More about Israel.

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The land of Israel was a waste land. Only when the jews returned did it prosper.

Former Palestine was not a small population as often falsely reported.
It was self sufficient and never costed America a cent.
America also had no enemies in the middle east at that time and was a fast rising world power.
How much has America spent on modern Israel and the Middle East by now?
 
This might shine a little light on the subject..
If God was through with the jews then why does he leave a remnant? Why not Sodom and Gomorrah them. Or make them a forgotten nation or people's as he did with others?

Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn .

Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Kinda makes you look at the story of the prodigal son from a different perspective 🤔 not to take away from any teachings that is offered.

That light already got shon on the subject, as every commenter here already understands that the free offer of the gospel continues to be to the Jews.
 
Former Palestine was not a small population as often falsely reported.
It was self sufficient and never costed America a cent.
America also had no enemies in the middle east at that time and was a fast rising world power.
How much has America spent on modern Israel and the Middle East by now?
most of our tax money 💰 went there.
 
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And this is going to wash away people s sins?
I have said previously that the third temple is rebellion against God. Many sceptics have said that it can't be built. Guess again, O unbelieving ones. There must be a third temple so that the Antichrist can defile the holiest place and proclaim himself God. Yes, it's happened before. However, the book of Revelation was written after the destruction of Herod's temple. The first temple was also destroyed as a result of Israel's disobedience. (See 2 Thessalonians 2:4)​
 
I have said previously that the third temple is rebellion against God. Many sceptics have said that it can't be built. Guess again, O unbelieving ones. There must be a third temple so that the Antichrist can defile the holiest place and proclaim himself God. Yes, it's happened before. However, the book of Revelation was written after the destruction of Herod's temple. The first temple was also destroyed as a result of Israel's disobedience. (See 2 Thessalonians 2:4)​
So you agree that is all pagan worship.
If so, true Christians should not support pagan worship.
 
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So you agree that is all pagan worship.
If so, true Christians should not support pagan worship.
I do not support the building of the third temple. I for sure would not go to live in Israel. God will save Israel, (Romans 11:26) but they will go through hell on earth first. The only question I addressed originally was whether or not Israel existed according to God's will. It does. Get over it.​
 
I do not support the building of the third temple. I for sure would not go to live in Israel. God will save Israel, (Romans 11:26) but they will go through hell on earth first. The only question I addressed originally was whether or not Israel existed according to God's will. It does. Get over it.​
The sun will not come up today if it is not in God's will.

What i don't get over is so called Christians support pagan practices, abominations of God.

At least the isreal state group clearly reject Jesus. But the so called Christians play double sides.
 
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Some of the historical evidence for the Date of the Apocalypse:

Irenaeus, - Polycarp’s disciple, who was himself the disciple of the apostle John, - Speaking of the name and number of the Beast in the Apocalypse, says, that had this been a matter then to be made known, it would have been disclosed by him who saw the Apocalypse: "for it [the Apocalypse evidently] was seen no very long time ago; but almost in our age, towards the end of the reign of Domitian" [1]

Attempts that have been made to get rid of this testimony, and force another meaning on Irenaeus’ words, by those wanting the Apocalypse to fit there theories,[2]

Tertullian seems to indicate this view of the Apocalyptic date. For in his Apology, after specifying Nero’s as the first imperial persecution, and this one by the sword, (wherein, as he elsewhere says,[3] Paul and Peter suffered, no mention being made of John, he proceeds to notice Domitian as the next persecution, and this as one in which Christians suffered by banishment, the well-known punishment inflicted on John.,[4] It is evident that Eusebius thus understands Tertulian; I mean as alluding to John’s banishment as the act of Domitian.[5]

Clement of Alexandria indirectly, but I think clearly, confirms the statement. In relating the well-known story of John and the robber, he speaks of it as acted out by the apostle on his return from exile in Patmos, "after the death of the tyrant;"[6] and represents him as at that time an infirm old man.[7]

Now "the tyrant" whose death is referred to, must necessarily be either Nero or Domitian; as these were, up to the end of the first century, the only imperial persecutors of the Christian body. And Nero it can scarcely be: since, at the time of Nero’s persecution, John was by no means an infirm old man; being probably not much above, if indeed so much as, sixty years of age.[8] Thus it must have been the tyrant Domitian. So, in fact, Eusebius expressly explains Clement to mean.[9]

Victorinus, Bishop of Pettaw, and martyr in Diocletian’s persecution, in a Commentary on the Apocalypse written towards the close of the third century, says twice, that the Apocalypse was seen by the Apostle John in the Isle of Patmos, when banished thither by the Roman Emperor Domitian.[10]

There is no evidence that in Nero persecution banishment to the islands with its usual penal accompaniments, was one of the punishments then put in force against accused Christians: whereas, on the other hand, we have direct profane historic testimony in proof that that particular punishment was enforced against persons accused of Christianity in the persecution by Domitian.

Dion Cassius expressly mentions the liberation from exile of those whom Domitian had banished on the charge of atheism, (i. e. of Christianity,) by the Emperor Nerva on his accession: ´Ο Νερουαις τους τε κοινομενους επ ασεβειρι αφηκε και τους φευγοντας κατηγαγε
—a fact precisely agreeing with the ecclesiastical tradition as to St. John’s liberation occurring on that Emperor’s death (whoever he was) had banished him to Patmos.

The varied historical evidence confirms the date originally and expressly assigned by Irenaeus to the Apocalypse, as seen and written at the close of the reign of Domitian; that is, near the end of the year 95, or beginning: of 96. Domitian was assassinated September A. D. 96.

Notes:

[1]The following is the passage, which I quote in full from Eusebius, H. E. iii. 18. Γραφων γε τοι ό Ειρηναιος περι της ψηφου της κατατον Αντιχριστον προσηγοριας εν τη Ιωαννου λεγομρνη Αποκαλυψει αυταις συλλαβαις εν πεμπτψ των προς τας αίρεσεις ταυτα περι του Ιωαννου φησιν. Ει δε εδει αναφανδον εν τψ νυν καιρψ κηρυττεσθαι τονομα αυτου δί εκεινου ανερρεθη του και την Αποκαλυψιν έωρακοτος ουδε γαρ προ πολλου χρονου εωραθν αλλα σχεδον επι της ήμετερας γενας προς τψ τελε της Δουετιανου αρχης.

[2]Michaelis, p. 525, thus candidly acknowledges the origin and object of these attempts. "Several modern commentators, who wish to refer the Apocalypse to the reign of Nero, that they may be better able to explain its prophecies, contend that the words of Ireufeus have been misunderstood by ecclesiastical writers, and that Ireufeus did not mean to say that the Revelation was seen in the reign of Domitian."

[3]Scorpiac. c. l5.

[4] "Teutaverat Domitianus, portio Neronis de crudelitate; scd, uia et homo, facile cncptum rcpressit, restitutis etiaui quos relegaverat." Apol. c. 5. The verb relego is used by him elsewhere of St. John’s exile to Patmos. Dc Praise. 36.

[5]Euseb. H .E. iii. 20.

[6]Quis Dives Salvetur, chap.. xlii. The story is copied by Eusebius into his H; E. iii. 23, and begins thus Επειδη γαρ του τυραννον τελευτησαντος απο της Πατμου της νησου μετηλθεν εις την Εφεσον.

[7]The statement, επιλαθομενος της ήλικιας της έαυτου, and the appellative, τον γεροντα both occur in reference to him: the latter twice over.

[8]For he is supposed to have been considerably younger than our Lord, The traditionary reports of his age at the time of his death all tend to that conclusion. And Jerome, Adv. Jovin Lib. i. c. 14, says expressly of his age when first called by Christ; "Ut autem sciamus tunc fuisse puerum manifestissime decent ecclesiasticae historiae." Now Nero’s persecution broke out in the year of our Lord 64, and ended with Nero’s death, A.D. 68

[9]H. E. ubi sup.

[10]On Apoc. X. 11, "Thou must prophesy again," he observes; "Hoc est quoniam, quando hoc ndit Joannes, erat in insula. I’athmos, in metallura damuatus a Bomitiano Caesare. Ibi ergo vidit Apocalypsim:et cum senior jam putaret se per passionem accepturum receptionem, iuterfecto Domitiano omnia judicia ejus soluta sunt; et Joannes, de raetallo dimissus, sic postea tradidit banc eandem quam acceperat a Domino Apocalypsim."

Thanks, that is the classical argument for the view that Revelations was written in 95AD.
I have already described it as "flimsy at best", so now I feel compelled to explain myself.

It seems to me that the backbone of the argument hangs on the Irenaeus quote that you gave us a translation of.
This translation of course reflects the understanding of Eusebius, who passed it on to us in his commentary on Irenaeus.
The critical line in the quote as you have written it here is:
"for it (the Apocalypse evidently) was seen no very long time ago;"
The reason this translation is disputed is that there is a single Greek word for "it was seen" that can be grammatically translated into "he/she or it was seen".
In the context it may mean that "he" John was seen or "it" the book of Revelations was seen.
You may think I am biased by the historical interpretation I already have of the book, but in reading the entire quote it seems to me that Irenaeus' thoughts make more rational sense if he was referring to John.

if we were to approach the matter not through the church Fathers, but through familiarity with the book and a basic understanding of the major events of the time, including the kings, kingdoms and high priests, what would we conclude about the beast that comes out of the sea, the beast that comes out of the land and the Mother of Harlots?
 
That light already got shon on the subject, as every commenter here already understands that the free offer of the gospel continues to be to the Jews.
The 'free offer' extends to everyone... and yes, it does INCLUDE those who share the faith Jesus was born into.
 
Thanks, that is the classical argument for the view that Revelations was written in 95AD.
I have already described it as "flimsy at best", so now I feel compelled to explain myself.

It seems to me that the backbone of the argument hangs on the Irenaeus quote that you gave us a translation of.
This translation of course reflects the understanding of Eusebius, who passed it on to us in his commentary on Irenaeus.
The critical line in the quote as you have written it here is:
"for it (the Apocalypse evidently) was seen no very long time ago;"
The reason this translation is disputed is that there is a single Greek word for "it was seen" that can be grammatically translated into "he/she or it was seen".
In the context it may mean that "he" John was seen or "it" the book of Revelations was seen.
You may think I am biased by the historical interpretation I already have of the book, but in reading the entire quote it seems to me that Irenaeus' thoughts make more rational sense if he was referring to John.

if we were to approach the matter not through the church Fathers, but through familiarity with the book and a basic understanding of the major events of the time, including the kings, kingdoms and high priests, what would we conclude about the beast that comes out of the sea, the beast that comes out of the land and the Mother of Harlots?
And throw out all the secular Historical evidence also ? Nero was bloodthirsty he believed in killing and making entertainment out of his victims. Whereas Domitian was known for banishing political prisoner's and Christians that he called atheism. When he was assassinated September A. D. 96, Nerva became Emperor and to curry favour with his subjects he liberated from exile all of those whom Domitian had banished. So if we believe what John says about being at Patmos in the text it gives a date of around 96AD.

It is easy the further away from time you get - to cast doubt in peoples minds, after all today they claim Jesus and Moses never existed, you could not get away with that nearer the time.
 
Thanks, that is the classical argument for the view that Revelations was written in 95AD.
I have already described it as "flimsy at best", so now I feel compelled to explain myself.

It seems to me that the backbone of the argument hangs on the Irenaeus quote that you gave us a translation of.
This translation of course reflects the understanding of Eusebius, who passed it on to us in his commentary on Irenaeus.
The critical line in the quote as you have written it here is:
"for it (the Apocalypse evidently) was seen no very long time ago;"
The reason this translation is disputed is that there is a single Greek word for "it was seen" that can be grammatically translated into "he/she or it was seen".
In the context it may mean that "he" John was seen or "it" the book of Revelations was seen.
You may think I am biased by the historical interpretation I already have of the book, but in reading the entire quote it seems to me that Irenaeus' thoughts make more rational sense if he was referring to John.

if we were to approach the matter not through the church Fathers, but through familiarity with the book and a basic understanding of the major events of the time, including the kings, kingdoms and high priests, what would we conclude about the beast that comes out of the sea, the beast that comes out of the land and the Mother of Harlots?
No one but GOD HIMself knows the date or the time... to try to seek them is absolute folly. As our Christ taught, be ready always.....
 
Thanks, that is the classical argument for the view that Revelations was written in 95AD.
I have already described it as "flimsy at best", so now I feel compelled to explain myself.

It seems to me that the backbone of the argument hangs on the Irenaeus quote that you gave us a translation of.
This translation of course reflects the understanding of Eusebius, who passed it on to us in his commentary on Irenaeus.
The critical line in the quote as you have written it here is:
"for it (the Apocalypse evidently) was seen no very long time ago;"
The reason this translation is disputed is that there is a single Greek word for "it was seen" that can be grammatically translated into "he/she or it was seen".
In the context it may mean that "he" John was seen or "it" the book of Revelations was seen.
You may think I am biased by the historical interpretation I already have of the book, but in reading the entire quote it seems to me that Irenaeus' thoughts make more rational sense if he was referring to John.

if we were to approach the matter not through the church Fathers, but through familiarity with the book and a basic understanding of the major events of the time, including the kings, kingdoms and high priests, what would we conclude about the beast that comes out of the sea, the beast that comes out of the land and the Mother of Harlots?
Just want to add one more thing. Personally I do not care what date Revelation was written. So long as it was written before the events predicted and not after. Like they used to accuse the book of Daniel of being written after the events predicted took place, until they found an ancient copy of it in the dead sea scrolls. I realise the date of the writing of Revelation is important to Preterist because they want everything fulfilled in Nero and 70AD, but I do not have that burden :)
 
Former Palestine was not a small population as often falsely reported.
It was self sufficient and never costed America a cent.
America also had no enemies in the middle east at that time and was a fast rising world power.
How much has America spent on modern Israel and the Middle East by now?

And how much has America prospered by supporting Israel.
So you would be satisfied with the middle east being totally run by Iran and its influence on the region.
God siad he would regather and he has and is. GOD siad he will place his throne in Iran and he will.
How would this be accomplished without the interventions of such.

It seems to me that what I believe and some here that our views on prophecy seem to be coming to pass, I really can't believe you and others can't see that. I mean its really not a stretch of the imagination.
I think it has something to do with Rev 18 being Israel as your view. Maybe I'm wrong🤔 but what is seen is seen.
In other words if it looks like a duck???.....
 
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And throw out all the secular Historical evidence also ? Nero was bloodthirsty he believed in killing and making entertainment out of his victims. Whereas Domitian was known for banishing political prisoner's and Christians that he called atheism. When he was assassinated September A. D. 96, Nerva became Emperor and to curry favour with his subjects he liberated from exile all of those whom Domitian had banished. So if we believe what John says about being at Patmos in the text it gives a date of around 96AD.

It is easy the further away from time you get - to cast doubt in peoples minds, after all today they claim Jesus and Moses never existed, you could not get away with that nearer the time.

The date is before 70 AD.
This has already been established several times over, you are slowly changing/revealing your view, interesting. ;)
This “deadly wound” was then “healed” in 1929 with the signing of “The Lateran Treaty” upon Caelian Hill.
A rather novel interpretation wouldn't you say?