The book of Job

[tttallison]

God knows you will sin before you sin ... does that make God responsible for your sin?

No, God is not responsible for Job's sin.

God restraining satan from outright killing Job does not equal God being responsible for "everything outside the limits" He placed on satan.

satan is wholly responsible for the actions he took against Job.

.

Consider what was said between Satan and God.

1st Test​

Satan said, "But put forth your hand now, and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face."
God said, "Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself put not forth your hand."

2nd Test​

Satan said, "But put forth your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face."

God said, "Behold, he is in your hand; but save his life."

God gave permission to Satan to touch all that Job had in the 1st test, knowing Satan would take all of Job's possessions.

God gave permission to Satan to touch his bone and flesh in the 2nd test, knowing Satan would touch his bone and his flesh

Satan acted with God's permission, so who is responsible? Is it not the one who is in charge?

 

[tttallison]

God’s testimony at the end of the story is that Job, His servant, has spoken what is “right” about Him. God explicitly states this twice.

Again, in reading this story, I just accepted God’s explicit testimony about Job as written.

How about you?

What was it that Job said that was right, because in chapter thirty eight we are told by God that Job was without knowledge. Surely the right thing was not when Job said God would laugh at the trial of the innocent, or when Job said, "Is it good unto thee that thou shouldest oppress, that thou shouldest despise the work of thine hands, and shine upon the counsel of the wicked?" Or when Job cursed his day, or when Job told God to go away?

Isn't it more than likely that the right thing was what Job said in the last chapter, when he said, Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. And the right thing Job said was "I abhor myself and repent in dust and ashes."

What do you think the thoughts where that Job had been hiding from God?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

tttallison said:

If you introduce someone to a hitman and you know the hitman will want to take the person out, and you know the ending before the beginning, then you are responsible.​

reneweddaybyday said:

God knows you will sin before you sin ... does that make God responsible for your sin?​

No, God is not responsible for Job's sin.

We were discussing the "hitman" ... who was not the "hitman"? [hint ... Job was not the "hitman"]

Consider what was said between Satan and God.

1st Test​

Satan said, "But put forth your hand now, and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face."

Do you believe it was God Who "put forth [His] Hand" and touched "all that [Job] has?

God said, "Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself put not forth your hand."

yes, God restrained satan and did not allow satan to touch Job.

2nd Test​

Satan said, "But put forth your hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face."

God said, "Behold, he is in your hand; but save his life."

God gave permission to Satan to touch all that Job had in the 1st test, knowing Satan would take all of Job's possessions.

God gave permission to Satan to touch his bone and flesh in the 2nd test, knowing Satan would touch his bone and his flesh

you agree it was satan who smote Job from the sole of his feet to the top of his head.

Satan acted with God's permission, so who is responsible?

satan.

Is it not the one who is in charge?

You agree that when you sin, you are responsible.

You agree it was satan who moved against Job even as he was restrained from touching Job in Job 1.

You agree it was satan who moved against Job even as he was restrained from outright killing Job in Job 2.

Yet when satan moved against Job and destroyed Job's livestock, killed Job's servants, kill Job's children, God was responsible ???

When satan moved against Job and afflicted Job with sore boils from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head, God was responsible ???

You really need to step back and think through your reasoning because God was definitely not responsible for satan's actions ... but satan loves that you for stick up for him ... smh ...

.

 

[christophernyc]

A proud man exalts himself. ​

Job 29:11 When the ear heard me, then it blessed me; and when the eye saw me, it gave witness to me:

Job 29:17 And I brake the jaws of the wicked, and plucked the spoil out of his teeth. (Taking gold from the teeth of the dead.)

Job 29:18 Then I said, I shall die in my nest, and I shall multiply my days as the sand.

Job 29:20 My glory was fresh in me, and my bow was renewed in my hand.

Job 29:21 Unto me men gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel.

Job 29:22 After my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them.

Job 29:23 And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide as for the latter rain.

Job 29:24 If I laughed on them, they believed it not; and the light of my countenance they cast not down.

Job 29:25 I chose out their way, and sat chief, and dwelt as a king in the army, as one that comforteth the mourners.

Job 27:6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.


A proud man cannot see his iniquity, so when he is chastised he becomes bitter. ​

Job 3:1 After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.

Job 3:23 Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in?

Job 6:9 Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!

Job 7:19 How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?

Job 10:3 Is it good unto thee that thou shouldest oppress, that thou shouldest despise the work of thine hands, and shine upon the counsel of the wicked?

Job 10:20 Are not my days few? cease then, and let me alone, that I may take comfort a little,

Job 9:15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.

Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.

You never addressed the verses where Job exudes humility in his statements. They prove your accusation against Job to be incorrect.

Repeating your talking points and ignoring the counter argument does not in any way validate your claims. It actually weakens them because it appears again to be avoidance.

Job 29:17 And I brake the jaws of the wicked, and plucked the spoil out of his teeth. (Taking gold from the teeth of the dead.)

This is such a wild distortion of what is being communicated here. Read the verse before about Job helping the poor. Consistent with that line of thinking, Job is talking about rescuing victims from evil people. Analogously, think of how Davide rescued sheep from the mouths of lions. It's the same concept here.

Also, you are now claiming Job is also a thief? Really?

But yet again, your independent interpretation contradicts God's testimony of Job. For you, not only is Job steeped in the sin of pride, but now he is a robber as well. You accuse Job of the sin of stealing yet God testifies that Job is upright, blameless, and one who shuns evil. God's testimony and your accusations are incompatible and at odds with each other. So either you're right or God's right.

Who do you believe more?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

tttallison said:

Job 29:17 And I brake the jaws of the wicked, and plucked the spoil out of his teeth. (Taking gold from the teeth of the dead.)​

This is such a wild distortion of what is being communicated here. Read the verse before about Job helping the poor. Consistent with that line of thinking, Job is talking about rescuing victims from evil people. Analogously, think of how Davide rescued sheep from the mouths of lions. It's the same concept here.

Also, you are now claiming Job is also a thief? Really?

Read the verse in a translation other than KJV:

New International Version​

I broke the fangs of the wicked and snatched the victims from their teeth.​

​

New Living Translation​

I broke the jaws of godless oppressors and plucked their victims from their teeth.​

​

English Standard Version​

I broke the fangs of the unrighteous and made him drop his prey from his teeth.​

​

New King James Version​

I broke the fangs of the wicked, And plucked the victim from his teeth.​

​

New American Standard Bible​

“I broke the jaws of the wicked And rescued the prey from his teeth.​

​

American Standard Version​

And I brake the jaws of the unrighteous, And plucked the prey out of his teeth.​

​

English Revised Version​

And I brake the jaws of the unrighteous, and plucked the prey out of his teeth.​

​

International Standard Version​

I broke the fangs of the wicked, and made him drop the prey."​

​

NET Bible​

I broke the fangs of the wicked, and made him drop his prey from his teeth.​

Job did not speak of "Taking gold from the teeth of the dead" to line his own pockets as inferred by tttallison ... Job spoke of helping to free victims from godless oppressors.

.

 

[tttallison]

tttallison said:

Job 29:17 And I brake the jaws of the wicked, and plucked the spoil out of his teeth. (Taking gold from the teeth of the dead.)​

Read the verse in a translation other than KJV:

New International Version​

I broke the fangs of the wicked and snatched the victims from their teeth.​

​

New Living Translation​

I broke the jaws of godless oppressors and plucked their victims from their teeth.​

​

English Standard Version​

I broke the fangs of the unrighteous and made him drop his prey from his teeth.​

​

New King James Version​

I broke the fangs of the wicked, And plucked the victim from his teeth.​

​

New American Standard Bible​

“I broke the jaws of the wicked And rescued the prey from his teeth.​

​

American Standard Version​

And I brake the jaws of the unrighteous, And plucked the prey out of his teeth.​

​

English Revised Version​

And I brake the jaws of the unrighteous, and plucked the prey out of his teeth.​

​

International Standard Version​

I broke the fangs of the wicked, and made him drop the prey."​

​

NET Bible​

I broke the fangs of the wicked, and made him drop his prey from his teeth.​

Job did not speak of "Taking gold from the teeth of the dead" to line his own pockets as inferred by tttallison ... Job spoke of helping to free victims from godless oppressors.

.

William Tyndale Bible 1535. Job 29:17 I brake the chafes of the unrighteous, and plucked the spoil out of their teeth.

King James Bible 1611. Job 29:17 And I brake the iawes of the wicked, and pluckt the spoile out of his teeth.

The Desirability of Keeping the Authorized Version​

by J. C. Philpot

(Written in 1857 when the Revised Version was contemplated)​

We take this opportunity to express our opinion upon a question much agitated of late--whether it would be desirable to have a new (or at least a revised) translation of the Scriptures. We fully admit that there are here and there passages of which the translation might be improved, as, for instance, "love" for "charity" all through 1 Corinthians 13; but we deprecate any alteration as a measure that, for the smallest sprinkling of good, would deluge us with a flood of evil. The following are our reasons:

1. Who are to undertake it? Into whose hands would the revision fall? What an opportunity for the enemies of truth to give us a mutilated false Bible! Of course, they must be learned men, great critics, scholars, and divines, but these are notoriously either Puseyites or Neologians (We should say: Anglo-Catholics and Modernists.)--in other words, deeply tainted with either popery or infidelity. Where are there learned men sound in the truth, not to say alive unto God, who possess the necessary qualifications for so important a work? And can erroneous men, men dead in trespasses and sins, carnal, worldly, ungodly persons, spiritually translate a book written by the blessed Spirit? We have not the slightest ground for hope that they would be godly men, such as we have reason to believe translated the Scriptures into our present version.

2. Again, it would unsettle the minds of thousands as to which was the Word of God, the old translation or the new. What a door it would open for the workings of infidelity, or the temptations of Satan! What a gloom, too, it would cast over the minds of many of God's saints to have those passages which had been applied to their souls translated in a different way, and how it would seem to shake all their experience of the power and preciousness of God's Word!

3. But besides this, there would be two Bibles spread through the land, the old and the new, and what confusion would this create in almost every place! At present, all sects and denominations agree in acknowledging our present version as the standard of appeal. Nothing settles disputes so soon as when the contending parties have confidence in the same umpire and are willing to abide by his decision. But this judge of all disputes, this umpire of all controversy, would cease to be the looser of strife if the present acknowledged authority were put an end to by a rival.

4. Again, if the revision and re-translation were once to begin, where would it end? It is good to let well alone, as it is easier to mar than mend. The Socinianising (Denying the Godhead of Christ) Neologian would blot out "God" in 1 Timothy 3:16 , and strike out 1 John 5:7,8, as an interpolation.

The Puseyite would mend it to suit Tractarian views (Led by Newman and Keble, the Tractarians were moving towards Romanism). He would read "priest" where we now read "elder," and put "penance" in the place of "repentance."

Once set up a notice, "THE OLD BIBLE TO BE MENDED," and there would be plenty of workmen, who, trying to mend the cover, would pull the pages to pieces. The Arminian would soften down the words "election" and "predestination" into some term less displeasing to Pharisaic ears. "Righteousness" would be turned into "justice," and "reprobate" into "undiscerning."

All our good Bible terms would be so mutilated that they would cease to convey the Spirit's meaning, and instead of the noble simplicity, faithfulness and truth of our present version, we should have a Bible that nobody would accept as the Word of God, to which none could safely appeal, and on which none could implicitly rely. (Taken from pages 103-105, Sin & Salvation, Selections from J. C. Philpot)

 

[reneweddaybyday]

William Tyndale Bible 1535. Job 29:17 I brake the chafes of the unrighteous, and plucked the spoil out of their teeth.

King James Bible 1611. Job 29:17 And I brake the iawes of the wicked, and pluckt the spoile out of his teeth.

In whatever version of the Bible a person reads, the word "spoil" is translated from the Hebrew word "ṭerep̄" which means "leaf, meat, prey, spoil" and is translated as "prey" in Job 4:11, Job 24:5, Job 38:39 ... as well as other verses in Scripture.

what we know for a fact is that the phrase "plucked the spoil out of their teeth" in Job 29:17 did not mean Job took "gold from the teeth of the dead" as you claimed.

.

 

[ZNP]

The Hebrews 6 Key: Two Stages of the Christian Life​

Hebrews 6:1-3 lays out something most believers read past too quickly: a "foundation" and a further stage called "perfection." The foundation is repentance, faith, baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment — the basics every Christian holds. Perfection (Greek teleiotes) doesn't mean sinless. It means completed, finished, brought to the end of a process. It's the same word used in Hebrews 12:23 for "the spirits of just men made perfect."

The book of Job is a divinely arranged picture of exactly this distinction. Job himself — restored, vindicated, and interceding for others by the end of the book — pictures the perfected company: those who have been tried and have come out the other side into the completion Hebrews describes. His three friends, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar, ask real and legitimate questions about hope, love, and faith. They aren't villains. They understand what's required of sinful men without yet having the full revelation of Jesus Christ as our righteousness. They picture tribulation saints — genuine believers who hold the foundational doctrines but who must be carried through a period of trial before reaching what Job already possesses.

This matters because it answers a question a lot of Christians never think to ask: is every believer in the same spiritual condition at any given moment? Scripture says no. Some have entered into a finished, covenantal union with Christ as a present reality. Others are Spirit-indwelt and genuinely saved, but still walking through the foundation. That distinction is the key that unlocks who is raptured, when, and why — the subject of everything that follows in this series.

Elihu, the fourth friend, is different again. He receives no answer from God at all — not rebuke, not restoration. He's simply passed over. He pictures something else: a religion that has replaced the living Christ with self-sufficient performance.

 

[tttallison]

In whatever version of the Bible a person reads, the word "spoil" is translated from the Hebrew word "ṭerep̄" which means "leaf, meat, prey, spoil" and is translated as "prey" in Job 4:11, Job 24:5, Job 38:39 ... as well as other verses in Scripture.

what we know for a fact is that the phrase "plucked the spoil out of their teeth" in Job 29:17 did not mean Job took "gold from the teeth of the dead" as you claimed.

.

If you don't like Job 29:17 toss it out. You still have plenty of verses were Job's pride is displayed. Take them one at a time.

Job 29:11 just oozes with pride.

Job 29:11 When the ear heard me, then it blessed me; and when the eye saw me, it gave witness to me:

Job wasn't able to bless God after the second test, but Job thinks there is plenty of reason for others to bless him.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If you don't like Job 29:17 toss it out. You still have plenty of verses were Job's pride is displayed. Take them one at a time.

Your assumption that I "don't like Job 19:17" is ludicrous.

Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror before making claims about others since you're the one who does not "like Job 29:17" when you are shown the correct interpretation of the verse.

Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Job 29:11 just oozes with pride.

Job 29:11 When the ear heard me, then it blessed me; and when the eye saw me, it gave witness to me:

Job wasn't able to bless God after the second test, but Job thinks there is plenty of reason for others to bless him.

nope ... verses 12-13 tell you why folks listened to and blessed Job after they heard him speak and saw what Job did ...

Job 29:11-13

11 When the ear heard me, then it blessed me; and when the eye saw me, it gave witness to me:

12 Because I delivered the poor that cried, and the fatherless, and him that had none to help him.

13 The blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me: and I caused the widow's heart to sing for joy.

Because Job delivered the poor, the fatherless, and those who had no help ... they blessed Job ... folks blessed Job and widows sang for joy because Job had helped them in their need.

.

 

[tttallison]

Your assumption that I "don't like Job 19:17" is ludicrous.

Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror before making claims about others since you're the one who does not "like Job 29:17" when you are shown the correct interpretation of the verse.

Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.





nope ... verses 12-13 tell you why folks listened to and blessed Job after they heard him speak and saw what Job did ...

Job 29:11-13

11 When the ear heard me, then it blessed me; and when the eye saw me, it gave witness to me:

12 Because I delivered the poor that cried, and the fatherless, and him that had none to help him.

13 The blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me: and I caused the widow's heart to sing for joy.

Because Job delivered the poor, the fatherless, and those who had no help ... they blessed Job ... folks blessed Job and widows sang for joy because Job had helped them in their need.

.

Job's best friend said this of Job.-------Job 22:5-9 Is not thy wickedness great? and thine iniquities infinite? For thou hast taken a pledge from thy brother for nought, and stripped the naked of their clothing. Thou hast not given water to the weary to drink, and thou hast withholden bread from the hungry. But as for the mighty man, he had the earth; and the honourable man dwelt in it. Thou hast sent widows away empty, and the arms of the fatherless have been broken.

So who do you believe Job who brags on himself, or his best friend, who knows him better than anyone.

 

[tttallison]

The Hebrews 6 Key: Two Stages of the Christian Life​

Hebrews 6:1-3 lays out something most believers read past too quickly: a "foundation" and a further stage called "perfection." The foundation is repentance, faith, baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment — the basics every Christian holds. Perfection (Greek teleiotes) doesn't mean sinless. It means completed, finished, brought to the end of a process. It's the same word used in Hebrews 12:23 for "the spirits of just men made perfect."

The book of Job is a divinely arranged picture of exactly this distinction. Job himself — restored, vindicated, and interceding for others by the end of the book — pictures the perfected company: those who have been tried and have come out the other side into the completion Hebrews describes. His three friends, Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar, ask real and legitimate questions about hope, love, and faith. They aren't villains. They understand what's required of sinful men without yet having the full revelation of Jesus Christ as our righteousness. They picture tribulation saints — genuine believers who hold the foundational doctrines but who must be carried through a period of trial before reaching what Job already possesses.

This matters because it answers a question a lot of Christians never think to ask: is every believer in the same spiritual condition at any given moment? Scripture says no. Some have entered into a finished, covenantal union with Christ as a present reality. Others are Spirit-indwelt and genuinely saved, but still walking through the foundation. That distinction is the key that unlocks who is raptured, when, and why — the subject of everything that follows in this series.

Elihu, the fourth friend, is different again. He receives no answer from God at all — not rebuke, not restoration. He's simply passed over. He pictures something else: a religion that has replaced the living Christ with self-sufficient performance.

I agree with much of what you have written here, though disagree on several things.

There are two words in the Hebrew that mean perfect “H8535-tām and H8549 – tāmîm

The Hebrew word “tam” was applied to Jacob and Job, while “tamin” was applied to Noah and Jesus. “tamnin” means without blemish while “tam” means complete or whole.

Don't agree with the terms restored and vindicated. If you consider restored meaning brought back to a former condition, that is not a picture of Job. Job was without knowledge. He never had a personal relationship with God prior to the forty second chapter. If Job had known God he never would have charged God with being unrighteous. Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous? Job had said, Job 9:24The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?

Agree that the three friends are not villains any more than Job is. I would call them potsherds. A potsherd is a vessel of clay that has to be broken because it has been laden with sin.

Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? Lev 6:28 But the earthen vessel (potsherd) wherein it is sodden shall be broken: and if it be sodden in a brasen pot, it shall be both scoured, and rinsed in water.

Pro 26:23 Burning lips and a wicked heart are like a potsherd covered with silver dross.

The three friends never had to go through a trial like Job. They were accepted even before Job according to my bible. Job 42:9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.

If your bible doesn’t have missing words in it, it becomes clear the position Elihu holds. Job 33:6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead:--

 

[christophernyc]

Job's best friend said this of Job.-------Job 22:5-9 Is not thy wickedness great? and thine iniquities infinite? For thou hast taken a pledge from thy brother for nought, and stripped the naked of their clothing. Thou hast not given water to the weary to drink, and thou hast withholden bread from the hungry. But as for the mighty man, he had the earth; and the honourable man dwelt in it. Thou hast sent widows away empty, and the arms of the fatherless have been broken.

So who do you believe Job who brags on himself, or his best friend, who knows him better than anyone.

You have no evidence Eliphaz was Job's "best" friend. This is just conjecture.

It's likely Eliphaz was the oldest of the 3 friends. He also had to travel a distance to visit Job, so he was not a part of Job's day-to-day life. He heard about Job's ordeal, whereas Job's wife witnessed it first hand.

Who knows Job better than anyone? -------> Job's wife.

Job's Wife would know him better than anyone else. Job's wife, who also attested that he was maintaining his integrity after he was afflicted with sores all over his body.

Aside from God, Job's wife would know Job better than anyone.

 

[christophernyc]

Job was without knowledge. He never had a personal relationship with God prior to the forty second chapter.

This is a lie. You are propagating lies with many of your claims.

Not sure if you intend to do it, but many of your claims pervert Scripture and contradict what is written.

Have you ever considered you might be wrong, not just on your interpretation, but on the basic facts of the story?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Job's best friend said this of Job.-

As pointed out to you by christophernyc, you assert claims for which you have absolutely no knowledge.

Job 22:5-9 Is not thy wickedness great? and thine iniquities infinite? For thou hast taken a pledge from thy brother for nought, and stripped the naked of their clothing. Thou hast not given water to the weary to drink, and thou hast withholden bread from the hungry. But as for the mighty man, he had the earth; and the honourable man dwelt in it. Thou hast sent widows away empty, and the arms of the fatherless have been broken.

Job responded to these baseless claims of Eliphaz in the verses we have been discussing in Job 29.

Just because Eliphaz accused Job does not make the claim of Eliphaz true. Here is what I explained to you back in June concerning the baseless claims of Job's friends:

reneweddaybyday said:​

Job's friends wanted Job to repent of sin he had not committed. If Job had followed through on what they wanted, he would have been lying about himself ... which would be a lie and that would be sin.​

​

Eliphaz implied sin on the part of Job (Job 4:7-8) was the reason Job was undergoing his distress;​

​

then accused Job of turning from God (Job 15:13) when Job did not agree with Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar in their claims that he had sinned;​

​

then falsely accused Job of great wickedness (Job 22:5) ... claiming Job had behaved poorly toward folks in need.​

​

​

Bildad claimed Job's children were killed because of their sin (Job 8:4) ... so nice to discuss when a "friend" is covered from head to toe with sore boils ... then Bildad accused Job of being a hypocrite who forgot God (Job 8:13);​

​

then claimed that Job dwelt with the wicked and he did not know God (Job 18:21).​

​

​

Zophar accused Job of lying and mocking in an effort to not hear his friends tell "truth" to Job (Job 11:3);​

​

then lumped Job in with the hypocrite and the wicked (Job 20:5).​

​

​

Nowhere did Job claim to be perfectly sinless ... Job's claim was that in the current circumstance, there was no sin on Job's part for which he needed to repent, or if Job had sinned, he asked God to reveal that to him so he could repent.​

​

​

According to Deuteronomy 19:15, at least 2 witnesses are needed in order to establish whether someone had sinned:​

​

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.​

​

Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu never corroborated the accusation of the other ... therefore, no sin on the part of Job has ever been established, notwithstanding your claim to the contrary.​

So who do you believe Job who brags on himself, or his best friend, who knows him better than anyone.

Why would I believe Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu when I have the Word of God to believe ...

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

You hold the word of man above the Word of God ... smh ...

.

 

[tttallison]

This is a lie. You are propagating lies with many of your claims.

Not sure if you intend to do it, but many of your claims pervert Scripture and contradict what is written.

Have you ever considered you might be wrong, not just on your interpretation, but on the basic facts of the story?

Which is a lie, that Job was without knowledge, or that Job did not have a personal knowledge of God?

 

[ZNP]

Job's Three Friends and the Company Left Behind​

Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar spend most of the book of Job getting rebuked. God tells them plainly in Job 42:7 that they have not spoken of Him what is right. And yet — they are restored. Not because their arguments were correct, but because Job prays for them.

These three men represent something real: genuine believers who hold correct foundational doctrine — they know God is just, they know sin has consequences, they know suffering has meaning — but who lack the finished, Galatians 2:20 revelation of Christ crucified in them. They require someone else's intercession because they haven't yet reached what that someone else has reached.

1 Corinthians 15:23 tells us the resurrection of the dead in Christ happens "every man in his own order" — the Greek word is tagmati, a military term for ranks or companies. Not one undifferentiated sweep, but an ordered sequence. Job, restored and interceding, pictures those Hebrews 12:23 calls "the spirits of just men made perfect." His three friends picture a later order — those described as "afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

This is not a teaching that some believers are second-class. It's a teaching that spiritual maturity is real, that Scripture distinguishes between foundation and completion, and that the distinction has consequences for how the church age ends. Revelation 3:14-18 addresses a church — Laodicea — in exactly this condition: "rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing," yet simultaneously "wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked." Christ doesn't reject them. He counsels them to buy gold tried in the fire, white raiment, and eyesalve — remedies for a present deficiency, not descriptions of a finished condition.

Job's friends are not written off. They are written into the story as a picture of exactly this population: genuine believers who will need to be carried through, not lifted out — a picture worth understanding before we go further into who is raptured and who remains.

 

[tttallison]

As pointed out to you by christophernyc, you assert claims for which you have absolutely no knowledge.







Job responded to these baseless claims of Eliphaz in the verses we have been discussing in Job 29.

Just because Eliphaz accused Job does not make the claim of Eliphaz true. Here is what I explained to you back in June concerning the baseless claims of Job's friends:

reneweddaybyday said:​

Job's friends wanted Job to repent of sin he had not committed. If Job had followed through on what they wanted, he would have been lying about himself ... which would be a lie and that would be sin.​

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Eliphaz implied sin on the part of Job (Job 4:7-8) was the reason Job was undergoing his distress;​

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then accused Job of turning from God (Job 15:13) when Job did not agree with Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar in their claims that he had sinned;​

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then falsely accused Job of great wickedness (Job 22:5) ... claiming Job had behaved poorly toward folks in need.​

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Bildad claimed Job's children were killed because of their sin (Job 8:4) ... so nice to discuss when a "friend" is covered from head to toe with sore boils ... then Bildad accused Job of being a hypocrite who forgot God (Job 8:13);​

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then claimed that Job dwelt with the wicked and he did not know God (Job 18:21).​

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Zophar accused Job of lying and mocking in an effort to not hear his friends tell "truth" to Job (Job 11:3);​

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then lumped Job in with the hypocrite and the wicked (Job 20:5).​

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Nowhere did Job claim to be perfectly sinless ... Job's claim was that in the current circumstance, there was no sin on Job's part for which he needed to repent, or if Job had sinned, he asked God to reveal that to him so he could repent.​

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According to Deuteronomy 19:15, at least 2 witnesses are needed in order to establish whether someone had sinned:​

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Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.​

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Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu never corroborated the accusation of the other ... therefore, no sin on the part of Job has ever been established, notwithstanding your claim to the contrary.​

Why would I believe Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu when I have the Word of God to believe ...

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

You hold the word of man above the Word of God ... smh ...

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You are claiming that I assert claims without knowledge, but my claims are from the book of Job. Compare the number of verses from the book I have used. You have Job 1:1, Job 1:3, and Job 2:3. God said when a righteous man sins he is no longer righteous. After the second test the comments of Job 1:1, Job 1:3, and Job 2:3 are gone.

You have to call Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar, liars in order to maintain Job’s pedestal. Job said, God sent the three as witnesses against him. Why would God send three liars?

You have called Elihu a liar as well. Job had requested Elihu, and Elihu stated that he had come at the bequest of Job and was standing in the place of God.

You then have to make excuses for all the foolish things Job says.

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You then ignore what God says that is negative about Job.

Here is a partial list of the things you ignore in respect to God.​

Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.

Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Job 40:14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.

Job 41:3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?

Job 41:4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?

Job 41:5 Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?

Job 41:6 Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?
Psa 74:14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

Job 41:34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

 

[DavidLamb]

You have called Elihu a liar as well. Job had requested Elihu, and Elihu stated that he had come at the bequest of Job and was standing in the place of God.

I have seen you say before that Elihu was standing in the place of God. Where are we told this? He is mentioned by name in these verses in Job:

Job_32:2 Then the wrath of Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, was aroused against Job; his wrath was aroused because he justified himself rather than God.
Job_32:4 Now because they were years older than he, Elihu had waited to speak to Job.
Job_32:5 When Elihu saw that there was no answer in the mouth of these three men, his wrath was aroused.
Job_32:6 So Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, answered and said: "I am young in years, and you are very old; Therefore I was afraid, And dared not declare my opinion to you.
Job_34:1 Elihu further answered and said:
Job_35:1 Moreover Elihu answered and said:
Job_36:1 Elihu also proceeded and said:

Perhaps Elihu is stated to stand in the place of God in a verse where he is referred to as "he" rather than by name, but I cannot think where. Also, the first verse I quote says that Elihu " justified himself rather than God." That doesn't seem a very godly thing to do.

 

[tttallison]

Job's Three Friends and the Company Left Behind​

Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar spend most of the book of Job getting rebuked. God tells them plainly in Job 42:7 that they have not spoken of Him what is right. And yet — they are restored. Not because their arguments were correct, but because Job prays for them.

Has nothing to do with their arguments. A careful reader will see that it is not what the three friends said, but what they do not say that God is referring to. The right thing Job said was that God knows the hearts and intents of man, and Job said he abhorred himself, and repented in dust and ashes.

The reason God had Job plead for his three friends was because Job had pleaded to God that someone might plead for him. This was the second request of Job. The first request was that God would send a man to be his judge. A man that would not laugh at the trial of the innocent.

Job 16:21 O that one might plead for a man with God, as a man pleadeth for his neighbour!

My bible indicates that God accepted the three friends at the same time Job was accepted. All four of them received salvation at the same time.

Job 42:9 So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the LORD commanded them: the LORD also accepted Job.