Different Gospels

[Musicmaster]

And yet, you believe your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more
You know there are no more sacrifices for sin

There doesn't need to be any more sacrifice. Yes. When He said, "It is finished," He meant what He said. In Him we are dead to the Law, just as Paul said.

And Paul plainly stated the law was in gentiles hearts when he wrote his letters.

Romans 2:14-15
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another...

So, going beneath the mere surface of things, delving into the deeper, more spiritual levels of our existence in Christ Jesus, what matters most within us is the WORK of the Law written in the hearts of those who have not the Law.

So, the covenant dispensationalists believe is only for Israel in the future, not for the BOC, is now fully reflected in the lives of Gentiles converts in the BOC

Covenant? No. There is no covenant made with Gentiles. It is only with Israel. No measure of replacement theology will ever change that given the Lord is not at all finished with the nation.

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

There doesn't need to be any more sacrifice. Yes. When He said, "It is finished," He meant what He said. In Him we are dead to the Law, just as Paul said.



Romans 2:14-15
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another...

So, going beneath the mere surface of things, delving into the deeper, more spiritual levels of our existence in Christ Jesus, what matters most within us is the WORK of the Law written in the hearts of those who have not the Law.



Covenant? No. There is no covenant made with Gentiles. It is only with Israel. No measure of replacement theology will ever change that given the Lord is not at all finished with the nation.

MM

I knew you would have to try anything, however desperate, however, what is mentioned in the covenant of Heb10:15-18 is still practically speaking fully reflected now in the lives of gentile converts in the BOC

 

[Thaddeus]

Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

Would people in the BOC have heartfelt consciousness of sin if they committed adultery, stole, took the Lord's name in vain, coveted, bore false witness?
All I know would. Therefore, according to Paul's teaching, what is written in that law is now in the hearts of gentiles in the BOC
However, dispensationalists pick and choose what they accept of Paul's teachings

 

[Anchorite]

Why is your local hospital still full of infirmed and sick if YOU have that faith and that ability? After all, if you're still under that gospel, then YOU should be able to do that.

Quote me a verse that says Jesus or His disciples went to all the leper colonies and healed them all.

 

[Musicmaster]

I knew you would have to try anything, however desperate, however, what is mentioned in the covenant of Heb10:15-18 is still practically speaking fully reflected now in the lives of gentile converts in the BOC

No desperation at all on my part. I never said there are no parallels in some things between Israel and the BOC, which also consists of believing Israel today because Christ is the One and Main element across both realms of earthly existence.

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

No desperation at all on my part. I never said there are no parallels in some things between Israel and the BOC, which also consists of believing Israel today because Christ is the One and Main element across both realms of earthly existence.

MM

All three things mentioned in Heb10:15-18 are now fully reflected in the lives of those in the BOC

 

[Musicmaster]

Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

True indeed.

Would people in the BOC have heartfelt consciousness of sin if they committed adultery, stole, took the Lord's name in vain, coveted, bore false witness?

Of course they will. Your questions seems to imply I've said otherwise.

All I know would. Therefore, according to Paul's teaching, what is written in that law is now in the hearts of gentiles in the BOC
However, dispensationalists pick and choose what they accept of Paul's teachings

You don't appear to not want to take "yes" for and answer...all that Paul wrote to the BOC is indeed valid. What's different is when he was addressing Israel. Paul’s epistles that directly address Israel/Jews (as a people) or are primarily for the Jewish audience, include:

• Romans (chapters and passages addressing “Jews/Israel,” God’s promises, Israel’s status regarding the gospel)
• 1 Corinthians (notably chapters addressing “Jews” as a category alongside others, and questions shaped by Jewish practice)
• 2 Corinthians (some sections that contrast Jewish identity/practice with the gospel)
• Galatians (addresses Jewish/Galatian believers and centers on whether Gentiles must take on Jewish law/identity markers)
• Ephesians and Colossians (less direct to Israel specifically; more about Gentiles and “one new humanity,” but they do discuss Israel’s place in God’s plan)

I can understand you having to constantly keep grinding your axe since it dulls so badly and constantly on the dishonest nonsense of which you keep accusing others. Let's just converse, shall we, without all the skirting of ad hominem and other attacks?

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

True indeed.



Of course they will. Your questions seems to imply I've said otherwise.



You don't appear to not want to take "yes" for and answer...all that Paul wrote to the BOC is indeed valid. What's different is when he was addressing Israel. Paul’s epistles that directly address Israel/Jews (as a people) or are primarily for the Jewish audience, include:

• Romans (chapters and passages addressing “Jews/Israel,” God’s promises, Israel’s status regarding the gospel)
• 1 Corinthians (notably chapters addressing “Jews” as a category alongside others, and questions shaped by Jewish practice)
• 2 Corinthians (some sections that contrast Jewish identity/practice with the gospel)
• Galatians (addresses Jewish/Galatian believers and centers on whether Gentiles must take on Jewish law/identity markers)
• Ephesians and Colossians (less direct to Israel specifically; more about Gentiles and “one new humanity,” but they do discuss Israel’s place in God’s plan)

I can understand you having to constantly keep grinding your axe since it dulls so badly and constantly on the dishonest nonsense of which you keep accusing others. Let's just converse, shall we, without all the skirting of ad hominem and other attacks?

MM

All three things mentioned in Heb10:15-18 are now fully reflected in the lives of those in the BOC

 

[Musicmaster]

All three things mentioned in Heb10:15-18 are now fully reflected in the lives of those in the BOC

You're shadow boxing because I never said otherwise.

MM

 

[BartholomewB]

No desperation at all on my part. I never said there are no parallels in some things between Israel and the BOC,

All three things mentioned in Heb10:15-18 are now fully reflected in the lives of those in the BOC

Excuse me for interrupting your conversation, but what does BOC stand for? That abbreviation is new to me.
Thanks

 

[Thaddeus]

Excuse me for interrupting your conversation, but what does BOC stand for? That abbreviation is new to me.
Thanks

Body of Christ

 

[Thaddeus]

You're shadow boxing because I never said otherwise.

MM

Well Im glad you accept that what is written in the covenant of Heb10:15-18 is fully reflected in gentiles today. Im sure, as that is the case, you can come up with an explanation as to why a covenant fully reflected in the lives of gentile converts is nothing to do with them, only Israelites in the future.
Your philosophical intellectualism should have no problem

 

[biblestudent78]

Your posts are so jumbled in with the statements of the other that it requires differentiation to separate it all out, and it's still hard to make heads and tails from. About water baptism, however, the Essene Jews were doing that long before the first century by a couple of hundred years almost.

MM

The immersion pools were not any form of baptism. They were part of the cleansing process. Their purpose was ritual purification (mikveh). According to historical accounts, they immersed themselves daily before communal meals and after any act they deemed spiritually or physically defiling.

As I responded to your former statements I believed were in error. I'm both enlightened and unsurprised by your inability to respond to my direct counter factuals.

 

[biblestudent78]

If someone claims that only the “kingdom gospel” disciples were given the power to heal, James contradicts this false opinion.

James not only affirms the ability to minister healing to the sick, he guarantees that the prayer of faith (which he earlier maintains must be unwavering) will save the sick.

He then goes on, in the immediate context, to encourage faith in miracles, such as what Elias performed.

James makes it very clear that believers can heal and be healed. And he feels no need to list all the people he personally healed, nor does he say believers should go to leper colonies or hospitals to heal everybody.

James 5

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

Agreed

 

[BartholomewB]

Body of Christ

Thank you, @Thaddeus!

 

[Anchorite]

The Kingdom Gospel preached by Jesus and the twelve:

Mark 16:15-18
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

The Gospel of Grace given to Paul directly from that same Jesus after His acension:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Nobody can possibly see two different gospels defined here.

Supernatural powers are continued throughout the New Testament and are not confined to Jesus 12 disciples, but are ongoing with all believers.

1 Corinthians 12

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Slapping, with warped glee, the seemingly negative sounding labels on… and those of a more liberal leaning buffoonery

The most popular hang-up is the snideness applied in support of a manipulative crusade promotion of a more negative sentiment about the descriptor "dispensationalism," a term that fits Paul perfectly, given that he used the term underlying term "dispensations" a number of times in his epistles


So, when I see the snideness directed against the proper and honest teaching for dispensations within scripture, of which we are instructed to rightly divide within the word of God, especially the snideness perpetrated by people who themselves hypocritically …

What about you? Do you see the differences here?

You derogatory attitude manifested by bitter words, angry phrases, and repetition of “snideness” betrays a sanctimonious attack on other Christians who do not hold your unbiblical views.

 

[Musicmaster]

Well Im glad you accept that what is written in the covenant of Heb10:15-18 is fully reflected in gentiles today. Im sure, as that is the case, you can come up with an explanation as to why a covenant fully reflected in the lives of gentile converts is nothing to do with them, only Israelites in the future.
Your philosophical intellectualism should have no problem

Firstly, it's not a covenant with Gentiles. The Lord never made covenants with Gentiles, only with Israel.

The difference between testament and covenant is much bigger than what most within Westernized religions understand these days. In this age of non-precision in definitions, where words can mean anything depending upon to whom one is speaking, the conversations will only go round and round.

So, do YOU know the difference between a covenant and a testament? If not, then we can clarify that in order to move forward. If you don't and aren't interested in exploring that, then we're at an impasse.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

The immersion pools were not any form of baptism. They were part of the cleansing process. Their purpose was ritual purification (mikveh). According to historical accounts, they immersed themselves daily before communal meals and after any act they deemed spiritually or physically defiling.

As I responded to your former statements I believed were in error. I'm both enlightened and unsurprised by your inability to respond to my direct counter factuals.

If I overlooked something it's because of my chaotic schedule, for which I apologize, but the attitude behind your words have the ring of a mind made up and so nothing else potentially being of any real value to you, so it's pointless, right?

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Nobody can possibly see two different gospels defined here.

I've quoted the differences within scripture many times throughout, and will do so again if you missed it.

Supernatural powers are continued throughout the New Testament and are not confined to Jesus 12 disciples, but are ongoing with all believers.

Indeed? Then is your local hospital still full of infirmed people? Why aren't you out there exercising that healing power? Please share with us all what you're doing about all the suffering in your neck of the woods, if you don't mind.

1 Corinthians 12

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.




You derogatory attitude manifested by bitter words, angry phrases, and repetition of “snideness” betrays a sanctimonious attack on other Christians who do not hold your unbiblical views.

I'm not being snide nor sanctimonious at all, I've simply been asking reasonable questions as to why nobody is doing those things. For you to engage the fallacy of fundamental attribution error...in other words, false accusation. I'm genuinely interested in what others have to say who believe these things are still in force today. All that I stated that put anything down are the demonstrations I have personally observed within the local area of Pentecostal organizations and the charlatans I've seen running those shows. I saw the clowns pulling the one shoe partly down off the foot to try and make it look like the leg had lengthened, etc. I've seen firsthand the people who came in on a wheelchair who were never really unable to walk, but who admitted that the end justified the means...on and on the contrary evidences have continued unabated. Meanwhile, the hospitals remain filled, the people still die from the cancers in those places, and nothing really has manifested to evidence any real miracles at all.

Do YOU have an explanation for that? It's a simple question, and without malice. I really want to know.

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

Firstly, it's not a covenant with Gentiles. The Lord never made covenants with Gentiles, only with Israel.

The difference between testament and covenant is much bigger than what most within Westernized religions understand these days. In this age of non-precision in definitions, where words can mean anything depending upon to whom one is speaking, the conversations will only go round and round.

So, do YOU know the difference between a covenant and a testament? If not, then we can clarify that in order to move forward. If you don't and aren't interested in exploring that, then we're at an impasse.

MM

I suppose that was the best you could come up with to avoid answering the question