I married at a young age, a middle age, and an older age. I fully agree with you in that the quality of marriage depends on both the husband and the wife.
Contentment in singlehood
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I'm actually arguing against anybody who argues for singles to want marriage, when they probably don't even have an emergency contact; against the mind set that I want marriage just for the sake of marriage just to keep up others.
Ostensibly...
And if that was ALL you argued against, I would agree with you.
But you keep slipping into argument against marriage in general and against "God has somebody special for you" in particular.
If God has nobody for you, whom are you to marry? You see, many girls fantasize about their prince charming and their wedding day, I actually do understand that, I get that sentiment, but that's mostly just for the aesthetics and glamour, they're not putting their feet in their mama's shoes.
It's fine to want romance and sex and marriage. Just because I'm not married today doesn't mean I can't want to be married in the future. It's fine to eventually want to be married.
Covetousness refers to a greedy desire. One of the examples we can see in Exodus 20:17 is a prohibition on coveting "your neighbor's wife." Of course, it's possible to desire marriage without desiring a specific person as your marriage partner, such as your neighbor's wife, who's already married. In God’s definition of coveting in this part of Exodus, we can see that coveting always involves “your neighbor”, a person that you know. Additionally, the object that is coveted is something that “belongs to your neighbor." Are you guilty of coveting if you want to want a nice house or a nice car? No. But you are if you want your friend's mansion or your co-worker's Rolls-Royce.
One way we covet is through lust. But, again, it is possible to desire romance/marriage/sex without lusting. In 1 Corinthians 7:28, Paul says you're not sinning by marrying. And how can you marry without the desire for marriage?
As I understand it, there's four Hebrew root words that can be translated as “covet”:
1) finding something delightful, to want it
2) A great desire, craving
3) Jealousy
4) Chasing after (unjust) gain
Interestingly enough, God does all of these things, except chase after unjust gain. There 's nothing wrong with wanting something, delighting in something, or even yearning with tremendous longing — even if someone else has it.
I mean, think about the Israelites, wandering round and round in the desert, knowing that their destination is this Promised Land of milk and honey. Should they not have wished for anything other than an endless desertscape? Repress or kill all hope or dreams of life in a country of their own? If they weren't supposed to wish for the new state, well, why on the heck would God have told them about it in such rich detail? Was He just trying to tantalize them? LOL.
Often Christians define covetousness as the desire to have something that someone else has. In Greek, however, the term means "greedy desire." You're covetous if you desire something so much that you would sin in order to get it. I mean, it is possible to desire something that belongs to someone else, yet not be guilty of covetousness. Did you ever buy anything? Probably. Why did you buy it? Probably because you desired it. Did it belong to someone else? Yes, it belonged to whomever you bought it from. Are you guilty of covetousness any time you want something you see in a store?
Covetousness isn't just the desire for something that belongs to someone else. It is a greedy desire that grows out of thinking a man’s life consists of the things he possesses.
Can single folks who desire marriage be guilty of coveting marriage? Well, no, because the institution of marriage doesn't belong only to those who are married. It's not something that married folks can claim as belonging only to them and no one else. Marriage belongs to God. It was created and instituted by him for everyone to enjoy (1 Timothy 4:1-5). So we can't really covet marriage. But it is possible for me to covet Joe Schmoe's wife, certainly, because she belongs to him and only him.
How does Paul define idolatry? Colossians 3:5-6:“Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.” Is the "wrath of God’" that Paul speaks of here coming to punish the yearning for marriage? Is the desire for marriage immoral, impure, or evil? I would say no.
I've mentioned the examples of infertile women in the Bible yearning for children. Another example would be Zechariah, praying for a son even into his old age. When did God condemn him for covetousness and idolatry?
In Hebrews 4:12 we read that Only God can “judge the thoughts and the attitudes of the heart." Sometimes married Christians (or other single Christians) will try to judge the hearts of single folks who express the desire for marriage, but perhaps they should best reserve their judgments for sinful actions of ours they can actually see.
Exodus 20:17 gives examples, not a complete definition. The New Testament condemns greed (pleonexia) generally (Luke 12:15; Colossians 3:5; Ephesians 5:3). One can covet anything one lacks, not only what belongs to a neighbor.
The claim that covetousness exists only if you'd sin to obtain something is too narrow. James 1:14–15 and Matthew 5 show that inward desires can already be morally disordered before they produce outward acts. Marriage belongs to God, but so do children, work, and food. All can become idols when they become ultimate. The goodness of marriage does not make it immune from covetousness. Hannah, Sarah, and Zechariah desired good things, but Scripture praises their faith and surrender, not desire itself. Israel's longing for the Promised Land often became grumbling when they demanded God's gifts on their own terms.
1 Corinthians 7 and Philippians 4 teach believers to be content in their present calling. A desire that consistently destroys contentment may have become spiritually disordered, even if its object is good.Marriage itself cannot be sinful, but making it essential to one's identity, joy, or purpose can be. Idolatry is elevating a good thing into an ultimate thing.The choice is not simply "healthy desire" or "lusting after another's spouse." Desire exists on a spectrum: it can be healthy, excessive, obsessive, or idolatrous. The moral issue is whether the desire rules the heart.
It's not fine as much as a getting rich quick scheme is not fine. Even if you do quickly get rich, it will ruin you if you don't have the capacity to manage this sudden wealth, as the saying goes, "money is a good servant but a bad master." So is marriage when you're not ready for it and having nobody particular in mind.
I've reiterated this over and over again, romance and sex and marriage are all meaningless without an answer on romance and sex and marriage with WHOM. As long as you can't give a valid answer, these are all mere idols, and you're guilty of idolatry. "Fine" is your self deception.
So if I have the desire to get married one day, I'm guilty of greed. Sure. Where does the Bible make that connection?
Sure, you can turn the desire into an "idol." Doesn't mean everyone who desires marriage is doing that. How would you know, anyway? Are you a mind reader?
Also, the Bible doesn't condemn the desire for marriage. And you can content in something without being content with it. Remember, Paul doesn't say that you have to "content" with your singleness. He says if you're not content with singleness, then maybe you should get married. Paul does say that he, personally, is content with singleness, but he also says that not everyone is like that.
You say that pursuing marriage is not fine if you're not ready for it. I get that. But why bother getting ready for marriage, when, in your view, marriage is merely "theoretical" or whatever?
If you think the desire for marriage is an example of "greed," well, OK, that's rather novel. Paul doesn't accuse people who desire marriage of greed in his teaching about marriage Neither did Jesus in his. I guess they missed something? LOL. I haven't heard that from anyone but you.
"Marriage itself cannot be sinful, but making it essential to one's identity, joy, or purpose can be."
Just because you want to be married does not mean that you're making it essential to your "identity, joy, or purpose." But you seem to think this is inevitable if you desire marriage. I find that strange.
And what do mean by your "whom" question? Are you saying that it's somehow evil to have a general desire to be married one day? The only acceptable way to desire marriage is if you're dating or engaged or something? Where does the Bible say that?
Adam didn't ask God for a mate, God determined he needed a mate. You don't join yourself with anybody, God joins a man and a woman, Matt. 19:6.
And for the record, I've never used the term "evil", the only thing evil is coercing or manipulating another person to marry against their will, to satisfy your own "desire".
Feel free to desire whatever you like, but once again, man proposes, God disposes. You don't understand the "whom" question? Fine, go marry yourself or the concept of marriage.
So, if you want to get married, the Good Christian Thing To Do is to do nothing and wait for God to "poof" you a spouse? Where does the Bible explain that?
In 1 Corinthians 7:39, Paul says that a widow can marry whoever she wants, as long as they're a Christian. I guess he was wrong? The right answer as a widow is to wait for God to bring you a theoretical soulmate?
"The only thing evil is coercing or manipulating another person to marry against their will, to satisfy your own 'desire.' "
Uh, nobody here has suggested that particular course of action. Yikes.
Yes, God "poofed" Eve for Adam, He also "poofed" Rebecca for Abraham's chief servant, who went out to seek a bride for Isaac. So was the Midian priest's daughters to Moses. (Ex. 2:16)
"Can" is not "should" or "must". In the next verse Paul recommended her to stay single, "remain as she was". I guess he wasn't wrong, you were.
You had. You repeatedly promoted the 'desire" to get married, yet without any explanation on whom to marry and why anybody should marry you.
Hmm... I see where you're going with this. The entire dating thing is subtle coercion at different levels - people trying to get other people to do what they want, with various degrees of skill, energy and success.
Is that basically what you're saying?
Yes, God created a wife for Adam out of his rib. Obviously, God doesn't do that sort of thing anymore, haha. That was in Paradise. We are not in Paradise anymore.
If I'm sick and desire to be healed, am I guilty of "coveting" good health? Am I guilty of not being "grateful" enough to God for apparently making me sick? I don't understand your contention that the desire for marriage is somehow inherently a form of evil covetousness. Oh, well. So be it.
Sure, the desire for marriage can become an idol. But it's a good desire, for a good thing. I wouldn't be too quick to condemn people with that desire as idolators. Do you have the ability to read people's minds and hearts? No.
"Marriage belongs to God, but so do children, work, and food. All can become idols when they become ultimate." Sure. But I don't view it as "ultimate." Just because I'm putting effort into acquiring these things doesn't make me an idolator. I need to work, and I do need to get food. If I devote any level of effort into acquiring these things, is that bad? Am I guilty of "idolatry"? I should just sit back and let God do everything for me?
This sort of thing is just patronizing. "Remember, single folks.....Your Number One Priority is JESUS!" Hahaha! Oh, really? Wow. I didn't know that! What's my Number One Priority as a married person? Oh, right. Jesus. Hahaha! i mean, come on. That's just condescending. Even if it might not be meant that way.
Also, some thoughts on your commentary on 1 Corinthians 7:39: "" Can' is not 'should' or 'must'. In the next verse Paul recommended her to stay single, 'remain as she was.' I guess he wasn't wrong, you were." You do know the difference between a "recommendation" and a "command," right? Nowhere does Paul command people to stay single. He's making a recommendation and giving advice. He's also making a recommendation and giving advice to the members of the ancient church in Corinth, which was dealing with a lot of worldly trouble at the time. This trouble is one of the reasons he's recommending that they stay single. Remember, these epistles were letters that were written to contemporary churches. There's good stuff in there, but these letters were not originally written to us. I mean, in In 1 Corinthians 5:1 Paul condemns a man in the Corinthian church who is sleeping with his father's wife. I doubt you or I need to be reminded today that this sort of thing is bad. The Bible was written for us. It was not necessarily always written to us.
And, no, I never recommended coercing or manipulating someone into marrying you. Hahaha! Yikes.
"You repeatedly promoted the 'desire" to get married, yet without any explanation on whom to marry and why anybody should marry you." The answer that you personally seem to prefer to this particular question is "No modern-day Christian today should ever bother with marriage" (even though the Bible doesn't teach that) Great. Good for you. More power to you.
No, what I'm suggesting is recognition of God's will for you and submission to it. As I've repeatedly said, marriage itself is neutral, the quality of a marriage soly depends on the quality of the couple. You're vexed by your state of singleness, and you wanna get coupled up, ask yourself these - with WHOM to date, and eventually marry? For what purpose do you wanna marry? Are you ready and capable of a relationship, to share your body, mind and property? Will it benefit you or your potential partner? You "desire" of marriage, is it out of duty, love or lust? If there's nobody for you to date at all, what then? If there's somebody, but turns out of be an ungodly prick, will you settle and compromise, or ditch them and renew your pursuit, even if this might be your only shot at a relationship?
You see, there's no-one-size-fits-all recipe, but the no-one-size-fits-all reality is that we're all born as singles, singlehood is the DEFAULT status, marriage is a conscious CHOICE, and when you make that choice, you have to deal with all these practical concerns. If you "desire" marriage only because everybody else seems to have married which provokes your envy, or marriage to you is a license to sex, or somehow marriage makes you holier and closer to God, even though neither Paul nor Jesus or any other disciple commanded you to marry, then it's better to NOT get married, for your own sake and your potential partner's.
It's not good desire when your motive is tainted. The only good desire is desire for the kingdom of God, any worldly desire is for the crumbs fallen off the master's table. Again, "evil" is your own framing, it's a strong word I didn't use; such desire is inherently idolatrous, though, when deep down, your real motive is to keep up with your peers who get married, or to satisfy your own lust, without any respect of other person's own desire or consent. If that's not covetousness, I don't know what is. You insist it's not? OK, again, answer the WHOM and the WHY questions.
This is never a simple good or bad, black or white, biblical or unbiblical dichotomy, as long you treat it as a dichotomy, you'll never understand. You keep watering down the word of God to mere suggestions or recommendations, that this is merely a recommend not command, that is merely a recommend not command, bible is written "for us" not "to us", description not prescription, blah blah blah. Fine, but how about this -
"Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife."
Or this -
"But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery."
So here in unequivocal, definitive tone, divorce is absolutely off limit, you get married, you're bound to your partner for the rest of your life, till death do you part, literally, even if they abuse you, abandon you, steal from you or corrupt you; you're tired with your partner and you lay eyes on somebody else, you're guilty of adultery; and not only that, you no longer live for yourself and be responsible for your own actions, but also your spouse and their actions; husband must assert authority and domination, wife must be submissive and quiet, you don't measure up, you're a failure to God and your marriage's doomed; and above all these, modern industrial system generally rewards singleness and penalizes married couples by making life convenient, opening opportunities for the former, while making life INconvenient, reducing opportunities for the latter, marriage has changed from a social safety net to a heavy burden to bear, not just financially and socially, but also emotionally and bodily. Therefore, marriage is one of the most consequential decisions in your entire life, with great risks, Paul warned all of these "troubles in the flesh" to the Corinthians;
And yet you keep peddling the mere concept of marriage, you keep justifying the mere "desire" for marriage, none of these concerns seem to have even slightly crossed your mind, you can't even answer WHOM or WHY, and you have no idea what marriage really entails, what one would get themselves into, and you have the audacity to mock me who do raise these concerns? You see, when the disciples commented that it's better not to marry at all in Matt. 19:10, that's a reasonable, rational conclusion. Jesus didn't rebuke them, He simply told them that it's just the way of life for some people, you can't change your circumstance, accept it and be content with it.
"The only good desire is desire for the kingdom of God, any worldly desire is for the crumbs fallen off the master's table."
There's actually lots of good desires. If I want to stay healthy, or lose weight, or get an education, or improve at my career, etc., etc. those are are good and beneficial things. They're all worth doing. Of course, this is the part where you "remind" me that our Number One Priority is Jesus, I'm sure. Um, yes. I'm aware of that. Thanks. Hahaha. That doesn't mean we should just stop doing all the other things in life. Those things aren't inherently sinful. Neither is the search for romance or marriage.
'"Such desire is inherently idolatrous, though, when deep down, your real motive is to keep up with your peers who get married, or to satisfy your own lust, without any respect of other person's own desire or consent."
Many people have genuine desires for romance/marriage/sex. That's fine. The Bible doesn't condemn those desires. Although they can be fulfilled in sinful ways, certainly. And nowhere does the Bible condemn these desires as inherently idolatrous. I vaguely remember trying to make this point to you before, so I assume it won't be possible to convince of this simple truth. Oh, well.
You also mention that, for the person who desires marriage "your real motive is to keep up with your peers who get married, or to satisfy your own lust, without any respect of other person's own desire or consent." OK, how the heck would you know the "real motive" of the Christians who desire to get married? Are you a mind reader? Maybe try to actually talk to people and get to know them before rushing to judgment. You also mention that people might be getting married to satisfy their own lust. This is interesting. In 1 Corinthians 7, Paul mentions people who "burn with passion" and he says that it's actually "better" for people like that to marry than to burn with passion. And it's not necessarily "lust" to simply have strong sexual desires. Though we can certainly fulfill these desires in sinful ways.
You mention the following biblical command: ""Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife."
This command has to do with divorce between married people. It has nothing to do with never-married single people who are deciding whether or not to marry. Nowhere in 1 Corinthians 7 does Paul command people to either stay single or to marry.
You also mention another biblical command: "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery."
This command also deals with divorce. It has nothing to do with never-married single people who are deciding whether or not to marry.
Show me one verse in the New Testament where Christians of every era are commanded to stay single forever.
I thought I answered your "who" and "why" questions, but, admittedly, I'm finding this line of inquiry a little hard to understand. What do you mean by those, again? Are you wondering about who a Christian is allowed to marry? Because the answer to that is another Christian.
"You see, when the disciples commented that it's better not to marry at all in Matt. 19:10, that's a reasonable, rational conclusion. Jesus didn't rebuke them, He simply told them that it's just the way of life for some people, you can't change your circumstance, accept it and be content with it."
Not to be snarky, but I find it interesting that you (correctly) say that Jesus told his disciples that celibacy is the way of life for "some people." Oh. So it's "some people." I thought it was better for all people? Also, Jesus said that not everyone is able to accept the calling of lifelong celibacy.
I didn't mean to mock you at all, sorry if it came off that way.
Show me one verse in the entire bible where anyone in any era is commanded to marry. And I never preached that everyone must stay single, desire marriage or anything as you want. What you want and desire is one thing, what God wants and desires is another, the final outcome is up to the Lord. I won't go through this again.
Where is this other Christian, how do you even know they're really Christian, and why should they marry you? Do you follow Christ for Him, or for Him to match you up with a partner?
Desires for romance/marriage/sex is neither genuine nor fine, when it's out of your lust. Genuine desires lead to a companionship and then a friendship, the probability of marriage is slowly developed over years of cultivation. If you directly desire for marriage, then the only motive is lust, since marriage herein serves as a license for sex, a container of burning passion, again, with no respect for your partner, you're simply using her flesh to satisfy your own flesh, then for your partner's wellbeing, leave her alone.
Alright, you don't accept, what then? Good luck with the dating apps, including "Christian" ones, lol. Don't you have anything better to do? I don't know about you, man, I simply have no time or energy for such folly. The only thing "fine" is the flour I use to bake bread.
I did mean to mock you, though. Your "anothe Christian" is purely imaginary, not only do you presume the existence of such a person, but also her consent and willingness to share the rest of her life with you, whom she knows little or nothing about; and you still fail to explain "why", if not to keep up with your peers.