Is Salvation an event or a process?

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That verse 1 john 2:27 is talking about " them that seduce you."

Eph.4: 11-12 tells us there are only two options. Either a gifted teacher perfecting saints, or saints being perfected by those gifted teachers.

I don't want to get off track, thank you for being honest about it.
John is not saying, “Christians don’t need teachers.”
He is saying, “You don’t need seducers, false teachers, or Gnostic deceivers to teach you.”
The verse is aimed at them that seduce you — the antichrist‑spirit teachers (v. 26). The “anointing” teaches in the sense that it guards, discerns, and protects the believer from deception. It is not a statement eliminating the need for gifted teachers. It is a statement eliminating the influence of false teachers.
So your interpretation is correct.
 
OK

So here i am, godless without any connection to Him other than being one of His creatures.
The Father decides to call me out . The Holy Spirit is covertly doing the leg work, in the call of the Father. But the Holy spirits engagement with me is external only.

Do you agree?
Before regeneration, the Spirit’s work is real, effective, necessary, but external — not indwelling. Your description matches the biblical pattern perfectly.
 
Before regeneration, the Spirit’s work is real, effective, necessary, but external — not indwelling. Your description matches the biblical pattern perfectly.

OK

1) We're created in a specific condition.
2) the Father calls us out, being fulfilled in part by the external work of the Holy spirit.

3) we then respond to the caller by turning from our way, to the direction of the caller in our minds. This is the bases of the act of repentance. The actual repentant act may vary for each individual.

But repentance is turning from our way to the direction of the caller in our minds.

Do you agree with step 3?
 
OK

1) We're created in a specific condition.
2) the Father calls us out, being fulfilled in part by the external work of the Holy spirit.

3) we then respond to the caller by turning from our way, to the direction of the caller in our minds. This is the bases of the act of repentance. The actual repentant act may vary for each individual.

But repentance is turning from our way to the direction of the caller in our minds.

Do you agree with step 3?
Absolutely, Step 3 is the correct articulation of repentance.
 
Absolutely, Step 3 is the correct articulation of repentance.

Now,
4) the called out one takes the first step of faith, "pisteuo" towards the caller. That first step is defined as "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ."

Do you agree with step 4?
 
Now,
4) the called out one takes the first step of faith, "pisteuo" towards the caller. That first step is defined as "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ."

Do you agree with step 4?
This is correct, as long as we define “surrender” in the biblical sense — not the post‑conversion Romans 6 slavery sense.
 
This is correct, as long as we define “surrender” in the biblical sense — not the post‑conversion Romans 6 slavery sense.

Yes, this surrendered life only fulfills pisteuo correctly. It doesn't change the state of being of the called out one. Still not His, no Spirit of Christ yet, Gods word and promises are not mine to claim yet.

We're good?
 
Yes, this surrendered life only fulfills pisteuo correctly. It doesn't change the state of being of the called out one. Still not His, no Spirit of Christ yet, Gods word and promises are not mine to claim yet.

We're good?
yes.
 

Gate 1 or the altar.

A) first act of faithing, pisteuo, the surrendered life happens here.
B) A decision is made here, to make a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Genuine, not a perfect one.
C) Here, the act of pisteuo or faithing is tested and deemed Genuine by God.
D) No "saving faith " yet at the point.
E) prayer and worship not acceptable here yet. Rom. 8:9. Not His yet.
F) Alternative paths are formed here to go over or around the altar. (Believe and receive doctrine. ) to no avail.

I see this part as an altar where the surrendered life is made, tested, and accepted by God, to see if the surrendered life is genuine.
 
Process. The "goal post" that Christians like to think exists is only known by God. In this life, our faith is tested, we are trained, refined and changed. Those who have gone through that process are God's.

I picture life like a school.
1) School is open to everyone, all you have to do is attend (decision to follow God)
2) You are taught and you have tests (trials, tribulations, refinement). Staying in school gives you the promise of graduation.
3) Graduation = Salvation but only God determines when your graduation is.

Once graduated, you cannot be un-graduated, otherwise graduation should have never occurred in the first place.
 
Gate 1 or the altar.

A) first act of faithing, pisteuo, the surrendered life happens here.
B) A decision is made here, to make a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Genuine, not a perfect one.
C) Here, the act of pisteuo or faithing is tested and deemed Genuine by God.
D) No "saving faith " yet at the point.
E) prayer and worship not acceptable here yet. Rom. 8:9. Not His yet.
F) Alternative paths are formed here to go over or around the altar. (Believe and receive doctrine. ) to no avail.

I see this part as an altar where the surrendered life is made, tested, and accepted by God, to see if the surrendered life is genuine.
Scripture does not teach an altar where surrender is tested before saving faith exists.
Your model:
Created condition
Father calls
External Spirit work
Human surrender
Surrender tested
God accepts surrender
THEN saving faith happens

Scripture’s model:
Created condition
Father calls
Spirit regenerates (internal)
Human repentance + faith (pisteuō)
Immediate justification
Indwelling Spirit
Lifelong sanctification
Your model inserts an intermediate altar between regeneration and faith that Scripture does not contain.
 
Scripture does not teach an altar where surrender is tested before saving faith exists.
Your model:
Created condition
Father calls
External Spirit work
Human surrender
Surrender tested
God accepts surrender
THEN saving faith happens

Scripture’s model:
Created condition
Father calls
Spirit regenerates (internal)
Human repentance + faith (pisteuō)
Immediate justification
Indwelling Spirit
Lifelong sanctification
Your model inserts an intermediate altar between regeneration and faith that Scripture does not contain.

Come on omc, im just being descriptive. Of course there's no altar.

Does God test the surrendered life here or not?
 
Scripture does not teach an altar where surrender is tested before saving faith exists.
Your model:
Created condition
Father calls
External Spirit work
Human surrender
Surrender tested
God accepts surrender
THEN saving faith happens

Scripture’s model:
Created condition
Father calls
Spirit regenerates (internal)
Human repentance + faith (pisteuō)
Immediate justification
Indwelling Spirit
Lifelong sanctification
Your model inserts an intermediate altar between regeneration and faith that Scripture does not contain.
Sanctification is also a means for testing.

And you shall remember that the Lord your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you and test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not. - Deuteronomy 8:2
Sanctification is the act of becoming holy. The law is considered holy.
Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. - Romans 7:12
So obedience is part of sanctification and just how God tested the Israelites obedience, God tests ours. So if God is testing something, that does not mean it's up to par yet. Look at all the Revelation letters and how they're accused of not being obedient, holding doctrine of demons and the warning that if they don't repent and turn, they will be removed. That does not mean these churches are saved, far from it... So you cannot have salvation without testing and that includes Sanctification being tested.
 
Scripture does not teach an altar where surrender is tested before saving faith exists.
Your model:
Created condition
Father calls
External Spirit work
Human surrender
Surrender tested
God accepts surrender
THEN saving faith happens

Scripture’s model:
Created condition
Father calls
Spirit regenerates (internal)
Human repentance + faith (pisteuō)
Immediate justification
Indwelling Spirit
Lifelong sanctification
Your model inserts an intermediate altar between regeneration and faith that Scripture does not contain.

Im attempting to highlight every little thing that happens throughout the salvation process.all the things that must happen and happen in the correct order.

There's no gates, no altars, no phases, im using thise terms to make parameters.
 
Scripture does not teach an altar where surrender is tested before saving faith exists.
Your model:
Created condition
Father calls
External Spirit work
Human surrender
Surrender tested
God accepts surrender
THEN saving faith happens

Scripture’s model:
Created condition
Father calls
Spirit regenerates (internal)
Human repentance + faith (pisteuō)
Immediate justification
Indwelling Spirit
Lifelong sanctification
Your model inserts an intermediate altar between regeneration and faith that Scripture does not contain.

But if you look at the types and shadows in the OT, a burnt offering is exactly what's going on at that point.
 
Scripture does not teach an altar where surrender is tested before saving faith exists.
Your model:
Created condition
Father calls
External Spirit work
Human surrender
Surrender tested
God accepts surrender
THEN saving faith happens

Scripture’s model:
Created condition
Father calls
Spirit regenerates (internal)
Human repentance + faith (pisteuō)
Immediate justification
Indwelling Spirit
Lifelong sanctification
Your model inserts an intermediate altar between regeneration and faith that Scripture does not contain.

I just picked it up, you changed your mind? Thats what I was expecting.

I was happy at least for a minute. So the spirit regenerates with giving the Holy spirit before our first act of faith.?

Your going to have to explain that one.
 
Come on omc, im just being descriptive. Of course there's no altar.

Does God test the surrendered life here or not?

No — God does not test the surrendered life before salvation.

And here’s why,

God does not test surrender to decide salvation — He creates the surrender.

Your model assumes:
You surrender.
God inspects the surrender.
God decides whether it’s genuine.
THEN saving faith comes.
Scripture teaches the opposite: “The Lord opened her heart to respond.” Acts 16:14
God does not test the heart. God opens the heart.
The surrender is not evaluated. The surrender is produced.

You’re describing surrender as something that happens before saving faith.
But Scripture says regeneration happens before faith, “Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God.” 1 John 5:1
Born of God, then believes. Not, surrender, tested, accepted, then born of God.
The new birth produces, repentance, surrender, faith, not the reverse.
“The Lord knows those who are His.” 2 Tim 2:19
He does not need to test surrender. He does not need to test faith.
He knows His own because He created their faith.
Scripture, “He who believes has eternal life.” John 6:47
There is no category of:
pre‑saving faith
almost‑saving faith
faith awaiting evaluation
faith awaiting acceptance
Pisteuō is always saving faith.
This is the key distinction. Scripture teaches post‑salvation testing, not pre‑salvation testing.
“The testing of your faith produces endurance.” James 1:3
“Your faith—tested by fire—may result in praise.” 1 Peter 1:7
These tests, refine, strengthen, mature.
They do not determine salvation.
Testing happens after salvation, not before.
The only “test” Scripture speaks of before salvation is conviction.
And conviction is not a test of surrender. It is the Spirit’s work: “He will convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.” John 16:8
Conviction is, awakening, exposing, illuminating.
It is not, evaluating, inspecting, approving or rejecting
Conviction leads to repentance and faith. It does not test repentance and faith.
The moment of faith is the moment of salvation — not the result of passing a test “Having believed, you were sealed.” Ephesians 1:13
Not:
“Having surrendered and passed inspection…”
“Having been evaluated…”
“Having been accepted after testing…”
Belief → sealing
Belief → justification.
Belief → union with Christ.

No testing phase.
I understand what you’re describing:
a moment of surrender
a moment of turning
a moment of yielding
a moment of seriousness
a moment of authenticity
That moment does happen.
But Scripture never says, “God tests that moment to decide whether to give saving faith.”
Instead Scripture says, “It is God who works in you to will and to act.” Philippians 2:13
The surrender is His work, not yours. The faith is His gift, not yours. The acceptance is His decree, not His evaluation.
No — God does not test the surrendered life to decide salvation.
He:
calls
regenerates
opens the heart
grants repentance
produces surrender
gives faith
justifies
seals
indwells
Testing comes after salvation, not before.
Your “altar” is a real human experience — but it is not a stage in the biblical order of salvation.
 
Scripture does not teach an altar where surrender is tested before saving faith exists.
Your model:
Created condition
Father calls
External Spirit work
Human surrender
Surrender tested
God accepts surrender
THEN saving faith happens

Scripture’s model:
Created condition
Father calls
Spirit regenerates (internal)
Human repentance + faith (pisteuō)
Immediate justification
Indwelling Spirit
Lifelong sanctification
Your model inserts an intermediate altar between regeneration and faith that Scripture does not contain.

The Holy spirit is even given before repentance?
 
I just picked it up, you changed your mind? Thats what I was expecting.

I was happy at least for a minute. So the spirit regenerates with giving the Holy spirit before our first act of faith.?

Your going to have to explain that one.
What did i change my mind on exactly?