holy Spirit is with me, don’t look for an ecstatic moment. Follow me around and watch what I consistently say, choose, love, and do. The Spirit leaves a trail.”

Again, you miss the point. Or, it may be you just don't want to accept what scripture reveals.

If there is no accompanying evidence of the experience a person has no idea whether they need to ask for the Holy Ghost or not.

Jesus didn't say believe and God will give you the Holy Ghost. He said, "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:13

Samaritans knew they had not received the Holy Ghost when they believed. (Acts 8:12-18)

Paul knew individuals would know at what point they had received the Holy Ghost. "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?" Acts 19:1-7

You've been shown these scriptures over and over. My prayer is that you would be humble and seek God about it.

 

[Roger316]

Again, you miss the point. Or, it may be you just don't want to accept what scripture reveals.

If there is no accompanying evidence of the experience a person has no idea whether they need to ask for the Holy Ghost or not.

A person doesn't need to ask for the Holy Spirit. That is the point you seem to miss.

 

[TMS]

If the miracle of tongues in Acts is understood as a miracle in the ear of the hearer—where the Spirit enables each listener to hear the speaker’s words in his own language—then the phenomenon is inherently tied to situations of linguistic diversity. This means that in settings where speaker and hearer already share a common language, such as Paul and the Greek‑speaking Ephesians, the gift of tongues would serve no functional purpose

Agree

 

[TMS]

Again, you miss the point. Or, it may be you just don't want to accept what scripture reveals.

If there is no accompanying evidence of the experience a person has no idea whether they need to ask for the Holy Ghost or not.

Jesus didn't say believe and God will give you the Holy Ghost. He said, "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:13

Samaritans knew they had not received the Holy Ghost when they believed. (Acts 8:12-18)

Paul knew individuals would know at what point they had received the Holy Ghost. "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?" Acts 19:1-7

You've been shown these scriptures over and over. My prayer is that you would be humble and seek God about it.

What about Jacob
This illustration in scripture has a deep meaning..

The time of Jacob's trouble. Gen 32:7, 24-30. Read it.
Jer 30:5-6
5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. 6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

Then look at Daniel 12:1.

It is talking about the final days the last time of trouble.
In the midst of the darkest hour, when the saints are surrounded by their enemies, God will utter His voice from His holy habitation, delivering His people and turning their captivity. Joel 3:16

Jacob wrestled with God because he wanted the assurance of God's blessing and presence.

Don't be certain because those that are certain of God's salvation will often be the ones that are in need.

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Don't trust your feelings and emotions.

The devil can do signs too.

 

[Lamar]

Jesus didn't say believe and God will give you the Holy Ghost.

Then Peter said unto them, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Wansvic]

A person doesn't need to ask for the Holy Spirit. That is the point you seem to miss.

So Jesus was lying?

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" Luke 11:13

 

[Lamar]

So Jesus was lying?

Come on man, stop with the hype.

Luke 11:13 is of course true but it is stated as an adage not a set in stone and all encompassing axiom.

 

[Wansvic]

What about Jacob
This illustration in scripture has a deep meaning..

The time of Jacob's trouble. Gen 32:7, 24-30. Read it.
Jer 30:5-6
5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. 6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

Then look at Daniel 12:1.

It is talking about the final days the last time of trouble.
In the midst of the darkest hour, when the saints are surrounded by their enemies, God will utter His voice from His holy habitation, delivering His people and turning their captivity. Joel 3:16

Jacob wrestled with God because he wanted the assurance of God's blessing and presence.

Don't be certain because those that are certain of God's salvation will often be the ones that are in need.

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Don't trust your feelings and emotions.

The devil can do signs too.

Accepting what is revealed in God's Word has nothing to do with feelings or emotions. Faith does not begin with what we feel; it begins with what God has spoken. As Scripture says, "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Rom. 10:17).

Throughout Scripture, God's promises are received by those who believe and obey His Word. The promise of the Holy Ghost is no different. A person first believes God's promise, responds in obedient faith, and seeks what God has promised. This is consistent with Hebrews 5:9, which says of Christ, "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him."

Only after believing and obeying God's Word does what was once hoped for become a reality. This truth is revealed in Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Faith precedes the experience; the experience confirms the promise.

What begins as confidence in God's promise becomes a tangible reality when He fulfills His Word.