Why aren't the words " believe, believer, and believing " in italics in the English translation of scripture?

[ResidentAlien]

So your probably refusing to acknowledge the history of the English language coming from the Greek language.

I smell a true BELIEVER!
Or I guess an untrue believer would be more accurate.

Have you ever picked up a dictionary and checked out the etymology of the words in it? Are you saying the dictionary is lying when it says a word derives from some source other than Greek?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

So your probably refusing to acknowledge the history of the English language coming from the Greek language.

I smell a true BELIEVER!
Or I guess an untrue believer would be more accurate.

So he's not saved because he disagrees with you? Does God know this???

 

[BartholomewB]

So your probably refusing to acknowledge the history of the English language coming from the Greek language.

I smell a true BELIEVER!
Or I guess an untrue believer would be more accurate.

Quite a number of English words have a Greek origin, such as telescope, theology, canister, monopoly... Is that what you mean by "the history of the English language coming from the Greek language"? Or are you saying there is a greater degree of dependency than that? Kindly explain.

 

[Watchman22]

Quite a number of English words have a Greek origin, such as telescope, theology, canister, monopoly... Is that what you mean by "the history of the English language coming from the Greek language"? Or are you saying there is a greater degree of dependency than that? Kindly explain.

Ya, exactly!

Many English words are derived from the Greek language.
Except for a corresponding verb for the noun Faith.

 

[lrs68]

Pharmakea is witchcraft in Greek.

In English it's where we get Pharmacy or the place where Mathematics + Biology combines in essence potions to create medicine.

 

[Watchman22]

Pharmakea is witchcraft in Greek.

In English it's where we get Pharmacy or the place where Mathematics + Biology combines in essence potions to create medicine.

Ya, that really got my attention a couple of years ago when I ran across that.

It's actually Pharmakeia, but ya magic and witchcraft. Makes you wonder how far off track we are whenever we go fill a script.

Good post.

 

[Watchman22]

Have you ever picked up a dictionary and checked out the etymology of the words in it? Are you saying the dictionary is lying when it says a word derives from some source other than Greek?

For the last 5 years, I spend 4 to 6 hours a day in my tischendorf's NT. Comparing the translation through the interlinear, making conclusions with the Strongs and vines, looking at every word. In 2 more years at that pace I will have covered the entire NT.

I suggest you pray for a greater desire to learn, or at least offer some iron instead of wood.

Knowing that won't happen, I'll put you in the cornfield with Dino and friends.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Knowing that won't happen, I'll put you in the cornfield with Dino and friends.

Fair enough. Have a blessed day.

 

[PaulThomson]

In most other cases, any words added by the translators are in italics.
1) the words believe, believer, and believing are not in the Greek language.
In the Greek, you are only faithing towards something pisteuo, or faithing away from something Apisteuo. No neutral of middle ground like just believing.

2) The English language has no verb form of the Word" faith" like the Greek does. So those words believe, believer, and believing, we're added by the translators for the corresponding verb pisteuo, and should be in italics.

Why aren't they?

Researched using duckduckgo AI.

Greek πίστις / πιστεύω (pistis / pisteuō) (“faith / believe”) is etymologically related to πείθω (peithō) (“to persuade / to be persuaded”).

The usual scholarly explanation is that peithō is the root underlying the semantic family: peithō → pistis → pisteuō. In other words, pisteuō (“believe”) develops from the “persuade/be convinced” family represented by peithō, and the meaning difference is that pisteuō focuses on the resulting “trust/confidence” that persuasion produces. cf. Abarim Publications

A lot of Greek verbs with -εύω (-eúō / -eu-) are derived verbs meaning something like:

• to do / to act as / to make/do something related to the base noun/adjective
• sometimes to practice or to behave in a certain way (especially in -εύω verbs derived from nouns forroles) … such as pistis

Example pattern (conceptually): a noun/adjective base → -ευω verb meaning “to have that role / to do that thing”.

So in these, -ευ- generally affects lexical meaning by turning the base into an “agentive/act” verb.

Hence, I am suggesting that pisteuo would be a morphological derivative from peitho I persuade >>> peitheuo >>> pisteuo meaning I behave as one persuaded.

 

[DavidLamb]

So your probably refusing to acknowledge the history of the English language coming from the Greek language.

I smell a true BELIEVER!
Or I guess an untrue believer would be more accurate.

English words come from many languages. Some, like anthropological, cathedral, telescope and bacteria are indeed based on Greek words. Others, like bus, acrid, salary, civil, and accompany come from Latin (about 60%, I understand, compared to 5 or 6% from Greek). Some come from Hindi or Urdu, like avatar, bungalow, juggernaut, shampoo and typhoon. Many come from Norman French, from the time of the Norman invasion in 1066, including bailiff, curfew, butcher, parliament and treason. English words come from many other languages too, even minority languages such as Icelandic (geyser, saga, berserk).

 

[Dino246]

For the last 5 years, I spend 4 to 6 hours a day in my tischendorf's NT. Comparing the translation through the interlinear, making conclusions with the Strongs and vines, looking at every word. In 2 more years at that pace I will have covered the entire NT.

I suggest you pray for a greater desire to learn, or at least offer some iron instead of wood.

Knowing that won't happen, I'll put you in the cornfield with Dino and friends.

You embody 1 Corinthians 8:1: "knowledge puffs up".

 

[Watchman22]

Researched using duckduckgo AI.

Greek πίστις / πιστεύω (pistis / pisteuō) (“faith / believe”) is etymologically related to πείθω (peithō) (“to persuade / to be persuaded”).

The usual scholarly explanation is that peithō is the root underlying the semantic family: peithō → pistis → pisteuō. In other words, pisteuō (“believe”) develops from the “persuade/be convinced” family represented by peithō, and the meaning difference is that pisteuō focuses on the resulting “trust/confidence” that persuasion produces. cf. Abarim Publications

A lot of Greek verbs with -εύω (-eúō / -eu-) are derived verbs meaning something like:

• to do / to act as / to make/do something related to the base noun/adjective
• sometimes to practice or to behave in a certain way (especially in -εύω verbs derived from nouns forroles) … such as pistis

Example pattern (conceptually): a noun/adjective base → -ευω verb meaning “to have that role / to do that thing”.

So in these, -ευ- generally affects lexical meaning by turning the base into an “agentive/act” verb.

Hence, I am suggesting that pisteuo would be a morphological derivative from peitho I persuade >>> peitheuo >>> pisteuo meaning I behave as one persuaded.

Hey Paul, sorry for the late reply.

I appreciate the alternative perspective, but when the AI used the word believe as it's datum point, i knew the information coded into it was wrong.

I find it ironic that I'm spending most of my time trying to " persuade " others not to accept the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.

I do that with as much theological evidence as possible, but remember I also have the experience of what happens when someone faithes correctly ( a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender) , and i can't use that to persuade others with. So my confident stance has more structure than I can show you and the others.

I'm glad your giving it a look . It could be the best decision you'll ever make.

 

[Watchman22]

English words come from many languages. Some, like anthropological, cathedral, telescope and bacteria are indeed based on Greek words. Others, like bus, acrid, salary, civil, and accompany come from Latin (about 60%, I understand, compared to 5 or 6% from Greek). Some come from Hindi or Urdu, like avatar, bungalow, juggernaut, shampoo and typhoon. Many come from Norman French, from the time of the Norman invasion in 1066, including bailiff, curfew, butcher, parliament and treason. English words come from many other languages too, even minority languages such as Icelandic (geyser, saga, berserk).

I got 10 to 15% from Greek.
But the most important word in our scriptures ( pisteuo ) is what's important.
And that most important word could not be translated into the English language. That should be worth a hard look to any of the called.

 

[PaulThomson]

Hey Paul, sorry for the late reply.

I appreciate the alternative perspective, but when the AI used the word believe as it's datum point, i knew the information coded into it was wrong.

I find it ironic that I'm spending most of my time trying to " persuade " others not to accept the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.

I do that with as much theological evidence as possible, but remember I also have the experience of what happens when someone faithes correctly ( a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender) , and i can't use that to persuade others with. So my confident stance has more structure than I can show you and the others.

I'm glad your giving it a look . It could be the best decision you'll ever make.

What do you understand peithO to mean, @Watchman22 ? To persuade? or something else?

 

[Watchman22]

What do you understand peithO to mean, @Watchman22 ? To persuade? or something else?

I understand it to mean exactly what it's defined to mean.

Peitho 3982 in the Strongs used 23 times, and is defined as " to assent to evidence. "

Pistis 4102 used 245 times, defined as "conviction to a belief. Reliance upon Jesus. "

Pisteuo 4100 used 248 times is defined as " pisteuo means not just to believe but place confidence in, to trust, reliance upon not mere credence, commitment unto, be committed unto."
Vines definition: " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "

We could go back to the real root if you want. It's " Emunah " in the Hebrew.

Please take a minute and go on YouTube to a channel called " codes in the Bible " YouTube. There is a teaching called " faith is not belief" one of the most popular teachings on that channel. It will give you an insight on the real intent of faith. The best teaching I've ever heard.

 

[Watchman22]

What do you understand peithO to mean, @Watchman22 ? To persuade? or something else?

I would assume your understanding of peitho being " to assent to evidence " would be a reaction to Gods word.

But I would look at it as " an assent to evidence being the call of the Father. A reaction to the call of the Father.

 

[Dino246]

I got 10 to 15% from Greek.
But the most important word in our scriptures ( pisteuo ) is what's important.
And that most important word could not be translated into the English language. That should be worth a hard look to any of the called.

The word "pisteuo" is translated into English, with the word "believe" (and derivatives).

You just don't like it because "believe" has come to mean something less than what it meant in 1611, or 1536, or whenever it was first employed.

 

[PaulThomson]

I understand it to mean exactly what it's defined to mean.

Peitho 3982 in the Strongs used 23 times, and is defined as " to assent to evidence. "

Pistis 4102 used 245 times, defined as "conviction to a belief. Reliance upon Jesus. "

Pisteuo 4100 used 248 times is defined as " pisteuo means not just to believe but place confidence in, to trust, reliance upon not mere credence, commitment unto, be committed unto."
Vines definition: " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "

We could go back to the real root if you want. It's " Emunah " in the Hebrew.

Please take a minute and go on YouTube to a channel called " codes in the Bible " YouTube. There is a teaching called " faith is not belief" one of the most popular teachings on that channel. It will give you an insight on the real intent of faith. The best teaching I've ever heard.

No peithO does not mean “to assent to evidence”. PeithO means I persuade [someone]. Its passive and reflexive form, peisthomai, mean I am persuaded (passive), or I persuade myself (middle). Which is why I suggested that since the infix -eu- in pisteuO invests the nuance of ‘to have the role of, or to do that thing”.

PeithO means I persuade >>> leads to peismonE persuasion i.e. the attempt to convince someone >>> leads to pistis meaning the final effect of persuasion i.e. belief, mental assent >>> leads to pisteuO, i.e.I am acting upon my belief.

Just my perspective. I could be wrong. But we might agree more than you thought.

 

[Mem]

How long before the general population adopts the verb "faithing" into the common vocabulary.

 

[Watchman22]

No peithO does not mean “to assent to evidence”. PeithO means I persuade [someone]. Its passive and reflexive form, peisthomai, mean I am persuaded (passive), or I persuade myself (middle). Which is why I suggested that since the infix -eu- in pisteuO invests the nuance of ‘to have the role of, or to do that thing”.

PeithO means I persuade >>> leads to peismonE persuasion i.e. the attempt to convince someone >>> leads to pistis meaning the final effect of persuasion i.e. belief, mental assent >>> leads to pisteuO, i.e.I am acting upon my belief.

Just my perspective. I could be wrong. But we might agree more than you thought.

I gave you the exact definition of peitho out of the Strongs. So your disagreement is with Him.