Jesus's Genealogy

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Mikhaele

Mikhaele

Banned
#1
Oct 14, 2011
36
0
0
#1
Why do Luke and Matthew give different accounts of Jesus's lineage?
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#2
#2
Mikhaele said:
Why do Luke and Matthew give different accounts of Jesus's lineage?
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Mainly due to their audience. Matthew was written to Jews and as such Abraham and other notable hebrew figures were listed as they came up in the lineage and more importantly it goes back to Abraham whom the Jews claimed as the father of their people. Luke was written to Greeks and they did not care about jewish genealogies as much and so Luke goes back to Adam to show that he was fully human as well as the Son of God.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#3
#3
Mikhaele said:
Why do Luke and Matthew give different accounts of Jesus's lineage?
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Luke traces Mary's Mother of Jesus genealogy. Joseph is the son-in-law of Heli

Matthew traces Joseph's Jesus adopted fathers genealogy.

that is why it says as was supposed the son of Joseph.

Luke 3
23And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,


you will notice the difference stems from which son of David did Christ descend from? Solomon or Nathan?
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#4
#4
AnandaHya said:
Luke traces Mary's Mother of Jesus genealogy. Joseph is the son-in-law of Heli

Matthew traces Joseph's Jesus adopted fathers genealogy.

that is why it says as was supposed the son of Joseph.

Luke 3
23And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,


you will notice the difference stems from which son of David did Christ descend from? Solomon or Nathan?
Click to expand...

That is right, both Mary and Joseph were from David.
 
Mikhaele

Mikhaele

Banned
#5
Oct 14, 2011
36
0
0
#5
CanadaNZ said:
Mainly due to their audience. Matthew was written to Jews and as such Abraham and other notable hebrew figures were listed as they came up in the lineage and more importantly it goes back to Abraham whom the Jews claimed as the father of their people. Luke was written to Greeks and they did not care about jewish genealogies as much and so Luke goes back to Adam to show that he was fully human as well as the Son of God.
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That makes no sense: if someone has descendants, it doesn't change under any circumstances.

AnandaHya said:
Luke traces Mary's Mother of Jesus genealogy. Joseph is the son-in-law of Heli

Matthew traces Joseph's Jesus adopted fathers genealogy.

that is why it says as was supposed the son of Joseph.

Luke 3
23And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,


you will notice the difference stems from which son of David did Christ descend from? Solomon or Nathan?
Click to expand...
Laodicea said:
That is right, both Mary and Joseph were from David.
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Neither genealogy goes back to Miriam; both of them say they go to Jesus.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#6
#6
Mikhaele said:
That makes no sense: if someone has descendants, it doesn't change under any circumstances.





Neither genealogy goes back to Miriam; both of them say they go to Jesus.
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What has Miriam got to do with it? If you are referring to Moses sister then it wouldn't cause Miriam comes the tribe of Levi while David comes from Judah
 
Mikhaele

Mikhaele

Banned
#7
Oct 14, 2011
36
0
0
#7
Laodicea said:
What has Miriam got to do with it? If you are referring to Moses sister then it wouldn't cause Miriam comes the tribe of Levi while David comes from Judah
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i.e.: "Mary"
 
P

prophecyman

Guest
#8
#8
Miriam would be the correct rendering, the name 'Mary' is the Latin/Anglo traslation of the Hebrew.
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#9
#9
Mikhaele said:
That makes no sense: if someone has descendants, it doesn't change under any circumstances.





Neither genealogy goes back to Miriam; both of them say they go to Jesus.
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It doesn't change, just traced differently one through Joseph and the other through Mary, another reason would be that jewish culture was patriarchal to the extreme and so based from the "father" and luke didn't have that concern so he was able to use mary's genealogy directly
 
K

keshka

Guest
#10
#10
If you have a problem with the family trees, just ignore it... after all, that's what these guys recommended!

Titus 3.9: "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."

1 Timothy 1.4: "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do."
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#11
#11
keshka said:
If you have a problem with the family trees, just ignore it... after all, that's what these guys recommended!

Titus 3.9: "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."

1 Timothy 1.4: "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do."
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Well technically these are talking about people claiming they are from certain family lines in the church, particularly Jewish as opposed to Gentile, but I agree with your point except to point out the importance of two names in the genealogies Jesus and David. It was important to establish Jesus was of the line of David as if he wasn't he couldn't be the messiah.
 
K

keshka

Guest
#12
#12
CanadaNZ said:
Well technically these are talking about people claiming they are from certain family lines in the church, particularly Jewish as opposed to Gentile, but I agree with your point except to point out the importance of two names in the genealogies Jesus and David. It was important to establish Jesus was of the line of David as if he wasn't he couldn't be the messiah.
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I see your point, but really how could Jesus NOT be the Messiah, considering all the miracles he performed? For me, the fact that he's a descendant from David is only the clincher, not the main event. He came back to life, shared out the bread and fishes, walked on water, espoused God's word etc. etc. Even it it turned out he wasn't related to David, I'd still be convinced!
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#13
#13
keshka said:
I see your point, but really how could Jesus NOT be the Messiah, considering all the miracles he performed? For me, the fact that he's a descendant from David is only the clincher, not the main event. He came back to life, shared out the bread and fishes, walked on water, espoused God's word etc. etc. Even it it turned out he wasn't related to David, I'd still be convinced!
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If he wasn't related to David he would not fulfill the prophecies concerning the messiahs coming, which if that were the case he would not have been the messiah, you can't ignore the old testament in favour of the new testament.
 
T

truthseeker

Banned
#14
Oct 10, 2011
62
0
0
#14
CanadaNZ said:
Mainly due to their audience. Matthew was written to Jews and as such Abraham and other notable hebrew figures were listed as they came up in the lineage and more importantly it goes back to Abraham whom the Jews claimed as the father of their people. Luke was written to Greeks and they did not care about jewish genealogies as much and so Luke goes back to Adam to show that he was fully human as well as the Son of God.
Click to expand...

This is not an explanation. Saying that the genealogies would differ based on the audience is to fail to understand what a genealogy is. They differ because it was two different writers and they both wrote what they thought was accurate, one or both of them was incorrect. The other possibility is they differ because of series of copying errors made before the earliest existing copies of the texts.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#15
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#15
AnandaHya said:
Luke traces Mary's Mother of Jesus genealogy. Joseph is the son-in-law of Heli

Matthew traces Joseph's Jesus adopted fathers genealogy.

that is why it says as was supposed the son of Joseph.

Luke 3
23And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,


you will notice the difference stems from which son of David did Christ descend from? Solomon or Nathan?
Click to expand...
very good ana.
and so it is.

that difference between nathan and solomon will prove to be very important indeed.
zone.
 
C

CanadaNZ

Guest
#16
#16
truthseeker said:
This is not an explanation. Saying that the genealogies would differ based on the audience is to fail to understand what a genealogy is. They differ because it was two different writers and they both wrote what they thought was accurate, one or both of them was incorrect. The other possibility is they differ because of series of copying errors made before the earliest existing copies of the texts.
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If you understood the audiences in question yes it is an answer. Patriarchal Jewish audience is going to want to see what his connection is not only to Abraham (to prove he was a jew), but his earthly father (as the male line is the important one in their eyes) and of course David due to messianic prophecy. Luke on the other hand has a greek audience who doesn't care about his Jewish roots, so he is able to go through the genealogy of Mary the virgin mother of Jesus. It would probably also benefit you to read through the entire thread as we already touched on the why the audience mattered.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#17
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#17
CanadaNZ said:
If you understood the audiences in question yes it is an answer. Patriarchal Jewish audience is going to want to see what his connection is not only to Abraham (to prove he was a jew), but his earthly father (as the male line is the important one in their eyes) and of course David due to messianic prophecy. Luke on the other hand has a greek audience who doesn't care about his Jewish roots, so he is able to go through the genealogy of Mary the virgin mother of Jesus. It would probably also benefit you to read through the entire thread as we already touched on the why the audience mattered.
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greetings fellow canuck:)
perhaps its less a matter of the audience, and is more about recording that Jesus is fully entitled under The Law through both his adoptive father Joseph's line (also through David the king line though through Solomon), and through Mary (via David via Nathan), Mary being of both the Aaronic priest line (maternally) AND king line of Judah (through her father Heli): making Jesus:

KING
PRIEST
Son of Man
and Son of GOD.

zone.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#18
#18
i heard that the greek word luke uses can refer to things other than a direct father-son relationship...so matthew is giving the direct line of patrilineal descent while luke's genealogy is at liberty to 'detour' through non patrilineal lines such as jesus' ancestry on mary's side

there is actually a possible reference in the jerusalem talmud to a 'miriam daughter of heli'...though this reading is based on a questionable assumption that 'heli' is the meaning of the strange play on words that actually appears in the text of the talmud...and also like many alleged references to new testament people in the talmud it may actually refer to a completely different person who has nothing to do with the mary of the bible
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#19
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#19
RachelBibleStudent said:
i heard that the greek word luke uses can refer to things other than a direct father-son relationship...so matthew is giving the direct line of patrilineal descent while luke's genealogy is at liberty to 'detour' through non patrilineal lines such as jesus' ancestry on mary's side

there is actually a possible reference in the jerusalem talmud to a 'miriam daughter of heli'...though this reading is based on a questionable assumption that 'heli' is the meaning of the strange play on words that actually appears in the text of the talmud...and also like many alleged references to new testament people in the talmud it may actually refer to a completely different person who has nothing to do with the mary of the bible
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interesting.
i don't consider the Talmud a valid source of truth for Christians, particularly concerning Jesus.

Luke is not about father-son. Luke is about Jesus' humanity through the virgin, Mary (Aaronic and Judahite parents - King & Priest)

matthew is not giving patrilineal descent except recording the legitimacy to the throne of David by adoption through joseph, meaning both genalogies forever close the possiblity of anyone by Jesus being messiah, king, and priest.

Jesus is the Son of God. He only has One Father.

the jews are expecting their messiah to come through solomon. not nathan. even though the throne was forever given to Christ after being taken from earthly kings after solomon.
 
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S

shroom2

Banned
#20
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#20
The word "husband" in Matt 1:16 can also be translated "man". In this verse it means "father". Mary's father was also named Joseph. Count out the generations. If the Joseph in v16 is Mary's husband, there are only 13 generations from babylon to Jesus. Matthew is the genealogy through Mary, Luke is the genealogy through Joseph, Jesus' "supposed" father. Further, Matthew tells the story of Jesus as King, so it makes sense the genealogy in Matthew would be through David and Solomon. Luke portrays Christ as a man, so the genealogy in Luke it through his "supposed" father Joseph all the way back to Adam.
 
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