Was Judas Iscariot saved, or was he not?

[Godsgood]

Telling you that you are wrong is neither harsh nor insulting.


You don’t get to gloss over your baseless accusations and pretend you didn’t state them.

Recant them and we will see whether respectful conversation results.

As I have already said, and I will repeat it again: what we are discussing here concerns spiritual life, the truth regarding salvation. You were exposed by God, and I only believed what God revealed.

On the other hand, even if I were to take back what you say I should recant, that would not become the basis for salvation. We should seek to be holy before God, not before people.

If, according to your belief, those things only came from me and are not true before God, then why are you wasting your time on them?
So regardless of how much you criticize my posts or speak negatively about me, I will never ask you to take back what you have said. For I know that those things do not come from God but only from yourself.

I cannot say to the Lord, "I am saved because you took back the things you said to me before."

Why do you seem so troubled by this?
If you believe that the things you are asking me to take back are not true, then what are you afraid of?
Are you not following what God has said?
HEBREWS 13:6
6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

But if you insist that I must take them back, otherwise you will not have a respectful conversation with me, that is your choice.
It is your freewil.

 

[RED-ED]

No one in this forum seems to know the Prophesies concerning Judas. Seems to ost of you are only reading the New Testament.

 

[DavidLamb]

And disbelief in and lack of trust in the Lord are also sins. Am I correct?

Yes, that is so.

 

[DavidLamb]

You ask me which I believe. I believe that the Bible teaches us that God the Father and the Son are both mighty and almighty.
I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced that the Father and the Son are both Almighty and mighty.
My reason is that the meaning of Almighty carries a greater sense of power than mighty.
How can they be Almighty at one time and merely mighty at another?
Shouldn't they always be Almighty?

Mighty	Almighty
Powerful	All-powerful
Has great power	Has unlimited, absolute power
Power may have limits	Power has no limits
Can describe people, angels, kings, or God	Primarily used as a title for God

Definitions

• Mighty: Having great strength, power, or authority.
  • Example: He is a mighty warrior.
  • Meaning: He is very powerful, but not all-powerful.

• Almighty: Having complete, unlimited, and supreme power; omnipotent.
  • Example: The Lord God Almighty reigns.
  • Meaning: God possesses unlimited power.

Another question:
If the Lord Jesus, as the Son, is sometimes Almighty and sometimes mighty, then which one is He?
Which of the two does He truly represent?
He said that, as the Son of God, He could do nothing.
JOHN 5:19
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

The Bible refers to God the Father and Jesus Christ as both "mighty" and "almighty." When we use the word "mighty" of a powerful human being, then we accept that their might/power has limits. The strongest man in the world could not lift an ocean liner, for example. When the Bible calls God "mighty" it is not saying that God's power is limited. Jeremiah makes this abundantly clear:

(Jer 32:17-18 NKJV) 'Ah, Lord GOD! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and outstretched arm. There is nothing too hard for You. You show lovingkindness to thousands, and repay the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them—the Great, the Mighty God, whose name is the LORD of hosts.

In verse 17 he says to God, "There is nothing too hard for you," and in the next verse he says, "the Great, the Mighty God."

 

[DavidLamb]

You ask me to describe how the three are one. I would say that it is beyond what a mere human being is able to do. All I can do is to point to Scripture. Jesus Christ said:
(Joh 10:30 NKJV) "I and My Father are one."

You mentioned John 10:30. What is your understanding of what the Lord Jesus said?
JOHN 10:30
30 I and my Father are one.

I understand Jesus to mean that, like the Father, He (Jesus) s fully and eternally God.

 

[rewriter]

And disbelief in and lack of trust in the Lord are also sins. Am I correct?

Correct, as are excessive pride and insulting others. Remember, the whole of the law can be summed up with love God with all your hear, mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself. Unless you like to be insulted, insulting another is a sin.

 

[Dino246]

You were exposed by God, and I only believed what God revealed.

Hogwash. You created your own negative opinion of me after I challenged your unbiblical ideas.

On the other hand, even if I were to take back what you say I should recant, that would not become the basis for salvation.

Obviously. Why would you even make the comment?

If, according to your belief, those things only came from me and are not true before God, then why are you wasting your time on them?

Because while claiming you want respectful conversation, you are demonstrating that you prefer to be disrespectful. I am calling you out on your hypocrisy.

 

[Dino246]

So how is it? Is the Holy Bible really clear enough to be understood, or is it confusing?

Because it seems that it is written that God the Father is called both "Almighty God" and "Mighty God."
Likewise, the Lord Jesus is also referred to as both "Almighty God" and "Mighty God."
So does everyone just choose whichever belief they want?

My question is: Which one do you believe?

The Bible calls God by several names: YHVH, El Elyon, El Shaddai, and many more.

Should we "believe" only one of these and not the others?

There is no need to decide "which" to believe, Mighty God or Almighty God. Both are true. When you try to break the truth of Scripture into discrete components which must be processed individually, you come away with confusion. When you treat it as a comprehensive picture, it makes sense.

 

[Godsgood]

Yes.

But there are plenty of Scripture passages that teach quite clearly that Jesus Christ is God and that He became flesh. An example s John 1:

(Joh 1:1-3 NKJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

(Joh 1:14 NKJV) And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

The people you are talking about would have to ignore a passage like that.


That is God saying He would be a Father to His people. Other verses tell us that we are His children by adoption. For instance:

(Rom 8:14-15 NKJV) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."

As for Jesus Christ being merely mighty while the Father is almighty, Colosians says of Jesus:

(Col 2:9 NKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;



I didn't reply to 3 because I don't really know much about Oneness doctrine.

I agree with Point 4.

I believe that Jesus Christ is fully God, and since His incarnation, also fully Man, as John 1 states.

You said that #1 and #2 are not true Christians, so they are not born again. Am I correct?

Now, what do you think about #3? Are they like #1 and #, not true Christians and not born again as well?

1. Jesus is only a man and is not God.
2. Jesus is a Mighty God, but not the Almighty God, because His Father is the Almighty God.
3. The name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ; therefore, the name of God is Jesus Christ. This is known as the Oneness doctrine. There is only one God, who has revealed Himself in different manifestations or modes.
4. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct persons. God the Father is different from God the Son, and God the Son is different from God the Holy Spirit. Jesus is both fully God and fully man.

 

[DavidLamb]

You said that #1 and #2 are not true Christians, so they are not born again. Am I correct?

Now, what do you think about #3? Are they like #1 and #, not true Christians and not born again as well?

1. Jesus is only a man and is not God.
2. Jesus is a Mighty God, but not the Almighty God, because His Father is the Almighty God.
3. The name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ; therefore, the name of God is Jesus Christ. This is known as the Oneness doctrine. There is only one God, who has revealed Himself in different manifestations or modes.
4. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct persons. God the Father is different from God the Son, and God the Son is different from God the Holy Spirit. Jesus is both fully God and fully man.

I explained n my previous post that I did not answer 3, because I know very little about "Oneness" beliefs.

Out of your four choices of Who Jesus Christ is, I believe Number 4.

 

[Godsgood]

I explained n my previous post that I did not answer 3, because I know very little about "Oneness" beliefs.

Out of your four choices of Who Jesus Christ is, I believe Number 4.

We do have this verse, where Jesus is speaking to the disciples:

(Mat 28:19 NKJV ) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Jesus didn't say, "baptizing them in My name," did He?

I'm sorry. I just wanted to make sure I understood your answer correctly.

The only reason I asked is that, based on your previous answer, you don't agree with #3 or Oneness belief and doctrine that baptism should be performed in the name of Jesus Christ.
MATTHEW 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

ACTS 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That's why I'm asking again: In your view, are they truly Christians or born-again Christians?"

 

[Godsgood]

And disbelief in and lack of trust in the Lord are also sins. Am I correct?

Yes, that is so.

Here the Lord says that He is speaking in parables, or 'dark sayings of old.'

Should we believe and trust Him, even if His words appear clear to us?"
PSALMS 78:2
2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

EZEKIEL 20:49
49 Then said I, Ah Lord God! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?

MARK 4:34
34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

 

[Godsgood]

I understand Jesus to mean that, like the Father, He (Jesus) s fully and eternally God.

In the Old Testament, we have seen how God the Father is fully and eternally God at all times.
How can we see this in the Lord Jesus at all times?

 

[Dino246]

And disbelief in and lack of trust in the Lord are also sins. Am I correct?

Here the Lord says that He is speaking in parables, or 'dark sayings of old.'

Should we believe and trust Him, even if His words appear clear to us?"
PSALMS 78:2
2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

EZEKIEL 20:49
49 Then said I, Ah Lord God! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?

MARK 4:34
34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

This post looks like a brazen attempt to manipulate your readers into agreeing with your position on this matter.

However, Jesus did not say, "I always speak in parables". The text (in context) does not say, "Jesus always spoke in parables." Even in the latter passage it is stated that Jesus expounded all things to his disciples."

"Expounded" is another word for "explained"... as in plain speech, in detail.

Jesus also said these things:

Mark 8:32 "And He was stating the matter plainly. And Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him."

John 11:14-15 "So Jesus then said to them plainly, “Lazarus died, 15 and I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, so that you may believe; but let’s go to him.”

John 16:25 “These things I have spoken to you in figures of speech; an hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figures of speech, but will tell you plainly about the Father.

And a moment later,

John 16:29 His disciples said, “See, now You are speaking plainly and are not using any figure of speech.

So Jesus was not always speaking in parables. In fact, much of the time He was not. Most of Scripture, His word, is not parables. You have taken three verses as though they are the most important words in the whole Bible, and have chosen to limit your own understanding by filtering God's word through your misunderstanding of those passages.

That is foolish.

 

[Dino246]

In the Old Testament, we have seen how God the Father is fully and eternally God at all times.
How can we see this in the Lord Jesus at all times?

Have you assumed that every mention of God in the Old Testament refers to "God the Father"? If so, on what evidence?

 

[DavidLamb]

We do have this verse, where Jesus is speaking to the disciples:

(Mat 28:19 NKJV ) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Jesus didn't say, "baptizing them in My name," did He?

I'm sorry. I just wanted to make sure I understood your answer correctly.

The only reason I asked is that, based on your previous answer, you don't agree with #3 or Oneness belief and doctrine that baptism should be performed in the name of Jesus Christ.
MATTHEW 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

ACTS 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That's why I'm asking again: In your view, are they truly Christians or born-again Christians?"

If they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour, I think they probably are saved, despite having strange views of the Godhead. I have never met any Oneness believers, so I can't be certain.

 

[DavidLamb]

In the Old Testament, we have seen how God the Father is fully and eternally God at all times.
How can we see this in the Lord Jesus at all times?

We see the deity of the Son in passages such as John 1.

 

[rewriter]

We see the deity of the Son in passages such as John 1.

But do we understand deity as the 1st century believers did, and do we understand John 1 in the same way or are we missing something that was rapidly spotted in the 1st century?

 

[DavidLamb]

But do we understand deity as the 1st century believers did, and do we understand John 1 in the same way or are we missing something that was rapidly spotted in the 1st century?

I wonder what aspects of deity you are thinking of that you think may have been understood differently by 1st century Christians?

 

[rewriter]

I wonder what aspects of deity you are thinking of that you think may have been understood differently by 1st century Christians?

The Mishnah and Talmud indicate that there was controversy over the question of the validity of the Heliopolis temple. The DSS indicate that it included pagan aspects. If a Jewish temple with pagan aspects was even considered as possibly valid in the late 1st century BCE or early 1st CE, then we do not understand 1st century concepts of deity.

Now it is fine to proclaim that Judaism in the 1st century was purely monotheistic, but when the evidence suggests otherwise it is good to tread carefully with assertions.