What does Occupy Wall Street protests, going on all over world, mean to you ?

[Jullianna]

Green, while we don’t agree on many things, I do want to thank you for giving us an opportunity to vent a little bit here. When we become overtired and overworked, we allow frustrations to build that we, as christians, really shouldn’t, huh? A little bit of sleep can have an amazing effect on one’s outlook and attitude.

I guess the bottom line is that the US was established to be a government by the people, for the people and of the people, but we have become far more accountable to the government and financial institutions than they to us. That needs to change. Economic theories are not going to fix our problems or they already would have.

BUT, the government is not our source. I’m not quite as old as King David was when he said, “I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread” (Psalm 37:25), but I have seen the hand of God directing, caring/providing for me and my loved ones all of my life. He won’t stop now. And He will do no less for His other children.

We’re all going to have times of lean/plenty. I pray that should the time come when I need to lean on others, I will be as Ruth: willing to do my part, loyal and not lacking in kindness or gratitude. In times of plenty, I pray that I will be a Proverbs woman: thankful, wise, thrifty and compassionate.

 

[JamesofLinHood]

Psssssst...not to derail the thread or anything, but CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR ENGAGEMENT! Your lovely lady showed me her ring May God's richest blessings be yours!

Thank you!

 

[Ramon]

I'm wondering when how to care for the sick/elderly/orphans/homeless/hungry became "worldly things"...

MATTHEW 25

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

JAMES 1
26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

MATTHEW 6
1 “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

You should have highlighted it all:

Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

That is when it becomes worldly. When men do it as a protest, and not as obedience to Christ.

In the same way, many people give to charities as a protest, and not as obedience to Jesus Christ.

You said to give a guy a megaphone, and send him down there? Quite the same as a trumpet.

If anything on that megaphone, the gospel of Jesus Christ ought to be preached, because that is what will save people, not this.

May Jesus bless you.

 

[Matthew]

You said to give a guy a megaphone, and send him down there? Quite the same as a trumpet.

If anything on that megaphone, the gospel of Jesus Christ ought to be preached, because that is what will save people, not this.

When people are entrenched in an opposing postiton preaching your beliefs will not achieve anything, but demonstration of the faults within their views will, it always has to be the first step away from protest and back towards reason, I doubt a megaphone preaching of the gospel will do much good at the site of a protest except to inflame it.

As noted previously some of these demands by OWS and other similar protests are so inpractical that the people who are the subjects of the protests will not even enter into a discussion because they know they would be starting from an untenable postion, therefore the protest is simply rebellion for satisfaction, and thus a waste of time.

 

[Jullianna]

You should have highlighted it all:

Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

That is when it becomes worldly. When men do it as a protest, and not as obedience to Christ.

In the same way, many people give to charities as a protest, and not as obedience to Jesus Christ.

You said to give a guy a megaphone, and send him down there? Quite the same as a trumpet.

If anything on that megaphone, the gospel of Jesus Christ ought to be preached, because that is what will save people, not this.

May Jesus bless you.

I haven't seen any of the protestors "practicing righteousness" down there or giving to the needy, so I don't see how this is helpful to them. It appeared that you were passing judgment on the posters here rather than those who are doing the trumpeting. As far as the megaphone is concerned..it's called a joke. I wouldn't send a dog down there, let along a human being. Perhaps you should be down there preaching the gospel to them rather than the choir.

I do appreciate your paying such close attention to the self-righteous/hypocritical aspects of the scripture and hope you find it beneficial in your walk with Christ and communications with your siblings in Christ.

 

[Ramon]

I haven't seen any of the protestors "practicing righteousness" down there or giving to the needy, so I don't see how this is helpful to them. It appeared that you were passing judgment on the posters here rather than those who are doing the trumpeting. As far as the megaphone is concerned..it's called a joke. I wouldn't send a dog down there, let along a human being. Perhaps you should be down there preaching the gospel to them rather than the choir.

I do appreciate your paying such close attention to the self-righteous/hypocritical aspects of the scripture and hope you find it beneficial in your walk with Christ and communications with your siblings in Christ.

The post was a question. I answered it. No judgement passed. I don't see where it offended you.

It is what they think is right. A self glory.

May Jesus bless you

 

[Ramon]

When people are entrenched in an opposing postiton preaching your beliefs will not achieve anything, but demonstration of the faults within their views will, it always has to be the first step away from protest and back towards reason, I doubt a megaphone preaching of the gospel will do much good at the site of a protest except to inflame it.

As noted previously some of these demands by OWS and other similar protests are so inpractical that the people who are the subjects of the protests will not even enter into a discussion because they know they would be starting from an untenable postion, therefore the protest is simply rebellion for satisfaction, and thus a waste of time.

I don't advocate a megaphone. But a demonstration of the gospel. The world does what the think is right and good. There are many faults in the good of men. There is none good but God. So if anyone wants to Preach anything it should be the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Again it is worldly people focusing on worldly things.

May Jesus bless you.

 

[GreenNnice]

Green, while we don’t agree on many things, I do want to thank you for giving us an opportunity to vent a little bit here. When we become overtired and overworked, we allow frustrations to build that we, as christians, really shouldn’t, huh? A little bit of sleep can have an amazing effect on one’s outlook and attitude.

I guess the bottom line is that the US was established to be a government by the people, for the people and of the people, but we have become far more accountable to the government and financial institutions than they to us. That needs to change. Economic theories are not going to fix our problems or they already would have.

BUT, the government is not our source. I’m not quite as old as King David was when he said, “I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread” (Psalm 37:25), but I have seen the hand of God directing, caring/providing for me and my loved ones all of my life. He won’t stop now. And He will do no less for His other children.

We’re all going to have times of lean/plenty. I pray that should the time come when I need to lean on others, I will be as Ruth: willing to do my part, loyal and not lacking in kindness or gratitude. In times of plenty, I pray that I will be a Proverbs woman: thankful, wise, thrifty and compassionate.

----
Julieannie, we don't agree on what?

By the way, I think, to this point, you and I agree, we both believe that the well-offs need to help the least of these, and, 'the least of these,' in my whole thread is who?

The 50+ million not able to afford healthcare (THAT should be FOR ALL, especially the 'least of these.')

The real rate of unemployment includes those that make our paltry minimum wage, 7.50/hr, and, have to support a family. Minimum wage jobs shoukd be reserved for high school/college kids, ages 16-22.
Ok, sure, I'm getting to ideology now so I'll stop there. The real rate of unemployment is not 20% but closer to 35% because minimum wage jobs make up 25% of all jobs available in America. Poverty...


So, who are those on the streets of 250 cities in America?
Well, I will tell you who its not, it's not those that had 6% mortgages 30-year rates and now refinanced to FOUR PERCENT 30-year fixed. No, not the ones that make enough to have refinanced and clear enough to be in a 30% tax bracket .

The OWS are not the middle class AND upper middle class, THEY are the fat cats that are doing fine on planet niñe. i mean, doing fine on planet three . The O.W.S. are the ones, and, listening to this frustration in what I say, and, granted, you should not poo on a police car, or, resist arrest, in most cases, but in THIS case these people, linhood, ritt, liam, have made BAD decisions, these people who are lower middle class AND lower class, they COMMITTED to a $125,000 loan/ mortgage for a house because the banks did little to NO qualification/regulation of the loan! (Although in earlier thread, I said Clinton good for balancing budget, but Clinton ALSO deregulated the banking industry!)

So, who is at fault. Banks. Mortgage companies ?

Who! The stupid person that entered into the loan is MOST at fault it's called ACCOUNTABILITY!!!

OK , that said, those folks who were lower middle class became poor class with loss of home and, in many cases, the pressures resulted surely in loss of their jobs and their families .

YES, these are the stupid people that are the BIGGEST part of O.W.S. , but, as julieannie said aptly of what Jesus wants us to do, and, I think it's REGARDLESS of people peeing in own bed and having to sleep in it. no, what does God wants middle class AND upper class Christians to do in regards to this very VOLATILE AND MAD group of O.W.S. people who shot themselves in the figurative feet and now are a social class or, or two lower is what ?

Help ! The Lord leads. But, yes, julieannie, be like Ruth, and, maybe even provide motherly wisdom too, like , Naomi, and, guys , who are middle and upper middle class, like Boaz, need to ask God how to help to, showing the content of their CHRISTIAN CHARACTER.

O.W.S. is a dumb, unorganized group who doesn't even got the theme right.

99%?

Ha! As I said, the break-up of social classes is as follows, approximately.

Richest - .01% (billionaires)

Rich - 5% (millionaire incomes)

Upper middle class -15% ( $250,000 yearly incomes)

Middle class - 20% ($80,000+ y.i.)

Lower middle class -35% (family of 4 w/ $40,000-80,000)

Poverty class 25% ( family 4 making less than $40,000/year)

So. 99%?

C'Mon, O.W.S movement ! Get it right. The upper middle class and middle class are FAT CATS through this recession , able to have done a 6% to 4% 30 year mortgage refinance, on a $165,000 loan, for example, and that's made their mortgage payment go from $950/month to $800 !


99% ? YOU are the 60% ! The other 40% these past THREE years of recession has just gotten richuh !!!

So, maybe THIS will help the poll results become more actively positive and help.people UNDERSTAND why people are so upset, getting arrested. These people have LOST everything in a lot of cases, and, Yeah, in a lot of cases it is their own STUPID fault but that still is not what Jesuscwants.

Scripture clear: you don't forgive others who owe you and don't help.others in need,YOU won't be forgiven either

 

[Matthew]

Again it is worldly people focusing on worldly things..

'Wordly things'

This term seems to be used more and more in a negative context, it makes little sense to me as worldy things such as poverty, social inequality etc.....the issues broadly involved in these protests are things very much relevant to Christians, which is I think the point Green is making with this whole thread.

We should focus on these things, it is in fact something we should require of ourselves, with our foundation while doing so being our faith in Christ.

 

[KiwiCA]

Not going to get into this at all since I haven't really been keeping up on what this is all about but all I have to say is, they bump minimum wage up to $20 dollars and I better get my pay bumped up to at least $45. There is no way I'm working my kind of job when it pays just a tiny bit more than a kid pushing buttons and ringing up orders. I'd quit and go work at McDonald's. And that is the problem with that idea... Minimum wage goes up, so does everyone else, and everything inflates and minimum wage people are now no better off than they were before.

That's why I never understood these protests... That's like protesting world hunger... nice idea, but never gonna end. The only thing you can do is do your own part. You can make a difference in one persons life. If everyone helped one person, it'd make a lot more change than rallying on street corners protesting I'm not sure what... Own a business? Give someone a minimum wage job at 20 dollars... or let them live under your roof and increase their good living. Someone gets hurt and no health insurance? Pay it for them if you have the means... stuff like that. That's really the ONLY way you can fight this stuff. Do your part whatever you can and if everyone did that, then we're getting somewhere. Don't worry what others are doing, worry about what you're doing.

Life sucks and isn't fair. Pretty much been that way since Adam and Eve messed up... just gotta deal with it. Everyone else did. The poor and rich people from 200 years ago are all worth the same now... so there you go

100% agree

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

I got this list of Demands using the Ancient Chinese art of Tai-ping coupled with a black belt in Google-fu... "Waaaaaaa" *chop*

Ah, yes, then it MUST be true, because anything published on the web is 100% absolute truth, so no need to research it any further.
/end sarcasm.

As for the American Education system, I agree its utterly reprehensible. Which is why I believe it should be privatized or at least the people should be given vouchers and choices. It needs a major overhaul in a big way.

Agreed. As long as we make sure that no tax dollars ever go to promote any particular religious or sectarian belief, I'm okay with that. That means church-based schools would be ineligible for the voucher system.

Free University is preposterous but, that is what a lot of the signs are saying. "forgiveness of student debt and free Universities for everyone"

I could find signs at tea parties that say WAY more preposterous things than that. Do you really want to make this about what a few signs at a few parties say?

As for the expansion of Mass Transit thing. I'm not sure this is a OWS thing or not, they do seem very confused about what entirely they stand for (aside from throwing a heck of a party).

Hmmm. 99% of the population can't agree on something? Gee, color me surprised.

I'm not against environmental conservation and research for alternative means of energy. What I am against is Ethanol, and federal subsidies that promote a negative cycle of benefit to support "green energy"

Psst: They're against government subsidies. Wake up and smell the tax breaks.

And its not the Police causing the problems, its the people in the OWS doing the raping and the pillaging and the pooing on police cars.

Considering you get your news from "Karate Google," it doesn't surprise me that this is your perspective.

You earlier said that you didn't know anyone who was at any of these rallies, let alone who was represented by the movement. You might take the time to meet someone who is actually there, protesting, and get the news from them, hear what they have to say about it, get the word straight from the proverbial horse's mouth, rather than make assumptions. You know what they say about ASSUME.

You don't have to take the time to get to know someone from the movement if you don't want to, but I recommend that if you don't, you should take everything you hear about it with a grain of salt, until you've had a chance to verify what you've heard. Otherwise, you're just going on hearsay and word-of-mouth. You don't even have to believe me. For all you know, I'm some random recluse at a computer who's mouthing off. You don't know which city I'm in, or which Occupy movement(s) I've witnessed, if any. But that's just it: you really can't believe ANYTHING you read on the web.

 

[Jullianna]

The post was a question. I answered it. No judgement passed. I don't see where it offended you.

It is what they think is right. A self glory.

May Jesus bless you

" You should have highlighted it all:

Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

That is when it becomes worldly. When men do it as a protest, and not as obedience to Christ.

In the same way, many people give to charities as a protest, and not as obedience to Jesus Christ.

You said to give a guy a megaphone, and send him down there? Quite the same as a trumpet.

If anything on that megaphone, the gospel of Jesus Christ ought to be preached, because that is what will save people, not this.

May Jesus bless you. "

Yes, by all means, let's pretend that your personal attack against my joke that didn't involve you in anyway was in response to the OP's question and I'll pretend to believe you so we can move on, k?

May Jesus bless you.

 

[GreenNnice]

Not going to get into this at all since I haven't really been keeping up on what this is all about but all I have to say is, they bump minimum wage up to $20 dollars and I better get my pay bumped up to at least $45. There is no way I'm working my kind of job when it pays just a tiny bit more than a kid pushing buttons and ringing up orders. I'd quit and go work at McDonald's. And that is the problem with that idea... Minimum wage goes up, so does everyone else, and everything inflates and minimum wage people are now no better off than they were before.

That's why I never understood these protests... That's like protesting world hunger... nice idea, but never gonna end. The only thing you can do is do your own part. You can make a difference in one persons life. If everyone helped one person, it'd make a lot more change than rallying on street corners protesting I'm not sure what... Own a business? Give someone a minimum wage job at 20 dollars... or let them live under your roof and increase their good living. Someone gets hurt and no health insurance? Pay it for them if you have the means... stuff like that. That's really the ONLY way you can fight this stuff. Do your part whatever you can and if everyone did that, then we're getting somewhere. Don't worry what others are doing, worry about what you're doing.

Life sucks and isn't fair. Pretty much been that way since Adam and Eve messed up... just gotta deal with it. Everyone else did. The poor and rich people from 200 years ago are all worth the same now... so there you go

---
Aces, you'll I guess just have to read my last post and...

no. Duh, $20 minimum wage is going to never happen and never should happen . If nothing else, inflation will skyrocket cuz suddenly, literally, MILLIONS of 16 year olds will be bringing home $600 paychecks AFTER federal withholding and Medicare dockings. Yeah, read my post, but 16-22 year olds should be vast majority , like 90%+, of holding the $10/hr minimimum save job. Yeah, so I JUST bumped up the min. Wage nationally a couple bucks , I have a soft slot for working kids

So, Yeah, the O.W.S. wants, like minimum wage $20 has been thought out by illiterate people, and, guess what, a lot of these people are illiterate, probably majority don't have college degree !

But, Yeah, this '99%' is ALL wrong ! You can read ALL about that in my last post too, but it's really this that should be the 'OWS' slogan:

We are the 60% .


Because the middle class, and, upper middle cLass, and, rich, and, richest FOUR classes making up 40% of incomes have only benefitted VIA 6% to home loan refinanced to 4% and their jobs are $30-100/hr . So....

Well, need I go further except to say the FORTY PERCENS monthly mortgage dropped with the refi from $$950/ month to $800.

---
Matty, you are right, God wants the FORTY PERCENT Christian population to help out Americas' STUPIDS that bought homes with loans they should have KNOWN better not to do, and, that kind of situation has the whole world tremendously weighted economically.

Forgive others because when you in the future get in s situation that threatens to upend your (ok, my) FAT CAT lifestyle you will NOT get mercy and forgiveness eith and that's scripture. The Lord's Prayer references 'debt forgiveness.'

I'm just thankful I'm not so bad off, and, I don't think no.mattet how down I could ever be, I would poo on z police car or resist z arrest (sorry, getting a little 'Puss In Boots' on ya ) but Yeah, the Lord leads, and,.and, I.just encourage you to help.out O.W.S. if the Call comes. Here, kitty, kitty

 

[Ramon]

'Wordly things'

This term seems to be used more and more in a negative context, it makes little sense to me as worldy things such as poverty, social inequality etc.....the issues broadly involved in these protests are things very much relevant to Christians, which is I think the point Green is making with this whole thread.

We should focus on these things, it is in fact something we should require of ourselves, with our foundation while doing so being our faith in Christ.

Jesus has the answers to all of these things, protesting won't answer it.

Jesus has the answers to all of these things. We should focus on Jesus, and his words which are truth.

None of these things are relevant to Christians, but all the words of Jesus Christ are relevant to Christians.

When Jesus came to this earth, he didn't get involved with the politics of the people. He was more concerned about the Kingdom of God.

These are worldly people, focusing on worldly things.

May Jesus bless you.

 

[Ramon]

" You should have highlighted it all:

Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2 “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

That is when it becomes worldly. When men do it as a protest, and not as obedience to Christ.

In the same way, many people give to charities as a protest, and not as obedience to Jesus Christ.

You said to give a guy a megaphone, and send him down there? Quite the same as a trumpet.

If anything on that megaphone, the gospel of Jesus Christ ought to be preached, because that is what will save people, not this.

May Jesus bless you. "

Yes, by all means, let's pretend that your personal attack against my joke that didn't involve you in anyway was in response to the OP's question and I'll pretend to believe you so we can move on, k?

May Jesus bless you.

It was a response to you. You responded to my post.

May Jesus bless you.

 

[Jullianna]

Makes note: Asking questions about statements that don't line up with scripture and making jokes about megaphones is apparently hypocritical and self-righteous. Passing judgment on an entire thread and personally attacking people to cover your tracks when someone calls you on it is apparently acceptable. Got it.

 

[zeroturbulence]

All I can say is that apparently these people have nothing better to do with their time when people such as myself are out of work and spending the time looking. These protests will accomplish absolutely nothing. When the ice and snow start to blow these people will go back home, and everything will have remained the same.

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

[Matthew]

Jesus has the answers to all of these things, protesting won't answer it.

Jesus has the answers to all of these things. We should focus on Jesus, and his words which are truth.

None of these things are relevant to Christians, but all the words of Jesus Christ are relevant to Christians.

When Jesus came to this earth, he didn't get involved with the politics of the people. He was more concerned about the Kingdom of God.

These are worldly people, focusing on worldly things.

May Jesus bless you.

I agree about focusing on Jesus, on his example, he healed the sick, cared for people etc...
I don't personally think these protests are worthwhile, as I've previously stated.

Your statement that these things are not relevant to Christians strikes me as ridiculous, like I said the issues being protested are fundamental issues about how society cares for all it's people, regardless of particular views about the specific nature of the protests the notion that the issues involved do not concern Christians is something I will never be convinced of.

If we don't to a point focus on 'worldy things' we will never deal with the issues that trouble society, the way forward is not to bury oursleves in the bible but to deal with worldy issues from a Christian foundation.

 

[Jullianna]

thank you, matthew. And I completely agree with phoenix. I pray that you find a job soon, phoenix. Must be a very difficult time for you.

 

[GreenNnice]

I agree about focusing on Jesus, on his example, he healed the sick, cared for people etc...
I don't personally think these protests are worthwhile, as I've previously stated.

Your statement that these things are not relevant to Christians strikes me as ridiculous, like I said the issues being protested are fundamental issues about how society cares for all it's people, regardless of particular views about the specific nature of the protests the notion that the issues involved do not concern Christians is something I will never be convinced of.

If we don't to a point focus on 'worldy things' we will never deal with the issues that trouble society, the way forward is not to bury oursleves in the bible but to deal with worldy issues from a Christian foundation.

--
Yes, Mattman, these worldly things NEED Christians to help.

There is a reason America is suffering from housing and unemployment and yes these wordly things are not, on the surface anyway, looking Christian, RAM. BUT God does NOT want us to sit on fence when others are hurting , take Good Samaritan story in New Testament, for example.

I truly believe, and, from what I've seen and heard, do not see college kids in 250+ cities protesting the end of corporate greed , as media seems to be largely portraying but these folks on Wall street and all over USA, and, the world, are the SNAPSHOT reality view of the person who LOST his home, for fault of own MOSTLY but certainly don't let REGULATORS (banks, mortgage companies) off hook as they allowed the cancer to grow by giving the OK to people being given mortgages that they were totally

UNQUALIFIED to get !

The Lord leads. But folks this movement is NOT just going away (I don't think) without a lot of things to come....

I am simply asking you to pray for how, if at all, God wants you to UNDERSTAND the fight (and plight) of O.W.S. movementers, who ARE the poor working class 25% of society and, lower class 35% of societal incomes. Thetefore, the slogan is SIXTY PERCENT , not 99% !

This is what I talk of in earlier posts, in a loosely based demographic that shows the O.W.S. movement still needs to streamline its message : WE ARE THE 60% .