The Beatitudes: Christ Magnifying the Law

[Dino246]

See post 36, as for circumcision I agree with Paul that circumcision is not required for Gentiles because it was the physical sign of God's covenant with Abraham and his descendants, not a universal command for all nations. Even in the Old Testament, God showed that what truly mattered was not the flesh but the heart.

And Jehovah thy God will circumcise thy heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love Jehovah thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. (Deuteronomy 30:6 ASV)

Jesus never commanded Gentiles to be circumcised. Instead, He told His disciples to teach all nations to obey everything He had commanded (Matthew 28:19-20). When the question arose in the early church, the apostles, guided by the Holy Spirit, decided not to require circumcision for Gentile believers (Acts 15:28-29).

Circumcision was a covenant sign for Abraham's descendants, while the New Covenant emphasizes a transformed heart that loves and obeys God. The outward sign is no longer required, but the inward reality it pointed to remains essential.

You aren't helping your case. Your question is this:

"Can the Holy Spirit lead someone to teach against what God previously commanded?"

You state here that the Holy Spirit did in fact teach (guide) against what God previously commanded. Unless you forgot, Abraham was a gentile.

The answer to your question is therefore Yes.

 

[2Christ]

You aren't helping your case. Your question is this:

"Can the Holy Spirit lead someone to teach against what God previously commanded?"

You state here that the Holy Spirit did in fact teach (guide) against what God previously commanded. Unless you forgot, Abraham was a gentile.

The answer to your question is therefore Yes.

MY case? who do you think you are?

You look for trouble and know I did not say the Holy spirit teaches against God, you twist what I said.

this is what I said about this question as it appeared in post 36? The answer from Scripture is no.

Why would I answer you from now on? No respect No more answers. = Ignore button

BYE BYE DINO!

 

[Dino246]

MY case? who do you think you are?

You look for trouble and know I did not say the Holy spirit teaches against God, you twist what I said.

this is what I said about this question as it appeared in post 36? The answer from Scripture is no.

Why would I answer you from now on? No respect No more answers. = Ignore button

BYE BYE DINO!

You confuse disagreement with disrespect. I quoted you accurately, and nothing that I wrote was disrespectful.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

You confuse disagreement with disrespect. I quoted you accurately, and nothing that I wrote was disrespectful.

You quoted him, but misrepresented the meaning of his rhetorical question. It IS disrespectful:

You aren't helping your case. Your question is this:

"Can the Holy Spirit lead someone to teach against what God previously commanded?"

You state here that the Holy Spirit did in fact teach (guide) against what God previously commanded. Unless you forgot, Abraham was a gentile.

The answer to your question is therefore Yes.

I don't know what is going on with this forum, but Christians trying to misrepresent what other people say so they might shut up or turn others from listening to them is not cool. Jesus would NEVER do that.

If you don't want to obey God, just say so. Or ignore those posts. Everyone else does.

Otherwise, you're just heaping up more bad consequences for yourself.

 

[Dino246]

You quoted him, but misrepresented the meaning of his rhetorical question. It IS disrespectful:

Given that I quoted his exact words, there was no misrepresentation and no disrespect.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Given that I quoted his exact words, there was no misrepresentation and no disrespect.

Of course you'd say that. Accept the consequences then.

 

[Dino246]

Of course you'd say that. Accept the consequences then.

Yawn.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

MY case? who do you think you are?

You look for trouble and know I did not say the Holy spirit teaches against God, you twist what I said.

this is what I said about this question as it appeared in post 36? The answer from Scripture is no.

Why would I answer you from now on? No respect No more answers. = Ignore button

BYE BYE DINO!

I'm sorry you had to go through that. It is right for you to clarify the meaning behind your question after he misrepresented it.

In the last days, the Bible said:

2 Timothy 3:1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come

...

2 Timothy 3:12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

Keep your eyes on God and He'll keep you safe through the persecution and the false accusations.

 

[rewriter]

A question every Christian should ask is this: Can the Holy Spirit lead someone to teach against what God previously commanded?

The answer from Scripture is no.

God warned Israel that even if a prophet performed signs and wonders, if he taught people to depart from God's commandments, he was to be rejected.

If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams... saying, Let us go after other gods... thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet... (Deuteronomy 13:1-3, ASV)

Likewise, God said:

The prophet, that shall speak a word presumptuously in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak... that same prophet shall die. (Deuteronomy 18:20, ASV)

Jesus gave the same warning:

Beware of false prophets... By their fruits ye shall know them. (Matthew 7:15-20, ASV)

And He also said:

Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17, ASV)

So when Paul speaks of "freedom" in 2 Corinthians 3:17, it cannot mean freedom from obeying God or freedom to disregard His commandments, because that would place Paul in direct opposition to both Moses and Christ. The freedom is from the veil over the heart, from spiritual blindness, and from the condemnation that comes through sin. It is the freedom to finally understand Moses correctly because he points to Christ. The Holy Spirit never leads people away from God's commandments; He leads them into their true meaning, just as Jesus taught. if you continue to think so you are in trouble with God I assure you and will not warn you again.

The problem is clear though from the OT. There were ample false prophets who could convince people that they were prophets presumably by what they could do as the OT also indicates that prophets ere capable of performing miracles, but likely they also believed that they were speaking under the authority of the HS. By what standards do those who claim the inspiration of the HS back up their claims today? How does one clearly distinguish what the HS says from what is being whispered by some other spirit, or our own desires/ego.

 

[Aaron56]

A question every Christian should ask is this: Can the Holy Spirit lead someone to teach against what God previously commanded?

The answer from Scripture is no.

“If the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, he must bring to the Lord a young bull without defect as a sin offering for the sin he has committed. 4 He is to present the bull at the entrance to the tent of meeting before the Lord. He is to lay his hand on its head and slaughter it there before the Lord.”

And then later…

“5Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Your love for Sinai, the ministry of sin and death, makes you blind to simple Biblical truths.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

The problem is clear though from the OT. There were ample false prophets who could convince people that they were prophets presumably by what they could do as the OT also indicates that prophets ere capable of performing miracles, but likely they also believed that they were speaking under the authority of the HS. By what standards do those who claim the inspiration of the HS back up their claims today? How does one clearly distinguish what the HS says from what is being whispered by some other spirit, or our own desires/ego.

There's no new messages from God so we have the Bible and the Holy Spirit to help us to know what is from God and what isn't.

That means we have to stick close to God and the Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truth. In light of that, know His voice and know what the Bible says so that you can distinguish truth from lies.

 

[Aaron56]

I don't know what is going on with this forum, but Christians trying to misrepresent what other people say so they might shut up or turn others from listening to them is not cool. Jesus would NEVER do that.

The money changers in the temple probably thought they were doing just fine.
Until…

 

[Dino246]

I'm sorry you had to go through that. It is right for you to clarify the meaning behind your question after he misrepresented it.

You both claim that I “misrepresented” 2Christ’s words, despite my quoting them exactly and addressing the exact assertion that he raised, with Scripture to back up my challenge.

So it looks to me like you have a weird concept of “misrepresenting”.

I invite you both to explain—in detail—what you think the problem is.

 

[Dino246]

There's no new messages from God so we have the Bible and the Holy Spirit to help us to know what is from God and what isn't.

While there are no additions to Scripture, God still speaks to His people outside of Scripture.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

The money changers in the temple probably thought they were doing just fine.
Until…

Good grief....these really are the last days...

 

[Dino246]

Good grief....these really are the last days...

Rhetoric without clear explanation of the issue you see is just noisy clanging. Either step up with relevant and meaningful posts or get out of the thread.

 

[rewriter]

There's no new messages from God so we have the Bible and the Holy Spirit to help us to know what is from God and what isn't.

That means we have to stick close to God and the Holy Spirit who will guide us into all truth. In light of that, know His voice and know what the Bible says so that you can distinguish truth from lies.

First, I know of no Protestant church that has officially stated that the canon is closed, thus leaving the door open for new revelations.

Second, you have not addressed how we can know if someone is listening to the HS or something else, including HUMAN tradition. The Pharisees and false prophets from the OT all seem to have followed existent traditions while, at least for the false prophets, claiming inspiriation, how many "enlightened" modern Christians spout what is established by tradition while claiming inspiration from the HS.

Thus, how precisely can one distinguish? I have heard supposedly knowledgeable teachers and preachers proclaim that signs that are associated with the demonic as being signs that the HS is working. Ignorance of how to recognize symptoms of demonic presence does not mean that demonic presence is not a real issue.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

First, I know of no Protestant church that has officially stated that the canon is closed, thus leaving the door open for new revelations.

Second, you have not addressed how we can know if someone is listening to the HS or something else, including HUMAN tradition. The Pharisees and false prophets from the OT all seem to have followed existent traditions while, at least for the false prophets, claiming inspiriation, how many "enlightened" modern Christians spout what is established by tradition while claiming inspiration from the HS.

Thus, how precisely can one distinguish? I have heard supposedly knowledgeable teachers and preachers proclaim that signs that are associated with the demonic as being signs that the HS is working. Ignorance of how to recognize symptoms of demonic presence does not mean that demonic presence is not a real issue.

We are all each responsible to God for how we listen to Him. So don't worry about anyone else. Make sure you submit to the Holy Spirit and study the Bible with him. If you really want to know God and His voice, and want to learn to be lead by the Holy Spirit, He will see that and help you.

When you know God and His voice, the leading of the Holy Spirit and what it says in the Bible, no one can fool you because God will always guide you in truth and warn and/or discourage you from following what is false.

 

[rewriter]

We are all each responsible to God for how we listen to Him. So don't worry about anyone else. Make sure you submit to the Holy Spirit and study the Bible with him. If you really want to know God and His voice, and want to learn to be lead by the Holy Spirit, He will see that and help you.

When you know God and His voice, the leading of the Holy Spirit and what it says in the Bible, no one can fool you because God will always guide you in truth and warn and/or discourage you from following what is false.

You are assuming that I do not know the guidance. I have sufficient gifts from the HS that such an assumption is likely incorrect.

 

[Mem]

First, I know of no Protestant church that has officially stated that the canon is closed, thus leaving the door open for new revelations.

Second, you have not addressed how we can know if someone is listening to the HS or something else, including HUMAN tradition. The Pharisees and false prophets from the OT all seem to have followed existent traditions while, at least for the false prophets, claiming inspiriation, how many "enlightened" modern Christians spout what is established by tradition while claiming inspiration from the HS.

Thus, how precisely can one distinguish? I have heard supposedly knowledgeable teachers and preachers proclaim that signs that are associated with the demonic as being signs that the HS is working. Ignorance of how to recognize symptoms of demonic presence does not mean that demonic presence is not a real issue.

The demonic presents itself as an angel of light so we have to become adept at 'spotting' flicker of dimness. And if it comes wearing a crown, we have to be able to detect the gold plating. Because of its soft yet structurally resilient property that allows it to flatten, bend, or change shape without bending, prospectors would bite into gold to test its authenticity, and jewelers have concern for its genuineness, or declared purity. That is, whether it's free from tampering or adulteration and that it has not been altered or filled with other metals.
With concern to the Holy Spirit, we have the fruits of the Spirit to "check' by. Kindness, patience, joy, love, peace, gentleness... so that if you see a glint of unkindness, then you can conclude there is at least some residual lint clinging along for the ride from the proverbial laundromat.

For instance, if you can determine whether love is kind if it sees right to force itself on you, then you can distinguish whether it is true love or just gold plating.