The book of Job

[christophernyc]

I don't understand how you can say that about Elihu. What Elihu stated God repeated.

You still haven't answered a simple question. Was Job depending on God's righteousness, or his own righteousness, to save him?

Have you not read my responses? Please review Post #863, Post #880 and Post #907. My answer was provided you.

But…if you need it again, here ya go

Job is trusting in God Himself to save him.

Job 13:16 (Job)
He also shall be my salvation

Compare this statement from Job with the words of Moses, David, and Isaiah:

Exodus 15:2
The LORD is my strength and my song, and He has become my salvation;

Psalm 62:2
He alone is my rock and my salvation, my fortress; I shall not be greatly shaken.

Isaiah 12:2
Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and will not be afraid;
for the LORD GOD is my strength and my song, and He has become my salvation.

Job’s faith is in God. Job’s faith is in God before, during, and after his trial.

Can you answer how you support your belief that James would commend Job for persevering and being steadfast in his pride?

 

[christophernyc]

I don't understand how you can say that about Elihu. What Elihu stated God repeated.

You still haven't answered a simple question. Was Job depending on God's righteousness, or his own righteousness, to save him?

Do you have any support for your belief that Job is persevering and being steadfast in his pride? And why would James commend him for it? You don’t have any support for your claim, right?

Regarding Elihu, consider this description of false apostles provided by Paul.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

It’s funny how some have even interpreted Elihu as some kind of “angel”.

Remember, too, that satan quoted Scripture to Jesus when Jesus was being tempted in the desert prior to His ministry. Was the Scripture satan quoted true? Of course. But satan was using it for deceitful purposes.

It’s highly likely things did not end well for Elihu. Notice he is never heard from nor mentioned again after the whirlwind arrives. Hm.

 

[tttallison]

Have you not read my responses? Please review Post #863, Post #880 and Post #907. My answer was provided you.

But…if you need it again, here ya go

Job is trusting in God Himself to save him.

Job 13:16 (Job)
He also shall be my salvation

Compare this statement from Job with the words of Moses, David, and Isaiah:

Exodus 15:2
The LORD is my strength and my song, and He has become my salvation;

Psalm 62:2
He alone is my rock and my salvation, my fortress; I shall not be greatly shaken.

Isaiah 12:2
Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and will not be afraid;
for the LORD GOD is my strength and my song, and He has become my salvation.

Job’s faith is in God. Job’s faith is in God before, during, and after his trial.

Can you answer how you support your belief that James would commend Job for persevering and being steadfast in his pride?

You still haven't answered why Job is trusting God to save him. Is Job trusting in God's righteousness, or is Job trusting in Job's righteousness?

 

[christophernyc]

These are 2 different questions.

But you are right, I did not answer the *why* part that you asked previously.

Your Question: Why is Job trusting God to save him?

My Answer: because God is God and Job is not.

Only God has the power to save Job. Job knows this, as evidenced in his words, and that is why Job puts his faith and trust in God alone.

Job 13:16 (Job)
He also shall be my salvation

Job 19:25 (Job)
For I know that my Redeemer lives

So do you have any support for your belief that Job is persevering and being steadfast in his pride? And why would the apostle James commend him for it in his epistle?

You don’t have any support for your claim, do you?

 

[tttallison]

These are 2 different questions.

But you are right, I did not answer the *why* part that you asked previously.

Your Question: Why is Job trusting God to save him?

My Answer: because God is God and Job is not.

Only God has the power to save Job. Job knows this, as evidenced in his words, and that is why Job puts his faith and trust in God alone.

Job 13:16 (Job)
He also shall be my salvation

Job 19:25 (Job)
For I know that my Redeemer lives

So do you have any support for your belief that Job is persevering and being steadfast in his pride? And why would the apostle James commend him for it in his epistle?

You don’t have any support for your claim, do you?

The why part was the question. Was Job depending on God's righteousness, or was Job depending on Job's righteousness? It is a multiple choice. Seems easy enough.

 

[tttallison]

Regarding Elihu, consider this description of false apostles provided by Paul.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

It’s funny how some have even interpreted Elihu as some kind of “angel”.

Remember, too, that satan quoted Scripture to Jesus when Jesus was being tempted in the desert prior to His ministry. Was the Scripture satan quoted true? Of course. But satan was using it for deceitful purposes.

It’s highly likely things did not end well for Elihu. Notice he is never heard from nor mentioned again after the whirlwind arrives. Hm.

You are trying to present Elihu as a false prophet, but God confirms his words. Would you also condemn God. It is interesting that you promote Job above God. Remember, Job reproved God.

Elihu and God Comparison of Speech​

Elihu said, “Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.” Job 34:35

Elihu said, “Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain: he multiplieth words without knowledge.” Job 35:16

The Lord said, “Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?” Job 38:2
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Elihu said, “If thou canst answer me, set they words in order before me, stand up.” Job 33:5

The Lord said, “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” Job 38:3
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Elihu said, “Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God. Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine? Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge? Job 37:14-16

The Lord said, “Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? Canst thou set the dominion therof in the earth? Canst thou lift up they voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?” Job 38:33-34

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Elihu said, “Shall even he that hateth right govern? And wilt thou condemn him that is most just?” Job 34-17

The Lord said, “Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? He that reproveth God, let him answer it.” Job 40:2

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Elihu said, “Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.” Job 32:2

Elihu said, “Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, my righteousness is more than God’s?” Job 35:2

The Lord said, “Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? Wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?” Job 40:8

 

[christophernyc]

The why part was the question. Was Job depending on God's righteousness, or was Job depending on Job's righteousness? It is a multiple choice. Seems easy enough.

I’ll clarify what I meant.

What I read as the first question deals with binary proposition you put forth of “what” Job is trusting in (i.e. his righteousness or God’s).

What I saw as the second question was “why” he was trusting in it, of which I answered.

But are you going to address the question as to why James would commend Job for being steadfast and persevering in his pride?

 

[christophernyc]

You are trying to present Elihu as a false prophet, but God confirms his words. Would you also condemn God. It is interesting that you promote Job above God. Remember, Job reproved God.

Elihu and God Comparison of Speech​

Elihu said, “Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.” Job 34:35

Elihu said, “Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain: he multiplieth words without knowledge.” Job 35:16

The Lord said, “Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?” Job 38:2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Elihu said, “If thou canst answer me, set they words in order before me, stand up.” Job 33:5

The Lord said, “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” Job 38:3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Elihu said, “Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God. Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine? Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge? Job 37:14-16

The Lord said, “Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? Canst thou set the dominion therof in the earth? Canst thou lift up they voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?” Job 38:33-34

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Elihu said, “Shall even he that hateth right govern? And wilt thou condemn him that is most just?” Job 34-17

The Lord said, “Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? He that reproveth God, let him answer it.” Job 40:2

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Elihu said, “Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.” Job 32:2

Elihu said, “Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, my righteousness is more than God’s?” Job 35:2

The Lord said, “Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? Wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?” Job 40:8

Happy to address Elihu as has been done before.

However, are you able to explain why James would commend Job in his epistle to believers if Job was perservering and remaining steadfast in his pride?

You have provided no explanation as to why Job would commend Job for this.

So before we move on to Elihu, will you admit now that there is a gaping hole in your whole interpretation of this book?

 

[tttallison]

I’ll clarify what I meant.

What I read as the first question deals with binary proposition you put forth of “what” Job is trusting in (i.e. his righteousness or God’s).

What I saw as the second question was “why” he was trusting in it, of which I answered.

But are you going to address the question as to why James would commend Job for being steadfast and persevering in his pride?

It was a simple single question, Job's righteousness or God's righteousness? Which one was Job's faith in?

Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Was it God's righteousness, or your own righteousness which saved you?

 

[tttallison]

Happy to address Elihu as has been done before.

However, are you able to explain why James would commend Job in his epistle to believers if Job was perservering and remaining steadfast in his pride?

You have provided no explanation as to why Job would commend Job for this.

So before we move on to Elihu, will you admit now that there is a gaping hole in your whole interpretation of this book?

I thought I had explained James statement in chapter 5, but obviously it was not clear enough.

In any study of scripture we must examine the context, for the context explains the meaning of the passage. The context here starts with the first verse of James 5.

Jas 5:1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.

The first verse obviously would include Job as he was the richest man of the East, and obviously Job was weeping and howling due to his miseries. (Job is in a parallel setting with Israel.)

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Jas 5:2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Jas 5:3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

Job said, Job 7:5 My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin is broken, and become loathsome. James 5:2-3 is obviously a picture of Job.

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Jas 5:4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.

Compare James 5:4 with Job 30:2 Yea, whereto might the strength of their hands profit me, in whom old age was perished? Job’s labourers were no longer any value to him.

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Jas 5:5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.

Job 29:6 When I washed my steps with butter, and the rock poured me out rivers of oil;

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Jas 5:6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

We know that Job was not there when Jesus was crucified, but isn’t our sin responsible for the crucifixion of Christ? It was all our sin that condemned Jesus.

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James has given us a picture of Israel. We know that Israel would sin, then be chastised by God, then be good for awhile, and then fall back into sin. With this thought in mind, James reminds them of the life of Job, how he endured God’s chastising. And in the end found salvation through God’s righteousness. It was when Job realized his righteousness was vile and he abhorred himself, that he accepted God’s righteousness.

The picture James portrays here is the same picture Paul portrayed in Romans ten.

Rom 10:1-4 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.



For conciseness James presented Job as an example of a wealthy rich man whom God had blessed, just as God had blessed Israel. Israel then falling back into sin because of their unredeemed nature, like unto Job, who was then chastised for that sin. James is telling Israel not to give up hope, but to hang in there like Job, who eventually realized that his problem was his pride.

 

[christophernyc]

I thought I had explained James statement in chapter 5, but obviously it was not clear enough.

In any study of scripture we must examine the context, for the context explains the meaning of the passage. The context here starts with the first verse of James 5.

Jas 5:1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.

The first verse obviously would include Job as he was the richest man of the East, and obviously Job was weeping and howling due to his miseries. (Job is in a parallel setting with Israel.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jas 5:2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Jas 5:3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

Job said, Job 7:5 My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin is broken, and become loathsome. James 5:2-3 is obviously a picture of Job.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jas 5:4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.

Compare James 5:4 with Job 30:2 Yea, whereto might the strength of their hands profit me, in whom old age was perished? Job’s labourers were no longer any value to him.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jas 5:5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.

Job 29:6 When I washed my steps with butter, and the rock poured me out rivers of oil;

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jas 5:6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.

We know that Job was not there when Jesus was crucified, but isn’t our sin responsible for the crucifixion of Christ? It was all our sin that condemned Jesus.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

James has given us a picture of Israel. We know that Israel would sin, then be chastised by God, then be good for awhile, and then fall back into sin. With this thought in mind, James reminds them of the life of Job, how he endured God’s chastising. And in the end found salvation through God’s righteousness. It was when Job realized his righteousness was vile and he abhorred himself, that he accepted God’s righteousness.

The picture James portrays here is the same picture Paul portrayed in Romans ten.

Rom 10:1-4 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.



For conciseness James presented Job as an example of a wealthy rich man whom God had blessed, just as God had blessed Israel. Israel then falling back into sin because of their unredeemed nature, like unto Job, who was then chastised for that sin. James is telling Israel not to give up hope, but to hang in there like Job, who eventually realized that his problem was his pride.

More to say about your response, but did you ever address the question regarding Job 13:23?

Job 13:23 (Job to God))
How many are my iniquities and my sins?
Make me know my transgression and my sin.

How do you explain why a proud person, full of self-righteousness and pride, would actively seek and eagerly ask to be shown his sin?

 

[tttallison]

More to say about your response, but did you ever address the question regarding Job 13:23?

Job 13:23 (Job to God))
How many are my iniquities and my sins?
Make me know my transgression and my sin.

How do you explain why a proud person, full of self-righteousness and pride, would actively seek and eagerly ask to be shown his sin?

Job, in his pride, thought he was good person. Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live. Job thought God to be unjust. Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause. Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent. Job felt God needed to explain himself. God responded to Job by saying, Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

Job thought God was unfair and requested a man like unto himself to stand in judgment between himself and God, therefore God sent Elihu in God's place.

Job was without knowledge, therefore he made many unwise (stupid) statements.

 

[christophernyc]

Job, in his pride, thought he was good person. Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live. Job thought God to be unjust. Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause. Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent. Job felt God needed to explain himself. God responded to Job by saying, Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

Job thought God was unfair and requested a man like unto himself to stand in judgment between himself and God, therefore God sent Elihu in God's place.

Job was without knowledge, therefore he made many unwise (stupid) statements.

So it appears you have no explanation for Job 13:23. Understood.

Job has lost his connection with God and knows that if God shows him his sin, he can repent and have his relationship with God restored.

So why does God not show Job his sin? Job is asking to have his sin revealed so it can be dealt with. But God is silent. Why?

The answer is again revealed through the epistle of James. One of the main themes in the letter from James is about a believers faith being *tested*. God’s silence to Job is part of that testing. Job’s faith in God is being tested, as we understand by reading chapters 1 & 2.

What do we know about Job during his test? We know, according to Scripture, that Job perseveres and endures his trial and is restored by God. Job proves to serve God’s purpose, which is why God consistently refers to Job to others only as “My Servant”.

 

[tttallison]

So it appears you have no explanation for Job 13:23. Understood.

Job has lost his connection with God and knows that if God shows him his sin, he can repent and have his relationship with God restored.

So why does God not show Job his sin? Job is asking to have his sin revealed so it can be dealt with. But God is silent. Why?

The answer is again revealed through the epistle of James. One of the main themes in the letter from James is about a believers faith being *tested*. God’s silence to Job is part of that testing. Job’s faith in God is being tested, as we understand by reading chapters 1 & 2.

What do we know about Job during his test? We know, according to Scripture, that Job perseveres and endures his trial and is restored by God. Job proves to serve God’s purpose, which is why God consistently refers to Job to others only as “My Servant”.

You obviously did not appreciate my answer to Job 13:23.

God wasn't silent about Job's sin. (Job said.) Job 7:14Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
(Elihu said) Job 33:14-18 For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. n a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed; Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction, That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man. He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.

God sent Elihu to answer all of Job's questions. We would be wise to hear the voice of Elihu.

You are not even acknowledging that Job had two tests. Job failed the second test when he did not bless God, nor did God give Job a passing grade in the second test.

There are different kinds of servants. good servants, bad servants, bond servants, free servants, and hirelings. According to Job he was a hireling who wanted to be free from his master. Nebuchadnezzar was God's servant. Hirelings couldn't partake of the Passover Lamb.

 

[christophernyc]

You obviously did not appreciate my answer to Job 13:23.

You answer appears non-existent. Where is your response to Job 13:23 where Job seeks God asking Him to reveal to him his sin?

The closest thing I could find in your response was this statement:

Job was without knowledge, therefore he made many unwise (stupid) statements.

So your substantive answer is that Job was saying something stupid in Job 13:23?

God wasn't silent about Job's sin.

When Job cried out to God in earnest prayer, there was no immediate answer from God. This silence was part of Job's test and trial. Yet we know, Job remained faithful to God regardless of this temporary silence from God. He consistently prayed and sought God throughout his ordeal.

God does not speak to Job until chapter 38.

It appears you really have no good answer as to why a "proud" and "self-righteous" person would seek God in prayer and ask God to reveal to his sin. Your response appears bereft of any substantive explanation.

This is because Job was not persevering and enduring "in his pride" as you claim. That is obviously false.

No, Job was persevering in his *faith* in God, as supported by the writings of the apostle James in his epistle.

 

[tttallison]

You answer appears non-existent. Where is your response to Job 13:23 where Job seeks God asking Him to reveal to him his sin?

The closest thing I could find in your response was this statement:


So your substantive answer is that Job was saying something stupid in Job 13:23?



When Job cried out to God in earnest prayer, there was no immediate answer from God. This silence was part of Job's test and trial. Yet we know, Job remained faithful to God regardless of this temporary silence from God. He consistently prayed and sought God throughout his ordeal.

God does not speak to Job until chapter 38.

It appears you really have no good answer as to why a "proud" and "self-righteous" person would seek God in prayer and ask God to reveal to his sin. Your response appears bereft of any substantive explanation.

This is because Job was not persevering and enduring "in his pride" as you claim. That is obviously false.

No, Job was persevering in his *faith* in God, as supported by the writings of the apostle James in his epistle.

christophernyc you asked the question, "So why does God not show Job his sin?" And my answer was that God did answer Job. We know that God answered Job because Job stated that God had terrified him with visions and dreams, and then Elihu goes on to explain the answer in a manner we can understand. Here is that answer from Elihu again. --------

Job 33:14-18 (Elihu speaking.) For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed; Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction, That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man. He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.

God spoke to Job in visions and dreams that terrified Job, and the purpose of those visions and dreams to withdraw Job from his purpose, and to hide pride from Job, so that Job's soul might be saved. Can you explain why this isn't true, and if you don't believe its true, can you explain why God gave Job those terrifying dreams and visions?

 

[christophernyc]

christophernyc you asked the question, "So why does God not show Job his sin?" And my answer was that God did answer Job. We know that God answered Job because Job stated that God had terrified him with visions and dreams, and then Elihu goes on to explain the answer in a manner we can understand. Here is that answer from Elihu again. --------

Job 33:14-18 (Elihu speaking.) For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed; Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction, That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man. He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.

God spoke to Job in visions and dreams that terrified Job, and the purpose of those visions and dreams to withdraw Job from his purpose, and to hide pride from Job, so that Job's soul might be saved. Can you explain why this isn't true, and if you don't believe its true, can you explain why God gave Job those terrifying dreams and visions?

Can you please clarify what you meant by your statement I addressed? You wrote:

Job was without knowledge, therefore he made many unwise (stupid) statements.

Is that your opinion regarding Job's words in Job 13:23?

Job 13:23 (Job to God))
How many are my iniquities and my sins?
Make me know my transgression and my sin.

 

[tttallison]

Can you please clarify what you meant by your statement I addressed? You wrote:



Is that your opinion regarding Job's words in Job 13:23?

Job 13:23 (Job to God))
How many are my iniquities and my sins?
Make me know my transgression and my sin.

Why do you confusticate every thing I say, and avoid answering questions? You continually prop up Job at the expense of God.

Some of the stupid statements Job made were saying that he suffered without cause, that God would laugh at the trial of the innocent, that God covers the faces of the judges, that Job's heart would never condemn him, and that he wanted to be free from his master.

 

[christophernyc]

Why do you confusticate every thing I say, and avoid answering questions? You continually prop up Job at the expense of God.

Some of the stupid statements Job made were saying that he suffered without cause, that God would laugh at the trial of the innocent, that God covers the faces of the judges, that Job's heart would never condemn him, and that he wanted to be free from his master.

So I can understand what you mean exactly, I asked for clarification. Is that ok with you?

When Job prays to God in the midst of his suffering and asks God to reveal to him his sin, are you saying that Job is saying something stupid?

Job 13:23 (Job to God))
How many are my iniquities and my sins?
Make me know my transgression and my sin.

 

[tttallison]

So I can understand what you mean exactly, I asked for clarification. Is that ok with you?

When Job prays to God in the midst of his suffering and asks God to reveal to him his sin, are you saying that Job is saying something stupid?

Job 13:23 (Job to God))
How many are my iniquities and my sins?
Make me know my transgression and my sin.

No! I am saying that God answered Job with terrifying dreams and visions, because Job said so. Job 7:14Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:-------
And Elihu made it clear. Job 33:14-18 (Elihu speaking.) For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed; Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction, That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man. He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.