What should we do to prepare for the rapture?
- Thread starter ZNP
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That is your opinion, I'll stick with the Bible's opinion, thank you.
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Enoch in the book of Genesis was a type of the raptured saints.
1Kings 17.
Elijah implored God to resurrect the son of the widow. I think this was major because that resurrection showed the widow Elijah was of God, and she then believed.
Matthew 27, during the crucifixion of Jesus the Saint's of Jerusalem were raised from the dead.
Of course in John 11, the resurrection of Lazarus showed all who were present Jesus was the Son of God.
There are more resurrection in both Old and New testaments.
I think they're all to qualify as major events being they were dead, and then were brought back to life.
I wonder,when prophets of God in the OT or when Jesus gave the dead life again, were they still dead in their sins? When God brought them back to life?
Did the son become a prophet? Did he become a King? A Judge? Anyone? We know nothing about the son other than he was resurrected. Thats what I mean by "great". The idea of someone being resurrected to then be protected as a group of 144,000 that are meant to shine the light of the world would be considered "great". Or resurrecting Elisha who turns out to be 1 of the 2 witnesses, that would be "great". Not that the event itself isn't great.
As far as answering your question, I don't think a mere resurrection automatically makes that person into a perfect body. In the case for Lazarus, that would have to mean he's still alive today because perfection would live forever. But I think we can agree that's not the case. So if he came back to life and then died again at some point, that would mean they are still dead in their sins since death by itself is a curse due to sin.
What in the world does this have to do with the topic that the 144,000 = resurrected/perfect body people? Now you're on about raptured saints?
Also, just because you have an interpretation opinion doesn't make it correct. So rubber stamping your own opinion as the bibles, doesn't make you accurate.
You said there was no Biblical basis to say that the Lord would come with tens of thousands of raptured saints. Enoch was the first "raptured" saint and he tells us that the Lord will come with tens of thousands of His saints from heaven as a conquering force.
Jesus appearing to the believers after the resurrection to help them is proof that raptured saints can appear as the 144,000 and this prophecy concerning the lord coming with tens of thousands of His saints is clearly a proof that this is what happens during the day of the Lord.
When Scripture breaks down the 144K it does so through jewish blood lines. (12,000 individual jews from each of the 12 tribes.) So, yes the scripture literally means biological jews.
You kinda miss the whole point of what I've been saying in that; The Gentile church will be slaughtered by the anti christ.
The 144K will take the place of the current church and will be the remnant/the new church till God begins to pour our his wrath.
This discussion is about the rapture, not the 144. The 144 just so happen to represent a water shed event in chapter 7 the precedes the destruction and murder of the gentile church.
That is a popular theory, but to confirm it you would need ten other verses in the New Testament suggesting a biological Jewish evangelistic team, which the Bible refers to as those who are Jews according to the flesh. By all means, if you want to push this theory then provide the verse references. I have already provided significant verses disputing this theory as being contrary to the rest of the New Testament.
I reject the majority scholarly position (Heiser, Aune, Bauckham, Beale, Walvoord, MacArthur, etc.) that the 144,000 are ethnic Jews or Jewish Christians distinct from Gentile believers. I argue they're identified by faith in Christ, not physical descent — grounding this in:
- Romans 9:6–8 — "not all Israel, which are of Israel"; the promise, not the flesh, was always the qualifying category
- Ephesians 2:14–15, 3:6 — the "one new man," the wall between Jew and Gentile broken down
- Galatians 3:28 — no distinction between Jew and Greek "in Christ"
- Revelation 21:12, 14, 24–26 — the twelve tribal gates of New Jerusalem are explicitly open to redeemed nations, offered as the interpretive key for how to read tribal names in Revelation 7
I also claim the 144,000 aren't mortal tribulation survivors but already-resurrected believers deployed back to earth:
- Revelation 7:3 — sealed before the judgments begin, marking a completed status rather than ongoing protection
- Revelation 14:1, 4 — seen already with the Lamb on Mount Sion, called "firstfruits," implying a finished harvest
- 1 Corinthians 15:42–44, Philippians 3:21 — resurrection bodies, physical yet unbound (paralleled with Luke 24:39–43, John 20:19, 26)
- John 14:18 — sent back so Christ doesn't leave the tribulation's new believers "as orphans"
- Revelation 19:11, 14–16 — identified as the same company, now unveiled as the army riding with Christ, wearing the same "fine linen" as the bride (Revelation 19:7–8)
- Genesis 14:14 — Abram's 318 trained chanik ("dedicated ones"), a pre-Israelite army gathered by faith, not bloodline, is offered as the archetype
- Luke 10:1 (the sending of the 72) — the document argues 72 × 1,000 pairs = 144,000, explaining the number's precision without an ethnic referent
- Job — used as the template for a "hedge"/sealing that signifies proof of love and completed testing (Job 1:10, 42:10)
- Tribal-list anomalies (Judah first, Joseph/Manasseh instead of Ephraim/Manasseh, Levi's inclusion, Dan's omission) are each given typological explanations — notably that Dan (name meaning "he judged") is excluded because the priesthood's office is intercession rather than judgment (tied to Matthew 7:1–2, Job 42:7–9), with Levi included and reinterpreted via 2 Chronicles 20:21–23 and Revelation 19:15, 21 (a sword proceeding from the mouth, not the hand).
5. Excluded from the Wrong Table
Adonijah's coup follows a familiar shape: the rightful heir has not yet been crowned, and a plausible, attractive usurper "exalted himself" and threw a coronation feast of his own (1 Kings 1:5-6). It is described in exactly the language of a legitimate celebration — a banquet, guests, a public claim to authority — everything except the one thing that would have made it real: the true king's blessing.One detail in this account deserves far more attention than it usually gets. Adonijah's guest list conspicuously excludes David's loyal servants (1 Kings 1:10). Nathan the prophet is left off. Zadok the priest is left off. Benaiah, Solomon, and David's own mighty men are left off. Every name still faithful to the true king finds itself, quite deliberately, uninvited from the celebration everyone else seems to be attending.
If you have ever felt sidelined by a system, a group, or an institution that has drifted toward celebrating something you cannot in good conscience join — passed over, excluded, left off the list precisely because you would not go along with the direction things were heading — this is your text. Being excluded from the wrong table is not evidence that you have failed. In this account, it is the direct evidence of the opposite: it is proof of exactly whose side you were actually on.
And notice how quickly the apparent disadvantage reverses. While Adonijah's guests are still mid-feast, "the sound of rejoicing reaches Adonijah's feast" — Solomon has already been anointed, sent out on David's own mule, publicly declared. The celebration that excluded the faithful is interrupted, mid-toast, by the arrival of the true king's authority. Those who were left off the guest list did not need an invitation to the wrong banquet. They needed only to still be standing with the right king when he was revealed.
This is the same encouragement Philadelphia receives in Revelation 3 — a "little strength," an open door no one can shut, honor despite apparent marginalization by those who claim authority in God's house. Exclusion from a compromised celebration is not always a sign that you are losing. Read rightly, in the light of Adonijah's feast, it is very often the sign that you have not joined the wrong wedding — and that the true King's arrival, however long delayed, is going to make that distinction unmistakable to everyone at the table.
I was replying to ZNP's belief about who the 144,000 are which was the topic we were on at the time.
While I partially agree that the church will be slaughtered and the 144,000 are the remnant, these are not just biological Jews. When you are grafted in, you are also grafted into a tribe, just like in the time of Moses where God told them to treat them AS natural born. So every saved gentile, has a tribe.
Yes, well the Bible says the Lord comes with thousands of His saints. That has not been fulfilled, and so this is a prophecy of the Lord's coming during the seventieth week which is known as the Day of the Lord.
Personally I don't care what you said, I would be interested to know what the Bible says, not what your opinion is.
Because a lot of people do share insights on what the Bible says. It is also helpful for me to discover that many of these doctrines Christians hold as "truth" are indefensible by them. They repeat them because their pastor taught them this, but there is no scriptural basis for it. I have also discovered how poorly trained many Christians are, not even realizing that no bible interpretation can be based on a single verse. Also, iron sharpens iron, the fact that I get challenged, questioned and "debunked" repeatedly helps me to stay sharp.
Not as a basis for my understanding of the Bible, not for determining whether or not an interpretation has merit. I thought the context of that statement was obvious, but apparently not.So then you DO care what people say....
There are no rules in a vision.
Which as I pointed out is possible. but so too is it possible this could be all of the martyred saints ever. Because why would the saints martyred outside of the tribulation want God's justice any less than those martyred in the tribulation?
I'm saying either or both scenarios are possible because again there are no set rules to what one can see in a vision. Infact, Moses is said to have written the book of genesis. It is also said that God showed moses in a vision/Devine revelation.
It means these saints where murdered, and their blood is part of what is required for the 5th seal on the title deed to earth to be broken. Meaning thier blood was counted as a sacrifice, and they where being held till all who would be sacrificed, where..