Jesus savesSo, a church with "church of Christ" on the sign?
Jesus savesSo, a church with "church of Christ" on the sign?
Eph. 4 and James 3 are both talking about “perfect” men— human beings. Are you saying the word “perfect” in 1 Cor. 13:13 is talking about a perfect man? There is no such thing unless you think it is Jesus; and I have already explained why I don’t believe that.Eph 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Jas 3:2
For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man ,and able also to bridle the whole body.
Rom 8:21
Because the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rev. ch 21-ch 22 show something perfect having come: the new creation.
Either of us could be right. However, the church still has to hear from God and needs healing, and to serve in the powe ofmthe Holy Spirt, and evangelists, pastors/teachers, so still needs the ministry of the Holy Spirit gifts So, any theology that rejects the Holy Spirit’s gifts in the church seems sub-optimal. .
1Co 14:12
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
The church still needs to be edified. That’s what the Holy Spirit’s gifts are for. Your church of Christ soinds Sardis-like.
Rev 3:1
¶
"And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: 'The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars.
Rev. 3:1 "'I know your works; you have the name of being alive, and you are dead.
seems to be
I believe that if you will research the church in the first few hundred years, you will find that according to history, instruments of music were not used in the church until the 7th-9th century. That means for over 500 years the early Christians understood that God instructed the early church to use vocal music, not instrumental. There was a reason they did not use mechanical instruments of music for over 500 years. It was a question of authority. Denominationalism does not regard “authority” as important, believing that man can do whatever he chooses to make “worship” more pleasing to him. . Men teach that Goddoesn’t care if we change it to whatever we think is best., whatever we want, or what pleases us. However, the Bible denies this. The church that Jesus built honors Him as the “Head” realizing that no man has the right or the “authority” to change, add to what God has ordained, or remove what God has said. That is one of the basic differences between Denominationalism and the church that belongs to Christ—the one He built. Denominations take God’s silence as “permission.” This is the old debate between Luther and Zwingli. Luther, like all of the Protestant churches today, believed you could do anything in the church that God did not specifically forbid. Zwingli, on the other hand, believed that you must have authority from God before you can practice a thing. I believe you and I probably have the same problem as Luther and Zwingli—a difference in ATTITUDE toward the. Scriptures.I like the parameters for the most part, but "Their women did not speak in public assemblies and did not usurp authority over a man" does not discern that in the church of Christ authority means servanthood (Matt. 20:25-28) and mutual submission (Eph. 5:21, 1Cor. 11:11-12). The restriction against women speaking (1Cor. 14:34) was probably due to cultural concerns rather than meant as an eternal moral command (Gal. 3:28, 1Cor. 7:12,21,25,35&39-40, 8:9, 9:19-23, 10:31-33, 11:13-16). Also, there is no NT proscription of mechanical musical instruments. Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16 merely indicate that the message in the lyrics is more important than the musical accompaniment.
Amen!! And you made some good points that I had not thought of.Logic dictates that the sign gifts ceased with the completion of the cannon.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Notice all cease and vanish except love or charity.
His point ends by saying:
1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Those that believe in ongoing revelation, "A word from the Lord came to me" etc, say that the "perfect" of verse 10 refers to the second coming of Jesus Christ, so the sign gifts still happen today. But by comparing verse 13 with verse 8 we see that faith and hope were to continue for a time after the spiritual gifts were abolished.
Faith looks forward to the fulfillment of something not seen.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
Likewise, hope is waiting with expectation for something, hope that is seen is not hope. For who still hopes for what they already see and have?
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
If the "perfect" of verse 10 means the gifts end at the second coming of Jesus Christ, then how can faith and hope continue for a time after the sign gifts cease? Because what is hoped for has been realised. So all the sign gifts have to be ended before the second coming.
Verse 13 ends with, "but the greatest of these is charity."
In verse 8 it says "Charity never faileth".
After the second coming of Jesus Christ, when all else has ceased, charity or brotherly love remains, it never ceases.
Paul gives us two illustrations to explain the main point. The first illustration is in verse 11:
1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
This equates attaining the fullness of knowledge with becoming a mature man., Ephesians 4:13-15 teaches the same thing,
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
In verse 12, Paul gives us his second illustration to explain the main point.
1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Mirrors back then were polished metal, so you would see your reflection but it would not be a true or clear reflection, Paul contrasts this with seeing a person face to face, seeing someone clearly.
The point is that the gifts are for a time when Christians see darkly and knew in part, but when we have the completed Word of God, Christians will see clearly and know fully.
Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
If the Bible is not complete then what the Apostles did was not good enough for us today, and more revelation is needed. This is exactly what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, they elect successors to the Apostles, successors to the office of Peter, so they can claim they are speaking for God by divine revelation, and their teaching evolves over the centuries. They believe the gifts have not ceased but are ongoing. The modern day Charismatic movement does the same thing, adding divine revelation to what God has said.
2Ti 3:15Paul told Timothy that the scriptures are ALL we need to be “complete”, thoroughly equipped for everything. We do not need anything else.
Where does Paul say that the scriptures "make us complete”? 1 Tim 3:15-17 doesn’t say that.The primary method of edification for the church is through the scriptures. Like Paul said, It instructs us in righteousness and makes us “complete”. Paul says it is “profitable.” We get out “faith” from the scriptures. Faith comes from hearing the word of God. Romans 10:17.
You make some good points, WayneNSO.Logic dictates that the sign gifts ceased with the completion of the cannon.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Notice all cease and vanish except love or charity.
His point ends by saying:
1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Those that believe in ongoing revelation, "A word from the Lord came to me" etc, say that the "perfect" of verse 10 refers to the second coming of Jesus Christ, so the sign gifts still happen today. But by comparing verse 13 with verse 8 we see that faith and hope were to continue for a time after the spiritual gifts were abolished.
Faith looks forward to the fulfillment of something not seen.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
Likewise, hope is waiting with expectation for something, hope that is seen is not hope. For who still hopes for what they already see and have?
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
If the "perfect" of verse 10 means the gifts end at the second coming of Jesus Christ, then how can faith and hope continue for a time after the sign gifts cease? Because what is hoped for has been realised. So all the sign gifts have to be ended before the second coming.
Verse 13 ends with, "but the greatest of these is charity."
In verse 8 it says "Charity never faileth".
After the second coming of Jesus Christ, when all else has ceased, charity or brotherly love remains, it never ceases.
Paul gives us two illustrations to explain the main point. The first illustration is in verse 11:
1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
This equates attaining the fullness of knowledge with becoming a mature man., Ephesians 4:13-15 teaches the same thing,
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
In verse 12, Paul gives us his second illustration to explain the main point.
1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Mirrors back then were polished metal, so you would see your reflection but it would not be a true or clear reflection, Paul contrasts this with seeing a person face to face, seeing someone clearly.
The point is that the gifts are for a time when Christians see darkly and knew in part, but when we have the completed Word of God, Christians will see clearly and know fully.
Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
If the Bible is not complete then what the Apostles did was not good enough for us today, and more revelation is needed. This is exactly what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, they elect successors to the Apostles, successors to the office of Peter, so they can claim they are speaking for God by divine revelation, and their teaching evolves over the centuries. They believe the gifts have not ceased but are ongoing. The modern day Charismatic movement does the same thing, adding divine revelation to what God has said.
I believe that if you will research the church in the first few hundred years, you will find that according to history, instruments of music were not used in the church until the 7th-9th century. That means for over 500 years the early Christians understood that God instructed the early church to use vocal music, not instrumental. There was a reason they did not use mechanical instruments of music for over 500 years. It was a question of authority. Denominationalism does not regard “authority” as important, believing that man can do whatever he chooses to make “worship” more pleasing to him. . Men teach that Goddoesn’t care if we change it to whatever we think is best., whatever we want, or what pleases us. However, the Bible denies this. The church that Jesus built honors Him as the “Head” realizing that no man has the right or the “authority” to change, add to what God has ordained, or remove what God has said. That is one of the basic differences between Denominationalism and the church that belongs to Christ—the one He built. Denominations take God’s silence as “permission.” This is the old debate between Luther and Zwingli. Luther, like all of the Protestant churches today, believed you could do anything in the church that God did not specifically forbid. Zwingli, on the other hand, believed that you must have authority from God before you can practice a thing. I believe you and I probably have the same problem as Luther and Zwingli—a difference in ATTITUDE toward the. Scriptures.
The early church had no authority from God to change the kind of music in the church that God had ordained, from just vocal to vocal AND INSTRUMENTS. There are only 2 kinds of music—vocal and instrumental. God has SPECIFIED the kind of music He ordained for His church—vocal. To ADD instruments to what God has said, is to act without His authority and is exactly what He is talking about in Rev. 22:18. This is exactly the situation in Matt. 7. Those believers who thought they were Christian’s, were refused because, as Jesus says in verse 23, they were “practicing lawlessness!!” They were doing things WITHOUT GOD’s AUTHORITY, or without God’s law or permission. Oh, yes, they were performing many mighty works, THEIR WORKS, which they assumed God would be pleased with and accept, but God says “NO”. You didn’t have any authority from me for doing these things. So I think Luther was the one who had it wrong. I have to go along with Zwingli’s thought on what can we do in the church.
You said, “the restriction against women speaking was “PROBABLY” due to cultural concerns rather than meant as an eternal moral command.” And yet, immediately after Paul tells wonen to keep silent in the church, he says, “the things I am writing to you ARE THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD.” That does not sound like Paul is using “culture” as his reason for teaching women to be silent. In the church. If you will look back to chapter 1:2, you will see WHO Paul is addressing this letter to: to the church at Corinth, yes. But ALSO, to all saints who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, AND…. To ALL WHO IN EVERY PLACE CALL ON THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD, both theirs and ours.” The things Paul wrote in this book we’re to ALL CHRISTIANS IN EVERY PLACE and we’re the commandments of the Lord. Now add to that chapter 4:, verse 17 - “…who will remind you of MY WAYS IN CHRIST, AS I TEACH EVERYWHERE IN EVERY CHURCH.”
So here is why I don’t accept the argument that women keeping silent in the church was a “cultural thing”; first of all, Paul wrote this letter to every church in every place and to all Christians everywhere. 2) Paul tells them specifically that the things I am telling you are the commandments of the Lord. My own personal opinion is that the reason he says this so soon after telling women to keep silent, was because he knew this teaching was hard, and would not be accepted by many. Maybe also he did not want people to think that he had something against women as if these were HIS THOUGHTS and not God’s command. Which is exactly what has happened. Many people believe Paul is expressing HIS views on women and he has unfairly been called a “woman hater.” And 3) Paul says I TEACH THE SAME THING IN EVERY CHURCH. The instruction for women to keep silent was for EVERY woman in the Lord’s church no matter where or when. It is a commandment of the Lord. Everybody wants Jesus as their SAVIOR; very few want Him as their LORD. A LORD tells you what you can and cannot do. A LORD gives you commands and expects obedience. A LORD has authority over you and expects you to be submissive. Not many are willing to accept Him as that!
2 Timothy 3:16-17 the NKJ:2Ti 3:15
and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17
so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Where does Paul say there that "the scriptures are ALL we need to be “complete”, thoroughly equipped for everything. We do not need anything else."
I believe you are reading those verses in 2 Tim. From a different translation. The New King James Version says that the inspired scriptures are able to make us “COMPLETE.” Not just Equipped for every good work, but THOROUGHLY equipped for every good work. God has given us the divine scriptures and the Holy Spirit who dwells in us if we have obeyed Acts 2:38; what else is there? What more do we NEED?Where does Paul say that the scriptures "make us complete”? 1 Tim 3:15-17 doesn’t say that.
Yes, I understand from Strong's Concordance that the Greek word means literally "fresh", and this by implication "perfect" in the sense of "complete":I believe you are reading those verses in 2 Tim. From a different translation. The New King James Version says that the inspired scriptures are able to make us “COMPLETE.” Not just Equipped for every good work, but THOROUGHLY equipped for every good work. God has given us the divine scriptures and the Holy Spirit who dwells in us if we have obeyed Acts 2:38; what else is there? What more do we NEED?
And yet in #42 you said ,2 Timothy 3:16-17 the NKJ:
“ All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE COMPLETE, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
If something is “complete,” it doesn’t need anything else. The definition I found said,
“Complete means something is FINISHED, having ALL of the necessary parts, elements or steps.”
Eph. 4 and James 3 are both talking about “perfect” men— human beings. Are you saying the word “perfect” in 1 Cor. 13:13 is talking about a perfect man? There is no such thing unless you think it is Jesus;and I have already explained why I don’t believe that.
Paul told Timothy that the scriptures are ALL we need to be “complete”, thoroughly equipped for everything. We do not need anything else. God is not still delivering new information that the churches need. In
Jude 3 the Holy Spirit tells us that “the faith” has ONCE for all been DELIVERED to the saints. Scripture does not teach that God is continuing to give us new revelations all the time. He put EVERYTHING we need in His book—the Bible.
I believe you are reading those verses in 2 Tim. From a different translation. The New King James Version says that the inspired scriptures are able to make us “COMPLETE.” Not just Equipped for every good work, but THOROUGHLY equipped for every good work. God has given us the divine scriptures and the Holy Spirit who dwells in us if we have obeyed Acts 2:38; what else is there? What more do we NEED?
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,I believe you are reading those verses in 2 Tim. From a different translation. The New King James Version says that the inspired scriptures are able to make us “COMPLETE.” Not just Equipped for every good work, but THOROUGHLY equipped for every good work. God has given us the divine scriptures and the Holy Spirit who dwells in us if we have obeyed Acts 2:38; what else is there? What more do we NEED?
I’d like to refer you to post #39 by Wayne NSO. He does an excellent job explaining verses I2 and 13. I couldn’t do it any better and not nearly as well.And yet in #42 you said ,
1Co 13:8
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10
But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
13:10 ὅταν δὲ ἔλθῃ τὸ τέλειον (neut. sg.) τότε τὸ ἐκ μέρους καταργηθήσεται
1Co 13:11
When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12
For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
1Co 13:13
And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Paul says here that when that which is perfect has come then that which is in part will be done away,,,,and then we shall see face ti face…and then I shall know just as I am known.
You say we see Jesus face to face now that the canon of scripture is compete, and you say that you know Jesus as clearly as Jesus knows you now that the canon of scripture has become complete.
Paul says in Eph 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
4:13 μέχρι καταντήσωμεν οἱ πάντες εἰς τὴν ἑνότητα τῆς πίστεως καὶ τῆς ἐπιγνώσεως τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ θεοῦ εἰς ἄνδρα τέλειον εἰς μέτρον Neut. sg) ἡλικίας (fem. sg.) τοῦ πληρώματος (neut. sg.) τοῦ Χριστοῦ (masc. sg.)
That which is perfect in Paul’s theology is the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.
This will be attained at the resurrection of the saints, when we will see Him face to cace and know Him as we are known by Him.
Did all the saints start to see Jesus face to face, and to know Jesus as He knows them, as soon as the canon was completed AD 90?
No. This won’t happen until the resurrection of the saints. Until then there will be prophecies and tongues and knowledge ; we will be knowing and prophesying in part,; we will see in a mirror (in the word) dimly.
Yes, even though we have authority for preachers taking “wages” from the churches,2 Cor. 11:8, it’s still very easy to abuse the practice. The responsibility must rest on each individual preacher to make sure he is not covetous and using the church to satisfy a love of money. Still, I remember Paul talking about preachers who preach with impure motives; Paul’s attitude was, in spite of that, he was just glad that “Christ”was being preached. Phil 1:15-18. God will take care of any who abuse that privilege.I noticed a difference in the early church and the ones we have now - Paul when staying at a church for a while to preach or teach always found employment so he was not a burden financially on the church.
Today preaching and teaching are paid employment within the church.
I am not saying it is a bad thing to do this today, but we can certainly learn from Pauls example, and there are a lot of fat cats in church employment today![]()
Also @Beckworth.Those that believe in ongoing revelation, "A word from the Lord came to me" etc, say that the "perfect" of verse 10 refers to the second coming of Jesus Christ, so the sign gifts still happen today. But by comparing verse 13 with verse 8 we see that faith and hope were to continue for a time after the spiritual gifts were abolished.
When the faithful are resurrected ir will be to rule over the surviving unbelieving among the nations with severity. They will spend 1000 years attempting to repair the planet and social disorder.,hoping to bring those nations to an understanding of how wonderful Jesus and the principles of His kingdom are. The saints ruling over the cities they ave been given, and will be instructed by Jesus though the Holy Spirit in their decision making. Such pleasing God through obedience to the Holy Spirit will involve them trusting Jesus and the Holy Spirit, Without faith it is impossible to please God. If anyone is going to please God beyond the resurrection, they will have to trust God beyond the resurrection. If anyone is aiming to change the hearts and behaviour beyond the resurrection, they will be hopinhg that their aims come to pass. They would not lve the nations they rule if they are indifferent to whether the nations make good wise choices.Faith looks forward to the fulfillment of something not seen.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
Likewise, hope is waiting with expectation for something, hope that is seen is not hope. For who still hopes for what they already see and have?
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
If the "perfect" of verse 10 means the gifts end at the second coming of Jesus Christ, then how can faith and hope continue for a time after the sign gifts cease? Because what is hoped for has been realised. So all the sign gifts have to be ended before the second coming.
Paul does not say love is greater because it continues longer than faith and hope.Verse 13 ends with, "but the greatest of these is charity."
In verse 8 it says "Charity never faileth".
After the second coming of Jesus Christ, when all else has ceased, charity or brotherly love remains, it never ceases.
Another way to look at 1 Cor. 12-13 is as an explanation of the purpose and orderly seemly exercise of the Holy Spirit’s gifts in assemblies. maybe Paul is saying that in meetings we may receive a word of knowledge, which happens and ends or ceases; to be followed by another gift, maybe, a tongue, which will end or cease; followed by a prophecy which ends or ceases. But all the way through the meeting love should be practised and even beyond the meeting. Unlike prophecies, tongues and words of knowledge that come in meetings and then cease, love pervades everything and is the constant medium in which the saints live and move and have their being: it should abide all the time. And a tongue or prophecy or word of knowledge or healing that is delivered without love is a discordant note in an assembly of Christians.Logic dictates that the sign gifts ceased with the completion of the cannon.
1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Notice all cease and vanish except love or charity.
His point ends by saying:
1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Those that believe in ongoing revelation, "A word from the Lord came to me" etc, say that the "perfect" of verse 10 refers to the second coming of Jesus Christ, so the sign gifts still happen today. But by comparing verse 13 with verse 8 we see that faith and hope were to continue for a time after the spiritual gifts were abolished.
Matthew 16:18 should be read together with the rest of the Gospels, because Jesus Himself explains Peter's role.John 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
Πέτρος Pétros, pet'-ros; apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle:—Peter, rock. Compare G2786.
Stone here for Peter is a piece of rock.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
πέτρα pétra, pet'-ra; feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):—rock.
The interpretation for Peter being called a stone it is a piece of rock.
For people that think when Jesus said upon this rock I will build my Church that He was speaking about Peter this rock is interpreted as a mass of rock not a piece of rock.
The same interpretation as Christ being the spiritual Rock.
And of course Jesus is the chief cornerstone so all the Church is built upon Him.
If it is speaking of Peter it would mean he was the first person added to the Church and then the rest of the saints are built upon him.
But since Peter being interpreted a piece of rock and rock in Matthew is mass of rock then it has to be Christ.
For how can Peter be a mass of rock being a mere mortal man.
I know that Denominationalism does not believe that the name of the church is important. But The Bible indicates differently. And in our society names are VERY important. How would YOU feel if your wife wore some one else’s name? The church that Christ built belongs to Him. He is the builder and author; shouldn’t it be called by His name? Is Christ pleased when men call His church after Martin Luther? Did Martin Luther build the church. Did Martin Luther die for the church? Eph.5:We see in the New Testament the congregations WERE called churches of Christ. Roman’s 16:16.So, a church with "church of Christ" on the sign?