Charity / welfare

[zone]

your "charity" money rarely gets where its supposed to go because its syphoned off by the banking cartels and haters of mankind. try helping ONE person face to face.

as for the 'welfare state': its a plank in the communist manifesto (complete) intended to make man dependent on the state (vis the woman), then gradually take everything away form EVERYBODY. its nothing new.


the scare-mongering called "over-population" is as bogus as global warming. the whole point is to get those who 'have' to fear and loathe those who 'have-not'....and consent to getting rid of the useless eaters. just like every other DIALECTIC, the "haves" thought they'd be spared....but they never are.

~

Stalin's Starvation of Ukraine – Seventy Years Later,
World Still Largely Unaware Of Tragedy

A famine deliberately engineered by the regime of Josef Stalin 70 years ago claimed millions of lives, mostly in Ukraine but also in some other parts of the Soviet Union. It is today considered one of the worst atrocities of the Soviet regime and a terrifying act of genocide. Even so, the famine of 1933 is relatively unknown. RFE/RL correspondent Askold Krushelnycky examines the reasons behind this and reports on a campaign to draw attention to the atrocity.
http://ukemonde.com/news/rferl.html

~

There is a philosophy amongst world string pullers that the average man will find just too horrible to comprehend, yet it exists and it shapes our modern world. There is no official version of this philosophy and I don't think it is taught anywhere at universities. Students seem to arrive at it through a natural path. Hegelianism it is not, neither is it pure Utilitarianism. The Nazi’s called it “Life unworthy of life”. Let me simply call it "The Philosophy of the Useless Eaters".

It is difficult to determine where this philosophy came from. Thomas Malthus wrote in 1798 that there will always be more people in the world than can be fed, hence the need for wars and diseases. We know that people like the British imperialist Cecil John Rhodes, birth control founder Margaret Sanger, Stalin and Adolf Hitler were practitioners of this philosophy, but the man who stands out as the biggest practitioner has to be "Red Terror" Felix Dzerzhinsky. Most Westerners have never heard of him, but he is a Communist god and they have erected a huge statue in his honour (torn down, but soon to be re-erected) in Moscow.....

Felix D. regarded mankind as being slightly above the level of cattle. He once told British agent Sydney Reilly, while the two were on a drinking binge that, "Man is of no importance. Look at what happens when you starve him. He begins to eat his dead companions to stay alive. Man is only interested in his own survival. That is all that counts. All the Spinoza stuff is a lot of rubbish."

This philosophy is a mixture of Freud, Plato, Aristotle, Darwin, Marx and many others. The way it was explained to me was basically like this:

Man has no natural enemies so he breeds uncontrollably. The artificially created, industrialized world has developed to the stage where it can support the meek of society; cripples, chronically sick, blind and deaf people, etc. Further these people are allowed to breed more cripples, chronically sick, blind and deaf "Useless Eaters" who would have died out in a natural environment and because of this situation, the human race is systematically weakened through enlarging numbers of useless eaters across the world. It has therefore become necessary to control the numbers of the so called "useless eaters" in order for the human race to remain strong and survive. It is important to note that one finds "Useless Eaters" amongst all nations. Race and nationality is of little importance here.
http://mspoliticalcommentary.blogspot.com/2010/03/philosophy-of-useless-eaters.html

Thomas Malthus: << find out about this devil. and how many believe and think like him.

 

[zone]

though this parable is commonly thought to be describing hell/paradise/afterlife it is not.
its one in a string of parables spoken concerning national israel's spiritual condition. its a warning.

the rich man represents the leisure class of national israel who came to feel entitled and despised others. lazarus represents the gentiles.

Luke 16
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side.f The rich man also died and was buried, 23and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 27And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house— 28for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

 

[rainacorn]

Yikes. You're brave for even posing this question lol

I think I get where you're coming from and I don't believe it to be from a position of cruelty.

There are a lot of problems in this world. We like to put band aids on things because it makes us feel good, even if it just perpetuates problems. We send food to the foodless. Some water to those without. Medicine... we're forever sending medicine.

Is that not also playing God?

All of the medicating and treating we do in "civilized nations" is meant to stave off death and keep people alive for as long as HUMANLY possible. The life expectancy gets longer and longer. People who have had multiple major heart attacks and complete organ replacements are alive and well and medicated beyond belief. "Nature" has tried to kill them multiple times. Man said no.

Now, I suppose you could say that God gave us the ability to heal each other using medicine and surgery and technology and all of these other things. God wants our quality of life to be good and God wants us to live for as long as possible. God loves science.

You could say that.

Is it true?

Our physical life is meant to be temporary. We're supposed to hate it. Why do we have such a hard time letting go?

Now what was proposed in the OP is little more than NOT playing God anymore. NOT healing people when they become sick. NOT going out of our way to improve their quality of life, physically. As some have mentioned, their spiritual life is more important anyway. Their souls matter more than their stomachs.

It's a lot to think about. I don't think you're a horrible person for bringing this up.

Helping our neighbors in our own communities will do more than mailing off checks to other countries and hoping it gets where it needs to go. Why are we more willing to do the latter than the former?

 

[Sharp]

Yikes. You're brave for even posing this question lol

I think I get where you're coming from and I don't believe it to be from a position of cruelty.

There are a lot of problems in this world. We like to put band aids on things because it makes us feel good, even if it just perpetuates problems. We send food to the foodless. Some water to those without. Medicine... we're forever sending medicine.

Is that not also playing God?

All of the medicating and treating we do in "civilized nations" is meant to stave off death and keep people alive for as long as HUMANLY possible. The life expectancy gets longer and longer. People who have had multiple major heart attacks and complete organ replacements are alive and well and medicated beyond belief. "Nature" has tried to kill them multiple times. Man said no.

Now, I suppose you could say that God gave us the ability to heal each other using medicine and surgery and technology and all of these other things. God wants our quality of life to be good and God wants us to live for as long as possible. God loves science.

You could say that.

Is it true?

Our physical life is meant to be temporary. We're supposed to hate it. Why do we have such a hard time letting go?

Now what was proposed in the OP is little more than NOT playing God anymore. NOT healing people when they become sick. NOT going out of our way to improve their quality of life, physically. As some have mentioned, their spiritual life is more important anyway. Their souls matter more than their stomachs.

It's a lot to think about. I don't think you're a horrible person for bringing this up.

Helping our neighbors in our own communities will do more than mailing off checks to other countries and hoping it gets where it needs to go. Why are we more willing to do the latter than the former?

Thankyou for understanding!

I am not posting this stuff because I am mean, but because I think there is a better way to help people than the way its being done now.

And if my views are wrong, then you fine Christians will correct me.

I'll write some more things later, but to Zone, yes, I do believe in eugenics, which I believe to be a fantastic idea, which society wrongly shuns unconditionally.

 

[pickles]

Sharp, I understand the reasoning you are considering, but the flaw is that there is no perfect answer, or perfect solution, that is of the world.
For we are called to mercy, and compassion in Jesus.
In all the years I have sought Jesus, it is in faith He has revieled that it is through serving each other that true peace , perfection and love is given.
And we learn this by looking and learning from Jesus.

For in the blick of an eye, everything can change.
There was a time when my husband, I and our family survived by the compassion and mercy of others.
For shelter, food and medical care.
This all happened because of the wrongful act of another, but I believe also because my husband the year before we lost everything, boasted that we would never be like those that needed.( He has repented and saw the folly of his words)
It was a time of humility for us, but also a time of great blessings and growth in faith, hope and the love of Jesus.
After a while we recovered, to where we now are of the many who help support the programs that feed, shelter and provide medical care.
Our children , grown now all work in ways that help other and save lives, yes, their actions and work has saved lives.
My husband also works in a field that serves and saves lives.
If one was to have said let them die, for it would be better.
Many who now live and give so much themselves, would not be here.
Who are we to think that by not helping, we would improve things for the world.
For the very things we do our not of our selves but by the hand of God!
Think very carefully about what you have been considering.
For history gives a glossed over understanding of the events that were so devistating and terrible to live, and much that suffered, did not have to.
To go against God, who created all that is, who in His great mercy, sent His son Jesus to suffer for our sins, who gives us everything we have.
To disobey the very direction and will of God given in Jesus, saying, feed the hungry, cloth the poor.
The history of the world shows that reason , has no accomplishments, other than flesh, and weak flesh at that.
Only in Jesus, is there perfection, Love.
And Jesus gave us everything!

God bless
pickles

 

[rus_lady]

not sure where the christianity will go if we wont take part in the life of others . sometimes i think those that never tryed to understand other peorsons needs etc never had any problems in their life . cuz where there is no understanding theres dont think that love can dwell there

 

[AnandaHya]

, yes, I do believe in eugenics, which I believe to be a fantastic idea, which society wrongly shuns unconditionally.

unless of course your family is considered the unworthy one who should not reproduce or be feed?

Eugenics justifies genocide and the mass slaughter of a group of people.

If you don't know about eugenics I recommend you watch the movie Rabbit proof fences which is about the Austrilian Eugenics project.

who determines what is a desirable inheritable trait and what is not?

Again does GOD give life to babies or does He not?

would you take life from those GOD has given them to?

 

[AnandaHya]

what if people with the power decide you are just too Christian? its not a desirable trait to be followers of Jesus anymore, what would you do?

 

[zone]

I'll write some more things later, but to Zone, yes, I do believe in eugenics, which I believe to be a fantastic idea, which society wrongly shuns unconditionally.

let's start with your family.
the whole family, wherever they are.

DNA tests. if there are any genetic issues which lead to disease....GONE. bullet, needle, doesn't matter....disappeared.

and the eugenics doctrine says poverty is a genetic trait.

now we need to see your INCOME STATEMENTS PLEASE.

ALL YOUR PAPERS.

you won't mind the women in your family submitting to prenatal testing i presume.
mandatory abortion if there appears to be any problem. and sterilization for sure.....end of your family line.

you think eugenics is for "those people"?

IT IS FOR YOU.

 

[Consumed]

Hitler embraced eugenics

hmm thought this was a charity (love) - welfare thread

lol

 

[rus_lady]

Eugenics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Muirnin]

"We should give people food on the condition of their sterilization."???? So you get a lifelong sentence of not being able to have children because for a brief period in their lives they were out of work??? This does not sound biblical.

See, I agree with one point you are making as it is biblical.....giving with the intent of helping them to see the love of Christ through us and helping towards their belief in Christ either now or in the future. So yes, I do look carefully at the charity I give to so that I can make sure that they are actively working towards the salvation of those they serve.

However, I do not think Christ's example of communal living and his example of compassion towards the lost and needy is in line with letting people who do not have food die of starvation or sterilize them. In fact, I think it is in direct opposition to his teaching where he said: Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ Galatians 6:2; Acts 2:42 and following

"They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread, and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and good, they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved."; Hebrews 10:24 and 25 says, “let us consider how to stimulate one another and to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.”; Acts 2:42
All the believers devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching, and to fellowship, and to sharing in meals, and to prayer; 1 Peter 4:9
Cheerfully share your home with those who need a meal or a place to stay; Hebrews 13:2 Don't forget to show hospitality to strangers, for some who have done this have entertained angels without realizing it!; John 13:34-35 So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples." ;

 

[rainacorn]

Too many people think that being charitable means writing a check. If someone were to come by and interview everyone in your neighborhood and ask them if they think you are loving and charitable, what would they say? Would they have any clue who you are?

 

[distinctiveministry]

I've got some problems with charities. Please don't be offended here; some of the content may be harsh. I just want to discuss this with someone.

Historically, population has fluctuated with food supply. In times of plenty, we decided to breed because there was enough food to support offspring. Population increase then shrank food supply per person. Famine results and many people die. As a result, the food to person ration increases, and people breed again. The cycle continued on...

...Until we decided to intervene with charity.

Charity keeps people alive who theoretically should die. These people who are subsidised/supported then reproduce and create more people in the same dire situation as themselves. The need for charity then grows as more hungry mouths are produced. Our refusal to let natural population controls take effect means that we have been supporting people who can not support themselves for decades. This will go on indefinitely.

The world could solve the hunger/poverty crisis within a generation if we really wanted to, through a huge sterilisation program. This will never happen though.

The question I am asking is this. Are the world's poor put there by God as a test for us? To see what Christians will do with them? Jesus said to his disciples that the poor will always be with them... but technically there doesn't need to be any poor people.

I only give to charities from now on that specifically try to convert people to Christianity. I think that is the only useful form of charity. Feeding and clothing people only to then have them go to hell is a futile waste of money in my opinion. I'd rather have a starving person die as a starving Christian than have them live a long life as a healthy happy atheist and then suffer eternal torment.

I'm disillusioned with charities and I'm reluctant to give to them, because they waste money. I think the efforts of Christian charities should change, from keeping people alive, to making sure they get to heaven.

Any thoughts?

Perhaps someone else has already mentioned this, and if so I am sorry for repeating it:

There is actually enough food in the world to feed everyone. Unfortunately some countries keep a regular supply sufficient to sustain them for long periods of time even without new crops. The caloric consumption of the US alone (pop 300,000,000+) is enough to sustain more than three times the number of people who live here, EVERY DAY. Add to that that our government pays farmers NOT to farm, and you can see where this is going.

I get that you used food as an example, however, of a larger point about charity and welfare. It seems as though these interventions sustain otherwise unsustanable people, without any perceived benefit to the rest of society. Here is the answer that I would give for that:
If you let the bottom 10% die off- what would that mean for the other 90%? Most relevant answer, those who currently are the 10-19% will become the new 10% at the bottom, while those who are currently the top 10% would mostly acquire the accumulated wealth of the previous bottom 10% for themselves. As Jesus said "You will always have the poor".

What ought we to do, then? Support those who are unable to work (the elderly, orphans, the handicapped) and those who are working but do not make enough to sustain themselves and their families. Those who are able to work but choose not to can starve. If you (are able to but) do not work, you do not eat.

 

[rus_lady]

why does it have to deal with money ??? hello there !!! simple giving food support how u can you think its not act of charity ?? I am not saying i am all good , i am not !!! but i /so dont get that christians start to dived rich and poor .... i dont even know how to call it . there was one poor woman in my old church and she had no teeth ... u know how people with money start to act ?? they start to judge her and said ugly stuff and so on.... i dont even know what to say actually ... kind of tired from all this . give a call where i live and they will tell you who am i ... i am no better then anyone else in here , but i never could understand when people with money jumping on such conclusion about those who are poor . there is lot of ways of helping and supporting ... just do not separete words from your actions ......

 

[distinctiveministry]

why does it have to deal with money ??? hello there !!! simple giving food support how u can you think its not act of charity ?? I am not saying i am all good , i am not !!! but i /so dont get that christians start to dived rich and poor .... i dont even know how to call it . there was one poor woman in my old church and she had no teeth ... u know how people with money start to act ?? they start to judge her and said ugly stuff and so on.... i dont even know what to say actually ... kind of tired from all this . give a call where i live and they will tell you who am i ... i am no better then anyone else in here , but i never could understand when people with money jumping on such conclusion about those who are poor . there is lot of ways of helping and supporting ... just do not separete words from your actions ......

They jump to such conclusions because they (mistakenly) believe that they made themselves rich. "If I can do it, so-and-so should have been able to do it. They didn't, therefore they must be less_______ (intelligent, hardworking, wise, etc) than me." It is the hubris of the rich that they imagine that poverty is the fault of the impoverished without taking any time to consider circumstances.

 

[rus_lady]

Bingo !!!! there is no undersnading in them ... main fult of some people ! blind people who has away to lot of not needed pride !!! ouch !!!



quote=distinctiveministry;579963]They jump to such conclusions because they (mistakenly) believe that they made themselves rich. "If I can do it, so-and-so should have been able to do it. They didn't, therefore they must be less_______ (intelligent, hardworking, wise, etc) than me." It is the hubris of the rich that they imagine that poverty is the fault of the impoverished without taking any time to consider circumstances.[/quote]

 

[distinctiveministry]

All of the medicating and treating we do in "civilized nations" is meant to stave off death and keep people alive for as long as HUMANLY possible. The life expectancy gets longer and longer. People who have had multiple major heart attacks and complete organ replacements are alive and well and medicated beyond belief. "Nature" has tried to kill them multiple times. Man said no.

Now, I suppose you could say that God gave us the ability to heal each other using medicine and surgery and technology and all of these other things. God wants our quality of life to be good and God wants us to live for as long as possible. God loves science.

I've often discussed this with coworkers. I read somewhere (and really need to source it for credibility) that something like 50% of all the money spent on healthcare gets spent during the last 5 years of a person's life. No wonder we have a national healthcare crisis!
I agree with you- everyone is terminal! We would do much better to recognize that people who are 70 yrs+ should be treated to make them comfortable, not "well". This is not a purely financial decision either, but an acceptance that death is near either way, and living the last few years with constant health issues is hardly worth it. I have already told my wife that when we get older and it is obvious that my health is failing, then I want to go comfortably, but otherwise can accept that I may die of terminal cancer or other disease. Same thing if I am in a terrible accident- if the only way that I could live is to hook me up to machines that do my breathing for me and stuff like that, then it is time to let me go!

 

[rainacorn]

I've often discussed this with coworkers. I read somewhere (and really need to source it for credibility) that something like 50% of all the money spent on healthcare gets spent during the last 5 years of a person's life. No wonder we have a national healthcare crisis!
I agree with you- everyone is terminal! We would do much better to recognize that people who are 70 yrs+ should be treated to make them comfortable, not "well". This is not a purely financial decision either, but an acceptance that death is near either way, and living the last few years with constant health issues is hardly worth it. I have already told my wife that when we get older and it is obvious that my health is failing, then I want to go comfortably, but otherwise can accept that I may die of terminal cancer or other disease. Same thing if I am in a terrible accident- if the only way that I could live is to hook me up to machines that do my breathing for me and stuff like that, then it is time to let me go!

lol I have had a similar conversation with my spouse. "When it is obvious that God wants me dead, just let it happen, baby."

Look at someone like Dick Cheney. Now I'm not saying he deserves to die, but the man is half machine! Is this progress or defiance of the natural process?

 

[distinctiveministry]

lol I have had a similar conversation with my spouse. "When it is obvious that God wants me dead, just let it happen, baby."

Look at someone like Dick Cheney. Now I'm not saying he deserves to die, but the man is half machine! Is this progress or defiance of the natural process?

I'll allow my lack of commentary to suffice.