Calvinism is Gospel !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
They have no verse on the free will of the natural man so they have no other option open to them but
to conflate choice with having a will that is free despite all the very many verses that speak against
such for the natural man, alongside the very salient fact that they seem blind to the differences between
the natural man and the spiritual man. Many FWers have no spiritual discernment on this issue at all.
It is God Who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose. Apart from Me you can do nothing. No word from God will ever fail. “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” But Jesus said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”
I believe all of our choices,plans,are within God's framework as he planned the days of our lives.
Proverbs 16:9 (AMP)
A man’s mind plans his way [as he journeys through life], But the LORD directs his steps and establishes them.
Proverbs 19:21
Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail.
James 4:13-15
Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business, and make a profit.” / You do not even know what will happen tomorrow! What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. / Instead, you ought to say, “If the Lord is willing, we will live and do this or that.”
Flesh serves the law of sin. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. Nothing good lives in my flesh. Who can say, “I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin”? Who can bring what is pure from the impure? No one! The flesh brings forth fruit unto death. Romans 7 v 25, Galatians 5 v 17, Romans 7 v 18, Proverbs 20 v 9, Job 14 v 4, Romans 7 v 5 (Romans 8 v 13 and James 1 v 15)
Your wit is rather glaring, I can't imagine anyone missing it.Did you see my wink?
Should not take what I said so seriously.
Yes agree. But we are still responsible for our plans. Such as if we knowingly commit sin, God will hold us responsible, discipline us.
Romans 8 verse 7a, Galatians 5 verse 17, John 1 verse 5, John 14 verse 17 ~ The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. Darkness does not comprehend the Light. The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.
I'm not sure if you've ever read Acts 13:48
Acts 13:48: "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."
The appointment to eternal life happens first. Belief is the direct result—not the cause—of being chosen by God. Because of humanity's fallen nature, no one would choose to believe the gospel on their own. Therefore, faith is given as a sovereign gift from God only to those He chose before the creation of the world.
God's act of choosing (election) is entirely unconditional and based solely on His grace, not on His foreknowledge of whether an individual would choose to believe.
Romans 8:29-30: "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son... And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified..."
This describes a seamless, unbroken chain of salvation—from predestination to glorification—that originates entirely with God's sovereign foreknowledge.
A "sinner" does equate to inability to believe in passages like Romans 3:9 and Ephesians 2:1-3, the unregenerate are described as being "dead in trespasses and sins," children of wrath, and enslaved to sin. In this relational sense, a sinner is defined by their state of enmity toward God.
And you got the last part of your reply backwards. Those who believed the gospel, weren't appointed because they believed. No they believed, because they were appointed before the world was made.
Your Romans 8 quote is out of context - those he foreknew were Israel whom he had a covenant relationship with.
Romans 11:1 say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. . .
Yes the life, crucifixion/death, burial and resurrection all happened in real life and time right here on planet earth. So it wasn't solely a spiritual event. I'm not sure where you're going with this, but I hope you're not suggesting that I'm only spiritualising the gospel message.
I already showed where the Bible describes all mankind as being born without the ability to believe the gospel. 1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
"The natural man" refers to everyone who is born and not yet converted/regenerated/born again. If you're suggesting that everyone is born with the ability freely choose to believe the gospel, prior to being converted, then you need to show me where the Bible supports this idea.
Agreed. well said. if I may add, the ones in Acts 13:48 who had been appointed to eternal life first, to them its given to believe Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
The word given is χαρίζομαι:
. to give graciously, give freely, bestow:
Its derived from charis which is where we get the word for Grace over 130x in the NT
And its
- a gift of grace
So technically to believe on His Name is gifted to the elect by grace, for they had been ordained to eternal life previously.
I'm not quite sure which event you have in mind, so I can't say whether we are talking about the same one. I have made several videos that address this event, hoping to help us understand the scriptures a bit better.
In lieu of that, let me summarize what I think I know.
Joel chapter 1
Joel 1 delivers a stark, prophetic wake‑up call: a devastating locust plague has stripped the land bare, layer after layer—*gnawing*, *swarming*, *creeping*, *stripping*—until nothing remains. Joel urges every group in Judah to pay attention: elders, farmers, priests, even drunkards. What they witness is not a normal agricultural disaster but a sign of divine judgment, “like nothing that has ever happened before.” The chapter presses the people toward lament and repentance, insisting that this unprecedented ruin is meant to shake them awake so they can return to God before an even greater calamity arrives.
Joel chapter 2
Joel 2 intensifies the warning of chapter 1: the locusts were only the beginning. Now Joel describes an invading force like armies of fire—a disciplined, unstoppable host that moves with the precision of soldiers but consumes with the fury of flame. Before them the land is “like the garden of Eden,” and behind them it becomes a scorched wilderness. Joel names this terrifying advance the Day of the Lord, a moment when God’s judgment breaks into history with a power no one can ignore. Yet in the middle of this dread, Joel issues a call: gather in Zion, return to God with fasting, weeping, and prayer. Those who heed the summons and come to Jerusalem find refuge; the fire passes them by. The chapter holds together warning and hope—judgment sweeping across the land, and deliverance for all who respond to God’s call and seek mercy in His presence.
Malachi 4
Malachi 4 presents the same event Joel warned about, but with a crucial distinction: the Day of the Lord does not treat everyone the same. For those who remain hardened, the Lord’s arrival is like an oven—roots and branches burned, nothing left to stand. But for those who turn toward Him, the very same moment becomes healing: “the sun of righteousness” rises with **healing in its wings**, restoring what judgment would have consumed. Malachi’s point is that orientation toward God determines outcome. The fire that destroys the arrogant becomes warmth and restoration for the faithful. Judgment and mercy arrive together, and the difference between being **burned up** or **healed** is found in the heart’s posture toward the Lord.---
Finally, other references to fire and the survival of the holy ones in Jerusalem.
Isaiah and Ezekiel repeatedly describe a moment when judgment sweeps across the land, yet a surviving group in Jerusalem—Zion—remains, not because of their strength but because God has set them apart as His consecrated ones. Isaiah speaks of this remnant as those “left in Zion” and “remaining in Jerusalem,” who will be called *holy* after God washes away Zion’s guilt (Isaiah 4:2–4). Later he describes God assembling survivors on His holy mountain, those who escape the destruction that overtakes the rest (Isaiah 10:20–22; 37:31–32). Ezekiel echoes the same pattern: even as judgment falls, God preserves a group marked out for Him—those who “sigh and groan” over the city’s sins (Ezekiel 9:4–6), and those He brings through fire to refine rather than destroy (Ezekiel 20:37–38). Across these passages, the theme is consistent: **the same divine fire that consumes the rebellious becomes purification for the consecrated**, and the survivors in Zion stand as the sign of God’s mercy within judgment.
Okay, my AI buddy helped me write the summaries above but I have studied these passages myself and drew my own conclusions because I was interested in the "Day of the Lord." This was a brief look at the subject, and hopefully you get a glimpse of what will happen just before Jesus returns.
Yes the elect while unregenerate and the rest of mankind, are given a nature that constitutes them as children of disobedience Eph 2:2
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
That disobedience is also unbelief, in fact one translator has it :
Wherein in time past you walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of this air, of the spirit that now worketh on the children of unbelief:
Because the same word for disobedience in Eph 2:2 is unbelief in Rom 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief that he might have mercy upon all.
The only way to escape this is by being given a new nature by regeneration to be able to believe, become obedient . The elect are regenerated out of unbelief.
I tried to answer your question about 1 Timothy 2:3-4 in context before, but you obviously don't think the context matters. So now you will need to either accept it or claim the Gods Word contradicts itself, you can't get around it.
You believe that God is trying to save every single person, because you believe the following passage is saying just that. - 1 Timothy 2:3-4 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
You can go back and look at my last response to your claim, but I will now show you the passage of scripture which shows that God is not trying to save everyone and He never will.
Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Sorry for the lengthy reply but I felt it was important to include this passage of scripture, because the Lord Jesus declares in verse 34 that the Kingdom was prepared for His sheep, from the foundation of the earth. This confirms that God had chosen His elect from the foundation of the earth.
You couldn't be more wrong. I am talking to someone who seems unable or unwilling to acknowledge that deeds must accompany faith. In Romans 2, Paul reminds us that we will be judged according to our deeds. Romans 2:5-10: Here we learn that our deeds reveal our heart—our orientation and attitude. For instance, Paul compares those who are unrepentant with those "who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality. People such as these will be granted eternal life;
Once again:You taking the focus off the Gospel and focusing on the doings of men.
I agree with everything you said here, but I don't see a rebuttal of Paul's claim that ethnic Israel has not fallen to her destruction. Paul says that ethnic, naturally born Israel has not fallen.
Now, put together what you said with what Paul said and see where it leads. Both are true at the same time.
- Status