Thank you for your reply. Are yu saying that when Jesus told the disciples that the one to betray Him was the one who dipped with Jesus in the dish, He was speaking a parable?
Was Judas Iscariot saved, or was he not?
- Thread starter Godsgood
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Here it is again: you force-fit your own hyper-spiritual misinterpretation into the text where it does not belong.
You have misunderstood and misapplied principles of interpretation and invented this silly idea out of whole cloth. Jesus merely used the concurrence to identify the betrayer.
That’s it; that’s all.
A person who does not know the one true God remains a natural person.
Therefore, the truth of God's word is foolishness to them.
1 CORINTHIANS 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Are yu saying that when Jesus told the disciples that the one to betray Him was the one who dipped with Jesus in the dish,
He was not speaking only to His disciples, but also to the Jews of His time. And the same applies to Christianity in our time today.
The Lord gave this warning to expose those who are called pseudo-Christians.
He was speaking a parable?
According to Lord Jesus himself, yes he is.
MARK 4:34
34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.
MATTHEW 13:10 & 13
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Does the Lord intentionally use human language to test people.
Whether they will humble themselves and ask Him for mercy to reveal the truth of His word, or whether they will remain proud and interpret it only according to its literal meaning.
By speaking in parables, He will find His lost sheep.
And He will simply leave the proud as they are, for they have revealed themselves to be unworthy of sharing in the Lord's gift of eternal life.
A person who does not know the one true God will not receive the understanding that comes from God.
PROVERBS 2:6
6 For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
A person who does not know the one true God does not have the truth within them.
Therefore, whoever believes him will also fall into the pit.
MATTHEW 15:14
14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Anyone who insists that they know the one true God, despite the fact that they do not, will remain in their sin and spiritual blindness. Therefore, no matter how much evidence is presented to them, it will be in vain. For in their blindness, they can see nothing but utter darkness.
JOHN 9:40-41
40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
It doesn't appear that he was saved.
Judas dipped his bread at the same time as Jesus...
Perhaps none of the others were as greedy, and waited their turn
But when Jesus spoke the words about who would betray Him, He was talking to the disciples, and you say rightly that He expounded all things to them, so how was He speaking to them in a parable? The Bible doesn't call it a parable, but records it as straightforward speech.
Mindless repetition of your stubborn error is not helping you or anyone else, and it certainly isn’t bringing glory to God.
You have no objective evidence supporting your claim that I don’t know the one true God. You don’t even have subjective evidence.
Deu 8:19
And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.
Deu 11:16
Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them; And then the LORD'S wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you.
Heb 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Judas Iscariot is just another believer whose heart turned back from the Lord, and betrayed Jesus to His accusers. He that was believing unto life, made himself a son of perdition unto the grave.
He's no different than King Saul, who also betrayed the LORD as anointed king over Israel, unto his own destruction.
The same for Cain, who was a believer that turned from the Lord to offer his own sacrifice and slay Abel.
Gen 4:16
And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
1Jo 3:11
For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Seeking to justify Judas Iscariot simply shows the depths of lies that evil-doing believers will believe, in order to justify themselves also. Afterall, if the believers and betrayers Cain, king Saul, and Judas enter into life, then surely any believer doing lesser evils will enter in...Right? Wrong.
No one doing evil of the devil has any life from Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jo 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is doing unrighteousness is not of God.
5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is not touching him.
Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.
Deu 11:16
Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them; And then the LORD'S wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you.
Heb 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Judas Iscariot is just another believer whose heart turned back from the Lord, and betrayed Jesus to His accusers. He that was believing unto life, made himself a son of perdition unto the grave.
He's no different than King Saul, who also betrayed the LORD as anointed king over Israel, unto his own destruction.
The same for Cain, who was a believer that turned from the Lord to offer his own sacrifice and slay Abel.
Gen 4:16
And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
1Jo 3:11
For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
Seeking to justify Judas Iscariot simply shows the depths of lies that evil-doing believers will believe, in order to justify themselves also. Afterall, if the believers and betrayers Cain, king Saul, and Judas enter into life, then surely any believer doing lesser evils will enter in...Right? Wrong.
No one doing evil of the devil has any life from Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jo 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is doing unrighteousness is not of God.
5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is not touching him.
Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
The Bible explains in 2 different Verses that AFTER Judas dipped his bread then Satan entered into him.
We also know that Yeshua said to Peter that Satan requested to sift him.
So Satan needed permission from Yeshua to have access to the Disciples which confirms the Book of Job.
This also means that Judas was not under the influence of Satan before this time but rather matches the version of the Messiah the San Hedrin believed of a King coming to rule and destroy the enemies of Israel.
This tells us that Judas was saved like all Jews at this time before the DBR of Yeshua because they were followers of the Law.
We also know that Yeshua said to Peter that Satan requested to sift him.
So Satan needed permission from Yeshua to have access to the Disciples which confirms the Book of Job.
This also means that Judas was not under the influence of Satan before this time but rather matches the version of the Messiah the San Hedrin believed of a King coming to rule and destroy the enemies of Israel.
This tells us that Judas was saved like all Jews at this time before the DBR of Yeshua because they were followers of the Law.
If you read the words of God, you might say that He speaks clearly because the meaning seems understandable.
However, God also speaks in parables, which are "dark sayings" or hidden teachings.
This means that the true meaning of His words is not immediately obvious.
God reveals the truth of His words only to those whom He has chosen.
PSALMS 78:2
2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:
The Lord speaks in parables to everyone, whether they are chosen or not.
However, He reveals the true meaning only to His disciples. For it is only His disciples who know the one true God.
Yes, that is true. However, we are talking about Jesus replying to the disciples' question about who would betray Him. There doesn't seem to be the slightest indication that the rely is either a parable or a dark saying.
As a Jew I was taught to remember the Torah word for word. The Tanakh is icing on the cake. Understanding the Hebrew is clearly more insightful than understanding the translation.
Any evidence is of no value to a person who is blind because they do not know the one true God.
The lost sheep are what matter most to God.
Therefore, the Lord God repeats His words again and again for the sake of the lost sheep.
This repeated warning is given to the lost sheep so that they may not be deceived by those who preach or teach the word of God, even though the truth is not in them, for they do not know the one true God.
OLD TESTAMENT
JEREMIAH 31:34
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
NEW TESTAMENT
HEBREWS 8:11-12
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no
I will repeat what I said before.
If what you are referring to applied only to the apostles at that time, when Judas dipped his hand into the Lord's dish, then that event has already passed and would remain only as the story of the Last Supper.
However, the words of the Lord Jesus cannot be denied. His words will never pass away.
MATTHEW 24:35
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Therefore, even in our time today, the Lord continues to expose those who also dip their hand into His dish.
They are what are called pseudo-Christians.
The Jews were not all saved. Surely as a Jew you understand this.