Calvinism is Gospel !

[awelight]

The OP states that Calvinism--apparently referring to the TULIP doctrine--is the Gospel, and that it will defend Calvinism by showing that Calvinism is the Gospel, which is necessary because its detractors criticize it as a perversion of the Gospel. However, the defense is not presented, so the criticism remains: Tulip perverts the Gospel by denying, ignoring or contradicting Scriptures teaching that God loves the world, wants everyone to be saved, and does not show favoritism, such as John 3:16, 1Tim. 2:3-4 and Rom. 2:11.

As to John 3:16 - it would help you a lot, if you would remember, that this verse is just one of many in this ongoing conversation with Nicodemus. The entire conversation goes from verse 3 to verse 21. You can't cherry pick verse 16 and ignore the rest. Our Lord explains to Nicodemus, (Who should have known these things), that one has to be born from above in order to perceive and enter the the Kingdom of God. (Verses 3-10) He confirms, that whosoever is believing in Him, has been born from above. (Verse 8) He tells Nicodemus: "I told you terrestrial things and you did not believe, how could you possibly believe if I told you heavenly things?" (verses 11-13: The need for the new birth being emphasized.). Verses 14 and 15, will fulfill the foreshadowed event from the OT.

Verses 16 and 17 must be seen as one complete thought. God expressed His love for the world by sending His Son to redeem those the Father gave to the Son, from all eternity. (John 6:37; 10:29) This purchased for all of humanity time because as verse 17 states, He did not send the Son, this time, to condemn the world, rather, He sent Him to finish the work of salvation.

Verses 18-20, explains how fallen man hates the light because mans deeds are evil continuously and will not come to the light because if he did, they would be exposed. Verse 21 - is the good news. For all that do come to the light, they are wrought of God. What is this old English word wrought? It means: fashioned, created or work. John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought (created - fashioned) by God. So we started with what God does in the new birth and finished here, with the deeds of believers which are the creation of God as well. Php_2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

1 Tim. 2:3 & 4 - You are referring to the word "all" in this verse. The "all" in the English language can have two specific meanings but can be used about seven different ways. The two specific meanings have one similarity and that is, that they both mean "totality". It therefore, can mean total in number or group. It can also mean, total in type or manner. In the case of it's usage in 1 Timothy 2:4, it means "all types" or "all manner of" men. This is distinguished by the context of verses 1 and 2. The writer is discussing prayer for Kings and men in authority - all manner of men. What are we praying for? Verse 2b - ..that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. Verse 3 - then tells us this is what's - good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

 

[awelight]

It is called hermeneutics, of course we know Calvinists only follow the rules when required and this why Calvinism makes a contradictory mess of scripture.

Well one day the Lord may open your mind to spiritual discernment. Of course, it might have helped also, if you had actually taken the time to read and ponder upon what is said before giving answer.

 

[awelight]

A. It is true that a person who is still living in bondage to their carnal mind will resist the gospel, the testimony of Christ's life, and even the influence of the Holy Spirit. However, that does not mean this situation cannot be changed.
B. In fact, Paul's goal as an Apostolic evangelist was to do just that
C. He tells us that we, the saints, have access to God's supernatural power that can accomplish this:

3 For though we live in the flesh, we do not wage war according to the flesh.
4 The weapons of our warfare are not the weapons of the world. Instead, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
5 We tear down arguments and every presumption set up against the knowledge of God; and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.…(2 Corinthians 10:3-5)

D. Paul shows us here that the work of bringing those who walk in darkness into the light is a titanic struggle.
E. However, it does not depend soley on us
F. God has equipped us to do this by giving us access to His throne to receive His mercy and help
G. He has also given us the immediate presence of the Holy Spirit who is our Helper

H. The drawing of the Holy Spirit is certainly necessary in bringing people to repent of sin and believe in Christ.
Jesus also said that once He had been "lifted up" on the cross He would commence drawing all men to Himself (John 12:32).

I. The Greek term for DRAW is helkó (ἕλκω) which can have a range of force. When it comes to inanimate objects the external force completely dominates and takes on the meaning DRAG. The same can be said for when Peter DREW ashore the heavy load of fish or when Paul and Silas were SEIZED by force and DRAGGED into the marketplace.

J. On the other end of the scale of force we have the gentle influence that impels with little to no external force. In this case, the same word helkó can be understood as IMPELLING, a gentle swaying towards an objective. This is the way we understand God to draw human souls to Himself. He does not drive or drag sheep. He guides and leads them. This shows how wrong Augustine's attitude was about the nature of God. He interpreted the scripture about the Master COMPELLING the destitute to join the feast as dragging people to attend Church by force.

Okay... I am confused. Your reply was somewhat interesting, with some good points; however, what does this have to do with man's inability, on his own, to come to Christ? You stated that you didn't believe in man's inability in a previous post, so I gave you three verses to prove otherwise. Your A-J response, has nothing to do with that subject.

 

[brightfame52]

No need. The meaning of Rom. 9:14-15 and 2:5-16 in context is obvious to those who have eyes to see:
God will have mercy on those who have faith in Christ, and those who ignore or pervert that Gospel will experience just wrath.

You confirmed what I already stated, you dont want to work, you just want round up a bunch of verses and shove them in somebody's face and demand them to work through them

 

[brightfame52]

TULIP makes the drawing of God overpowering and irresistible.

That the term "draw" means (to the Calvinist I have listened to) is like a fisherman dragging in fish in a net.

Yet?
We find this in Scripture Jeremiah 31:3 to counter that interpretation...

​

The Lord appeared to us in the past, saying:​

“I have loved you with an everlasting love;​

I have drawn you with unfailing kindness.​

......

Im in total agreement with Jer 31:3

 

[brightfame52]

Address the article your boy wrote

Rabbit trail, face the facts Tulip is the Gospel

 

[Roger316]

The OP states that Calvinism--apparently referring to the TULIP doctrine--is the Gospel, and that it will defend Calvinism by showing that Calvinism is the Gospel, which is necessary because its detractors criticize it as a perversion of the Gospel. However, the defense is not presented, so the criticism remains: Tulip perverts the Gospel by denying, ignoring or contradicting Scriptures teaching that God loves the world, wants everyone to be saved, and does not show favoritism, such as John 3:16, 1Tim. 2:3-4 and Rom. 2:11.

The thing is , , , If God wanted to save everyone he would. Think about it. According to Jesus, a person is saved when God causes them to be born again. And he can do this for anyone, anywhere, and at any time.

 

[GWH]

As to John 3:16 - it would help you a lot, if you would remember, that this verse is just one of many in this ongoing conversation with Nicodemus. The entire conversation goes from verse 3 to verse 21. You can't cherry pick verse 16 and ignore the rest. Our Lord explains to Nicodemus, (Who should have known these things), that one has to be born from above in order to perceive and enter the the Kingdom of God. (Verses 3-10) He confirms, that whosoever is believing in Him, has been born from above. (Verse 8) He tells Nicodemus: "I told you terrestrial things and you did not believe, how could you possibly believe if I told you heavenly things?" (verses 11-13: The need for the new birth being emphasized.). Verses 14 and 15, will fulfill the foreshadowed event from the OT.

Verses 16 and 17 must be seen as one complete thought. God expressed His love for the world by sending His Son to redeem those the Father gave to the Son, from all eternity. (John 6:37; 10:29) This purchased for all of humanity time because as verse 17 states, He did not send the Son, this time, to condemn the world, rather, He sent Him to finish the work of salvation.

Verses 18-20, explains how fallen man hates the light because mans deeds are evil continuously and will not come to the light because if he did, they would be exposed. Verse 21 - is the good news. For all that do come to the light, they are wrought of God. What is this old English word wrought? It means: fashioned, created or work. John 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought (created - fashioned) by God. So we started with what God does in the new birth and finished here, with the deeds of believers which are the creation of God as well. Php_2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

1 Tim. 2:3 & 4 - You are referring to the word "all" in this verse. The "all" in the English language can have two specific meanings but can be used about seven different ways. The two specific meanings have one similarity and that is, that they both mean "totality". It therefore, can mean total in number or group. It can also mean, total in type or manner. In the case of it's usage in 1 Timothy 2:4, it means "all types" or "all manner of" men. This is distinguished by the context of verses 1 and 2. The writer is discussing prayer for Kings and men in authority - all manner of men. What are we praying for? Verse 2b - ..that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. Verse 3 - then tells us this is what's - good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

Rid yourself of the tulip pretzel mold and accept the plain meaning of John 3:3-21: God loves everyone in the world and whosoever believes in Jesus as Messiah is reborn spiritually/receives the HS and will be resurrected to heaven. 1Tim. 2:3-4 means the same; "all" means "world".

 

[brightfame52]

Calvinism is the Gospel for its doctrines of Grace :

What must be understood is the fact that grace in salvation reveals the Sovereignty of God, His choice of man, His saving a man, etc. Grace reveals what God has done, not what He has allegedly enabled a man to do. Grace points to God only, not God and man. https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone-35

Tulip are those Grace Doctrines which show why and how Salvation is all of Grace. And quite frankly, man we naturally rebel against such Doctrines, 51

 

[GWH]

Calvinism is the Gospel for its doctrines of Grace :



Tulip are those Grace Doctrines which show why and how Salvation is all of Grace. And quite frankly, man we naturally rebel against such Doctrines, 51

Tulip teaches God is NOT gracious, omniloving and just, but rather that God does NOT love the world, does NOT want everyone to be saved, and DOES show favoritism, contradicting GW in John 3:16, 1Tim. 2:3-4 and Rom. 2:11.
Thus, it is anti-Gospel heresy; believe at your own risk (Gal. 1:6-9)!

 

[brightfame52]

Tulip teaches God is NOT gracious, omniloving and just, but rather that God does NOT love the world, does NOT want everyone to be saved, and DOES show favoritism, contradicting GW in John 3:16, 1Tim. 2:3-4 and Rom. 2:11.
Thus, it is anti-Gospel heresy; believe at your own risk (Gal. 1:6-9)!

Your emotional outburst does not alter the explicit text of God's Word. You accuse the Doctrines of Grace (TULIP) of portraying God as unloving and unjust, but your quarrel is actually with the Apostle Paul, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ. Let's look at how your accusations collapse under biblical scrutiny: [1]

1. The Accusation of "Favoritism" (Romans 2:11)

You quote Romans 2:11 ("For there is no respect of persons with God") to argue that sovereign election is heresy. You completely misunderstand the meaning of "partiality" or "respect of persons" (prosōpolēmpsia). [1, 2]

• In Greek culture and biblical syntax, "respect of persons" means judging someone based on external, earthly privileges—such as their wealth, social status, nationality, or ethnic heritage. Paul is telling the Jews that God does not favor them over Gentiles just because they have circumcision.
• Unconditional Election is the exact opposite of favoritism! If God chose people based on their good works, their choices, or their faith-performance, that would be favoritism. High Calvinism teaches that God looks at the entire fallen race, sees absolutely nothing good or distinct in anyone (Romans 3:10-12), and chooses specific individuals based entirely on "the good pleasure of his will" (Ephesians 1:5), completely apart from anything they are or do. [1, 2, 3, 4]

2. The Reality of Restrictive Desire (1 Timothy 2:3-4)

You throw out 1 Timothy 2:3-4 ("who will have all men to be saved") thinking it means every individual person without exception. If God desires every single individual person to be saved, and God is all-powerful, then why isn't everyone saved?

• Your theology invents a defeated, helpless God who sits in heaven wishing and hoping that sinful man will let Him save them.
• As any basic reading of the Greek text and context shows, the phrase "all men" (pantas anthrōpous) means all kinds and classes of men. Paul explicitly states this in the opening verses of the chapter: we must pray for "kings, and for all that are in authority" (1 Timothy 2:2). Paul is telling the young church that the gospel is not just for the poor or for the Jews, but for all classes of people, high and low alike. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

3. The Sovereign Discriminating Love of God (Romans 9)

You claim that TULIP is an "anti-Gospel heresy" because it teaches God does not love everyone with a saving love. Yet, you completely run away from the explicit, black-and-white text of Romans 9:11-15: [1, 2]

• "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth... As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." [1, 2, 3, 4]
• Paul anticipates your exact emotional objection in verse 14: "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God?" And what is the Holy Spirit's answer? "God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." [1, 2, 3]

4. The Irony of Your Galatians 1 Curse

You invoke the terrifying curse of Galatians 1:6-9 against TULIP. Let's look in the mirror: What is the false gospel Paul curses in Galatians? It is the gospel of the Judaizers, who taught that Christ's work on the cross was not enough, and that human performance and law-keeping must be added to inherit eternal life.

• My Gospel: Salvation is 100% of God. Christ successfully bought, paid for, legally justified, and sovereignly regenerated His elect from start to finish + nothing. All glory goes to God alone (Jonah 2:9). [1, 2, 3]
• Your Gospel: Salvation depends on man’s free will to accept an offer, man's independent ability to generate faith, and man's flawless commandment-keeping to stay saved. [1, 2]

Your system makes man his own co-savior, which is the exact definition of the legalistic heresy cursed in Galatians. TULIP does not deny God's grace; it is the only system that protects it from being corrupted by human pride! [1, 2]

---

 

[GWH]

Your emotional outburst does not alter the explicit text of God's Word. You accuse the Doctrines of Grace (TULIP) of portraying God as unloving and unjust, but your quarrel is actually with the Apostle Paul, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ. Let's look at how your accusations collapse under biblical scrutiny: [1]

1. The Accusation of "Favoritism" (Romans 2:11)

You quote Romans 2:11 ("For there is no respect of persons with God") to argue that sovereign election is heresy. You completely misunderstand the meaning of "partiality" or "respect of persons" (prosōpolēmpsia). [1, 2]

• In Greek culture and biblical syntax, "respect of persons" means judging someone based on external, earthly privileges—such as their wealth, social status, nationality, or ethnic heritage. Paul is telling the Jews that God does not favor them over Gentiles just because they have circumcision.
• Unconditional Election is the exact opposite of favoritism! If God chose people based on their good works, their choices, or their faith-performance, that would be favoritism. High Calvinism teaches that God looks at the entire fallen race, sees absolutely nothing good or distinct in anyone (Romans 3:10-12), and chooses specific individuals based entirely on "the good pleasure of his will" (Ephesians 1:5), completely apart from anything they are or do. [1, 2, 3, 4]

2. The Reality of Restrictive Desire (1 Timothy 2:3-4)

You throw out 1 Timothy 2:3-4 ("who will have all men to be saved") thinking it means every individual person without exception. If God desires every single individual person to be saved, and God is all-powerful, then why isn't everyone saved?

• Your theology invents a defeated, helpless God who sits in heaven wishing and hoping that sinful man will let Him save them.
• As any basic reading of the Greek text and context shows, the phrase "all men" (pantas anthrōpous) means all kinds and classes of men. Paul explicitly states this in the opening verses of the chapter: we must pray for "kings, and for all that are in authority" (1 Timothy 2:2). Paul is telling the young church that the gospel is not just for the poor or for the Jews, but for all classes of people, high and low alike. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

3. The Sovereign Discriminating Love of God (Romans 9)

You claim that TULIP is an "anti-Gospel heresy" because it teaches God does not love everyone with a saving love. Yet, you completely run away from the explicit, black-and-white text of Romans 9:11-15: [1, 2]

• "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth... As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." [1, 2, 3, 4]
• Paul anticipates your exact emotional objection in verse 14: "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God?" And what is the Holy Spirit's answer? "God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." [1, 2, 3]

4. The Irony of Your Galatians 1 Curse

You invoke the terrifying curse of Galatians 1:6-9 against TULIP. Let's look in the mirror: What is the false gospel Paul curses in Galatians? It is the gospel of the Judaizers, who taught that Christ's work on the cross was not enough, and that human performance and law-keeping must be added to inherit eternal life.

• My Gospel: Salvation is 100% of God. Christ successfully bought, paid for, legally justified, and sovereignly regenerated His elect from start to finish + nothing. All glory goes to God alone (Jonah 2:9). [1, 2, 3]
• Your Gospel: Salvation depends on man’s free will to accept an offer, man's independent ability to generate faith, and man's flawless commandment-keeping to stay saved. [1, 2]

Your system makes man his own co-savior, which is the exact definition of the legalistic heresy cursed in Galatians. TULIP does not deny God's grace; it is the only system that protects it from being corrupted by human pride! [1, 2]

---

You project YOUR emotional attachment to the tulip pretzel, because your rant did not refute the truth of what I posted:

Tulip teaches God is NOT gracious, omniloving and just, but rather that God does NOT love the world, does NOT want everyone to be saved, and DOES show favoritism, contradicting GW in John 3:16, 1Tim. 2:3-4 and Rom. 2:11.
Thus, it is anti-Gospel heresy; believe at your own risk (Gal. 1:6-9)!

 

[brightfame52]

You project YOUR emotional attachment to the tulip pretzel, because your rant did not refute the truth of what I posted:

Tulip teaches God is NOT gracious, omniloving and just, but rather that God does NOT love the world, does NOT want everyone to be saved, and DOES show favoritism, contradicting GW in John 3:16, 1Tim. 2:3-4 and Rom. 2:11.
Thus, it is anti-Gospel heresy; believe at your own risk (Gal. 1:6-9)!

This has been addressed, and to be expected, you have ignored it.

 

[Roger316]

Rid yourself of the tulip pretzel mold and accept the plain meaning of John 3:3-21: God loves everyone in the world and whosoever believes in Jesus as Messiah is reborn spiritually/receives the HS and will be resurrected to heaven. 1Tim. 2:3-4 means the same; "all" means "world".

In 1Timothy, Paul's use of the term "all" refers to "all kinds of people," not "each and every person." Paul is addressing the issue of leaders and rulers to say that God is saving even those who might oppress you or take advantage of you. Pray for them also.

 

[HeIsHere]

Well one day the Lord may open your mind to spiritual discernment. Of course, it might have helped also, if you had actually taken the time to read and ponder upon what is said before giving answer.

The god of "unconditional election for salvation" while others are left with no ability to respond positively in this new covenant does not exist.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (KJV).

Full Stop.

 

[pinebeach]

Rabbit trail, face the facts Tulip is the Gospel

Says who? That is a very immature response but a good indicator that you were not aware of your prophet's deviation from well established and factual biblical exegesis. My point being that if a person spawns all of this literature about Calvinism, supposedly gleaned from scripture, yet misses one of the most salient and crucial determinations of the royal lineage of Christ with reference to
human progeny, then the rest of what he has to say should be suspect.

I would repeat that, but that won't change the mind of anyone captured by deception and happy about it. A person cannot be deceived in such grave error unless they have already laid the foundation and paved over the road of their errors. There are multiple reasons why scripture shows us the true path to understanding and receiving of truth, not of mankind, is to renew our minds according to the word.

That would, in it's most basic form, mean that a person is in agreement with God and not some dictatorial liar or false prophet.

 

[pinebeach]

Well one day the Lord may open your mind to spiritual discernment. Of course, it might have helped also, if you had actually taken the time to read and ponder upon what is said before giving answer.

A fine example of the pompous and self righteous supporter of false doctrine as ever there was. You are the one that is derelict in both understanding, according to the biblical definition, and may totally be missing discernment, both as a spiritual gift and as learned in life in generality.

God does not fit the human definition of understanding and He does not insult unless a person believes themself to be superior to Him because of their lack of belief in how He has revealed Himself in scripture.

I am left with the following as spoken by the true prophet of God Isaiah

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

That sums up most of the blather in this thread.

 

[Mem]

I researched the edibility of tulips and found that while the petals and bulbs indeed are, the "bitter yellow core must be removed, as it is toxic and can cause stomach upset."

The Gospel reduced to the novelty of a tulip, Good Lord, what has become of the Word?

 

[pinebeach]

Tulip are those Grace Doctrines which show why and how Salvation is all of Grace. And quite frankly, man we naturally rebel against such Doctrines, 51

Of course we rebel against the tulip doctrines of 'grace' for it is no grace at all. It is the leering face of the devil seeking to deceive as he has always done. We accept the grace of God through our Lord Jesus Christ and call Him Redeemer, Savior and even Friend.

He is the true light and the true gospel and those IN Him know this to be true and totally reject the lies of the false ideal of calvinism as the gospel.

 

[Mem]

I researched the edibility of tulips and found that while the petals and bulbs indeed are, the "bitter yellow core must be removed, as it is toxic and can cause stomach upset."

The Gospel reduced to the novelty of a tulip, Good Lord, what has become of the Word?

Was Calvin consciously looking for a tulip in the Gospel or was he like, "Oh look! I found a tulip!" and plucked it out and ran with it to his mother to press between the pages of her Bible?