What should we do to prepare for the rapture?

[Drich]

Where does Revelation 7 say this? I think you have mashed a whole lot of what the Bible says about the church, the rapture and the tribulation into one confused mess.

read the rest of my post. It explains in detail where chapter 7 says this.

 

[Drich]

Being given white robes means you are a priest, it doesn't mean you are martyred

where does revelation 6 or 7 say that?

Because Rev 6:8-11 says these souls under the alter where martyrs and where given white robes. Then in rev7 the uncountable crowd standing/worshiping God who also wore white robes:

Rev 7: After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Then in verses 13 & 14 they are identified as martyrs who came out of the great tribulation:

13Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[ZNP]

where does revelation 6 or 7 say that?

Because Rev 6:8-11 says these souls under the alter where martyrs and where given white robes. Then in rev7 the uncountable crowd standing/worshiping God who also wore white robes:

Rev 7: After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Then in verses 13 & 14 they are identified as martyrs who came out of the great tribulation:

13Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Yes, but not all of the raptured come out of the tribulation. There are two different scenes on the glassy sea, one is calm and one is mingled with fire.

 

[Delvianna]

Some points for you @ZNP and @Drich.

You cannot merge past and future together. This is a vision. Which means everything taking place is at the time, the present. So you cannot include past martyrs in people under the alter. These would be people who died during the time of the trib, since seals have already been opened.

Also, what symbolically does being under an alter mean? An alter is an offering, so being under it infers that they were part of some sort of offering to God but are also hidden/protected by something greater. So the visual image backs up what they literally are (martyrs for God). They sacrificed their lives for God who protects them. Just shows how symbolic Revelation really is...

So be careful in applying Revelation.

 

[Drich]

Yes, but not all of the raptured come out of the tribulation. There are two different scenes on the glassy sea, one is calm and one is mingled with fire.

I never said these martyrs where raptured. In fact the opposite.

I'm saying the church which is mainly comprised of gentile believers will be slaughtered by the anti christ for not taking the mark of the beast. Rev 13 says we will have our heads removed for not bowing down to the beast/taking his mark.. This causes a vacuum where the church stood. This is also why the 144K Jews are introduced and recognized. They become the church. They are sealed and protected by God from any harm coming from the anti - Christ.

Once all of the current church who refuses to bow to the beast are murdered, (Excluding the 144K jews) the 144K Jews will carry the mantel of the church for some time (Rev 14) Where God will then recall or rapture those jewish believers, to save them from His coming wrath/vengeance for those under the alter cried out for.

God will have His angels begin to blow His trumpets and start pouring out His wrath. (Avenging the martyrs. Those of Rev 6 and Rev 7.) God will punish the remaining inhabitance of the world for murdering the gentile church.

So again... No one alive in the church today need worry about being ready for the rapture. We need to be ready for what happens when the world turns on all of us and starts cutting off heads and no one is being raptured. My fear is so many of us has bought into this idea of a rapture that is to save us from any discomfort right up front.. That our Faith will fail when we are hunted down rounded up, put into camps and executed.

 

[ZNP]

I never said these martyrs where raptured. In fact the opposite.

I'm saying the church which is mainly comprised of gentile believers will be slaughtered by the anti christ for not taking the mark of the beast. Rev 13 says we will have our heads removed for not bowing down to the beast/taking his mark.. This causes a vacuum where the church stood. This is also why the 144K Jews are introduced and recognized. They become the church. They are sealed and protected by God from any harm coming from the anti - Christ.

Once all of the current church who refuses to bow to the beast are murdered, (Excluding the 144K jews) the 144K Jews will carry the mantel of the church for some time (Rev 14) Where God will then recall or rapture those jewish believers, to save them from His coming wrath/vengeance for those under the alter cried out for.

God will have His angels begin to blow His trumpets and start pouring out His wrath. (Avenging the martyrs. Those of Rev 6 and Rev 7.) God will punish the remaining inhabitance of the world for murdering the gentile church.

So again... No one alive in the church today need worry about being ready for the rapture. We need to be ready for what happens when the world turns on all of us and starts cutting off heads and no one is being raptured. My fear is so many of us has bought into this idea of a rapture that is to save us from any discomfort right up front.. That our Faith will fail when we are hunted down rounded up, put into camps and executed.

The 144,000 are half of the 288,000 which represent a complete priestly order. they are virgins, just like the ten virgins and the first half that were wise are the ones who have oil, and are holding torches in the tribulation to lead the way to the wedding feast. As believers we are the "Israel of God". It is ridiculous to assume that the Lord, who said there was no Jew or Greek, is now at the end of the age creating a priesthood based on the flesh. The reality of the 144,000 being of these 12 tribes is spiritual, not fleshly.

 

[NightTwister]

Make sure you wear clean underwear, because that could be embarrassing.

 

[Delvianna]

@Drich @ZNP Why do you guys constantly separate yourselves? Do you not understand the concept of being grafted in? The 144k, are not just literal biological Jews. When gentiles moved to Israel, they all joined a tribe and God told the Israelites to treat them as natural born. Which means, stop looking at the 144,000 like a grafted in Christian isn't apart of that.

 

[ZNP]

@Drich @ZNP Why do you guys constantly separate yourselves? Do you not understand the concept of being grafted in? The 144k, are not just literal biological Jews. When gentiles moved to Israel, they all joined a tribe and God told the Israelites to treat them as natural born. Which means, stop looking at the 144,000 like a grafted in Christian isn't apart of that.

Why, because no bible verse is of a private interpretation. Everything in the Bible must align with everything else in the Bible. Claiming that some elite group of Jews shows up at the end of the age to help people to salvation is contrary to the fellowship of the apostles.

 

[Delvianna]

Why, because no bible verse is of a private interpretation. Everything in the Bible must align with everything else in the Bible. Claiming that some elite group of Jews shows up at the end of the age to help people to salvation is contrary to the fellowship of the apostles.

I don't think you understand what I said. What gave you the impression I was talking about some section of "elite Jews"? I literally argued the opposite.

 

[ZNP]

I don't think you understand what I said. What gave you the impression I was talking about some section of "elite Jews"? I literally argued the opposite.

I guess because you assumed I was arguing for a group of elite Jews and I have never held that position.

Luke 10 describes Jesus sending out 72, two by two. This grew from the original 12 who were sent out two by two. If it were not for the debate over whether this was 72 or 70 I think it would be the majority interpretation that 144,000 is simply 72,000 groups of 2 being sent out as a consummate fulfillment of what we saw in the gospels.

I reject the majority scholarly position (Heiser, Aune, Bauckham, Beale, Walvoord, MacArthur, etc.) that the 144,000 are ethnic Jews or Jewish Christians distinct from Gentile believers. I argue they're identified by faith in Christ, not physical descent — grounding this in:

• Romans 9:6–8 — "not all Israel, which are of Israel"; the promise, not the flesh, was always the qualifying category
• Ephesians 2:14–15, 3:6 — the "one new man," the wall between Jew and Gentile broken down
• Galatians 3:28 — no distinction between Jew and Greek "in Christ"
• Revelation 21:12, 14, 24–26 — the twelve tribal gates of New Jerusalem are explicitly open to redeemed nations, offered as the interpretive key for how to read tribal names in Revelation 7

Who they specifically are: the raptured, glorified overcomers of the church age

I also claim the 144,000 aren't mortal tribulation survivors but already-resurrected believers deployed back to earth:

• Revelation 7:3 — sealed before the judgments begin, marking a completed status rather than ongoing protection
• Revelation 14:1, 4 — seen already with the Lamb on Mount Sion, called "firstfruits," implying a finished harvest
• 1 Corinthians 15:42–44, Philippians 3:21 — resurrection bodies, physical yet unbound (paralleled with Luke 24:39–43, John 20:19, 26)
• John 14:18 — sent back so Christ doesn't leave the tribulation's new believers "as orphans"
• Revelation 19:11, 14–16 — identified as the same company, now unveiled as the army riding with Christ, wearing the same "fine linen" as the bride (Revelation 19:7–8)

Structural/typological support

• Genesis 14:14 — Abram's 318 trained chanik ("dedicated ones"), a pre-Israelite army gathered by faith, not bloodline, is offered as the archetype
• Luke 10:1 (the sending of the 72) — the document argues 72 × 1,000 pairs = 144,000, explaining the number's precision without an ethnic referent
• Job — used as the template for a "hedge"/sealing that signifies proof of love and completed testing (Job 1:10, 42:10)
• Tribal-list anomalies (Judah first, Joseph/Manasseh instead of Ephraim/Manasseh, Levi's inclusion, Dan's omission) are each given typological explanations — notably that Dan (name meaning "he judged") is excluded because the priesthood's office is intercession rather than judgment (tied to Matthew 7:1–2, Job 42:7–9), with Levi included and reinterpreted via 2 Chronicles 20:21–23 and Revelation 19:15, 21 (a sword proceeding from the mouth, not the hand).

 

[Delvianna]

I guess because you assumed I was arguing for a group of elite Jews and I have never held that position.

Luke 10 describes Jesus sending out 72, two by two. This grew from the original 12 who were sent out two by two. If it were not for the debate over whether this was 72 or 70 I think it would be the majority interpretation that 144,000 is simply 72,000 groups of 2 being sent out as a consummate fulfillment of what we saw in the gospels.

I reject the majority scholarly position (Heiser, Aune, Bauckham, Beale, Walvoord, MacArthur, etc.) that the 144,000 are ethnic Jews or Jewish Christians distinct from Gentile believers. I argue they're identified by faith in Christ, not physical descent — grounding this in:

• Romans 9:6–8 — "not all Israel, which are of Israel"; the promise, not the flesh, was always the qualifying category
• Ephesians 2:14–15, 3:6 — the "one new man," the wall between Jew and Gentile broken down
• Galatians 3:28 — no distinction between Jew and Greek "in Christ"
• Revelation 21:12, 14, 24–26 — the twelve tribal gates of New Jerusalem are explicitly open to redeemed nations, offered as the interpretive key for how to read tribal names in Revelation 7

Who they specifically are: the raptured, glorified overcomers of the church age

I also claim the 144,000 aren't mortal tribulation survivors but already-resurrected believers deployed back to earth:

• Revelation 7:3 — sealed before the judgments begin, marking a completed status rather than ongoing protection
• Revelation 14:1, 4 — seen already with the Lamb on Mount Sion, called "firstfruits," implying a finished harvest
• 1 Corinthians 15:42–44, Philippians 3:21 — resurrection bodies, physical yet unbound (paralleled with Luke 24:39–43, John 20:19, 26)
• John 14:18 — sent back so Christ doesn't leave the tribulation's new believers "as orphans"
• Revelation 19:11, 14–16 — identified as the same company, now unveiled as the army riding with Christ, wearing the same "fine linen" as the bride (Revelation 19:7–8)

Structural/typological support

• Genesis 14:14 — Abram's 318 trained chanik ("dedicated ones"), a pre-Israelite army gathered by faith, not bloodline, is offered as the archetype
• Luke 10:1 (the sending of the 72) — the document argues 72 × 1,000 pairs = 144,000, explaining the number's precision without an ethnic referent
• Job — used as the template for a "hedge"/sealing that signifies proof of love and completed testing (Job 1:10, 42:10)
• Tribal-list anomalies (Judah first, Joseph/Manasseh instead of Ephraim/Manasseh, Levi's inclusion, Dan's omission) are each given typological explanations — notably that Dan (name meaning "he judged") is excluded because the priesthood's office is intercession rather than judgment (tied to Matthew 7:1–2, Job 42:7–9), with Levi included and reinterpreted via 2 Chronicles 20:21–23 and Revelation 19:15, 21 (a sword proceeding from the mouth, not the hand).

My apologies, I misunderstood you then as Drich said "144K Jews", I took you were arguing of who they were but still held to the same belief of biology.

I do disagree with the idea that they are already resurrected believers.
I agree that the mark = protection.
I disagree on the finished harvest. You can offer first fruits before the harvest is done. It's literally the first "fruit" of the harvest. So that doesn't mean the harvest is finished.
And I'm not sure how you understand that they're the same group of people as the army. Just because they're wearing white?

 

[ZNP]

My apologies, I misunderstood you then as Drich said "144K Jews", I took you were arguing of who they were but still held to the same belief of biology.

I do disagree with the idea that they are already resurrected believers.
I agree that the mark = protection.
I disagree on the finished harvest. You can offer first fruits before the harvest is done. It's literally the first "fruit" of the harvest. So that doesn't mean the harvest is finished.
And I'm not sure how you understand that they're the same group of people as the army. Just because they're wearing white?

I think the key point is Jesus promise to not leave the tribulation saints orphans, and the similarity between sending out 72 and the 144,000 being 72,000 groups of two, and the parable of the ten virgins who have lamps lit to light the way for the marriage procession.

 

[Delvianna]

I think the key point is Jesus promise to not leave the tribulation saints orphans, and the similarity between sending out 72 and the 144,000 being 72,000 groups of two, and the parable of the ten virgins who have lamps lit to light the way for the marriage procession.

Okay, so I don't believe these are resurrected people. There isn't a single account in history of God bringing people back to accomplish anything major. It's also why I disagree with the premise that the 2 witnesses are any biblical character. God always raises up people to accomplish His will.

So I do agree that these people will be protected and help light the way during the entire tribulation period up to the second coming of Christ. They are the "first fruit" of the harvest because in Revelation 14, you see Christ reap during the tribulation period. So these first fruits are the beginning of that, but I don't think Revelation is in order, its kind of compounded in concepts. Thats why when you get down to verse 20, it talks about the winepress which I believe is the end of the trib which starts the "great" part of the trib. So my understanding is:

144,000= First fruits at the start of the trib are sealed.
The harvest comes in at the middle = Christ reaping the harvest
Great trib starts which the 144,000 are protected through as the remnant that goes into the millennial reign that then repopulates the earth.

 

[Drich]

The 144,000 are half of the 288,000 which represent a complete priestly order. they are virgins, just like the ten virgins and the first half that were wise are the ones who have oil, and are holding torches in the tribulation to lead the way to the wedding feast. As believers we are the "Israel of God". It is ridiculous to assume that the Lord, who said there was no Jew or Greek, is now at the end of the age creating a priesthood based on the flesh. The reality of the 144,000 being of these 12 tribes is spiritual, not fleshly.

-Or-

Now hear me out..

We can simply go by what is actually written on page of rev 6 or 7 and only count the 144K Jews as 132 regular non priest jews. Because Priests where only to come from the tribe of Levi. So Out of those 144 jews only 12K come from the priestly tribe of Levi. So 144,000 minus 12,000 from the tribe of levi is 132,000. Meaning there are only 12,000 potential priests (If all from the tribe of levi want to be priests/qualify This is assuming not all 12k will meet the requirements/women etc.)

So no. there aren't going to be 288,000 priests as only 12,000 would potentially qualify.

 

[Bible_Locket]

And knowing my luck it will be left behind by very old hippies and Ill be stuck with them

During a rehash of the Woodstock concert.

 

[Bible_Locket]

Rapture can happen in the night while we're sleeping.
I know Christians who will not sleep nude even during hot summer nights. And for that very reason.

Me , I figure if it happens while I'm asleep,I'm not going to worry about modesty.
Besides, I'm in great shape. If nothing else I can show I kept the Temple in excellent shape!

Because round is a shape.

 

[ZNP]

Okay, so I don't believe these are resurrected people. There isn't a single account in history of God bringing people back to accomplish anything major. It's also why I disagree with the premise that the 2 witnesses are any biblical character. God always raises up people to accomplish His will.

So I do agree that these people will be protected and help light the way during the entire tribulation period up to the second coming of Christ. They are the "first fruit" of the harvest because in Revelation 14, you see Christ reap during the tribulation period. So these first fruits are the beginning of that, but I don't think Revelation is in order, its kind of compounded in concepts. Thats why when you get down to verse 20, it talks about the winepress which I believe is the end of the trib which starts the "great" part of the trib. So my understanding is:

144,000= First fruits at the start of the trib are sealed.
The harvest comes in at the middle = Christ reaping the harvest
Great trib starts which the 144,000 are protected through as the remnant that goes into the millennial reign that then repopulates the earth.

Is that true? Jesus appeared to the disciples from the resurrection to the ascension to help those who had been left behind.

 

[ZNP]

-Or-

Now hear me out..

We can simply go by what is actually written on page of rev 6 or 7 and only count the 144K Jews as 132 regular non priest jews. Because Priests where only to come from the tribe of Levi. So Out of those 144 jews only 12K come from the priestly tribe of Levi. So 144,000 minus 12,000 from the tribe of levi is 132,000. Meaning there are only 12,000 potential priests (If all from the tribe of levi want to be priests/qualify This is assuming not all 12k will meet the requirements/women etc.)

So no. there aren't going to be 288,000 priests as only 12,000 would potentially qualify.

I have heard you out, that is the standard interpretation and it violates about ten new testament verses.

 

[Bible_Locket]

Is that true? Jesus appeared to the disciples from the resurrection to the ascension to help those who had been left behind.

And for 40 days.