More about Israel.

[God-fearing]

So if there is an opposing view to my one about the Abrahamic covenant what would that be?
Are the promises of Abraham guaranteed to all who are born into his physical family?

That would not be a position that can be defended from the Bible.
Ishmael did not inherit them, neither did Esau.
Many of the children of Jacob also forsook God and also lost their inheritance.
Jesus told some Pharisees "Ye are of your father the devil", meaning that they were not children of God, despite being Jews.
God is the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, so if their father is the devil they do not inherit the promises of Abraham.
Jesus also said "I can raise up children of Abraham from these stones", meaning that the promises of Abraham are inherited by a spiritual kingdom, not a physical one.

So yes, all the promises of Abraham were to Jesus who is his seed, and it is in Jesus that all the families of the earth are blessed.
Jewish people are under the Abrahamic covenant only if their Father is the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, and that of course means that they believe in Jesus.

I believe that God will in his perfect time lift the blindness he has imposed on them. That Christ will reign a thousand yrs here on earth . I believe that Christ died for all and by God imposing a blindness upon a people to not see their savior is Christ without lifting it in some way seems out of character of God. Paul seems to be a example of that.
When the jews are told to flee to the mountains it is believed that the exit through bosrah into petra also known as the sheep's gate.
I can tell you right now food rations and supplies have been placed there by messianic jews for sometime now enough provision to sustain a great multitude of people.

Sheep's gate......Jesus the good shepherd.

 

[Beekeeper]

Zionist Sabbath worshippers are always stirring up strife on here and always bring up the holocaust.

So why bring that up?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Zionist Sabbath worshippers are always stirring up strife on here and always bring up the holocaust.

God is a Zionist. Whats wrong with bringing up the Holocaust?!

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Because "we" apparently all don't know that and some here push Replacement Theology.




No, Replacement theology is saying God is done with Israel and now the church are the chosen ones.

I believe that God will in his perfect time lift the blindness he has imposed on them. That Christ will reign a thousand yrs here on earth . I believe that Christ died for all and by God imposing a blindness upon a people to not see their savior is Christ without lifting it in some way seems out of character of God. Paul seems to be a example of that.
When the jews are told to flee to the mountains it is believed that the exit through bosrah into petra also known as the sheep's gate.
I can tell you right now food rations and supplies have been placed there by messianic jews for sometime now enough provision to sustain a great multitude of people.

Sheep's gate......Jesus the good shepherd.

The Jews being told to flee to the mountains is symbolism.A carnal thinking jew would go there literally and find nothing there to save them.

Psalm 125:1-5
They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.
As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.

That verse about fleeing to the mountains is about feeling to the remnant,the 144,000 at that time and those who believe in their testimony of The Two Witnesses.
The mountains round about Jerusalem is like the verse about God wishing to gather up his people like a hen gathers up her chicks.
Then he reverses the symbolism saying so the Lord is round about his people from henceforth even forever,because everything is about Jesus.
Jerusalem is Jesus just as is true Israel.We are the image of him.We are in the image of the kingdom of God.Heaven on earth.


For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous put forth their hands unto iniquity.
Do good, O LORD, unto those that be good, and to them that are upright in their hearts.
As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways, the LORD shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity: but peace shall be upon Israel.

See,all those who have the Holy Spirit have peace upon them.

I swear it has to be a spirit preventing dispensationalists from seeing with their spiritual eyes, and they wont understand what I mean by this post,partly because I'm not very good at explaining things to begin with.

Simply put,those who are drawn by their spirit to The Two Witnesses/word of God, which the 144,000 sing of,are fleeing to the mountains.

 

[brightfame52]

Israel and the Church the same !

That Israel and the Church are the same and are unified from the OT to the NT is seen in the Gospel and its proclamation.

The Church’s oneness Is Taught By The Gospel Promises To The Patriarchs OR Father's, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob !

That promise was made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Genesis 22:18 contains it as well as other parts of the Old Testament. “And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed: because thou hast obeyed My voice.”

Now that is a gospel promise; let me ask you to look at Galatians 3:8, “The scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.”

This same promise that Paul says belonged to the gentiles Justification, Peter preaches it to the jews:

in Acts 3:25, 26, said to the Jews, “Ye are the children of the prophets. and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up His Son Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”

Of course Peter did not at this time realize that gentiles were included in those promises and were also the Children of the Prophets.

For Abraham was a Prophet according to Gen 20:7

Now therefore restore the man [Abraham] his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

And Believers in Christ are Children of Abraham Gal 3 :7,29

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed or children, and heirs according to the promise.

Jew of Gentile, race does not matter, if we are of Faith the same are children of Abraham.

So unknowingly Peter in Acts 3 :25-26 was speaking about some Gentiles to.

And of course Paul made it clear in Gal 3:8

So, NT Believers are The Children of the Patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and if we NT Believers are the Church of Christ, why not our Fathers ?

We know Abraham believed in Christ from this scripture, for Jesus said of him Jn 8:56

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

No doubt Jesus had been revealed to Him as His righteousness, and of His seed's righteousness as well !

For certainly, if we the Children have Christ as our righteousness, then He must have been our Fathers righteousness. For the Children of Abraham, those God would justify by Faith Gal 3:8, He must have Justified their Father Abraham by Faith, and Christ was that seed to whom all the blessings of Justification would come by.

And of Abraham's natural Children, Isaac was included, but Ishmael was rejected, Jacob was included, but Esau was rejected in blessing of Justification.

So Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were believers in Christ ! And as Believers are Children of Abraham, so also of Isaac and Jacob.

The great deceiver, has blinded many to this Truth 4

 

[Beekeeper]

now the church are the chosen ones

The word that they translate "church",
Ecclesia.
"Ec" means "out",
"clesia" means "called ones".
The Called out ones.

This has been going on since Adam and Eve.
It is older than Israel.

 

[BetterCallPsalms]

God is a Zionist. Whats wrong with bringing up the Holocaust?!

Yeah, I'm sure God cares about a piece of land on a world that he intends to destroy and replace with a new Earth and a new Heavens.

 

[dkontner]

John 4​

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Churchgoer]

Thou shall not call God's name in vain.

 

[HeIsHere]

Yeah, I'm sure God cares about a piece of land on a world that he intends to destroy and replace with a new Earth and a new Heavens.

I do not believe the literal heaven and earth will be destroyed since that was a reference to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

However, scripture is clear Christ Jesus fulfilled all the promises.

Romans 15:8
For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the circumcised on behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs,

 

[Churchgoer]

I do not believe the literal heaven and earth will be destroyed since that was a reference to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

However, scripture is clear Christ Jesus fulfilled all the promises.

Romans 15:8
For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the circumcised on behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs,

John 8 32, the truth shall set you free.

Hold on to the truth, children of God.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Thou shall not call God's name in vain.

Are you talking to me? Better read your Bible again.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Yeah, I'm sure God cares about a piece of land on a world that he intends to destroy and replace with a new Earth and a new Heavens.

Israel is mentioned 25000 times in the OT. God has a plan for the Jews still. If you don't see God's love for Israel, you're not reading the same Book.

 

[HeIsHere]

I have a friend who believes in Amillennialism. We talk about it, but I am not convinced that Satan has been bound.

He is not bound but he has lost his authority, the accuser lost his standing forever because of the victory of Christ Jesus.
However, I am a post-millennial.

 

[Vucesa]

I have an afterthought about this question that you asked me.
We so often hear people that we respect speaking about Jesus' kingdom in Revelations as if it fits into a time and a geography that we forget everything He has already taught us about it.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Jhon 8:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence

Mathew 16:28 28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Note Jesus was not talking to people of future generations.
He lived in the old covenant, and the New covenant is everlasting and therefore cannot last for a literal 1000 years, or be fulfilled within a particular place on the map.
Some (including John) with whom Jesus spoke also saw Jerusalem destroyed, signifying the death of the old and the rise of the new.
Christs kingdom cannot last for a literal 1000 years also because it is EVERLASTING.

2Peter 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
(notice that "hath" is present tense)

I believe the kingdom is eternal and is already present, we are in the already-not-yet phase. But if Scripture is read plainly there will be a 1000 year millennium on earth to fulfill the promises given to Israel.

That is my biggest issue with amill, so many prophecies have to be spiritualized. Especially things like Isaiah 11 where an infant is able to put his hand in the cobra's den. That cannot be today, that cannot be in the eternal state, therefore it has to be in the millennium. I have yet to hear a good amil response to those kind of verses which I why I am so hesitant to embrace that fully. I have to admit Kim Riddlebarger has some good arguments as does Sam Storms. But so far I will stay historic premill after reading the books.

 

[BetterCallPsalms]

Israel is mentioned 25000 times in the OT. God has a plan for the Jews still. If you don't see God's love for Israel, you're not reading the same Book.

God love's the body of Christ. He knows his sheep. Focus on Christ and not worldly matters. And yes, Jews and people of every race and creed are and still will continue to turn to Christ. Now grow up and quit causing strife.

 

[BetterCallPsalms]

I do not believe the literal heaven and earth will be destroyed since that was a reference to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

However, scripture is clear Christ Jesus fulfilled all the promises.

Romans 15:8
For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the circumcised on behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs,

May I ask why you believe that relates to the destruction of the temple? And what scriptures you have read to come to this conclusion?

 

[God-fearing]

The Jews being told to flee to the mountains is symbolism.A carnal thinking jew would go there literally and find nothing there to save them.

Psalm 125:1-5
They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.
As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.

That verse about fleeing to the mountains is about feeling to the remnant,the 144,000 at that time and those who believe in their testimony of The Two Witnesses.
The mountains round about Jerusalem is like the verse about God wishing to gather up his people like a hen gathers up her chicks.
Then he reverses the symbolism saying so the Lord is round about his people from henceforth even forever,because everything is about Jesus.
Jerusalem is Jesus just as is true Israel.We are the image of him.We are in the image of the kingdom of God.Heaven on earth.


For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous put forth their hands unto iniquity.
Do good, O LORD, unto those that be good, and to them that are upright in their hearts.
As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways, the LORD shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity: but peace shall be upon Israel.

See,all those who have the Holy Spirit have peace upon them.

I swear it has to be a spirit preventing dispensationalists from seeing with their spiritual eyes, and they wont understand what I mean by this post,partly because I'm not very good at explaining things to begin with.

Simply put,those who are drawn by their spirit to The Two Witnesses/word of God, which the 144,000 sing of,are fleeing to the mountains.

The Jews being told to flee to the mountains is symbolism.A carnal thinking jew would go there literally and find nothing there to save them.

Psalm 125:1-5
They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever.
As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.

That verse about fleeing to the mountains is about feeling to the remnant,the 144,000 at that time and those who believe in their testimony of The Two Witnesses.
The mountains round about Jerusalem is like the verse about God wishing to gather up his people like a hen gathers up her chicks.
Then he reverses the symbolism saying so the Lord is round about his people from henceforth even forever,because everything is about Jesus.
Jerusalem is Jesus just as is true Israel.We are the image of him.We are in the image of the kingdom of God.Heaven on earth.


For the rod of the wicked shall not rest upon the lot of the righteous; lest the righteous put forth their hands unto iniquity.
Do good, O LORD, unto those that be good, and to them that are upright in their hearts.
As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways, the LORD shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity: but peace shall be upon Israel.

See,all those who have the Holy Spirit have peace upon them.

I swear it has to be a spirit preventing dispensationalists from seeing with their spiritual eyes, and they wont understand what I mean by this post,partly because I'm not very good at explaining things to begin with.

Simply put,those who are drawn by their spirit to The Two Witnesses/word of God, which the 144,000 sing of,are fleeing to the mountains.

A little knowledge goes along way. Been taught this 30 yrs ago.

 

[HeIsHere]

May I ask why you believe that relates to the destruction of the temple? And what scriptures you have read to come to this conclusion?

The term "heaven and earth" was an idiom well known at the time for the Temple. It was were heaven and earth met in the physical world (holy of holies).

People use the term "spiritualize" which I think is kinda of a lazy way to attack the correct hermeneutical system which is actually far more consistent and one which respects the expressive language style of the time rather than the literal interpretative method.

We need to read scripture how the ancient people expressed themselves, not how we express ourselves in this modern era.

Spritualize is incorrect, the correct division is abstract or literal.

Anyway it is easy to find out about this, it was well understood before the onslaught of the literal dispensationalist approach of the last 100 years.

 

[brightfame52]

Israel is mentioned 25000 times in the OT. God has a plan for the Jews still. If you don't see God's love for Israel, you're not reading the same Book.

And the times Israel is mentioned in reference to Salvation as Per Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Its about the Church, the Body of Christ Gal 3:28-29 Its not about the physical nation