You are attempting to redefine terms to fit your theology, but your arguments collapse under the combined weight of Scripture and basic logic. You admit that man has a sin nature and is "unable to know God," yet you immediately turn around and claim that this same unable man can master his own salvation. Let’s address your contradictions head-on:
1. Dismantling the Semantic Escape: "Depravity" vs. "Sin Nature"
Your refusal to use the word "depraved" because you think it means "incapable of doing anything" proves you are fighting a strawman.
- As previously established, Total Depravity does not mean a person is a completely inactive block of wood or a zombie. It means that sin has entirely corrupted every part of man’s nature—his mind, his emotions, and his will.
- A depraved man can run governments, perform surgery, and build civilizations. But what he is utterly incapable of doing is performing a spiritually good act, such as choosing, loving, or submitting to the true God (Romans 8:7-8).
- He is not physically paralyzed; he is spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1). By admitting man is "unable to know God," you have conceded the entire definition of Total Depravity, whether you like the label or not.
2. The Logic of Romans 10: Preaching is the Tool, Not the Cause
You point to
Romans 10:13-17 to claim that a spiritually dead person simply hears the gospel and "receives faith" on their own. This completely misses the scriptural mechanism of salvation. Romans 10 describes the
instrument God uses (preaching), not the
spiritual condition required to accept it.
- Left to themselves, when a totally depraved, spiritually dead person hears the gospel, they don't accept it—they mock it. Paul explicitly declares in 1 Corinthians 2:14: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them..."
- If hearing the preaching was enough to automatically build faith, then everyone who heard Paul or Jesus preach would have believed. But they didn't.
- A dead man cannot "call upon the name of the Lord" until he is first made alive. As John 3:3 states, a man cannot even see or perceive the kingdom of God unless he is born again first.
- The original Greek text of 1 John 5:1 makes the order of salvation flawless: "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ has been born (γεγέννηται - perfect tense, meaning a past completed action) of God." Faith is the fruit and evidence of regeneration, not the cause of it.
3. The Biblical Reality of Federal Headship (Romans 5)
Calling the clear teaching of the Apostle Paul "demonic" does not erase it from the Bible. Your emotional reaction stems from a complete failure to understand how God covenants with humanity through
Federal Headship (
Romans 5:12-19,
1 Corinthians 15:22).
- Adam was the legal representative of the human race. When he fell, the entire race fell in him: "By the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation" (Romans 5:18).
- If you reject this corporate principle as unjust, you logically destroy the mechanics of the gospel itself. Romans 5 sets up a direct parallel: we are condemned through the legal imputation of the First Adam's sin, and we are justified through the legal imputation of the Last Adam's (Christ's) righteousness. If it is "demonic" for Adam’s guilt to be credited to his posterity, then it must be equally "demonic" for Christ’s righteousness to be credited to the elect without them earning it.
4. There Are No Innocent People in Hell
You claim we believe God throws "innocent victims" into hell over an ancient crime they didn't commit. That is a flat-out lie.
- Because of Adam's fall, every human being is conceived with a wholly corrupt, sinful nature (Psalm 51:5).
- This inherited nature is an active engine of rebellion that hates God, breaks His laws, and produces actual, personal sins.
- When the reprobate stand before the bar of divine justice, they are judged strictly according to their own wicked deeds and their voluntary enmity toward God (Revelation 20:12). Adam’s sin made them corrupt, but their own daily choices prove they love that corruption.
Men are not condemned
only because they reject the gospel; they are condemned because they are lawbreakers standing in open treason against a Holy Creator. The gospel is a proclamation of rescue for those who are
already justly condemned.
I did not redefine any terms. The official definition of "Total Depravity" is this:
Total depravity is a Protestant theological doctrine teaching that, as a result of the Fall,
every aspect of human nature is corrupted by sin.
What dol you understand from the phrase which I have emboldened? It says, "every aspect". So, when awelight gave me a definition of "depravity" by saying that it is just the sin nature and not every aspect of it, I was surprised. This is how I conceded, which means I haven't conceded to the official definition of the term "total depravity".
As previously established, Total Depravity does not mean a person is a completely inactive block of wood or a zombie. It means that sin has entirely corrupted every part of man’s nature—his mind, his emotions, and his will.
As per this quote above, you are the strawman because now you are deviating from what awelight said. He only said that depravity meant sin nature. You are saying that we are corrupted in our mind, emotions, and will as well. This is absolutely false. Our mind is perfectly able to understand if someone preaches the gospel. Our brains are not dead. Our emotions are perfectly functioning if the preacher says that Jesus died on the cross, and we do have a will using which we CAN make decisions.
He is not physically paralyzed; he is
spiritually dead (
Ephesians 2:1).
Here, you are conceding to my point when you say that he is not physically paralyzed. In other words, you know how to play the game of flip-flop. Because the person is spiritually dead, that is why he needs the preaching of the gospel.
A dead man cannot "call upon the name of the Lord" until he is first made alive.
Yes, a dead man cannot call upon the name of the Lord. That is why the gospel is preached to him and God enables his faith by the hearing of the gospel. So, the person calls upon the name of the Lord not while he is dead, but
because his faith has been enabled.
Mind you, faith is not something that man produces.
It is the gift of God.
Faith is the fruit and evidence of regeneration, not the cause of it.
May I know which Bible you are reading? Rom. 5:1 says, "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:". Do you see the phrase, "justified by faith"? What is the cause, and what is the effect here?
Regarding federal headship, it looks like you did not read the context.
Last, you stated: "Whoever rejected him such as the religious sect, Jesus held them accountable. If they were depraved, why should Jesus hold them accountable?". It was not just the religionist He holds accountable, He will hold all who reject Him accountable. Depravity is not an excuse for rejecting Jesus Christ. We are all condemned because we were all in Adam when He transgressed. His curse is passed on to every human being because every human being originated from his loins. If you do not understand this basic truth, then all of your Theology is going to be in error.
The above quote is the context. My question to awelight was simple, "Whoever rejected Jesus were held accountable. If they were depraved, why should Jesus hold them accountable?" By asking this question, I meant that they are accountable for rejecting Jesus and not because they are depraved. He tells me that the reason they are accountable is because they all came from Adam.
Left to themselves, when a totally depraved, spiritually dead person hears the gospel, they don't accept it—they mock it.
This is absolutely false. John 2:23 says many believed in Jesus when they saw the miracles he did. John 8:30 says that when Jesus spoke these words, many believed in him. Acts 4:4 says that many believed when they heard the Word.
Now to fit your theology, you have to spin this up and come up with another strange argument.
as per the Calvinists. God has to show his concern on the outside, but within he has already played the trick.
