Job 33:6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.
In Job 32:6 it is stating that Job justified himself rather than God, and Elihu's wrath is upon Job for doing this.
The book of Job
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Job 33:6 Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.
In Job 32:6 it is stating that Job justified himself rather than God, and Elihu's wrath is upon Job for doing this.
But that is Elihu speaking. We have nothing to say that God had appointed Elihu to stand in His place/
Job 32:6 says:
Job 32:6 NKJV So Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, answered and said: "I am young in years, and you are very old; Therefore I was afraid, And dared not declare my opinion to you.
Where does that verse state that Job justified himself rather than God? I think you might have meant Job 32:2, which together with verse 1 says:
Job 32:1 So these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.
Job 32:2 Then the wrath of Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram, was aroused against Job; his wrath was aroused because he justified himself rather than God.
That could refer to Elihu's opinion that Job was trying to justify himself rather than God. Judging by what God says of Job, it cannot mean that Job actually did try to justify himself in place of God.
God devoted 6 chapters to Elihu. Do you believe God is the author of confusion?
you claimed Eliphaz was Job's "best friend" without a single shred of proof.
I'll take 3 verses from God (Who knew Job inside and out) over a few men who thought they knew what they were talking about when they didn't.
You hold to men's opinions and miss the whole point of what God wants you to know.
What sin had Job committed before satan smote Job with sore boils?
no they're not. In fact, God said that Job's friends had not "spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath" (Job 42:7).
What I have said about all of them is that they all (Job included) spoke some truth and they all (Job included) spoke some error.
what Elihu claims about himself is nothing but grandiose uttering.
Where does God say that Elihu "was standing in the place of God"?
Explaining to you my understanding of Job's statements is not making excuses for him.
Rather than claiming I "make excuses", how about you provide meaningful rebuttal to what has been explained to you.
Ignoring what has been explained ... or claiming I "make excuses" ... is not a rebuttal. Ignoring and making false claims is nothing but avoidance of the issue.
I have not ignored any of the verses.
I have provided my understanding of each verse you have submitted in this thread ... and you keep submitting the same verses over and over with no meaningful rebuttal to the information that has been provided to you.
You disagree but your only claim is that I "ignore" or "make excuses".
That you do not agree does not equal my having ignored anything or made excuses.
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you do know that chapters were added by men, yes?
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
and fyi ... the verse relates to orderly conduct in a church gathering ... the verse does not relate to Elihu's utterings.
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To say Job was "without knowledge" is a gross overstatement. That he was without a full knowledge regarding his suffering in this story is obviously true. That he spoke without having this knowledge about his ordeal is also true. But to make a blanket statement that Job is "without knowledge" all together is patently false.
But the more blatant lie in your claim is that Job did not have a personal knowledge of God. Not exactly sure why you would make this incoherent accusation, but this may be the most ridiculous claim of them all.
Asserting Job had no personal knowledge of God prior to chapter 42 is an outright lie. It is not true.
Chapter 28 is attributed to Job and is just one of many examples of Job demonstrating his knowledge of God. At the end of chapter 28 Job provides the very definition of wisdom -- God's wisdom. This definition is also provided in a couple of other verses in Scripture, too.
Job 28:28
And unto man He [God] said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
It seems apparent that Job comes to a fuller knowledge of God at the end of the story. There certainly seems to be a deeper understanding of God on Job's part, as Job himself admits in Job 42:5. Prior to his ordeal, Job heard God, but at the end of his ordeal, Job sees God. That's a pretty remarkable privilege Job was given.
So I have to ask again, have you ever considered that your assumptions and assertions regarding your interpretation, as well as the basic facts of the story, might be wrong? Or have you only ever believed that your independent interpretation and assumptions about the facts have always only ever been right?
True but their is circumstantial evidence. Eliphaz was the first to speak. Eliphaz's name is always first. Eliphaz is an Edomite. God mentions only Eliphaz's name.
Are you stating that God is the author of confusion in other circumstances?
Oh? So how do you explain your statement Elihu spoke for six "chapters"? Your words.
How does that answer what I said? Where does God appoint Elihu to stand in His (God's) place?
There weren't any chapters or verses in the Bible as originally give. Chapter numbers and verse numbers were not added (as an aid to identifying places in the Bible) until hundreds of years later.
Haha...have you ever noticed the great irony in your love of Elihu?
You unrighteously tear Job down, all the while fawning over and praising the false prophet Elihu, an accuser of the brethren. Nowhere, nowhere is there any explicit affirmation of Elihu in this book. Nowhere. And yet, we have explicit affirmation of Job by God both at the beginning and the end of the story. The narrator also affirms and attests to Job's character, all of which you clearly reject.
What is so funny is that when Job then attests to his character, too, you viciously accuse him of "pride". Yet what was said of Job's character is abundantly confirmed. It's true. How are you missing this?
But there is no explicit affirmation of Elihu except from Elihu himself. Only Elihu affirms Elihu, the most pompous, arrogant, and proud one of them all, claiming to be "perfect in knowledge". Ha. Yet you seem to have been smitten by him and heap nothing praise and glory on him, elevating him to some god-like status. Sadly, it appears you have been deceived by Elihu. He is the foil of the story.
If you are looking for the proud character in this story, look no further than Elihu.
And Job's words were not without wisdom, as you and your buddy Elihu claim. Job provides us with the very definition of wisdom, not only in his words in chapter 28, but also in his actions by trusting in God, remaining faithful under the circumstances, and enduring until the end.
Job is also defined by God as "My servant" and we see Job serving God's purpose through his ordeal based on what we read in chapters 1 & 2.
If you are confused by Elihu's words that "sound" right, I can understand. But please remember, satan quoted Scripture to Jesus when He was being tempted in the wilderness. So? It wasn't *what* he said that was the problem, it was *why* he was saying it. Same applies to the degenerate Elihu.
Again, have you ever questioned your independent interpretation and thought you may be wrong? Or have you only ever thought you were right about it all? Just curious. Can you share your process?
You have avoided the verse where God said Job was without knowledge.
Elihu and God
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Elihu said, “Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.” Job 34:35
Elihu said, “Therefore doth Job open his mouth in vain: he multiplieth words without knowledge.” Job 35:16
The Lord said, “Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?” Job 38:2
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Elihu said, “If thou canst answer me, set they words in order before me, stand up.” Job 33:5
The Lord said, “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” Job 38:3
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Elihu said, “Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God. Dost thou know when God disposed them, and caused the light of his cloud to shine? Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge? Job 37:14-16
The Lord said, “Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? Canst thou set the dominion therof in the earth? Canst thou lift up they voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?” Job 38:33-34
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Elihu said, “Shall even he that hateth right govern? And wilt thou condemn him that is most just?” Job 34-17
The Lord said, “Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? He that reproveth God, let him answer it.” Job 40:2
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Elihu said, “Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.” Job 32:2
Elihu said, “Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, my righteousness is more than God’s?” Job 35:2
The Lord said, “Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? Wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?” Job 40:8
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In every case Elihu said it first and the Lord repeated.
which has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
so? Eliphaz was a Temanite ... Bildad was a Shuhite ... Zophar was a Naamathite ... Elihu was a Buzite.
What does any of that have to do with your unsubstantiated claim that Eliphaz was Job's "best friend"?
more deflection.
bringing extraneous information into the discussion is nothing but a red herring on your part. Rather than respond to the points brought up by various posters in this thread, you deflect by mentioning matters not at issue in the discussion.
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reneweddaybyday said:
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you do know that chapters were added by men, yes?
.you read a Bible with no chapters and verses delineated?
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