Saved by faith alone?

[Genez]

this verse does not refer to personal salvation but to the general redemption accomplished by Christ apart from us as it says in verse one He quickend us or brought us to life in grace!

thks

Should I argue with "stupid?"

Would that make me stupid for trying?

 

[Genez]

how do you solve this apparent contradiction in scripture?

thks

I only see a big contradiction in YOU.


.

 

[DavidLamb]

for what purpose?

baptism or works after salvation are meaningless

thks

As far as works are concerned, Paul told the Christians at Ephesus that good works was what they were created in Christ/saved for:

(Eph 2:8-10 NKJV) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

So how can works after salvation be meaningless?

 

[DavidLamb]

"works are forbidden"

verses

"works are required"


((works are forbidden))

eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast

((works are required))

eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


how do you solve this apparent contradiction in scripture?

thks

It's not a contradiction. We cannot be saved by doing good works, but having been saved by grace, we are to do good works as a result of having been saved.

 

[amazingrace]

Sprinkling on the head is not sufficient. However, after believing in Jesus and His sacrifice, obedience to the command of total immersion in water in the name of Jesus remits one's sin as the command reveals. That's not an opinion. It is a biblical fact. Scripture reveals everyone, regardless of nationality, had to believe and obey the command. (Acts 2:4-42, 8:12-18, 10:43-48)

Another interesting fact is why the Samaritans were given the opportunity to hear, believe and obey the gospel before the Gentiles (Acts 8:12-18, 10:43-48). As Paul said the gospel had to be preached to the Jew first and then afterward to the Gentile (Rom. 1:16). The Samaritans were half-Jew and half-Gentile. As such, they had to hear the gospel before the full-fledged Gentiles. See, yet another proof that the same gospel had to be obeyed by both Jew and Gentile.

Consider as well, that a person obeys God's command, but it is God that brings about what He promised. This is seen in OT foreshadows, such as Naaman. Did Naaman wash away his own sins by dipping in the Jordan? No. Naaman believed and obeyed the command given by the man of God. And God miraculously cleansed him because he obeyed.

the word immersion is not found in scripture!

sprinkle is found
ez 36:25-27

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

thks

 

[amazingrace]

"Even as many as the Lord our God shall call." ...

After Pentecost, God called Samaritans who were half-Jew and half-Gentile (Acts 8:12-18). Afterward, He called Gentiles (Acts 10:43-48). And finally the account in Acts 19:1-7 reveals the same message presented to the Jews at Pentecost was still in effect over 20 years later.

All those who believe in Jesus are required to repent, be water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin, and receive the Holy Ghost as well.

in the name of Jesus?

mt 28:19

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


thks

 

[mailmandan]

Should I argue with "stupid?"

Would that make me stupid for trying?

When folks resort to carpet bombing, that tells me they are very satisfied with what they already believe and don't want to be confused with the facts. It's impossible to reason with such folks and you just end up wasting your time...

 

[mailmandan]

It's not a contradiction. We cannot be saved by doing good works, but having been saved by grace, we are to do good works as a result of having been saved.

Amen! That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Their hands are full of their works, and they will not let go in order to receive Jesus Christ through faith.

 

[amazingrace]

Being created in Christ Jesus FOR good works (Ephesians 2:10) "follows" having been saved by grace through through fauth, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Do, to know, love and serve God in holiness and righteousness involves good works which is what we are saved FOR.

then its meaningless!

your boss at work says you are to fill out a 30 min report at the end of each day summarizing your days work

will you do if its

required to have employment?

what if its voluntary?

thks

 

[amazingrace]

Being created in Christ Jesus FOR good works (Ephesians 2:10) "follows" having been saved by grace through through fauth, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Do, to know, love and serve God in holiness and righteousness involves good works which is what we are saved FOR.

after the grace of justification and union with God in Christ we must participate in sanctification and perseverance unto eternal salvation!

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(eternal salvation)

thks

 

[mailmandan]

then its meaningless!

your boss at work says you are to fill out a 30 min report at the end of each day summarizing your days work

will you do if its

required to have employment?

what if its voluntary?

thks

You just don't get it.

 

[mailmandan]

after the grace of justification and union with God in Christ we must participate in sanctification and perseverance unto eternal salvation!

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(eternal salvation)

thks

In regard to Romans 2:7, patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.

*Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose our hearts.

These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit, but not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:24-28; 4:4-6; 11:6; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

In regard to Hebrews 10:36, sanctification and perseverance are not about type 2 works salvation/salvation by works at the back door. God’s promises are certain and binding because God is faithful. (Hebrews 10:23) In Hebrews 10:38, we read - "Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." The issue is faith. True faith endures because God keeps His own. That is why Peter says believers are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:5)

In Hebrews 10:39, we read - "But we are not of those who draw back to perdition; but of those who believe to the saving of the soul." Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition. Perseverance proves who really does belong to Christ.

 

[Lamar]

this verse does not refer to personal salvation but to the general redemption accomplished by Christ apart from us as it says in verse one He quickend us or brought us to life in grace!

thks

Well said.

Those in the Faith Alone Regeneration Theology camp cannot present a "faith alone" verse to support such nonsense so they patchwork a bunch of generalities and label them as all-encompassing.

At the same time ignoring the many definitive verses about the need for obedience.

 

[amazingrace]

Should I argue with "stupid?"

Would that make me stupid for trying?

read vs 1
He quickend us
or brought us to life
makes the life of grace possible
this was done by Christ in Her s life death & resurrection without our participation

that explains alot!

thks

 

[mailmandan]

Well said.

Those in the Faith Alone Regeneration Theology camp cannot present a "faith alone" verse to support such nonsense so they patchwork a bunch of generalities and label them as all-encompassing.

At the same time ignoring the many definitive verses about the need for obedience.

I see that you completely ignored post #2940.

 

[Inquisitor]

The book of Acts reveals that John's baptism of repentance was no longer sufficient after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. John's baptism prepared people to believe on the One who was to come, but it did not identify believers with Christ's completed redemptive work.

Following Jesus' sacrifice, the New Testament presents the command to water baptize in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). Through this baptism, believers are identified with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. As Paul explains, "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?... Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death" (Rom. 6:3–4, Col. 2:12).

This transition is clearly demonstrated in Acts 19:1–5. When Paul learned that certain disciples had received only John's baptism, he explained that John baptized with the baptism of repentance, directing people to believe on Jesus. Upon hearing this, they were baptized again—this time "in the name of the Lord Jesus." Their rebaptism was necessary because the meaning and purpose of baptism had changed in light of Christ's completed sacrifice.

Thus, the distinction is significant: John's water baptism looked forward to the coming Messiah, while New Testament water baptism in the name of Jesus looks back to His finished work on the cross. Those who obey water baptism in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins do so in order to be united with Christ, buried with Him into His death, and raised to walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4).

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

You did not answer my question.

Here is what you stated.

Is Luke a chosen apostle?
No. Luke was not one of the Twelve. But neither was Mark, Jude, or the writer of Hebrews (if one believes Paul did not write it). The authority of a biblical book rests on the Holy Spirit's inspiration, not on whether the human author was one of the Twelve.

How about you explain what "inspired" means first so that we are on the same page?

Sprinkling on the head is not sufficient. However, after believing in Jesus and His sacrifice, obedience to the command of total immersion in water in the name of Jesus remits one's sin as the command reveals. That's not an opinion. It is a biblical fact. Scripture reveals everyone, regardless of nationality, had to believe and obey the command. (Acts 2:4-42, 8:12-18, 10:43-48)

Another interesting fact is why the Samaritans were given the opportunity to hear, believe and obey the gospel before the Gentiles (Acts 8:12-18, 10:43-48). As Paul said the gospel had to be preached to the Jew first and then afterward to the Gentile (Rom. 1:16). The Samaritans were half-Jew and half-Gentile. As such, they had to hear the gospel before the full-fledged Gentiles. See, yet another proof that the same gospel had to be obeyed by both Jew and Gentile.

Consider as well, that a person obeys God's command, but it is God that brings about what He promised. This is seen in OT foreshadows, such as Naaman. Did Naaman wash away his own sins by dipping in the Jordan? No. Naaman believed and obeyed the command given by the man of God. And God miraculously cleansed him because he obeyed.

Where does the scripture state "total immersion"?

John 13:10
Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean".

 

[Genez]

When folks resort to carpet bombing, that tells me they are very satisfied with what they already believe and don't want to be confused with the facts. It's impossible to reason with such folks and you just end up wasting your time...

Proverbs 12:1 had such a person in mind....


It is True!

​

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,​

but whoever hates correction is stupid.​

​

.​

 

[Genez]

Does the phrase, "saved by faith" equivalent to the term, "saved by faith alone"?

Without God providing his enabling power of Grace. Giving a person power to function as needed in order to believe?
Faith alone would not save.

Faith is only given after Grace made a person able to believe, chooses to believe.

Faith is what God's Word becomes by being understood and accepted.
Faith = God's Word made known, defines what is needed to be understood when being saved.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."​

​

Romans 10:17​

 

[Kroogz]

It's not a contradiction. We cannot be saved by doing good works, but having been saved by grace, we are to do good works as a result of having been saved.

We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH. Period.

We are to do good works through the Spirit. And that is a CHOICE Just like believing in the Lord Jesus for our salvation.

And MOST believers never even touch divine good work.

They are stuck on not really saved or loss of salvation.........All based on works.

 

[DavidLamb]

the word immersion is not found in scripture!

sprinkle is found
ez 36:25-27

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

thks

What is important is surely not whether a particular word is found in Scripture, but wh0ether the meaning of the word is there. (The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible, but the meaning of one God in three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit most certainly is.) If baptism were not by immersion, why would Philip and the Ethiopian have needed to go down into the water? We read:

(Act 8:37-39 NKJV) Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

Also, if sprinkling were sufficient for baptism, why did John the Baptist baptize in a place where there was much water?:

(Joh 3:23 NKJV) Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there. And they came and were baptized.