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This is not a chide, but rather...I want to make sure I was clear...so, did you read my original post? The 144k are saved after the Church is removed before the Tribulation. However, they are saved via the same person and mechanism (Christ's substitutionary death) as you and I...saved by Grace, through Faith, and that not of ourselves.... We humans do not dictate to God how he brings people to His Son. We read scripture, attempt to understand what God is doing, but we leave the saving business up to Him.
Scripture will not contradict itself. God will not contradict scripture, the ver word of God.

Jesus said "no one can get to the father except through me. "

One can't be saved unless Jesus is their Lord.

Please follow true teaching.
 
Before attacking @BetterCallPsalms do some real research, you have no clue concerning the Geo-politics/Economics of the near east. Have you ever read any in-depth analysis of any of the peace negotiations, no you say, yes that is obvious.

With regards to the dating of the Book of Revelation...

Internal evidence makes it clear that the book was written prior to 70 AD.

The statement by Iranaeus is not without controversy and open to interpretation.

Your appeal to Clement of Alexandria does not support a later dating either.

This quote Clement of Alexandria (150-220 AD), once again assumed into the text as to who the tyrant is.

"And to give you confidence, when you have thus truly repented, that there remains for you a trustworthy hope of salvation, hear a story that is no mere story, but a true account of John the apostle that has been handed down and preserved in memory. When after the death of the tyrant he removed from the island of Patmos to Ephesus, he used to journey by request to the neighboring districts of the Gentiles, in some places to appoint bishops, in others to regulate whole churches, in others to set among the clergy some one man, it may be, of those indicated by the Spirit.
(“Who is the Rich Man that shall be Saved?”, Section 42)"

_________________________

There remain several other historical sources worth noting that attest to a pre-70 date for Revelation.

The Syriac History of John, the Son of Zebedee (6th c.) and both Syriac versions of the Apocalypse (6th c., 7th c.) explicitly refer to John’s banishment by Nero.67 Arethas (A.D. 6th c.? 9th c.?), furthermore, taught that the book was written before A.D. 70, and understood it to be largely predictive of the Roman siege on Jerusalem.

See discussion in A. R. Fausset, Revelation in Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, A Commentary, Critical and Explanatory, on the Old and New Testaments, vol. 2 (Hartford, CT: Scranton, n.d.), 548.
 
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Scripture will not contradict itself. God will not contradict scripture, the ver word of God.

Jesus said "no one can get to the father except through me. "

One can't be saved unless Jesus is their Lord.

Please follow true teaching.
I won't argue, but I will repost so people will understand the words being typed out of my fingers: "This is not a chide, but rather...I want to make sure I was clear...so, did you read my original post? The 144k are saved after the Church is removed before the Tribulation. However, they are saved via the same person and mechanism (Christ's substitutionary death) as you and I...saved by Grace, through Faith, and that not of ourselves.... We humans do not dictate to God how he brings people to His Son. We read scripture, attempt to understand what God is doing, but we leave the saving business up to Him. "

We are saved by Grace through Faith...(this is through Christ). "All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." and further "No man can come to me, except the Father which sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day."

But my point is, we who think we understand Scripture, are still in no position to dictate to God how he draws people to the Son. Nor do we dictate to the Son, who He can accept as His own.

Human interpretations of scripture, and peoples doctrinal stances aside, I'll let Genesis through Revelation be the "firm foundation" that Christ, our Rock, uses to guide me.

And if you don't agree with me? Blessings and Peace...may we both grow in our knowledge and fellowship with Him and each other.
 
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I won't argue, but I will repost so people will understand the words being typed out of my fingers: "This is not a chide, but rather...I want to make sure I was clear...so, did you read my original post? The 144k are saved after the Church is removed before the Tribulation. However, they are saved via the same person and mechanism (Christ's substitutionary death) as you and I...saved by Grace, through Faith, and that not of ourselves.... We humans do not dictate to God how he brings people to His Son. We read scripture, attempt to understand what God is doing, but we leave the saving business up to Him. "

We are saved by Grace through Faith...(this is through Christ). "All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." and further "No man can come to me, except the Father which sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day."

But my point is, we who think we understand Scripture, are still in no position to dictate to God how he draws people to the Son. Nor do we dictate to the Son, who He can accept as His own.

Human interpretations of scripture, and peoples doctrinal stances aside, I'll let Genesis through Revelation be the "firm foundation" that Christ, our Rock, uses to guide me.

And if you don't agree with me? Blessings and Peace...may we both grow in our knowledge and fellowship with Him and each other.
Your words are beautiful and very respectful.
But beauty and respect will not bring people to heaven. Jesus sure was not beautiful nor respectful to the jews. Because Jesus want them to hear the truth, that they might believe and receive eternal life.

Jesus said to nickdamium and mark, and many isrealites, please note they are all ethnic isreal that Jesus speaking to, "no one will see the kingdom of God, except through me". Plus John 3 36 and many from Jesus teaching. Whoever reject Jesus reject the father. Read that aloud, Jesus words are very offensive to unbievers. Please read that loud, then you will hear Him.

This truth is from ot to nt, no questions.

If some say they can be saved by NOT accepting Jesus as Lord, this is a completely different gospel, which is not taught in scripture. It is the biggest curse one can say to others.

I can be very polite and respectful to speak against scripture too. But God put me in my royal place for a time like this. God did the same to John, Peter, paul.... everyone of us has our duty, do not take this gift of salvation lightly.

If God give you one breath left today, preach only the true gospel from the scripture! Do not curse to that 144k, say to them they don't need Jesus as their Lord. If you truly believe that, then you probably don't truly know God.
 
Your words are beautiful and very respectful.
But beauty and respect will not bring people to heaven. Jesus sure was not beautiful nor respectful to the jews. Because Jesus want them to hear the truth, that they might believe and receive eternal life.

Jesus said to nickdamium and mark, and many isrealites, please note they are all ethnic isreal that Jesus speaking to, "no one will see the kingdom of God, except through me". Plus John 3 36 and many from Jesus teaching. Whoever reject Jesus reject the father. Read that aloud, Jesus words are very offensive to unbievers. Please read that loud, then you will hear Him.

This truth is from ot to nt, no questions.

If some say they can be saved by NOT accepting Jesus as Lord, this is a completely different gospel, which is not taught in scripture. It is the biggest curse one can say to others.

I can be very polite and respectful to speak against scripture too. But God put me in my royal place for a time like this. God did the same to John, Peter, paul.... everyone of us has our duty, do not take this gift of salvation lightly.

If God give you one breath left today, preach only the true gospel from the scripture! Do not curse to that 144k, say to them they don't need Jesus as their Lord. If you truly believe that, then you probably don't truly know God.
It comes with age, and being in His Body for over 65 years...I've heard many of the arguments. Nothing new under the Sun.
 
didnt Jesus say it is fulfilled. do you believe you still need to keep the biblical feasts and give animal sacrifices? why not, they are part of the laws jots and tittles

The biblical feast are part of the time line that God follows..they are God's feast and events that were from the beginning.
Jesus fulfilled 4 there are 3 that will be fulfilled at his return.
 
Please explain what is the fact of "anti semitism".

Does that mean criticism towards isreal state?

I know what anti Christ is. That is against everything Jesus teaching, such as sexual immorality, murdering, stealing, pagan worship....

What is anti semitism?

Hatred for the jews because they are jews. Clear and simple. Not one good thing has been siad about the state of Israel but it seems that many sympathize with there known enemy.
Do yourself a favor look up gaza and show one good thing in the Bible about it. The suggestion of political powers placing Israel on the map is so weak but yet rather than
taken God's word of a regathering many here promote conspiracy. Attacking all that Israel has done.

Antichrist has 2 meanings....against God......instead of God
 
Hatred for the jews because they are jews.
Do you see anyone in this thread express this phenomenon?
Or it is a general definition by you?
Clear and simple. Not one good thing has been siad about the state of Israel but it seems that many sympathize with there known enemy.
One of Israel state s enemy is Jesus. As a whole they clearly blasphemy Jesus name. I stand with Jesus.
For isreal state to murder thousands thousands of Gaza people, many are children. You don't sympathize?
Do yourself a favor look up gaza and show one good thing in the Bible about it.
All are created in the image of God. They don't deserve to be murdered. Thou shall not murder.
The suggestion of political powers placing Israel on the map is so weak but yet rather than
taken God's word of a regathering many here promote conspiracy. Attacking all that Israel has done.
You are for blasphemy Jesus Name? Bombing historical Christian churches? Killing thousands of civilians? Supporting sexual immorality? Supporting pedophilia?
 
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Before attacking @BetterCallPsalms do some real research, you have no clue concerning the Geo-politics/Economics of the near east. Have you ever read any in-depth analysis of any of the peace negotiations, no you say, yes that is obvious.

With regards to the dating of the Book of Revelation...

Internal evidence makes it clear that the book was written prior to 70 AD.

The statement by Iranaeus is not without controversy and open to interpretation.

Your appeal to Clement of Alexandria does not support a later dating either.

This quote Clement of Alexandria (150-220 AD), once again assumed into the text as to who the tyrant is.

"And to give you confidence, when you have thus truly repented, that there remains for you a trustworthy hope of salvation, hear a story that is no mere story, but a true account of John the apostle that has been handed down and preserved in memory. When after the death of the tyrant he removed from the island of Patmos to Ephesus, he used to journey by request to the neighboring districts of the Gentiles, in some places to appoint bishops, in others to regulate whole churches, in others to set among the clergy some one man, it may be, of those indicated by the Spirit.
(“Who is the Rich Man that shall be Saved?”, Section 42)"

_________________________

There remain several other historical sources worth noting that attest to a pre-70 date for Revelation.

The Syriac History of John, the Son of Zebedee (6th c.) and both Syriac versions of the Apocalypse (6th c., 7th c.) explicitly refer to John’s banishment by Nero.67 Arethas (A.D. 6th c.? 9th c.?), furthermore, taught that the book was written before A.D. 70, and understood it to be largely predictive of the Roman siege on Jerusalem.

See discussion in A. R. Fausset, Revelation in Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, A Commentary, Critical and Explanatory, on the Old and New Testaments, vol. 2 (Hartford, CT: Scranton, n.d.), 548.

Thanks for that.
I have noticed that the 95AD authorship view of revelations relies on a flimsy at best church father argument, and gives rise to a confusing mix of interpretations. The view that it was written during the reign of Nero has evidence in the text itself, despite resonating strongly with the church fathers and history.
It also makes sense that John did not name Nero directly but gave the Hebrew number of his name.
John was on the island because Nero expected him to be dead, and he wanted the book to circulate among the churches of Asia Minor.
The centurions were all Gentiles, and would not understand what the number meant, while the churches had enough Jews in them to explain.
 
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Thank u for sharing. Very sound historical and current day facts, teaching.
May God raise up more and more Christians to know the truth, speak the truth. Be the salt and light.
For God put us in our royal place for a day like this!!!
God bless the truth seekers!!!
Thank you, I am not slandering a 'State' as Gideon claims, I am just simply showing him the true nature of Israel and I should have been more verbal on how it is important to stay focused on Christ and not over any nation or anything of the world.
 
Thank you, I am not slandering a 'State' as Gideon claims, I am just simply showing him the true nature of Israel and I should have been more verbal on how it is important to stay focused on Christ and not over any nation or anything of the world.
Yes, if we call ourselves Christians, let our yes be yes, no be no.

Throwing labels without facts backing up, is against Jesus teaching.
 
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I'm just trying to remove the darkness over your eyes to see the truth.
Truth? You have no idea about Israel and what she has been going through. The conflict has been going on since 1948. Take your blinkers off and look at the facts.

Do you know what "from the river to the sea" means? It's calling for the complete destruction of Israel. Egypt, Syria, Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas and the Muslim Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank have been trying since 1948. Israel has survived and prospered. 8 million against 400 million. That should tell you something.

Do you not know that Muslims are permitted to lie in order to advance Islam? Do you not know that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East? People who leave Islam are likely to be murdered in most of the Middle East. That's the kind of people Israel is dealing with. If Israel is committing genocide, they are doing a lousy job. The population of Gaza has increased. Much of Gaza has been destroyed because Hamas keeps attacking Israel.

The only threat of genocide is from Iran and its mercenary armies, Hezbollah and Hamas. The target is Israel.

There is a spiritual battle behind the war. God said that there would be conflict between the descendants of Isaac and Ishmael. And that has been going on for thousands of years. You have chosen the wrong side.​
 
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i dont understand why you think germany or america are somehow blessed? american cities are full of junkies, high crime, low IQ fake people. germany on the other hand is having its entire population replaced by 3rd world human filth. i fail to see the blessing, but atleast the fentanyl is cheap
I also said that as America turns against Israel, blessing will come off. Compared to much of the world, America is still vastly better off. The world generally is worse off. It will get much worse. Germany is still strong, relatively speaking.

It is a bitter irony that Islam is the primary threat to the democratic way of life. While the world rants about 8 million Jews who just want to be left alone, Muslims flood the same nations. They do not come to take part. They come to take over. How do I know? First, they say so. Second, it is happening. In America too.

The best example of decline is the UK, where I am from originally. They went from ruling a quarter of the the world to barely surviving in only a few decades. Britain's anti Jewish attitudes were to blame.
 
Exactly.

For a few years I thought Newsmax, breibart were good. Then I saw Newsmax reporter quickly twist live story in front of my eyes, then put the dots together, even Newsmax, breitbart are controlled by the enemy of Jesus.

The people at least seem not controlled by them are, tucker Carlson, Thomas massie, Marjorie green....and some small independent churches, pastors.

So I am into small churches, at least I know the leaders, I know their backgrounds. I don't want big mega churches, don't know where their money come from. Like Scofield, how did he got Oxford publishing? Very questionable.

Even Jesus, Peter, Paul, John the Baptist.... they don't have big financial support. Follow their examples.
Jesus and His disciples had enough money for it to be worth Judas stealing. Paul learned to be content with a little yet also was amply provided for later in life. If believers have nothing, they are not able to help others financially.

Tucker Carlson is now the enemy of God. He has stated, for example, that Sharia Law is good and fear of radical Islam is wildly exaggerated. He seems to ignore the tens of thousands of Christians being killed in North Africa, and Muslim violence around the world, even here in Australia. Marjorie Greene has defended Carlson.

If you are a Carlson supporter, you are on the wrong side. Islam was founded by a mass murdering paedophile. Mohamed lied, deceived and murdered without compunction. And Qatar paid Carlson $200,000 for an interview with Qatar's PM. Qatar is a known funder of Muslim terrorism.​
 
Uk and usa are declining because they turn away from God. Same reason in OT. Israel got broken down.

Temporary worship golden calf yeah brings some wealth. But Jesus said thou shall worship the Lord only.

Yeah, the devil said to Jesus, if you worship me, you will have all the splendor of the world. Jesus said we should worship God only.

Do not bow down to the golden calf for economic wealth.
 
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Jesus and His disciples had enough money for it to be worth Judas stealing. Paul learned to be content with a little yet also was amply provided for later in life. If believers have nothing, they are not able to help others financially.

Tucker Carlson is now the enemy of God. He has stated, for example, that Sharia Law is good and fear of radical Islam is wildly exaggerated. He seems to ignore the tens of thousands of Christians being killed in North Africa, and Muslim violence around the world, even here in Australia. Marjorie Greene has defended Carlson.

If you are a Carlson supporter, you are on the wrong side. Islam was founded by a mass murdering paedophile. Mohamed lied, deceived and murdered without compunction. And Qatar paid Carlson $200,000 for an interview with Qatar's PM. Qatar is a known funder of Muslim terrorism.​
Calson clearly claims Jesus Christ as Lord and savior. Not like natanyahu, who knows who he bow down to.

I am a follower of Jesus, not a follower of earthly isreal state, which is completely against Jesus. Not like some people, they worship Israel state.

Isreal state want Muslim and Christian to fight against each other, so they can benefit from it. That's exactly what's happening in the world. I am not falling into that trap.

Jesus never say to pick either Muslim or Jewish. Jesus say to follow Him only, not any pagan calf.

For older Christians, let you yes be yes, let you no be no.

Both Muslim and Israel have violence around the world. people should research that history. But Israel state has more weapons, so they can perform more violence.
 
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