Was Judas Iscariot saved, or was he not?

[Godsgood]

Where in the Bible are we told that God reveals to His chosen ones who are "sheep" and who are "goats?" You say that if I don't know this, then God has not revealed the truth of His word to me, but where in His word does He tell us that? I am reminded of an account of someone who asked the 19th century Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon why he didn't preach only to God's chosen ones, the sheep, in other words. Spurgeon replied something like this (I don't know his exact words): "Madam, if you go and lift everybody's coat tails, and I see those that are chosen are marked on their shirts, I will do as you suggest. If not, I will continue to preach the gospel to all." Spurgeon didn't claim to know who were sheep and who were goats. Yet he certainly knew God's word.

This is one of the Lord's revelations to His elect, showing them who the goats are: those who have eyes but do not see, and ears but do not hear.
MATTHEW 13:10-16
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

In this passage, the Lord also reveals who the goats are.
MATTHEW 16:6
6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Do you know why they are called goats, even though they listen to and preach the Word of God?

 

[Godsgood]

Generally, I agree. This person claims that he receives "revelations" from an external source, and those "revelations" include heresy and personal attacks on members of this forum. While that can indeed be human ego, pride, and arrogance, the influence of one or more unclean spirits is also well within the plausible options.

Long ago, the Lord Jesus declared that His words will never pass away (Matthew 24:35).
Whenever the Lord proclaims the truth, those Jews who did not know the one true God responded in much the same way you are responding now.
JOHN 10:20
20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

 

[DavidLamb]

This is one of the Lord's revelations to His elect, showing them who the goats are: those who have eyes but do not see, and ears but do not hear.
MATTHEW 13:10-16
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

In this passage, the Lord also reveals who the goats are.
MATTHEW 16:6
6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Do you know why they are called goats, even though they listen to and preach the Word of God?

Thank you for replying. However, the disciples knew who the Pharisees and Sadducees were. They didn't require (and Jesus didn't provide) the picture-language of sheep and goats to know who they were. Of course some Pharisees became Christians, like Saul/Paul and Nicodemus. You quoted Matthew 13:10-16, but that has nothing to do with revealing to the disciples who is a genuine believer and who isn't. Jesus is answering the question, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" They didn't ask, "How can we tell who is truly following You?"

Then you quote Matthew 16:6, saying that it reveals who the sheep and goats are. Neither that verse, nor the surrounding verses, even mention sheep and goats. The only 2 verses where Jesus uses the picture of sheep and goats are these:

Mat 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

Nothing about the disciples, or Christians today, recognising who are sheep and who are goats. The previous verse tells us when this happens:

Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

So He, the Good Shepherd, will divide the sheep from the goats. We are never told to do so.

 

[GWH]

Matt. 26:24 vs. 27:3-5: the jury is still out.

Con vs. Pro: flip a coin.
(OP answered :^)

 

[DavidLamb]

Long ago, the Lord Jesus declared that His words will never pass away (Matthew 24:35).
Whenever the Lord proclaims the truth, those Jews who did not know the one true God responded in much the same way you are responding now.
JOHN 10:20
20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

But Dino246 has never said anything remotely like: "He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?" about the Lord Jesus Christ. So you saying to Dino that the Jews responded in "much the same way as you (Dino) are responding now" seems a totally false accusation to me. Can you quote the post where you claim he has said that Jesus has a devil ands is mad? If you can't why post such a baseless accusation?

 

[Dino246]

Long ago, the Lord Jesus declared that His words will never pass away (Matthew 24:35).
Whenever the Lord proclaims the truth, those Jews who did not know the one true God responded in much the same way you are responding now.
JOHN 10:20
20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

Yes, and?

I am neither a Pharisee nor a Sadducee, and you certainly ain't Jesus.

 

[Godsgood]

Thank you for replying. However, the disciples knew who the Pharisees and Sadducees were. They didn't require (and Jesus didn't provide) the picture-language of sheep and goats to know who they were. Of course some Pharisees became Christians, like Saul/Paul and Nicodemus. You quoted Matthew 13:10-16, but that has nothing to do with revealing to the disciples who is a genuine believer and who isn't. Jesus is answering the question, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" They didn't ask, "How can we tell who is truly following You?"

Then you quote Matthew 16:6, saying that it reveals who the sheep and goats are. Neither that verse, nor the surrounding verses, even mention sheep and goats. The only 2 verses where Jesus uses the picture of sheep and goats are these:

Mat 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

Nothing about the disciples, or Christians today, recognising who are sheep and who are goats. The previous verse tells us when this happens:

Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

So He, the Good Shepherd, will divide the sheep from the goats. We are never told to do so.

Those whom the Lord Jesus has chosen share the truth found in the Word of God so that the Lord may find His lost sheep.
But when there are no lost sheep among those who are listening, this is the instruction He has given them:
LUKE 9:5
5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

 

[Dino246]

Those whom the Lord Jesus has chosen share the truth found in the Word of God so that the Lord may find His lost sheep.
But when there are no lost sheep among those who are listening, this is the instruction He has given them:
LUKE 9:5
5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

So, given your perspective, you should do what the verse says, shake off your virtual feet, and leave this forum.

 

[Godsgood]

So, given your perspective, you should do what the verse says, shake off your virtual feet, and leave this forum.

As I have already said, God knows. If there were no lost sheep visiting this Bible discussion forum, God Himself would create the circumstances so that the truth would no longer be shared here.
But if God knows that one of His lost sheep is visiting this forum, the truth found in His words will continue to appear here.

And because the Lord instructed His chosen ones in Luke 9:5 to leave and shake the dust off their feet so that they would not be influenced any further, that is what I am doing with you. I am shaking you off as the dust from my feet so that I can continue walking and searching for God’s lost sheep.

 

[Bible_Locket]

As I have already said, God knows. If there were no lost sheep visiting this Bible discussion forum, God Himself would create the circumstances so that the truth would no longer be shared here.
But if God knows that one of His lost sheep is visiting this forum, the truth found in His words will continue to appear here.

And because the Lord instructed His chosen ones in Luke 9:5 to leave and shake the dust off their feet so that they would not be influenced any further, that is what I am doing with you. I am shaking you off as the dust from my feet so that I can continue walking and searching for God’s lost sheep.

Don't be discouraged from your path by bullies.
Be encouraged when you are able to discern them. And move forward.

God Bless.

 

[Dino246]

Don't be discouraged from your path by bullies.
Be encouraged when you are able to discern them. And move forward.

God Bless.

So... in your view, those who call out a false teacher for his many errors are "bullies"? You might want to rethink that.

 

[Dino246]

And because the Lord instructed His chosen ones in Luke 9:5 to leave and shake the dust off their feet so that they would not be influenced any further,

Once again, you misrepresent what the word of God says.

that is what I am doing with you. I am shaking you off as the dust from my feet so that I can continue walking and searching for God’s lost sheep.

I'll grant you are optimistic. However, as I have stated several times, I will continue to refute your errors as long as you keep posting them here, and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[maxwel]

So, given your perspective, you should do what the verse says, shake off your virtual feet, and leave this forum.

Dino, I shake my dust at you.
Shake, shake, shake.
Do you think three is enough?
I'm not really sure how this works.
Please let me know if it's supposed to be more than three, or which foot, or both feet, or both feet at once... I'm really sorry but i just get so confused by all of this.
Please help me out.
Ty.

 

[Cameron143]

Dino, I shake my dust at you.
Shake, shake, shake.
Do you think three is enough?
I'm not really sure how this works.
Please let me know if it's supposed to be more than three, or which foot, or both feet, or both feet at once... I'm really sorry but i just get so confused by all of this.
Please help me out.
Ty.

You seem to have confused foot shaking with booty shaking. I refer you to the sage Casey of KC and the Sunshine Band for clarity.

 

[Dino246]

Dino, I shake my dust at you.
Shake, shake, shake.
Do you think three is enough?
I'm not really sure how this works.
Please let me know if it's supposed to be more than three, or which foot, or both feet, or both feet at once... I'm really sorry but i just get so confused by all of this.
Please help me out.
Ty.

You gave me a good laugh!

I must, however, refer you to 2 Kings 13:14-19. Three times is just so... inadequate.

 

[Godsgood]

But Dino246 has never said anything remotely like: "He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?" about the Lord Jesus Christ. So you saying to Dino that the Jews responded in "much the same way as you (Dino) are responding now" seems a totally false accusation to me. Can you quote the post where you claim he has said that Jesus has a devil ands is mad? If you can't why post such a baseless accusation?

The truth is, as the Lord has declared, when it comes to salvation, each of us must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Perhaps it is better to first examine yourself and make sure that you are walking in the right path. What good is it to be deeply concerned about the salvation of others if, in the process, you neglect your own and put your own spiritual condition in danger?
PHILIPPIANS 2:12
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Before we worry about where others are going, we must first make sure that we ourselves are standing firm in the faith. For what does it profit a person to care for the souls of others while losing sight of his own?

Look at what happened to Lot’s wife. The Lord was already delivering them, yet at that very moment, she suddenly looked back and remembered what she had left behind. Her heart was still attached to the things she was being called to leave. In the end, that moment of looking back cost her everything.
GENESIS 19:26
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

However, I am not stopping you from doing that. You are free to do whatever you want. I have already shared with you what the possible consequences may be. That is enough for me.

 

[Godsgood]

You gave me a good laugh!

I must, however, refer you to 2 Kings 13:14-19. Three times is just so... inadequate.

PSALMS 22:7-8
7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

 

[DavidLamb]

The truth is, as the Lord has declared, when it comes to salvation, each of us must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Perhaps it is better to first examine yourself and make sure that you are walking in the right path. What good is it to be deeply concerned about the salvation of others if, in the process, you neglect your own and put your own spiritual condition in danger?
PHILIPPIANS 2:12
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Before we worry about where others are going, we must first make sure that we ourselves are standing firm in the faith. For what does it profit a person to care for the souls of others while losing sight of his own?

Look at what happened to Lot’s wife. The Lord was already delivering them, yet at that very moment, she suddenly looked back and remembered what she had left behind. Her heart was still attached to the things she was being called to leave. In the end, that moment of looking back cost her everything.
GENESIS 19:26
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

However, I am not stopping you from doing that. You are free to do whatever you want. I have already shared with you what the possible consequences may be. That is enough for me.

But I wasn't expressing concern over the salvation of others. I was asking you to substantiate your claim that Dino246 had ever said in any of his post that Jesus has a devil and is mad.

 

[Godsgood]

Once again, you misrepresent what the word of God says.


I'll grant you are optimistic. However, as I have stated several times, I will continue to refute your errors as long as you keep posting them here, and there is nothing you can do about it.

However, as I have stated several times, I will continue to refute your errors as long as you keep posting them here, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Just as I said, I expected you to do that because the Lord has given you permission to do so. And just like Cain, He is even giving you protection. Therefore, I will not oppose God’s command.
GENESIS 4:15
15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

For even the devil has been given permission by the Lord to afflict those whom God has chosen, those who know the one true God.
LUKE 22:31
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

So it is no surprise that you truly will not stop wandering, just like him.
1 PEDRO 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Indeed, God speaks the truth, as stated in John 14:6.

 

[Godsgood]

But I wasn't expressing concern over the salvation of others. I was asking you to substantiate your claim that Dino246 had ever said in any of his post that Jesus has a devil and is mad.

God is the One who knows what is in your heart.