Was Judas Iscariot saved, or was he not?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
False. It's impossible for OSAS believers to answer anything other than Judas Iscariot saved by faith alone in Christ, without any judgment of justification or condemnation by works.

Judas was a chosen apostle, and so he had to believe in Christ.

Nothing is impossible with OSAS.
Election does not work that way.

Regardless of what you believe or think you believe, your fate is bound by election. Your personal thoughts and actions are moot.

According to election you must be saved before you believe, you cannot believe to be saved.

Chosen by election first then God gives you faith, not the other way around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HeIsHere
Classic OSAS, and completely OSAS saved by faith alone without any judgment of works: Devils and sons of perditions can enter into the kingdom, so long as they believe like me in Christ!

Jas 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

You see. James says it right there, that devils also do well to believe and are saved with trembling!

And so, no doubt Judas also trembled by hanging himself into glory. Hitler too.

All sinners, transgressors, traitors, devils, sons of perdition, et all are unconditionally OSAS saved!, and entering into the glory of the Lord by also believing in the one God and Christ...

How much more so for me with my own littler transgressions from time to time!
Judas or Hitler cannot believe themselves into salvation.

According to election that would be a human work.
 
Election does not work that way.

Regardless of what you believe or think you believe, your fate is bound by election. Your personal thoughts and actions are moot.

According to election you must be saved before you believe, you cannot believe to be saved.

Chosen by election first then God gives you faith, not the other way around.
That’s not a biblically sound position.
 
You pile arrogance on top of your ignorance.


That’s completely ridiculous.


I didn’t.


Perhaps in your family, adults still breastfeed?

I didn’t.
How certain are you that the NIV Scripture you are reading is the version that comes from God?


Perhaps in your family, adults still breastfeed?
Instead of sharing the truth, you are just being philosophical.

And you even like dragging others into it.
Maybe none of your family has ever been dragged into anything, which is why you don’t care about dragging my family into it.

However, it seems like the only categories you know for people are children and adults. If someone is not a child, then they are automatically an adult.
And yet you’re becoming arrogant about what you know
 
Judas was a chosen apostle of Jesus, until he chose to be a traitorous son of perdition.

Jhn 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


Although, he may indeed have believed he was hanging himself into glory by his faith alone in Christ.
Yes, Judas is a chosen apostle. No doubt.
 
I didn’t.
How certain are you that the NIV Scripture you are reading is the version that comes from God?


Perhaps in your family, adults still breastfeed?
Instead of sharing the truth, you are just being philosophical.

And you even like dragging others into it.
Maybe none of your family has ever been dragged into anything, which is why you don’t care about dragging my family into it.

However, it seems like the only categories you know for people are children and adults. If someone is not a child, then they are automatically an adult.
And yet you’re becoming arrogant about what you know
You’re projecting.
 
ATG said, "Judas was a chosen apostle, and so he had to believe in Christ." Election does not work that way.

Regardless of what you believe or think you believe, your fate is bound by election. Your personal thoughts and actions are moot. According to election you must be saved before you believe, you cannot believe to be saved. Chosen by election first then God gives you faith, not the other way around.
I see. So, Judas being chosen, did not have to believe in Christ? Not only without works, but also without faith, the unbeliever can be chosen forever and ever with life? The unbeliever and believer alike can be chosen?

In which case, not only Judas and possibly Hitler were chosen forever and ever, but also Nero and Attila who did not believe, could be chosen with them.

Or, Does faith prove election, though unbelief does not disprove being chosen?

In which case, not only the Lord, but also men can know who for sure is elect, by their faith in Christ. Though a disbeliever may also be elect by grace, not by faith nor works.

Are you elect of God? How do you know? By your faith in Christ? But never by your works of faith?
 
He is a son of perdition, no doubt.

And so, he is chosen apostle and son of perdition in the presence of the Lord with all the chosen apostles, saints, and sons of perdition of God. No doubt?
Judas was a chosen apostle, and so he had to believe in Christ.
No doubt Jesus knew what He was talking about when He said He knew who did not believe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dino246 and tourist
Yes, Judas is a chosen apostle. No doubt.
And he is a son of perdition, no doubt.

And so, nothing shall be impossible to them that believe OSAS: Judas Iscariot is a chosen apostle and son of perdition, now in the presence of the Lord with all the chosen apostles, saints, and sons of perdition of God. No doubt.

Or, we can believe Scripture:

Act 1:16
Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

Judas was a chosen apostle, and had part in their ministry.

Jhn 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Judas is a lost son of perdition not kept by Jesus in His ministry.

Judas Iscariot is not now in the presence of the Lord with His chosen apostles and saints kept of God.

2Ti 4:6
For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
 
No doubt Jesus knew what He was talking about when He said He knew who did not believe.

Jesus never said Judas did not believe.

Jhn 13:10
Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Jhn 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve
.

Jesus said the chosen apostle Judas was not clean and was a devil, not that he did not believe. Assuming Judas was not a believer in Christ, because he was unclean and a devil, is only by first assuming all believers must be clean and elect of God.

Judas Iscariot proves otherwise. Only believing in Christ does not ensure anyone's cleansing and election with God:

Jas 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
 
Jesus never said Judas did not believe.

Jhn 13:10
Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Jhn 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve
.

Jesus said the chosen apostle Judas was not clean and was a devil.

Only believing in Christ does not ensure anyone's election with God:

Jas 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

"Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the
beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. John 6:64

Ah, I see you think someone who believed in Jesus betrayed Him. I do find that odd.
 
"Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the
beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. John 6:64
Well done. You've taken the bait of contextual error.

Jhn 6:60
Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

Jhn 6:65
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

The charge of unbelief is only made to these disciples, that were offended at Jesus' words, and turned back from following Him.

John 6:67
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.


All the twelve apostles remained with Jesus at that time, and were not counted among those disciples that betrayed Jesus by unbelief.

Jhn 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve
.

Here only is Judas specifically recorded as a devil, while he remained among the believing chosen twelve. Judas did not betray Jesus at that time by unbelief with them that turned back, but rather his betrayal would later be by handing Jesus over to His accusers.

Jhn 13:1
Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end. And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him; He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.

Jhn 13:10
Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Once again, this is specifically among the 12 apostles alone before the last supper, where Judas was judged unclean after the foot washing. Only at this time does the devil put it in his heart to betray Jesus to His accusers, because like King Saul, he chose his own things rather than the Lord's.

Judas was no more an unbeliever, than was Peter when rebuked as a devil himself for choosing the things of men, rather than of God:

Mar 8:33
But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.



Ah, I see you think someone who believed in Jesus betrayed Him. I do find that odd.
And I see you neglected Scriptural context, in order to confirm your own assumption.

I do find that every committed OSAS Christian, that seeks their justification by their faith alone apart from their works, is always willing to take Scripture out of context.

Though you have been reasonably fair with the Scriptures, yet even here you are to rash to not study context first. And though this case is not as openly brash as most others, there is never any excuse to do so.

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly

If the angels that have seen God's face in heaven, can sin and become devils that believe in God and Christ, then men also that have not seen God, certainly can believe and sin as devils. Adam being the first example of a believer on earth, that transgressed the Lord's commandment and died to God.

OSAS election by only believing in God, apart from works, is simply the oldest lie of the first angel that sinned, in order to justify devils and transgressors by their faith alone in Christ:

Gen 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
 
Jesus never said Judas did not believe.

Jhn 13:10
Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

Jhn 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve
.

Jesus said the chosen apostle Judas was not clean and was a devil, not that he did not believe. Assuming Judas was not a believer in Christ, because he was unclean and a devil, is only by first assuming all believers must be clean and elect of God.

Judas Iscariot proves otherwise. Only believing in Christ does not ensure anyone's cleansing and election with God:

Jas 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Scripture also does not say that Judas did believe in Christ. If you’re going to criticize someone for making an assumption, don’t make exactly the same kind of assumption and pretend yours is more logical.
 
Were all the people that died before Jesus died,in the same place where Jesus led captivity captive?IDK
People in the OT expected to go to Sheol, righteous or not.

Abraham's bosom was understood to be one part of that.

With an impassable chasm between the righteous in paradise and the unrepentant
in torment, rendering it impossible to cross. Luke 16 v 26 ~ 'And besides all this, between
us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here
to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
 
If you read carefully how each Disciple was picked you see Yeshua went to them and said, follow me. From that request each one had to decide if they wanted to go or to continue as they were.

Judas was the same.

This is important because at that moment when each one said ok or yes to Yeshua they believed in Him.

Clearly, Judas believed in Yeshua.

It wasn't until later that he allowed Satan to rule his heart.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Magenta
If you read carefully how each Disciple was picked you see Yeshua went to them and said, follow me. From that request each one had to decide if they wanted to go or to continue as they were.

Judas was the same.

This is important because at that moment when each one said ok or yes to Yeshua they believed in Him.

Clearly, Judas believed in Yeshua.

It wasn't until later that he allowed Satan to rule his heart.
Interesting
 
If you read carefully how each Disciple was picked you see Yeshua went to them and said, follow me. From that request each one had to decide if they wanted to go or to continue as they were.

Judas was the same.

This is important because at that moment when each one said ok or yes to Yeshua they believed in Him.

Clearly, Judas believed in Yeshua.

It wasn't until later that he allowed Satan to rule his heart.
Jesus explicitly said He chose them, NOT vice versa.