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W
For the x-time and I think Laodicea this is now willful ignorance on your part because I showed that to you several times:
Just because it doesn't say it specifically with this expression in your KJV doesn't mean it's not in SCRIPTURE!!!
Devils and demons are the exact same thing, the first expression just being used in the 17th century King's English! So they translated "demons" as "devils". Has NOTHING to do directly with THE Devil, even though they are under his command.
Devil, devils (demons) and angels are all different words in the original text which is SCRIPTURE! (though the devil is a specific angel but also has a specific name and function)
THE Devil:
Strong's G1228 - διάβολος
Transliteration - diabolos
) prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely
a) a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,
2) metaph. applied to a man who, by opposing the cause of God, may be said to act the part of the devil or to side with him
demon(s) (a devil or devils in the KJV):
Strong's G1140 - δαιμόνιον
Transliteration - daimonion
1) the divine power, deity, divinity
2) a spirit, a being inferior to God, superior to men
3) evil spirits or the messengers and ministers of the devil
Possessed with a devil (not THE devil but demon(s))
Strong's G1139 - δαιμονίζομαι
Transliteration - daimonizomai
1) to be under the power of a demon.
Angels
Strong's G32 - ἄγγελος
Transliteration - aggelos
1) a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God
1 Cor 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels ? how much more things that pertain to this life?
This is referring to evil fallen angels, still the same word for angels - NOT devils! This is after this world has ended here at judgment day, they are still called angels!!!
2 Pet 2:4 - For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jude 6 - And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Still the same word for angels - NOT devils.
It just uses the term angels and only differentiates what kind, holy or the ones who sinned with another word or explanation that describes which ones are meant.
So please show me where in the Scripture it says that magically these angels turned into demons (devils)?
Especially when it says right here that the fallen angels are locked up! So if they are locked up they cannot run around as demons (devils), so what is it then?
Demons (devils) are created demons (devils) why is that so hard to understand?
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
The devil cannot create, so we know he didn't!
Let's look at the OT
evil spirit
evil:
Strong's H7451 - רַע
Transliteration - ra`
adj
1) bad, evil
a) bad, disagreeable, malignant
b) bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
c) evil, displeasing
d) bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)
e) bad (of value)
f) worse than, worst (comparison)
g) sad, unhappy
h) evil (hurtful)
i) bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)
j) bad, evil, wicked (ethically)
1) in general, of persons, of thoughts
2) deeds, actions
n m
2) evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
a) evil, distress, adversity
b) evil, injury, wrong
c) evil (ethical)
n f
3) evil, misery, distress, injury
a) evil, misery, distress
b) evil, injury, wrong
c) evil (ethical)
spirt:
Strong's H7307 - רוּחַ
Transliteration - ruwach
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
a) breath
b) wind
1) of heaven
2) quarter (of wind), side
3) breath of air
4) air, gas
5) vain, empty thing
c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
2) courage
3) temper, anger
4) impatience, patience
5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
7) prophetic spirit
d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1) desire
2) sorrow, trouble
f) spirit
1) as seat or organ of mental acts
2) rarely of the will
3) as seat especially of moral character
g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
4) as endowing men with various gifts
5) as energy of life
6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
7) never referred to as a depersonalised force
Do you see any "angel" in here?!!!
but:
Judges 9:23
Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:
1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
1 Samuel 16:23
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1 Samuel 18:10-11
10And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand. 11And Saul cast the javelin; for he said, I will smite David even to the wall with it. And David avoided out of his presence twice.
OT - casting out a devil (demon)
1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
spirit (demon-devil) of lying
2 Chronicles 33:6
And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
Here we see a familiar spirit (demon) of the occult
God has created these demons (devils) to judge His people. God is Himself not evil but through these spirits that He allows to come and torture people with specific tasks - you can see how these demons have different job descriptions - they are what they are and that is what they do. God gives them the authority if people sin to bring the judgment of God, because that is what sin eventually will bring, death. God doesn't want people to die, but He wants them to repent. That's why He is allowing this to happen this way. You see how Saul was tormented with this evil spirit. After David cast it out with worship, it left, but Saul still did not repent, so it came back! This time worse and it didn't leave anymore but now attacked David when he tried to cast it out again!
Here we see again the correlation between evil spirits and demons (devils), being the same:
Luke 8:2
And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
In 2 Tim 1:7 we can see the spirit of fear:
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
and that it brings bondage:
Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Again very distinctive description of the function that demons have.
They are not angels but created evil, to do evil, to eventually bring people back to God through repentance! God gives us the choice:
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live...
Little long but I had to show this to make this point and I hope once and for all. But again, everybody can believe what they want to believe, because they might have heard it preached from a pulpit or TV, but go into scripture and find out for yourselves. Don't be deceived! The doctrines of demons are mainly that there are no demons, of course, or no hell, etc! So they can do unhindered what they want to do and kill, steal and destroy.
As the enemy of course they would not want to be noticed or in any way or form disturbed, found out and expelled from what you are doing.
Just because it doesn't say it specifically with this expression in your KJV doesn't mean it's not in SCRIPTURE!!!
Devils and demons are the exact same thing, the first expression just being used in the 17th century King's English! So they translated "demons" as "devils". Has NOTHING to do directly with THE Devil, even though they are under his command.
Devil, devils (demons) and angels are all different words in the original text which is SCRIPTURE! (though the devil is a specific angel but also has a specific name and function)
THE Devil:
Strong's G1228 - διάβολος
Transliteration - diabolos
) prone to slander, slanderous, accusing falsely
a) a calumniator, false accuser, slanderer,
2) metaph. applied to a man who, by opposing the cause of God, may be said to act the part of the devil or to side with him
demon(s) (a devil or devils in the KJV):
Strong's G1140 - δαιμόνιον
Transliteration - daimonion
1) the divine power, deity, divinity
2) a spirit, a being inferior to God, superior to men
3) evil spirits or the messengers and ministers of the devil
Possessed with a devil (not THE devil but demon(s))
Strong's G1139 - δαιμονίζομαι
Transliteration - daimonizomai
1) to be under the power of a demon.
Angels
Strong's G32 - ἄγγελος
Transliteration - aggelos
1) a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God
1 Cor 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels ? how much more things that pertain to this life?
This is referring to evil fallen angels, still the same word for angels - NOT devils! This is after this world has ended here at judgment day, they are still called angels!!!
2 Pet 2:4 - For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jude 6 - And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Still the same word for angels - NOT devils.
It just uses the term angels and only differentiates what kind, holy or the ones who sinned with another word or explanation that describes which ones are meant.
So please show me where in the Scripture it says that magically these angels turned into demons (devils)?
Especially when it says right here that the fallen angels are locked up! So if they are locked up they cannot run around as demons (devils), so what is it then?
Demons (devils) are created demons (devils) why is that so hard to understand?
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
The devil cannot create, so we know he didn't!
Let's look at the OT
evil spirit
evil:
Strong's H7451 - רַע
Transliteration - ra`
adj
1) bad, evil
a) bad, disagreeable, malignant
b) bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
c) evil, displeasing
d) bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)
e) bad (of value)
f) worse than, worst (comparison)
g) sad, unhappy
h) evil (hurtful)
i) bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)
j) bad, evil, wicked (ethically)
1) in general, of persons, of thoughts
2) deeds, actions
n m
2) evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
a) evil, distress, adversity
b) evil, injury, wrong
c) evil (ethical)
n f
3) evil, misery, distress, injury
a) evil, misery, distress
b) evil, injury, wrong
c) evil (ethical)
spirt:
Strong's H7307 - רוּחַ
Transliteration - ruwach
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
a) breath
b) wind
1) of heaven
2) quarter (of wind), side
3) breath of air
4) air, gas
5) vain, empty thing
c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
2) courage
3) temper, anger
4) impatience, patience
5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
7) prophetic spirit
d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1) desire
2) sorrow, trouble
f) spirit
1) as seat or organ of mental acts
2) rarely of the will
3) as seat especially of moral character
g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
4) as endowing men with various gifts
5) as energy of life
6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
7) never referred to as a depersonalised force
Do you see any "angel" in here?!!!
but:
Judges 9:23
Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:
1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
1 Samuel 16:23
And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1 Samuel 18:10-11
10And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand. 11And Saul cast the javelin; for he said, I will smite David even to the wall with it. And David avoided out of his presence twice.
OT - casting out a devil (demon)
1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.
spirit (demon-devil) of lying
2 Chronicles 33:6
And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
Here we see a familiar spirit (demon) of the occult
God has created these demons (devils) to judge His people. God is Himself not evil but through these spirits that He allows to come and torture people with specific tasks - you can see how these demons have different job descriptions - they are what they are and that is what they do. God gives them the authority if people sin to bring the judgment of God, because that is what sin eventually will bring, death. God doesn't want people to die, but He wants them to repent. That's why He is allowing this to happen this way. You see how Saul was tormented with this evil spirit. After David cast it out with worship, it left, but Saul still did not repent, so it came back! This time worse and it didn't leave anymore but now attacked David when he tried to cast it out again!
Here we see again the correlation between evil spirits and demons (devils), being the same:
Luke 8:2
And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
In 2 Tim 1:7 we can see the spirit of fear:
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
and that it brings bondage:
Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Again very distinctive description of the function that demons have.
They are not angels but created evil, to do evil, to eventually bring people back to God through repentance! God gives us the choice:
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live...
Little long but I had to show this to make this point and I hope once and for all. But again, everybody can believe what they want to believe, because they might have heard it preached from a pulpit or TV, but go into scripture and find out for yourselves. Don't be deceived! The doctrines of demons are mainly that there are no demons, of course, or no hell, etc! So they can do unhindered what they want to do and kill, steal and destroy.
As the enemy of course they would not want to be noticed or in any way or form disturbed, found out and expelled from what you are doing.
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L
What are you serious? WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? If you don't like my posts then don't respond simple. I was not responding to you. God is not the author of evil and sin, He created all things perfect, it is because of sin that so much pain and evil has come. What you are teaching makes God the author of evil, sin and suffering.
A
Laodicea that is his problem. the whole false spiritual warfare teachings he has bought into. perhaps God will deliver him from the lies.
sometimes prayer is the best response.
trying to teach the whole demons have rights to torment people who sin to a person who was abused as a small child does not show compassion or discernment.
sometimes prayer is the best response.
trying to teach the whole demons have rights to torment people who sin to a person who was abused as a small child does not show compassion or discernment.
W
Yes, that was an indirect response to my posts also by you, since we had this conversation you mentioned here before ( so I am part of the "some people" you are referring to), you throw this out there and then when I respond showing you proof in the scriptures you just ignore that proof, never answer it and keep posting the same response over and over like a broken record.
IF THERE ARE NO DEMONS IN SCRIPTURE SO NEITHER ARE THERE DONKEYS THEN!
The word donkey is not in the KJV, so that means that there wasn't an animal like that used or described by anybody back then in biblical times. Right?! This is exactly the stand your are making if you say something like that.
But if I tell you "you are sitting on your ass" or "to bring your ass over here" nowadays, that would sound like something offensive, wouldn't it!!!?
Is that so hard to understand?
But many people in here rather have their fairy tale believe and just do not care about scripture itself at all!
Nobody gave any proof of what they are saying about fallen angels being devils (demons).
Because it's just a believe that nobody wants to or can back up, it's just assumed to be so!
It's always easier to keep closing your eyes to the truth instead of accepting something that is uncomfortable to know about the truth...
Laodicea, you were all upset with me when I didn't answer the way YOU would have liked me to, when you told me that this "very good study" post that Gotime posted (and you just reposted) , even though that this had nothing to do with you and there was no mention of you in my answer then.
Well, if you want to believe twisted Mormon doctrine and Jesus being from another planet and God having other planets with other people, and heresy, false doctrines of people in heaven before Jesus, etc.. then go right ahead...
The irony is you are doing here exactly what you are blaming me for in the above quote of yours. So why does that offend you so much that I don't like Gotimes post? Maybe because you also have your mindset, that you don't want to change, not even for scriptural truth!? Well it's your right and choice to do that. But please don't get all upset if I have mine too that actually is based on scripture.
Just saying...
IF THERE ARE NO DEMONS IN SCRIPTURE SO NEITHER ARE THERE DONKEYS THEN!
The word donkey is not in the KJV, so that means that there wasn't an animal like that used or described by anybody back then in biblical times. Right?! This is exactly the stand your are making if you say something like that.
But if I tell you "you are sitting on your ass" or "to bring your ass over here" nowadays, that would sound like something offensive, wouldn't it!!!?
Is that so hard to understand?
But many people in here rather have their fairy tale believe and just do not care about scripture itself at all!
Nobody gave any proof of what they are saying about fallen angels being devils (demons).
Because it's just a believe that nobody wants to or can back up, it's just assumed to be so!
It's always easier to keep closing your eyes to the truth instead of accepting something that is uncomfortable to know about the truth...
Laodicea, you were all upset with me when I didn't answer the way YOU would have liked me to, when you told me that this "very good study" post that Gotime posted (and you just reposted) , even though that this had nothing to do with you and there was no mention of you in my answer then.
Well, if you want to believe twisted Mormon doctrine and Jesus being from another planet and God having other planets with other people, and heresy, false doctrines of people in heaven before Jesus, etc.. then go right ahead...
The irony is you are doing here exactly what you are blaming me for in the above quote of yours. So why does that offend you so much that I don't like Gotimes post? Maybe because you also have your mindset, that you don't want to change, not even for scriptural truth!? Well it's your right and choice to do that. But please don't get all upset if I have mine too that actually is based on scripture.
Just saying...
A
that statement makes it personal because you addressed him by name and insulted him. don't act like you are innocent when he finds offense in your words.
your logic is something to watch. You do not want to admit that Demons are fallen angels but you will think that Evil refers to demons and Darkness also refers to demons when neither is implied by the text.
"lying spirit" is referring to a spirit that lies not a demon of lies. All demons lie. Satan is called the king of lies. tell me were that spirit is a demon of LIES?
Angels are made to be ministering spirits. that verse is about a spirit under God's direct control that execute God's commandments. It is an angel still in the ranks of God not one of the spirits or demons that come from the dragon, the beast or the false prophet.
No where in the Bible does it says God created demons as Evil spirits. They were created as angels or ministering spirits that rebelled or they came out of the Serpent, the beast or the false prophet.
Here are the Bible verses pertaining to the nature of angels as spirits. You have already admitted that when the Bible use the word spirits it sometimes refers to demons. Now read the verses the show the spirits also refer to angels. Also the verse from Revelation where God reveals where the spirits of devils come from.
Hebrews 1:7
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Revelation 16:13-14
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
As you should be able to read and see some spirits come from God and they are referred to as ANGELS and some come from the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet and they are DEVILS.
The word "spirits" refer to both Angels and Devils.
So why do you have such a problem understanding that fallen angels are also fallen spirits which have also been referred to as deceiving spirits, devils or demons?
your logic is something to watch. You do not want to admit that Demons are fallen angels but you will think that Evil refers to demons and Darkness also refers to demons when neither is implied by the text.
"lying spirit" is referring to a spirit that lies not a demon of lies. All demons lie. Satan is called the king of lies. tell me were that spirit is a demon of LIES?
Angels are made to be ministering spirits. that verse is about a spirit under God's direct control that execute God's commandments. It is an angel still in the ranks of God not one of the spirits or demons that come from the dragon, the beast or the false prophet.
No where in the Bible does it says God created demons as Evil spirits. They were created as angels or ministering spirits that rebelled or they came out of the Serpent, the beast or the false prophet.
Here are the Bible verses pertaining to the nature of angels as spirits. You have already admitted that when the Bible use the word spirits it sometimes refers to demons. Now read the verses the show the spirits also refer to angels. Also the verse from Revelation where God reveals where the spirits of devils come from.
Hebrews 1:7
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Revelation 16:13-14
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
As you should be able to read and see some spirits come from God and they are referred to as ANGELS and some come from the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet and they are DEVILS.
The word "spirits" refer to both Angels and Devils.
So why do you have such a problem understanding that fallen angels are also fallen spirits which have also been referred to as deceiving spirits, devils or demons?
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W
First of all, who asks you to butt in to a conversation that was between Laodicea and me. Are you his spokesperson or manager?! I already answered him about that.
Second of all thank you for making my point with the Rev 16:13-14 scripture. You still have no idea what you are talking about, even though I explicitly showed this to be biblical in detail, with (original) scripture. Go back and read it carefully again. I mean really read it, since you totally missed the point and the facts of my post, hence your "counter" argument in your quoted scripture being a statement and argument for exactly what I laid out to proof.
This is not about what I believe here, this is about clear cut scriptural facts and evidences, but you want to turn it into a belief, since your indoctrinated mindset in this does not allow for anybody with any evidence whatsoever to come into your "worldview" that you most likely received from some misguided teachings and preachings of which is mostly going on here in our churches nowadays.
I don't blame you for not knowing the truth behind this, I was there not that long ago and probably would have argued similar about the same topic... but hearing the truth in this matter and then just doing research for myself, showed me where the error lies and how I have believed many things in the Bible before that plainly weren't there or not true, but since they had been taught over and over again all these years almost everywhere, I at times just took them for the truth, I mean so many well meaning people saying the same things can't be wrong, right?!
But being shown the truth behind this matter and yet still refusing to just look at the facts yourself and just keeping to argue against these facts, but instead continue blindly believing the non factual mindset that has been indoctrinating so many, even though the evidence is right in front of you, is making oneself ignorant to that truth, because it is easier to belief the "non-offensive" seeker friendly accepted view of the matter, for various reasons.
Everybody has a right to what they want to belief, truth or not, so this is just up to you.
A
first of all this is a public forum. if you were having a private conversation with Lao you should have pmed him.
second of all the message is not seeker friendly.
everyone now a days wants to be some sort of super spiritual warrior who disregards scripture. Your message is found not in Christianity but in pagan religions and doctrines that have been given the trappings of the Bible.
The scriptures lay out quite clearly that both angels and demons are referred to as Spirits in the Bible and that the spirits can either come from GOD or the Dragon and his minions.
That is why Jesus tells His disciples to NOT believe every spirit but to TEST them.
Revelations reveals that the spirits come out of the Dragon, the Beast and the False Prophet.
I have read your words and disagree with your reading of the scriptures and listed the reasons in my post. If you don't like it then you can simply say that, instead of making ad hominem attacks.
I speak for myself and I just happen to agree with Lao on this point: that demons were not created as demons but were fallen angels who were cast out with the dragon.
you swallowed false doctrine that is your choice.
however I get this feeling that you will change your stance and pretend like it was your stance all along. make the debate be about the word demon and not about the origin of demons.
second of all the message is not seeker friendly.
everyone now a days wants to be some sort of super spiritual warrior who disregards scripture. Your message is found not in Christianity but in pagan religions and doctrines that have been given the trappings of the Bible.
The scriptures lay out quite clearly that both angels and demons are referred to as Spirits in the Bible and that the spirits can either come from GOD or the Dragon and his minions.
That is why Jesus tells His disciples to NOT believe every spirit but to TEST them.
Revelations reveals that the spirits come out of the Dragon, the Beast and the False Prophet.
I have read your words and disagree with your reading of the scriptures and listed the reasons in my post. If you don't like it then you can simply say that, instead of making ad hominem attacks.
I speak for myself and I just happen to agree with Lao on this point: that demons were not created as demons but were fallen angels who were cast out with the dragon.
you swallowed false doctrine that is your choice.
however I get this feeling that you will change your stance and pretend like it was your stance all along. make the debate be about the word demon and not about the origin of demons.
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A
Hey Mr Warrior Please settle down. A servant of the Lord must not strive...if by chance you are here to serve the Lord.
My sis is here in an open forum and may respond to everyone...if you want privacy then leave the forums.
You should have known before you started that proving this subject cant be done. It was meant to be that way...
or there would have been one or two more verses in the bible to settle it. So enjoy yourself discussing it.
My sis is here in an open forum and may respond to everyone...if you want privacy then leave the forums.
You should have known before you started that proving this subject cant be done. It was meant to be that way...
or there would have been one or two more verses in the bible to settle it. So enjoy yourself discussing it.
A
i reread it and see where we differ in ideas and beliefs:
Yes there are angels who cause people to fear God and punishes them under God's commandments, but they are NOT demons. they are still angels under God's commands.
Demons led peope AWAY from God into rebellion and to blur the line between punishing angels under God's control and demons who can appear as angels under Satan's is folly.
Demons are fallen angels, evil spirits who are in rebellion to GOD and should be resisted for they do not lead people to God but chase and enslave them to sin.
Punishing angels teach and reprimand people like a principal or a police officer does for the safety of the school or community. Demons might have been members of the angelic police force but were corrupted and now do not serve GOD and the world but seek their own gains.
There is a difference and you have to rightly divide good and evil.
don't believe the lies that say that God is divided against Himself.
That He promotes and instructs demons to lead people astray.
James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Saul was already sinning. His death and the lying spirit on the lips of his prophets was a judgment NOT a temptation. Yet God was merciful and sent another TRUE prophet to warn him that he did not heed.
Yes there are angels who cause people to fear God and punishes them under God's commandments, but they are NOT demons. they are still angels under God's commands.
Demons led peope AWAY from God into rebellion and to blur the line between punishing angels under God's control and demons who can appear as angels under Satan's is folly.
Demons are fallen angels, evil spirits who are in rebellion to GOD and should be resisted for they do not lead people to God but chase and enslave them to sin.
Punishing angels teach and reprimand people like a principal or a police officer does for the safety of the school or community. Demons might have been members of the angelic police force but were corrupted and now do not serve GOD and the world but seek their own gains.
There is a difference and you have to rightly divide good and evil.
don't believe the lies that say that God is divided against Himself.
That He promotes and instructs demons to lead people astray.
James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Saul was already sinning. His death and the lying spirit on the lips of his prophets was a judgment NOT a temptation. Yet God was merciful and sent another TRUE prophet to warn him that he did not heed.
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Oh my oh my. I think the answer is found if ya just look at the two lineages before the passage.
The lineage of Cain is marked by murderers. Lamech a descendent of Cain admits to killing a man (verse 23). He wants the same protection his murderous forefather wanted, only he wants it 70 times seven (Verse 24). Then the lineage ends.
Then we have the lineage of Seth marked by, Enoch who walked with God so close he was lifted to heaven and Noah who was obviously a very righteous man.
So we have one lineage ending with a murderer and another lineage with two VERY HOLY men.
And we are still asking who the sons of God are? Really? After seeing that simply spelled out we're still wondering??
The sons of God are those from the HOLY lineage. The children of men are those from the umm murderous lineage.
God didn't put those two in there for no reason. He didn't place them directly in front of that story for NO reason..
*face palm*
In my humble opinion of course..
The lineage of Cain is marked by murderers. Lamech a descendent of Cain admits to killing a man (verse 23). He wants the same protection his murderous forefather wanted, only he wants it 70 times seven (Verse 24). Then the lineage ends.
Then we have the lineage of Seth marked by, Enoch who walked with God so close he was lifted to heaven and Noah who was obviously a very righteous man.
So we have one lineage ending with a murderer and another lineage with two VERY HOLY men.
And we are still asking who the sons of God are? Really? After seeing that simply spelled out we're still wondering??
The sons of God are those from the HOLY lineage. The children of men are those from the umm murderous lineage.
God didn't put those two in there for no reason. He didn't place them directly in front of that story for NO reason..
*face palm*
In my humble opinion of course..
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Also we can't assume the Nephilim were somehow interacting with the sons of God and daughters of men. Nephilim are given as a point of reference.
It be like me saying, in 1990 when the bulls played the pistons in basketball, when Kenny G was popular.....
Kenny G serves as a point of reference. No one would assume Kenny G had anything to do directly with the bulls and pistons.
I think it's the same with the Nephilim.
It be like me saying, in 1990 when the bulls played the pistons in basketball, when Kenny G was popular.....
Kenny G serves as a point of reference. No one would assume Kenny G had anything to do directly with the bulls and pistons.
I think it's the same with the Nephilim.
W
You have the habit of answering for people and pretend to know exactly what they are thinking,doing or not doing, like you know everything about them, this is not the first time as you have been putting words in my mouth and creating strawmen for your arguments from the beginning.
And yes my original conversation with him pertaining to that post was about the word "demon", that's what I was trying to proof primarily, it even started in another thread so again trying to confuse the issue that you know nothing about but claim you do, and I also do not change anything, I am standing behind what I am saying, the rest was part of a secondary discussion to answer and reference the last post to him by journey - they are two different things, the first is about the fact of a mere KJV translation issue the other about the application of it, that later eventually flow together in the discussion and in the proof of texts...
And yes my original conversation with him pertaining to that post was about the word "demon", that's what I was trying to proof primarily, it even started in another thread so again trying to confuse the issue that you know nothing about but claim you do, and I also do not change anything, I am standing behind what I am saying, the rest was part of a secondary discussion to answer and reference the last post to him by journey - they are two different things, the first is about the fact of a mere KJV translation issue the other about the application of it, that later eventually flow together in the discussion and in the proof of texts...