Thomas Jefferson Asked One Simple Question

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Musicmaster

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Feb 8, 2021
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Modern Islamic fundamentalism isn't a reaction to initial American actions as us being aggressive toward them, but rather the other way around. The fundamental Islamic aggression against America is rooted in a long-standing, pre-existing ideological doctrine that so few ever want to talk about, especially liberal-minded individuals.

The historical account of the Barbary states enslaving American sailors in 1788 serves as the primary evidence for this thesis. When questioned, the Barbary ambassador’s justification was not based on any specific grievance or historical conflict, such as the Crusades, but rather on a religious permission to enslave "infidels." This historical precedent is used to argue that attributing modern justifications for Islamic aggression to American foreign policy is a dangerous misinterpretation that excuses the perpetrators and incorrectly assigns blame to the victims.

The Historical Precedent (1788)​

  • The Phenomenon: The Barbary states were capturing American ships and enslaving their crews shortly after the United States was founded. This aggression occurred despite America having no prior history of conflict with the Muslim world.
  • The Diplomatic Inquiry: U.S. representatives Jefferson and Adams directly asked the Barbary ambassador in London to explain the unprovoked attacks.
  • The Stated Cause: The ambassador's response was not political or territorial. He explicitly stated their right to enslave Americans was granted by their faith because the Americans were "infidels." This practice resulted in an estimated one and a half million European and American slaves.
The Modern Application
I therefore refute the thesis that American democracy created Islamic fundamentalism and its aggressive campaigns against all other peoples if the world not already indoctrinated into Islam. This historical event is positioned as proof that the ideological framework for such hostility against America existed centuries before recent American foreign policy decisions. The conclusion drawn is that framing this conflict as a modern, reactive phenomenon is a "lie" that obscures the true, deeply-rooted origins and guilt of the Islamic ideology that continues to this day.

MM
 
In this time the blame is ju8stified, it seems. It is not if you believe genocide is alright if it is at their hands, however I believe the most wonderful Jew of all time would disagree with you.
The Sermon on the Mount teaches us to love our enemies. I love the P)Palestinians, but they were never my enemies, so that was a no brainer.
 
In this time the blame is ju8stified, it seems. It is not if you believe genocide is alright if it is at their hands, however I believe the most wonderful Jew of all time would disagree with you.
The Sermon on the Mount teaches us to love our enemies. I love the P)Palestinians, but they were never my enemies, so that was a no brainer.

There was a time in very recent history when ALL who lived in that land were called "Palestinians," but mass media and politicians with an axe to grind, before the first world war, the narrative changed because of Britain, by them carving out land in favor of those who were friendly and those not so friendly; separating out the Jews away from that label in order to make it easier to demonize us with their biased reporting in mass media.

See this for proof:

Interesting is it not.

MM
 
The hatred towards the USA by many in the Middle East is due to the USA's unconditional support of Israel.

Yes. Most Islamics are ignorant of history for origins, knowing only the warped and twisted teachings of their wicked imams who have flipped history on its head in order to try and back their hatred for us. Heck, most of them don't even know nor understand their own Koran apart from what they're taught at Mosque.

MM
 
Modern Islamic fundamentalism isn't a reaction to initial American actions as us being aggressive toward them, but rather the other way around. The fundamental Islamic aggression against America is rooted in a long-standing, pre-existing ideological doctrine that so few ever want to talk about, especially liberal-minded individuals.

The historical account of the Barbary states enslaving American sailors in 1788 serves as the primary evidence for this thesis. When questioned, the Barbary ambassador’s justification was not based on any specific grievance or historical conflict, such as the Crusades, but rather on a religious permission to enslave "infidels." This historical precedent is used to argue that attributing modern justifications for Islamic aggression to American foreign policy is a dangerous misinterpretation that excuses the perpetrators and incorrectly assigns blame to the victims.

The Historical Precedent (1788)​

  • The Phenomenon: The Barbary states were capturing American ships and enslaving their crews shortly after the United States was founded. This aggression occurred despite America having no prior history of conflict with the Muslim world.
  • The Diplomatic Inquiry: U.S. representatives Jefferson and Adams directly asked the Barbary ambassador in London to explain the unprovoked attacks.
  • The Stated Cause: The ambassador's response was not political or territorial. He explicitly stated their right to enslave Americans was granted by their faith because the Americans were "infidels." This practice resulted in an estimated one and a half million European and American slaves.
The Modern Application
I therefore refute the thesis that American democracy created Islamic fundamentalism and its aggressive campaigns against all other peoples if the world not already indoctrinated into Islam. This historical event is positioned as proof that the ideological framework for such hostility against America existed centuries before recent American foreign policy decisions. The conclusion drawn is that framing this conflict as a modern, reactive phenomenon is a "lie" that obscures the true, deeply-rooted origins and guilt of the Islamic ideology that continues to this day.

MM

Utilizing a teeny tiny slice, of particular moment in history and one statement by an individual makes all interpretations and applications possible...pretty much the sky is the limit.
 
Utilizing a teeny tiny slice, of particular moment in history and one statement by an individual makes all interpretations and applications possible...pretty much the sky is the limit.

So, do you also hate us Jews? What's behind your statement given the enormous implications of what Golda said in just that short little clip from a larger and longer interview? Are you an anti-Semite along with some others within Western, liberal Christianity? I've heard the entire interview many times, and if you think the summarized application in my statements is skewed or outright false, please back your words with something of substance. I would appreciate the clarification.

Thanks

MM
 
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So, do you also hate us Jews? What's behind your statement given the enormous implications of what Golda said in just that short little clip from a larger and longer interview? Are you an anti-Semite along with some others within Western, liberal Christianity? I've heard the entire interview many times, and if you think the summarized application in my statements is skewed or outright false, please back your words with something of substance. I would appreciate the clarification.

Thanks

MM

I hate no one, really something you jump to that conclusion, someone as intelligent as yourself.
My point is about the study of history... analysis, perspective, context, objective analysis, cause and effect.

You want to draw a conclusion without proper analysis.
While the study of history is not like algebra it requires a certain process.

Maybe your conclusion has merit, I just do not think you have provided enough evidence and I doubt that is possible to do on a message board.
 
I hate no one, really something you jump to that conclusion, someone as intelligent as yourself.
My point is about the study of history... analysis, perspective, context, objective analysis, cause and effect.

You want to draw a conclusion without proper analysis.
While the study of history is not like algebra it requires a certain process.

Maybe your conclusion has merit, I just do not think you have provided enough evidence and I doubt that is possible to do on a message board.

How is asking a question a matter of jumping to any conclusion without the bitterness of anyone creating a subjective foundation of assumed basis behind the question itself? Having been on the receiving end of such hatred, and therefore knowing without a doubt there are many out there who openly reveal their hatred of us, exploring their reasons generally leads to them having adopted a hatred not deserved. I have actually helped some to arrive at that realization while others marched onward into the deeper levels of their irrational hatred. I was simply asking of what stripe you are colored with...are you with them or not. Your reaction leaves me not much more to go on as to where you stand, thus my asking.

So if, in your mind, merely asking the question is somehow my having done or not done any analysis, asking the question should be construed as my NOT having made any analysis of you personally, but you defensively lashing out like that would cause anyone to wonder...

MM
 
How is asking a question a matter of jumping to any conclusion without the bitterness of anyone creating a subjective foundation of assumed basis behind the question itself? Having been on the receiving end of such hatred, and therefore knowing without a doubt there are many out there who openly reveal their hatred of us, exploring their reasons generally leads to them having adopted a hatred not deserved. I have actually helped some to arrive at that realization while others marched onward into the deeper levels of their irrational hatred. I was simply asking of what stripe you are colored with...are you with them or not. Your reaction leaves me not much more to go on as to where you stand, thus my asking.

So if, in your mind, merely asking the question is somehow my having done or not done any analysis, asking the question should be construed as my NOT having made any analysis of you personally, but you defensively lashing out like that would cause anyone to wonder...

MM

This paragraph is a question? Okay

I therefore refute the thesis that American democracy created Islamic fundamentalism and its aggressive campaigns against all other peoples if the world not already indoctrinated into Islam. This historical event is positioned as proof that the ideological framework for such hostility against America existed centuries before recent American foreign policy decisions. The conclusion drawn is that framing this conflict as a modern, reactive phenomenon is a "lie" that obscures the true, deeply-rooted origins and guilt of the Islamic ideology that continues to this day.

What bothers me immensely is people thinking they can be historians without formal training... that is all.
I am moving on.
 
This paragraph is a question? Okay

I therefore refute the thesis that American democracy created Islamic fundamentalism and its aggressive campaigns against all other peoples if the world not already indoctrinated into Islam. This historical event is positioned as proof that the ideological framework for such hostility against America existed centuries before recent American foreign policy decisions. The conclusion drawn is that framing this conflict as a modern, reactive phenomenon is a "lie" that obscures the true, deeply-rooted origins and guilt of the Islamic ideology that continues to this day.

What bothers me immensely is people thinking they can be historians without formal training... that is all.
I am moving on.

Really... Well, I will remember that when looking upon the degrees on my office wall and wondering what's on yours.

Yes, please do move on. Your bitterness speaks loud volumes for all to see.

MM
 
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In this time the blame is ju8stified, it seems. It is not if you believe genocide is alright if it is at their hands, however I believe the most wonderful Jew of all time would disagree with you.
The Sermon on the Mount teaches us to love our enemies. I love the P)Palestinians, but they were never my enemies, so that was a no brainer.
The only genocide is the attempt to eliminate Jews.
 
In this time the blame is ju8stified, it seems. It is not if you believe genocide is alright if it is at their hands, however I believe the most wonderful Jew of all time would disagree with you.
The Sermon on the Mount teaches us to love our enemies. I love the P)Palestinians, but they were never my enemies, so that was a no brainer.
Odd... because nobody else in the middle east seems to "love" the Palestinians.... try to find ONE nation over there that will allow the Palestinian refugees to enter and live in their countries...

I would bet a year's pay that if all the nations around Israel stopped trying to wipe them off the map, Israel would be happily content to live in peace.
 
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Modern Islamic fundamentalism isn't a reaction to initial American actions as us being aggressive toward them, but rather the other way around. The fundamental Islamic aggression against America is rooted in a long-standing, pre-existing ideological doctrine that so few ever want to talk about, especially liberal-minded individuals.

The historical account of the Barbary states enslaving American sailors in 1788 serves as the primary evidence for this thesis. When questioned, the Barbary ambassador’s justification was not based on any specific grievance or historical conflict, such as the Crusades, but rather on a religious permission to enslave "infidels." This historical precedent is used to argue that attributing modern justifications for Islamic aggression to American foreign policy is a dangerous misinterpretation that excuses the perpetrators and incorrectly assigns blame to the victims.

The Historical Precedent (1788)​

  • The Phenomenon: The Barbary states were capturing American ships and enslaving their crews shortly after the United States was founded. This aggression occurred despite America having no prior history of conflict with the Muslim world.
  • The Diplomatic Inquiry: U.S. representatives Jefferson and Adams directly asked the Barbary ambassador in London to explain the unprovoked attacks.
  • The Stated Cause: The ambassador's response was not political or territorial. He explicitly stated their right to enslave Americans was granted by their faith because the Americans were "infidels." This practice resulted in an estimated one and a half million European and American slaves.
The Modern Application
I therefore refute the thesis that American democracy created Islamic fundamentalism and its aggressive campaigns against all other peoples if the world not already indoctrinated into Islam. This historical event is positioned as proof that the ideological framework for such hostility against America existed centuries before recent American foreign policy decisions. The conclusion drawn is that framing this conflict as a modern, reactive phenomenon is a "lie" that obscures the true, deeply-rooted origins and guilt of the Islamic ideology that continues to this day.

MM

I think the argument is usually framed in a simplistic 2 dimensional framework.
That's the kind that sets up false flag events like the twin towers controlled demolitions of 3 buildings in NY and one reinforced section of the pentagram.

The enemy is well organized and plans for various outcomes that results in their goals. See my thread in 911 for lots of details.
 
Palestinians have been in Jordan for a very ong time. I believe some of those displaced by the Israeli expansionism have been there since the 1940's, perhaps even earlier..

This is a moot issue when speaking of the Love of God, since He is Love. I love the Israelis with whom I lived for several month on Kibbutz Mishmar HaNegev, and nothing has altered my love for them.

People who believe the Savior should learn the difference between Jews and those who say they are Jews but are not. This warning is quite clear in the Book, Revelation, or Apocalypse. We will know them by their works, as we know believers in all situations.

All of this aside, no one can justify genocide, no one.
 
Palestinians have been in Jordan for a very ong time. I believe some of those displaced by the Israeli expansionism have been there since the 1940's, perhaps even earlier..

This is a moot issue when speaking of the Love of God, since He is Love. I love the Israelis with whom I lived for several month on Kibbutz Mishmar HaNegev, and nothing has altered my love for them.

People who believe the Savior should learn the difference between Jews and those who say they are Jews but are not. This warning is quite clear in the Book, Revelation, or Apocalypse. We will know them by their works, as we know believers in all situations.

All of this aside, no one can justify genocide, no one.

The day is coming when we will once again occupy ALL that land promised to Abraham and His descendants, which includes everything between the Nile and the Euphrates. That will involve God kicking out ALL those who are not of Israel.

MM
 
The Israel of Yahweh is comprised of all who believe. The word, Israel, may be translate completely as "to rule with Elohanu."

Most people seem to overlook that we are grafted into the original vine

When the New Jerusalem is brought down by Yahweh, the Israel of Yahweh will be brought back from all the nations to which they have been scattered.

A true Jew is one who praises Yah.

His name is to be proclaimed in all the nations.

The country called Israel on our maps today bears nor resemblance to the original Israel, not to the One twosome.

Were it to be as originally planned, it would be headed by a High Priest. It is not nor are there any plans for it to be in the future. Also, there are denominations amongst Jews today, unheard of in the Israel of the Pentateuch.

The Isarael to come will have our King, Yeshua. Wait, watch, and you will see for yourself.
 
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Yes. Most Islamics are ignorant of history for origins, knowing only the warped and twisted teachings of their wicked imams who have flipped history on its head in order to try and back their hatred for us. Heck, most of them don't even know nor understand their own Koran apart from what they're taught at Mosque.

MM
There is a company called earthworks. They make very good professional microphones. One earthworks measurement microphone, used for measuring decibel level and spectrograph in different parts of a building, costs $600.

There is also a company called behringer. They make cheap knockoff music products, like cheap mixing boards and microphones. They also make a cheap knockoff of the earthworks microphone and sell it for 50 bucks.

I have never seen earthworks put out a commercial about how bad the Beringer microphone is. They don't need to. All they need to do is advertise their own microphone.

If you advertise how bad Islam is, you are focusing on the wrong kind of advertising. And you, music dude, have been flat-out reveling in it. If your religion is any good at all, you shouldn't need to focus on how bad the competition is.
 
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somebody needs to explain about the Ottoman empire, palestine, slavery and all that interesting stuff....otherwise this entire op
is just a void looking for a place to fit in to