Calvinism is Gospel !

[Cameron143]

What you say is really not worth remembering.
We just move on and think to ourselves... "There goes Cameron again".

So, like others, you are content to make false statements void of evidence and reason to yourself it is okay to do so. No doubt led by the Spirit to do so.

 

[Cameron143]

Paul said....

​

Romans 7:18-19​

​

For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. ​

For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not ​

do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.​

Before regeneration and grace took over his thinking Paul could not do the good that he knew was good even as unsaved!
Paul chose for good, but did not have the power to carry it out.

So, grace makes the way for our good volitional choices!
Grace makes us able to do good as we choose when they are right choices.
Good choices which developed from our maturing values that come from having a steady diet of sound doctrinal teachings.

But, grace can not honor power when what our choice is based upon false doctrine.

God did not make Paul choose for the good.
For, Paul was already choosing for good even when grace was not enabling for its fulfillment.
He knew what was good before he was saved.
He just did not have the power to do the good!

So much for the total depravity of man.
For man would not want to choose for good when powerless to do it, if we were totally depraved!

If you are referring to Romans 7, there is the line of thought that Paul is referencing the process of salvation. If so, it is grace that is leading him to the aforementioned understanding that is being expressed. God opening his understanding just as Jesus opened the understanding of His companions on the road to Emmaus. Except the end of his understanding is to cry out to God for deliverance.

 

[Journey_man]

The fact that you blame Arminias shows that you have not gone far enough back in history to understand the true roots of is now called Calvinism. The Catholic Bishop Augustine of Hippo is the primary figure responsible for importing ideas about theistic determinism, original sin and total human inability into the pure stream of the apostolic gospel. The generations of Greek-speaking Patristic writers prior to Augustine (d. 430 AD) overwhelmingly affirmed human free will and actively refuted philosophical or theological determinism as incompatible with Christian teaching.

I discovered this after I began studying how the Patristic "fathers" interpreted scriptures differently than Augustine, Martin Luther and Zwingli. I found that Augustinians had, in crucial ways, had abandoned key aspects of what was originally understood to be the good news of salvation by making it into a sort of lottery no one had any ability to choose.

Here is what Calvinist theologian and historian Loraine Boettner said about this shift in thinking:
“The earlier church fathers [those before Augustine]. . . taught that salvation was through Christ; yet they assumed that man had full power to accept or reject the gospel. Some of their writings contain passages in which the sovereignty of God is recognized; yet alongside of those are others which teach the absolute freedom of the human will.” [11]

[11] Loraine Boettner, Calvinism in History, Monergism.com, http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/boettner/boettner_calvinism.html#chapter1, ch. 1, para. 1, accessed 9/4/19.

The inclusion of theistic DETERMINISM as an essential PART of the gospel did not come about as the result of biblical exegesis. Instead, it was absorbed from the many DETERMINISTIC religions that existed at that time such as Gnosticism, Stoicism, or Manichaeism. All of these taught unilateral determinism which is the the belief that all events, including human actions, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will.

This was one reason for the Great Schizm which divided the Church. The Western (Catholic) half followed Augustine spoke primarily Latin while the Eastern (Orthodox) who still spoke Greek continued following what had been taught by the teachers during the centuries after the Apostles.

It is no coincidence that Augustine had been a member of the cult of Manichaeism for 9 years prior to his conversion. The name Manichaeism comes from the name of the founder of that movement - the Persian "prophet" MANI. The extent of Augustine's knowledge of their beiefs can be demonstrated in how Augustine quoted the Persian Gnostic prophet Mani directly and emphatically in his writings, primarily from two specific works: the Epistula fundamenti (Fundamental Epistle) and the Thesaurus (Treasure [of Life]). Augustine claimed he was capable of quoting “innumerable passages from the books of Mani.” Manichaeism, taught a strong form of soteriological determinism, meaning that one’s spiritual fate was largely predetermined by the mixture of light and darkness within them.

It is exceptionally difficult, if not impossible, to find quotations in the historical Christian writings before Augustine that support a doctrine of hard determinism before the fifth century when Augustine lived. These are historical facts that can be discovered by comparing what Augustine wrote and what had been taught over the first three centuries BEFORE him by the Church fathers who, unlike Augustine, could still read the Greek language of the NT and the writings of the Greek-speaking Church Fathers that came after the Apostles.

I think it is necessary for all seekers of the truth to search these matters out and find out what the Bible does and does not say

The early Church was plagued by Gnosticism, so I haven't put much stock into what post apostolic Church Fathers taught.

Our generation is the most knowledgeable in all of human history, we enjoy the benefit of 2000 years of Church refinement. Every single bible doctrine has been fully studied and all of the previous, misinterpretations and false doctrines have thoroughly dealt with and corrected.

Looking to the early Church for instruction and guidance, is like going back to rubbing two sticks together to start a fire, while you have a box of matches in your pocket.
I'd don't think it's profitable to debate man made doctrines, I'd rather consider what the Bible reveals about this "free will" and "free choice" doctrine.

The Bible teaches that unbelievers have a restricted, uncoerced will, but lack the spiritual ability to freely choose God. Unbelievers make real choices based on their sinful nature, but they are spiritually dead and bound by sin, meaning they cannot choose righteousness without prior divine regeneration.

People are not robots and are never forced against their desires; they always choose what they most want. An unbeliever's heart is hostile to God, so their desires remain thoroughly fallen and opposed to spiritual good. Because Scripture describes the unregenerate as "dead in sins" (Ephesians 2:1), they possess zero native capacity or moral power to lift themselves or choose Christ.

Romans 3:10–12: "None is righteous, no, not one... no one seeks for God", demonstrating the complete directional bias of the fallen human heart.

1 Corinthians 2:14: "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God... and he is not able to understand them," pointing to a profound cognitive and spiritual inability.

John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him," highlighting that the starting point of salvation is divine action, not human volition.

 

[Journey_man]

Saved by works? Nope, saved by grace through the Lord Jesus Christ. God's righteousness through Jesus Christ is imputed to those who believe.

Those who are saved, are saved by grace, through faith. Do you believe that both "grace and faith are gifts that God only gives to His elect.

You say "God's righteousness through Jesus Christ is imputed to those who believe". That's true, but the question is, why do believers believe. Are you suggesting that they were born smarter than the unbelievers, or did they produce their own faith and cash it in like a token to receive salvation in return.

You have never revealed what you actually believe about salvation.

 

[awelight]

Cite one Scripture that you think supports the tulip tree. Tulip teaches five heretical beliefs, beginning with divine hate and favoritism, whereas Scripture interpreted in context clearly teaches that God loves all of humanity and wants every soul to be saved.

Spiritual death/depravity is remedied by repentance/seeking truth, which every sinner is free to do until they become totally depraved.
SPUR

At this point, why would I do that? You have been given numerous verses of Scripture by myself and others - yet you reject all of them. Additionally, you seem blind to the principles taught throughout the Bible from Gen. 1:1 to Rev. 22:21.

You don't really care about TULIP. Your responses, show clearly, you hate the idea that God exercised His Sovereignty in election. I and others have attempted to explain why this was necessary. Surely you don't deny that God exercises His sovereignty throughout the Bible? Then why is it so hard to understand He does this in salvation also.

Look at the Biblical facts for a moment.

In the KJV:

Chosen -- is found in 107 verses of the Bible. The majority are in the OT but 12 are in the NT, related to God choosing. Examples:

Deu_7:6 For thou art a holy people unto Jehovah thy God: Jehovah thy God hath chosen thee to be a people for his own possession, above all peoples that are upon the face of the earth.
Rev_17:14 These shall war against the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings; and they also shall overcome that are with him, called and chosen and faithful.
Chose -- is used in 7 verses of the NT. Examples:

Mar_13:20 And except the Lord had shortened the days, no flesh would have been saved; but for the elect's sake, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
2Th_2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Elect -- is used in 19 verses of the NT. Examples:

Mat_24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Rom_8:33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifies;
Election -- is used in 6 verses of the NT. Examples:

Rom_9:11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calls,
1Th_1:4 knowing, brethren beloved of God, your election,

Do you think, that by resting on your interpretation of John 3:16, you can nullify the facts of God's Word? He is SOVEREIGN in all things and over all things.

 

[awelight]

You don't have free will. Obviously.

No I do not. I have a will that was once enslaved by sin but now is enslaved to Jesus Christ.

 

[awelight]

Do you think this is about you?

That response is childish and makes no sense at all.

Are you interested in an adult conversation or not? If not -- I will cut my responses to your posts.

 

[DavidLamb]

Are you not the same Cameron from this and other threads past that twists both scripture and what people respond to you with?

Don't clutch your pearls now. They aren't real.

You and a few others here follow a pattern of generously dispensing insults and reacting with absurd feigned shock when people call you out on it. The pattern allows for you to call into question the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with you. This is your calling card and an invitation to meet you on your home turf by responding with language similar to yours.

I do not consider your explanations to be faithful to scripture and that hardly means that I am in a sad state.

You always end up throwing insults when you cannot address scripture with that Calvinist twist you love so much. Your insults simply end up becoming a part of you since I don't deserve them.

I feel I must come to the defence of Cameron143. I have read many of his posts, on this thread and elsewhere, and have never seen one where he insults anybody. Obviously he disagrees with some other posters, but that isn't an insult. It would only become insulting if he was rude to the person to whom he was replying. Do you have any instance where he has shown rudeness?

 

[Journey_man]

Genesis 6:5 is referring to the world near the time of Noah’s flood, not humanity of all time periods.

If unsaved people cannot respond to God, why did Jesus preach “repent and believe the gospel”?


Mark 1

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Today’s world is no better in its moral and spiritual nature than the world described in Genesis 6:5 Human nature remains deeply fallen, yet God restrains total societal collapse.

The Lord Jesus preached repentance to unbelievers because the outward command exposes human sin and moral responsibility, serves as the instrument God uses to inwardly regenerate the elect, and measures human guilt.
Humanity's fallen nature means people lack the native desire or power to turn to God. Commands to repent prove that man's inability is a moral unwillingness, not a lack of physical capacity or a violation of free will.

Preaching is the external call, while the human voice speaks the command outwardly, the Holy Spirit carries the internal, life-giving power (monergistic regeneration) to the elect, granting the exact ability to believe and repent that the command demands.

The sinners accountability remains intact. Because God is the rightful Creator, He has the absolute right to demand perfection and repentance from all people, regardless of whether sin has corrupted their ability to obey.

 

[awelight]

Referring to your post to heishere right above, is anything but humble. Hence my post. The fact you think you have been attacked because I pointed out your superior opinion of yourself is typical of those who fancy themselves 'humble'.

I will have to stop there for reasons that people who are not as humble as you, might understand.

If you truly knew me, you would know this is a terrible characterization of me. I think you confuse humility for weakness and false piety. One can be humble and yet strong and as bold as a lion. By God's grace -- When it comes to the defense of the Faith, I fear no man. This is not pompous or self-righteous. This is what conviction through the Spirit looks like.

2Co 10:2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.

 

[Journey_man]

You are forgetting?

Noah had the ability to make right choices.
Was he not also a man?

I haven't forgotten that Noah was born dead in his sin, like the rest of humanity. But he was regenerated by the Holy Spirit, and given the gift of grace and faith which resulted in his regeneration and salvation.

The OT Saints were under the same covenant of grace as the rest of us throughout human history. There has only ever been one way of salvation for Gods elect.

 

[Journey_man]

1Tim. 2:3-4.

1 Tim 2:3-4 is not saying that God has an effective, universal desire to save every single individual human being. Instead, the "all people" means "all classes and kinds of people".

Paul tells believers to pray for "all people," specifically listing kings and men of every rank, race, nation, and social status—not every single human being. God saves people from both high and low stations in life without distinction.

God genuinely commands all people everywhere to repent and presents a universal invitation, which reflects what is pleasing and right to Him. God's secret, sovereign choice (election) ensures the actual salvation of specific individuals.
If God had a sovereign, effective desire to save every single person, universalism would result, which contradicts Scripture's teaching on final judgment.

 

[awelight]

Election of Ephesians 1:4 speaks of what?
Those chosen "in Him."

Chosen for what?
To be His bride!

For he chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. ​

Just like Eve was in Adam's side before she was revealed?
We are now seated with Him (in Him) in heavenly places.

We had been selected and elected out of all those whom God knows will believe, to be made the Bride of Christ.
He knew we would believe and then chose!

Not all believers have been elected to our position for eternity living.

Moses is not going to be the Bride.
Neither will David be.
For they were not Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world to be so!

God the Father sovereignly chose out from all the souls He knew would believe, only some to become the Bride for His Son.

That is what we have been elected for. Not to believe. But, because He knows we would believe!

God makes sense.

Sadly... I see some preacher has been filling you with this ole tired nonsense. Follow my argument for a moment.

You stated: "God the Father sovereignly chose out from all the souls He knew would believe, only some to become the Bride for His Son."
Please -- I want you to think about what you just said for a moment. Perhaps you will see the error in this thought process. Particularly in this part of your statement: .."God the Father sovereignly chose out from all the souls He knew would believe,..."
Do you see what is wrong with this statement? It has to do with "sovereignty". What is sovereignty?

Our modern dictionary would define it as: 1). Supremacy of authority; 2). Complete independence in all things.
The Bible defines it as: God is the supreme ruler over all creation, possessing absolute authority, complete control, and the right to do as He pleases without constraint.

Psa. 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: He hath done whatsoever he pleased.
Psa. 135:6 Whatsoever Jehovah pleased, that hath he done, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps;

Do you see the problem with your view? Sovereignty is God's unrestrained free choice. He does as He pleases.
Your view takes away His sovereignty and attempts to replace it with a conditional election. He cannot elect until He looks down through the river of time and knows who will believe in His Son. However, if God is sovereign, and He is, then He unconditionally elects those to believe in His Son, for reasons that seemed good to Him because it pleased Him to do so.

Do you see where I am coming from?

Also, Eph. 1:4, according to the context, has nothing to do with the Bride of Christ. There will be a Bride of Christ but it is not under discussion in these verses.

Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
Eph 1:5 having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved:

Believers - were placed into Christ before the foundation of the world. Before anything was created. For the purpose of being a holy and righteous people for God, by God and through God. He foreordained (or predestinated), believers to adoption into His family, through the salvation work of Christ. God did this to the good pleasure of His will. For the purpose of praise to His glory because of His grace unto believers.

It is all about God.

 

[Journey_man]

Why do I see you sitting in a corner with your back to the class?

How many times, I said, HOW MANY TIMES, do I boldly have to go where no Arminian or Calvinist has ever gone and state I am neither?

If you were able to retain information we could have a different conversation but it seems the hounds of Calvinism ride you very hard and have taught you to never color outside the lines.


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OK, so if neither God or the individual have any say in the matter, then it only leaves Mickey Mouse. Right!

I'd really love to know what your secret, non existent third option is. Nobody has ever been able to identify it, so you might be onto something big here.

 

[Journey_man]

The only thing I believed when I was born, is that I was hungry. I know that, because my mother told me that and also because it is the same for every single creature born on this planet.

I was not dead. I actually was a very active child and people were sure I was going to doing myself harm. A few times I did.

At 5, being introduced to Jesus at Sunday School, I came to believe. While kneeling by a picture window on a cold winter night, I watched my dad trying to get the car out of a big snow drift and it was just not happening. I decided, in my 5 year old little brain, that if God were real as I had been told, I would find out by asking Him to help my dad get the car out of the drift. We were going to go to visit my mom who was in the hospital.

The car practically shot out of the drift and I immediately bowed my head and, like children do, asked Jesus to 'come into my heart' and be my Savior, dispicable, unregenerate reprobate that I was. I did not see angels and no one put a crown on my noggin but I believed and God answered me.

So you know what there man on a journey? You have many many more miles to go in your journey before you experience the great 'I AM' as I have, so pack a big lunch, get your camel saddled, and pray God grants you safety and directs you on HIS path and not the path of those who pray to the golden calf they made of their Calvinism

A 5 year old doesn't have the capacity to understand what being born again means. Your testimony is more like a Fairy-tale. But it sounds like you were quite capable of sin. If you weren't born dead in your trespasses and sin, then Gods Word is not true.

So you put me in a terrible position where I'm forced to choose between your private opinion and Gods Word.

You don't even hold to systematic theology, your theology is all fragmented, inconsistent and incoherent. Those of us who rightly divide the Word of God, never struggle with all of these contradictions and inconsistencies, our theology is in perfect harmony with the whole counsel of God.

We don't need to twist any scripture to make it fit our narrative, as you do.

 

[GWH]

You Arminians always pluck verses of scripture, out of their intended context and force them to conform to Arminianism.

If you understood the verses above, you would realise that the conviction by the Holy Spirit in verse 8 serves to manifest God's justice and render them without excuse rather than to lead them to salvation.

The Holy Spirit convicts Gods elect of sin and that causes us to repent and it leads to our salvation, while "convicting the world concerning sin" does not produce repentance or salvation, but it results in condemnation instead.

You make no distinction between Gods elect (the children of God) and the world (children of the Devil). You should know better, the "world" in the above context refers to the Devils children, as verse 11 confirms "the ruler of this world is judged" So the ruler and His children are judged but Gods elect are saved.

You mean the verses below?

Jesus indicated GRFS in various ways, some stated in terms of faith (F) and some in terms of works (W).

From Matthew:

Repent (4:17, F),
Recognize one’s spiritual poverty (5:3, F)
Be righteous (5:20, W)
Love your enemies (5:44, W)
Serve God (6:24&33, W)
Enter the narrow gate (7:13, F)
Do God’s will (7:21 & 12:50, F&W)
Hear and act (7:24, F&W)
Confess Jesus (10:32, W)
Love Jesus (10:37, F)
Give life to Jesus (10:39& 16:24-25, F)
Have no doubt (11:6, F)
Come to Jesus (11:28, F)
Learn from Jesus (11:29, W)
Be for Jesus (12:30, F)
Understand (13:23, F)
Be good (5:48 & 13:38,43,49, W)
Value salvation (13:44-46, F)
Believe Jesus (16:16& 21:32, F)
Become humble (18:3-4 & 19:14, W)
Forgive others (18:35, W)
Give to the poor (19:21, W)
Follow Jesus (19:21&29, F)
Yield fruit (21:43, W)
Dress appropriately (22:11-14, cf. RV 16:15, W)
Love God, neighbor & self (22:37-40, W)
Hold out until the end (24:13, F)
Keep awake (24:42 & 25:13, F)
Be ready (24:44, F&W)
Be trustworthy and useful (25:21&30, F&W)
Help Jesus’ brothers (25:34-40, W)
Be righteous/do right (25:46, F&W)

More from Mark:

Accept the kingdom (10:15, F) 34.
Believe the Gospel (16:16, F) 35.
Receive baptism (16:16, W)

More from Luke:

Be hated (6:22-23, W)
Lend (6:35, W)
Judge not (6:37, W)
Invite the poor to your party (14:13-14, W)
Use wealth wisely (16:9, W)
Stand firm (21:19, F)

From John:

Be born again (3:3&6, F)
Come to the light (3:21, F)
Obey the Son (8:51 & 14:15, W)
Drink living water (4:14, F)
Heed Jesus (5:24, W)
Do right (5:29, W)
Work for the food of life (6:27, W)
Partake of the bread of life (6:33-35&51, F)
Eat the flesh and drink the blood of X (6:54, F)
Dwell within the truth (8:31&35, W)
Hate self; serve Jesus (12:25-26, W)
Accept Jesus’ words (12:47, F)
Follow Jesus’ example (13:15-17, W)
Dwell in Jesus and in love (15:5-10, F&W)
Heed his command (15:10-12, F)
Know God and Jesus Christ (17:3, F)
Believe Jesus is Christ/Son (20:31, F)

Here are some other statements regarding GRFS from Acts, Romans and Corinthians.
From Acts:

Call on the name of the Lord (2:21, F)
Repent and be baptized (2:38, cf.3:19, F&W)
Believe in Jesus (10:43, cf. 13:39&48, F)
Believe in the Lord Jesus (16:31, cf. 18:8, F)
Repent and turn to God (26:20, F)

From Romans

Have faith (1:17, F)
Persist in doing good (2:7&10, cf.3:12, W)
Obey the law (2:13, cf. 3:20, W)
Have faith in Jesus Christ (3:22, 26&28&5:1, F)
Confess Jesus as resurrected Lord (10:9, F&W)
Call on the name of the Lord (10:13, F)

From 1 & 2 Corinthians Believe (1Cor. 1:21, F)
Hold firmly to the gospel (1Cor. 15:2, F)
Repent (2Cor. 7:10, F)

 

[GWH]

At this point, why would I do that? You have been given numerous verses of Scripture by myself and others - yet you reject all of them. Additionally, you seem blind to the principles taught throughout the Bible from Gen. 1:1 to Rev. 22:21.

You don't really care about TULIP. Your responses, show clearly, you hate the idea that God exercised His Sovereignty in election. I and others have attempted to explain why this was necessary. Surely you don't deny that God exercises His sovereignty throughout the Bible? Then why is it so hard to understand He does this in salvation also.

Look at the Biblical facts for a moment.

In the KJV:

Chosen -- is found in 107 verses of the Bible. The majority are in the OT but 12 are in the NT, related to God choosing. Examples:

Deu_7:6 For thou art a holy people unto Jehovah thy God: Jehovah thy God hath chosen thee to be a people for his own possession, above all peoples that are upon the face of the earth.
Rev_17:14 These shall war against the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings; and they also shall overcome that are with him, called and chosen and faithful.
Chose -- is used in 7 verses of the NT. Examples:

Mar_13:20 And except the Lord had shortened the days, no flesh would have been saved; but for the elect's sake, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
2Th_2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Elect -- is used in 19 verses of the NT. Examples:

Mat_24:31 And he shall send forth his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Rom_8:33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifies;
Election -- is used in 6 verses of the NT. Examples:

Rom_9:11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calls,
1Th_1:4 knowing, brethren beloved of God, your election,

Do you think, that by resting on your interpretation of John 3:16, you can nullify the facts of God's Word? He is SOVEREIGN in all things and over all things.

Thanks for citing Scripture. Do they support TULIP?

Nope, they merely say God chooses or elects people without specifying who and why,
but in context Christians know it is because they choose to repent, seek and find Jesus as Messiah/Lord.

Too easy!

The issue is not God's sovereignty but rather His omnilove (John 3:16, 1John 4:7-12, Rom. 5:8, Matt. 5:44&48, Gal. 5:6&14, Eph. 3:17b-19, Eph. 5:2 and 1Tim. 2:3-4) and justness (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3).

Deny THESE Scriptures if you dare to blaspheme!

 

[brightfame52]

The Bible said it, not me...
Faith isn't works. The Bible separates the two things in Ephesians 2:8 for example...

Scripture doesnt support your work salvation error.

 

[HeIsHere]

What you say is really not worth remembering.
We just move on and think to ourselves... "There goes Cameron again".

It just the word games, trying to sound like they agree but really do not.

We know darn well and it has been made it very clear Calvinist maintain the non-scriptural position that people are regenerated so they can believe.

 

[HeIsHere]

Same ole, same ole. You have no regard For His grace.

HUMAN GOOD/EVIL/DOING IT OUR OWN"good" WAY is not paid for. ALL sin is paid for. Grace upon Grace.

I have yet to see you share HIS Gospel on this forum. I have yet to see any reformed person share HIS Gospel on this forum.

We have no idea what Grace is if we think he did not die for ALL........This is why unbelievers will not just POOF and vanish forever. They are resurrected and suited to eternally survive the LoF......Christ died for them.

And He will give all the equal opportunity and equal privilege to His free gift. He is not willing that any perish....

He has a false supposition in his argument, the atoning has been accomplished for all as a gift, that does not mean God is unjust to

send people to hell ... people go to hell for suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, refusing to seek and find His good faith offer.

If I have a gift ready and waiting and the person does not accept the gift when offered, but suppresses that truth in unrighteousness

that does not make me unjust for their choice... it actually is true justice.

Calvinism is so very mangled.