Calvinism is Gospel !

[IS]

Wrong,
G-d is holy, hoiy is the summation of all G-d's characteristics. He cannot love at the expense of His righteousness., let alone justic, etc.
G-d is not love. G-d is holy love. G-d is not righteous, G-d is holy righteous, G-d is not Just, G-d is holy Just, etc.
But because the verse doesn't explicitly lay down a several-page sound bite of everything said before, it'll be selectively pulled out of context.

On it's face value if G-d is love, whatever that means, worldly, carnal, etc., then there's no reason for the propitiation and atonement. That is, despite what you make up or reject like eternal conscious torment. No difference between what you expressed and unbelievers, especially humanists and Pelagians.

To clarify, because the verse doesn't explicitly lay down a several-page preamble to soundbite against selective eisegesis, it'll be pulled out of context and used to convey what the reader wants it to say, that is, rather than if ever understanding what the author meant to convey.

Based upon what you conveyed, there's no reason for the propitiation and atonement. That is, despite what you make up or reject like eternal conscious torment. No difference between what you expressed and unbelievers, especially humanists and Pelagians.

You cannot be systematic if you believe in tulip, because a systematic study of every tulip prooftext in context reveals that God loves everyone and does not show favoritism.

Those are big words, concepts, etc.,
Undoubtedly, you're approaching Universalism.
Sin against the eternal holy G-d has eternal consequences.
Any man could have died upon the cross, unless...
Wasn't this a Calvinist thread? Now it's back to Christianity 101.

 

[pinebeach]

If you google something like “errors of RB Thieme”, you will find many opinions about him. It is worth investigating what others have said about Thieme.

Is that what you did? What led you to do that?

Yes and the Pharisees attributed the works of Jesus to the devil. I have come a long way, a very long way, since my first understanding of salvation. While I may have been the sheep Jesus had to rescue on more than one occasion,
I believe that God has led me and revealed truth to me, as that is what my heart is fixed on. I believe He knows our hearts
and whom He can trust with what.

I understand about people's opinions and false accusations and how crazy some people are; not understanding teaching or
Bible study, and then taking their own personalities and exercising their lack of understanding to the most harm. I also know
there is a plethora of false teachers 'out there' that people follow while their Bibles collect dust.

Well I don't need to defend anyone, God allows things that I would not, so it's a good thing I don't have a say in it.

 

[Anchorite]

Is that what you did? What led you to do that?

Yes and the Pharisees attributed the works of Jesus to the devil. I have come a long way, a very long way, since my first understanding of salvation. While I may have been the sheep Jesus had to rescue on more than one occasion,
I believe that God has led me and revealed truth to me, as that is what my heart is fixed on. I believe He knows our hearts
and whom He can trust with what.

I understand about people's opinions and false accusations and how crazy some people are; not understanding teaching or
Bible study, and then taking their own personalities and exercising their lack of understanding to the most harm. I also know
there is a plethora of false teachers 'out there' that people follow while their Bibles collect dust.

Well I don't need to defend anyone, God allows things that I would not, so it's a good thing I don't have a say in it.

I investigated RB Thieme quite a while ago. His name was mentioned on a forum, some praising him, others warning against him.

I have googled “[Bible teacher name] controversy” for every pastor and teacher I have ever liked or heard about.

This is standard procedure for me now and it has been a good practice.

Even my favorites have had some imperfections, mostly minor mistakes.

I know there are slanders and false accusations, but sometimes there is a large amount of material that seems legitimate.

Followers of a teacher heap praises on them and it is not always easy to dig deeper. Charisma and authoritarian demeanor can be impressive, but deceptive.

 

[Cameron143]

I always find it interesting that those who act the least like Christ believe they know the most about Him.

 

[IS]

Well I don't need to defend anyone, God allows things that I would not, so it's a good thing I don't have a say in it.

Isn't that the truth? Rather than the surety, people play the devil's advocate, and "they" turn to argumentum ad populum or bandwagons rather than to the true surety. The surety is the only true propitiation and atonement.
In the background they shout Sola Scriptura isn't found in the bible!

I have googled “[Bible teacher name] controversy” for every pastor and teacher I have ever liked or heard about.

This is standard procedure for me now and it has been a good practice.

Even my favorites have had some imperfections, mostly minor mistakes.

I know there are slanders and false accusations, but sometimes there is a large amount of material that seems legitimate.

Followers of a teacher heap praises on them and it is not always easy to dig deeper. Charisma and authoritarian demeanor can be impressive, but deceptive.

I prefer dead theologians whose works have stood the test of time. Good to know that Google has weight in determining the ranking of theologians. Google has long used opposition to smear anything that the company doesn't politically agree w/.

I always find it interesting that those who act the least like Christ believe they know the most about Him.

The path of least resistance appeals to the majority.
G-d forbid, that Jesus is made into the man of lawlessness.
I often muse that one day many that thirst for righteousness will be satisfied, and many at that time will turn away from the 2nd coming of Christ. He won't fit into their humanistic projected image (not queer enough).
That big meanie.

I agree and disagree with your statement simultaneously ; I believe people are double-minded and have no problem acting on either side of the world stage. Suppose they themselves are the type and shadow of 1/2 comings, half historical and half eschatological.
Let's face it, the feminization of American culture has been ushered in by the church, but that's for a different topic.

 

[HeIsHere]

Wrong,
G-d is holy, hoiy is the summation of all G-d's characteristics. He cannot love at the expense of His righteousness., let alone justic, etc.
G-d is not love. G-d is holy love. G-d is not righteous, G-d is holy righteous, G-d is not Just, G-d is holy Just, etc.
But because the verse doesn't explicitly lay down a several-page sound bite of everything said before, it'll be selectively pulled out of context.

On it's face value if G-d is love, whatever that means, worldly, carnal, etc., then there's no reason for the propitiation and atonement. That is, despite what you make up or reject like eternal conscious torment. No difference between what you expressed and unbelievers, especially humanists and Pelagians.

Did you refer to Pelagians again......., you do know he was an exaggerated character, false doctrine needs an any enemy, how else can it spread and become a cancer on Christendom.

Back to the drawing board for you!!

 

[IS]

Did you refer to Pelagians again......., you do know he was an exaggerated character, false doctrine needs an any enemy, how else can it spread and become a cancer on Christendom.

Back to the drawing board for you!!

So was Erasmus. And those churches, like the Roman Catholics that spun off Pelagianism into semi-double-mindedness. We agree with Augustine while aligning with Pelagius. Ever debate members of the RCC, common theological terms redefined.

You're just full of inspiration @HeIsHere
Next up Wormwood attacks believers because there can't be a Q-tip-colored, frizzy-haired man in the clouds. Leave it to Wormwood to consider the difficult questions and develop from 1st-grade objections. And what are horses doing up there? Is there some kind of farm? Oxen, etc.? EIEIO.
In the defense of Wormwood, most translations are written in third-grade English.

Pelagianism (semi): Six years after the council of Carthage a general council of African Churches reaffirmed the anathemas of 412 AD. Zosimus sided with Pelagius in 412, he wrote a letter condemning the anathema of Carthage. Of course having the support of Scripture, the leaders of the Carthagian Council disregarded the Bishop and his letter. Philip Schaff noted church historian observes, “This temporary favor of the bishop of Rome towards the Pelagian heresy is a significant presage of the indulgence of later popes for pelagianizing tendencies”.

Pelagianizing, get it! Like plagiarism!

 

[Anchorite]

Wrong,
G-d is holy, hoiy is the summation of all G-d's characteristics. He cannot love at the expense of His righteousness., let alone justic, etc.
G-d is not love. G-d is holy love. G-d is not righteous, G-d is holy righteous, G-d is not Just, G-d is holy Just, etc.
But because the verse doesn't explicitly lay down a several-page sound bite of everything said before, it'll be selectively pulled out of context.

On it's face value if G-d is love, whatever that means, worldly, carnal, etc., then there's no reason for the propitiation and atonement. That is, despite what you make up or reject like eternal conscious torment. No difference between what you expressed and unbelievers, especially humanists and Pelagians.

You actually say “God is not love.”

You say you do not know what love is: “if God is love, whatever that means, worldly, carnal, etc.”

God is holy. Holy means completely different from sinners. Holy means other than common, vulgar, tainted, polluted, stained, corrupted, wicked.

The primary Hebrew word for "holy" is kadosh (קָדוֹשׁ), which translates literally to "set apart," "separated," or "sacred".

Items in the temple (like utensils) or the nation of Israel were called kadosh not because they were flawless, but because they were claimed by God for a specific role.

What sets God apart? His love, which was manifested by His Son Jesus healing everyone who came to Him and forgiving sins.

God is love because of His holy sinlessness. Free from evil, full of love.

God’s love is not “worldly, carnal, etc.” God’s love is spiritual, pure, full of goodness — and it was displayed in Christ.

John 3:16,17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[IS]

You actually say “God is not love.”

You say you do not know what love is: “if God is love, whatever that means, worldly, carnal, etc.”

God is holy. Holy means completely different from sinners. Holy means other than common, vulgar, tainted, polluted, stained, corrupted, wicked.

The primary Hebrew word for "holy" is kadosh (קָדוֹשׁ), which translates literally to "set apart," "separated," or "sacred".

Items in the temple (like utensils) or the nation of Israel were called kadosh not because they were flawless, but because they were claimed by God for a specific role.

What sets God apart? His love, which was manifested by His Son Jesus healing everyone who came to Him and forgiving sins.

God is love because of His holy sinlessness. Free from evil, full of love.

God’s love is not “worldly, carnal, etc.” God’s love is spiritual, pure, full of goodness — and it was displayed in Christ.

John 3:16,17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Damage control: a little poison in wholesome food is quite tastefully deadly.
You ignore in style what I said in context: step up on the humble award podium once again, while keeping the trophy.
Better I hit the little ignore button like that.

 

[pinebeach]

I investigated RB Thieme quite a while ago. His name was mentioned on a forum, some praising him, others warning against him.

I have googled “[Bible teacher name] controversy” for every pastor and teacher I have ever liked or heard about.

This is standard procedure for me now and it has been a good practice.

Even my favorites have had some imperfections, mostly minor mistakes.

I know there are slanders and false accusations, but sometimes there is a large amount of material that seems legitimate.

Followers of a teacher heap praises on them and it is not always easy to dig deeper. Charisma and authoritarian demeanor can be impressive, but deceptive.

Well that's what I thought since you were eager to point out what you perceive as error.

I was thinking you did not have any references...which are pretty standard for controversy. For example, when I started the
Adventist thread back in March of this year, I provided footnotes and proof of everything I posted. So, if I want to 'research' Thieme
with reference to negative reactions I guess I can just use a search engine to do that.

Anyway, that's how things are these days.

​

 

[IS]

Yes and the Pharisees attributed the works of Jesus to the devil.

And let's not forget what John the Baptist and both Jesus slammed back w/.



Often Calvinists are charged w/ burning witches, "Salem Witch Trials." I often respond, "What's wrong with capital punishment for convicted witches?"
Something to consider today:

 

[brightfame52]

You did not quote the verse, you just gave a reference to it.

Yeah they going into the lake of fire forever. Does God Love them while forever in the Lake of fire ? From what I understand, its going to be tormenting Rev 14 10-11

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Maybe someone will tell them smile God Loves you !

 

[brightfame52]

How can God be righteous without being loving when love is the fruit of His Holy Spirit?! Double-think?
God casts no one into hell; evil souls reap what they sow. Do not blame God for their sin.
SPUR

So does He Love the devil and his angels since Love is the fruit of His Holy Spirit ?

 

[IS]

Yeah they going into the lake of fire forever. Does God Love them while forever in the Lake of fire ? From what I understand, its going to be tormenting Rev 14 10-11

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Maybe someone will tell them smile God Loves you !

I remember, to me, what was most profound in Jonah. In Sheol, G-d heard Jonah. Why say Sheol?
G-d is omnipresent, here, there, and even in hell, but like the words of the militant atheist that say there is no G-d, G-d is not everywhere to be blessed by His presence. Those very words said by atheists often defile them.
G-d's wrath is also holy and brings about His glory.
One thing I know, no matter who, spouse, friends, children, etc., whether justice or mercy, wrath or grace, the twenty-four elders shall praise G-d before His throne.
I have been responded to by some in person that say, "I don't have that kind of faith."
Consider that rejection, the holy, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent Judge and His verdict.
Yet, why might somebody reject His ruling?
That's a question that should cause serious self-examination.

Jonathan Edwards once preached "in the hands of an angry G-d" that caused an American awakening. Edwards was known to read his sermons, prepared w/ careful exegesis and w/ a monotone voice for hours on end (the length of his sermons).
Imagine that! No music, no gimmicks....

 

[Bible_Locket]

Yes. God is respecting their choices.

But,nothing God said in his word tells readers those in Hell,when they're not there yet,actually chose Hell.

Unbelievers would be more tormented in heaven than in hell.

How so? When,in Heaven they realized they had been wrong.

God takes no delight in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 33:11).

And yet,he killed so many of them.
And in the New Testament we learn,they died as the wicked because they were not chosen to by God to be on his grace.

I'm neither Calvinist not Arminian. God is sovereign and man is responsible.

Sovereignty overrules human will.

God cannot stop loving because it is His nature.

For the sake of truth as Scripture tells it,we should stop with the falsehood that insists God is love.
As if that is his sole identity.

God also hates. One of many examples. Proverbs 6.

Thinking God lives to send people to Hell because it was their choice to go there, is not only in biblical. It is Satanic.

For sure God hates the evil of men. But He also sent Jesus to die for us while we were sinners.

We are Sinners by God's will.

God is love, but He is also to be respected with reverential fear

It is error to insist the passage refers to being the same as afraid.
Fear actually means in proper understanding,respect God. Not be afraid of him.

 

[Genez]

Is there a set packet of questions that Calvinists receive when they complete the Calvinist training course, ten years and the same questions by different people over and over again.

They are "used doctrine salesmen."
(if doctrines were cars)

 

[IS]

They are "used doctrine salesmen."
(if doctrines were cars)

Reminds me of Calvary Chapel; they got rid of all the Calvinist pastors while they were bragging about expository preaching and theologically regressing back to Catholicism. Belief statements like "Anybody can will themselves to G-d filled pages of each independent church under the non-denominational banner." Suppose each of them contributed to each of the 40k-plus denomination list.
Ever sit in a church for the first time and think to yourself, "I'm going brain dead here"?

@Genez What does your screen name mean? Gen Z?

 

[Anchorite]

But,nothing God said in his word tells readers those in Hell,when they're not there yet,actually chose Hell.

How so? When,in Heaven they realized they had been wrong.

And yet,he killed so many of them.
And in the New Testament we learn,they died as the wicked because they were not chosen to by God to be on his grace.

Sovereignty overrules human will.


For the sake of truth as Scripture tells it,we should stop with the falsehood that insists God is love.
As if that is his sole identity.

God also hates. One of many examples. Proverbs 6.

Thinking God lives to send people to Hell because it was their choice to go there, is not only in biblical. It is Satanic.


We are Sinners by God's will.

Wrong. God never wills people to be sinners. That would make God the author of sin.


1 Timothy 2:3,4

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.



No Bible verse says God is hate.

Bible says God is love.

• 1 John 4:8: "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

• 1 John 4:16: "And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him."

• 1 John 4:10: "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Unrepentant sinners actually do choose hell, darkness, evil — because they reject the light.

They hate the light. Heaven is the realm of light. So they do not want heaven. Their choice is hell.


John 3

19And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil.

20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.

 

[GWH]

So does He Love the devil and his angels since Love is the fruit of His Holy Spirit ?

Matt. 5:44&48, Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[IS]

Matt. 5:44&48, Rom. 5:6-8.

There are only a handful of soteriological camps that every church, if consistent, falls into. In other words, 40+k denominations can be broken down in the schools of thought: Arianism, Pelagianism (semi-), Arminianism, Calvinism, and Universalism.

Guess which one is Eglatarian and flys rainbow flags?