Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[OMC]

A crisis that threatened a Philippian jailer with death prompted him freely to ask Paul and Silas the most important question in life: “What must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30) This question about God's requirement for salvation (GRFS) is most important, because—as sinful and mortal souls—we need saving from corruption, both moral and physical. We need saving from physical death if we value or enjoy life, and we need saving from immorality or evil-doing if it results in unhappy existence, especially after this lifetime.

The reply of Paul and Silas was this: “IF you [freely choose to] believe in the Lord Jesus, you will be saved.” (Acts 16:31) This is GRFS in a nutshell. IF connotes God’s condition for repentance (cf. the IFs in John 8:7, 14, 16, 19, 24, 31, 36, 39, 42, 46, 51, 54, 55). Jesus Himself expressed GRFS even more succinctly using three, four and five letter words: “Ask… seek… knock…” (Matt. 7:7). This indicates that God enables/gives every sinful soul the ability and opportunity (exercising moral free will/MFW) to repent of sin (Matt. 4:17) and seek salvation (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11), which might be called “seeking grace” (Tit. 2:11, Eph. 2:8). As Heb. 11:6 states: “he [God] rewards those who earnestly seek him” (cf. Isa. 45:19).

Seeking God/Truth is the beginning of saving faith (2Thes. 2:10), and not seeking God or rejecting His salvation in Christ is the essence of evil atheism or faith in I-dolatry (Rom. 3:11, 1:18-23). All humans sin, but every sinner has the opportunity (via MFW) to repent/have saving faith per God's Word: Gen. 3:6, Deut. 30:19, Josh. 24:15, 2Chron. 7:14, Matt. 4:17, 7:7, 23:37, John 3:16, 6:39, Acts 2:38, 16:31, 28:27, Rom. 1:20, 2:4, 11&15, 3:22, 4:23-24, 5:15&19, 10:9-13, 11:32, Gal. 3:8&14, Eph. 2:8-9, Phil. 2:10-11, Col. 1:19-23, 1Tim. 2:3-4, etc.]]]

What was wrong/untrue/trolling about that?!

I would say that the Philippian jailer’s question shows every sinner’s deepest need, and Scripture answers it clearly: salvation comes by turning to the Lord Jesus in repentant faith, because God saves all who truly believe in Him. Scriptural truth with references. Not "trolling" as I know it but i'm old so...

 

[GWH]

I would say that the Philippian jailer’s question shows every sinner’s deepest need, and Scripture answers it clearly: salvation comes by turning to the Lord Jesus in repentant faith, because God saves all who truly believe in Him. Scriptural truth with references. Not "trolling" as I know it but i'm old so...

Maybe trolling as in being a fisher of men for Jesus?

 

[Journey_man]

Galatians 6:6-8
The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. Do not be deceived, God is
not mocked; for whatever a person sows, this he will also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will reap destruction
from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit.

Wrong again, Galatians 6:6-8 does not support your Arminian version of the gospel, which teaches that a saved person can lose their salvation.

Galatians 6 does not say that a believer sows to his own flesh. The text actually says "For the one", it doesn't say "for the believer who sows to his own flesh will reap corruption". You just made that nonsense up, to support your unbiblical version of the gospel.

 

[OMC]

Wrong again, Galatians 6:6-8 does not support your Arminian version of the gospel, which teaches that a saved person can lose their salvation.

Galatians 6 does not say that a believer sows to his own flesh. The text actually says "For the one", it doesn't say "for the believer who sows to his own flesh will reap corruption". You just made that nonsense up, to support your unbiblical version of the gospel

Paul is not describing a saved man losing salvation; he is describing two life-principles and their final harvest. A life characterized by sowing to the flesh ends in corruption; a life characterized by sowing to the Spirit ends in eternal life. That’s exactly the same pattern as Romans 8:13—“if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.”
So:
the Greek says “the one who sows,” and the context shows Paul is warning the believing community;
the passage does not teach loss of salvation, but it does teach that a flesh‑dominated life reaps destruction, and a Spirit‑dominated life reaps eternal life.

 

[Journey_man]

the Bereans were not acting as their own Shepherds; they were obeying the Shepherd by testing every teaching against Scripture (Acts 17:11), because while Christ appoints pastors to feed the flock, He never removes the believer’s duty to discern truth (1 Thess. 5:21), and no doctrine — whether Calvinist, Arminian, or anything else — can override the plain testimony of God’s Word.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 is an exhortation, it's not a command. The hearers were already saved, so they were not going to fall away.

 

[OMC]

1 Thessalonians 5:21 is an exhortation, it's not a command. The hearers were already saved, so they were not going to fall away

Scripture does not treat apostolic exhortations as “optional,” nor does it treat salvation as a state in which warnings become irrelevant. And I reject the idea that “saved people cannot fall away” makes exhortations non‑binding, because the New Testament repeatedly gives imperatives, warnings, and conditions to saved people. I stand firmly on this: 1 Thessalonians 5:21 is an imperative addressed to believers, and the fact that they are saved does not remove the weight of the command nor the reality of the warning
1 Thessalonians 5:21 is an imperative — not a suggestion.
Greek: πάντα δὲ δοκιμάζετε, τὸ καλὸν κατέχετε “Test all things; hold fast to what is good.”
Both verbs are imperatives:
δοκιμάζετε — test, examine
κατέχετε — hold fast, cling to
Imperatives are commands, not mere exhortations.
Paul is not saying: “It would be nice if you tested things.”
He is saying:
“You must test everything.”

This is the same grammatical force as:
“Abstain from every form of evil.”
“Pray without ceasing.”
“Rejoice always.”
All imperatives.
You said: “The hearers were already saved, so they were not going to fall away.”
But Scripture gives commands to saved people constantly:
“Put to death the deeds of the body.” — Rom. 8:13
“Do not be conformed to this world.” — Rom. 12:2
“Flee sexual immorality.” — 1 Cor. 6:18
“Work out your salvation.” — Phil. 2:12
“Take up the whole armor of God.” — Eph. 6:13
“Keep yourselves in the love of God.” — Jude 21
These are not optional because believers are “safe.”
They are commands because believers are saved.
You said: “They were not going to fall away.”
But Paul gives warnings to believers precisely because falling away is a real danger for professing believers, not for the elect.
Examples:
“If you live according to the flesh, you will die.” — Rom. 8:13
“Do not be arrogant, but fear.” — Rom. 11:20
“Take heed lest you fall.” — 1 Cor. 10:12
“Some have made shipwreck of their faith.” — 1 Tim. 1:19
“Beware… lest any of you be hardened.” — Heb. 3:12–13
These warnings are addressed to church members, not outsiders.
Warnings do not imply the elect can fall. Warnings expose the false and preserve the true.
Exhortation vs. command is a false distinction.
In Paul’s letters:
exhortations are imperatives
imperatives are commands
commands are binding
binding instructions are for believers
Paul does not say:“ Since you’re saved, you don’t need to test anything.”
He says: “Test everything.”
The grammar is not optional.
Your concern is pastoral, not grammatical.
You’re saying: “They were saved, so they weren’t going to fall away.”
I agree that the elect cannot fall away. But Paul does not use that truth to remove commands.
He uses commands to preserve the elect and expose the false.
Commands are the means God uses to keep His people.
I acknowledge your claim that 1 Thessalonians 5:21 is “only an exhortation,” but the Greek grammar shows two imperatives — commands — addressed to believers;
I reject the idea that being saved makes commands optional or warnings irrelevant, because the New Testament repeatedly gives imperatives and warnings to saved people as the means God uses to preserve them; and I stand firmly on this: 1 Thessalonians 5:21 is a binding command to believers, not a casual exhortation, and salvation does not remove the need for obedience nor the reality of warnings.

 

[Journey_man]

The View That Christians Can Fall from Grace

This perspective relies on explicit warnings and conditional statements found throughout the New Testament epistles and Gospels: [1]

Galatians 5:4: The Apostle Paul writes that believers who try to earn their righteousness through the Mosaic Law have "been severed from Christ" and "fallen away from grace". [1, 2]

Hebrews 6:4–6: The writer warns that individuals who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, and shared in the Holy Spirit can still "fall away," making renewal to repentance impossible. [1]

The Parable of the Sower (Luke 8:13): Jesus describes people who believe for a while, but in a time of testing or temptation, they fall away. [1, 2, 3]

The View That True Believers Cannot Lose Salvation

This perspective teaches that genuine believers are eternally secure and that apparent "falling away" reveals a lack of true, regenerating faith from the beginning: [1]

John 10:28–29: Jesus states that He gives eternal life to His sheep, they will never perish, and no one can snatch them out of His hand. [1]

Romans 8:38–39: Paul declares that nothing in all creation—including death, life, or future events—can separate a believer from the love of God in Christ.

Alternative view of Galatians 5:4: Proponents argue this verse describes a believer slipping out of a daily experience of grace into legalism, rather than losing their eternal salvation or status as a child of God.

No, Paul does not write in Galatians 5:4 that " believers who try to earn their righteousness through the Mosaic Law have "been severed from Christ" and "fallen away from grace". You just made that nonsense up, believers are not mentioned in the verse.
Galatians 5:4 does not teach that a believer can lose their salvation. "falling from grace" means turning away from the system or principle of grace and attempting to earn righteousness through human effort or keeping the law (such as circumcision).

To seek justification by the law is to reject the sufficiency of Christ. Paul is saying that if you try to be saved by works, Christ becomes of no benefit to you because you have placed yourself under a different method of salvation.

Your attempt to make Hebrews 6:4-6 say that believers can lose their salvation is also nonsense. Again, there is no mention of believers. This passage describes those who go to Church for a free lunch and cappuccino, but are not believers. They may claim to believe by their moth, but their actions reveal they never were.

 

[Journey_man]

Galatians 6:7-8
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a person sows, this he will also reap. For the one who sows to
his own flesh will reap destruction from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit.

I cannot fathom how someone with a knowledge of the New Testament could ever say that a Christian. Cannot fall away
from Jesus Christ.

Israel in the Old Testament fell away from God many times and that is the example set in stone.

The Catholic Church fell from grace more than a thousand years ago and that is the bulk of the Christian Church.

Your telling me 'once saved always saved'.

We have already begun the great falling away that Paul spoke of in Thessalonians.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Paul warns believers not to be deceived about the timing of the "Day of the Lord". He writes that the day will not
arrive "unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed".

The Lord returns after the falling away takes place.

I'm not sure why you reject sound doctrine, but I can only assume it's because of what 2 Timothy 4:3-4 says

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."

There is nothing in the Bible to support your private opinion that a Christian, can fall away. Please find the elusive verse if it exists, or just admit you're wrong.

 

[OMC]

No, Paul does not write in Galatians 5:4 that " believers who try to earn their righteousness through the Mosaic Law have "been severed from Christ" and "fallen away from grace". You just made that nonsense up, believers are not mentioned in the verse.
Galatians 5:4 does not teach that a believer can lose their salvation. "falling from grace" means turning away from the system or principle of grace and attempting to earn righteousness through human effort or keeping the law (such as circumcision).

To seek justification by the law is to reject the sufficiency of Christ. Paul is saying that if you try to be saved by works, Christ becomes of no benefit to you because you have placed yourself under a different method of salvation.

Your attempt to make Hebrews 6:4-6 say that believers can lose their salvation is also nonsense. Again, there is no mention of believers. This passage describes those who go to Church for a free lunch and cappuccino, but are not believers. They may claim to believe by their moth, but their actions reveal they never were.

This should help,
If you attempt δικαιοῦσθε ἐν νόμῳ—to be justified in the Law—then κατηργήθητε ἀπὸ τοῦ Χριστοῦ, you are severed from Christ, and τῆς χάριτος ἐξεπέσατε, you have fallen from grace.

This is not about “losing salvation after being saved.” It is about the principle of justification:
If you shift the ground of justification from Christ to Law, then Christ’s justifying work becomes of no effect for you.

 

[Journey_man]

Paul is not describing a saved man losing salvation; he is describing two life-principles and their final harvest. A life characterized by sowing to the flesh ends in corruption; a life characterized by sowing to the Spirit ends in eternal life. That’s exactly the same pattern as Romans 8:13—“if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.”
So:
the Greek says “the one who sows,” and the context shows Paul is warning the believing community;
the passage does not teach loss of salvation, but it does teach that a flesh‑dominated life reaps destruction, and a Spirit‑dominated life reaps eternal life.

No, Paul is not describing a "life characterized by sowing to the flesh ends in corruption". Paul knows better than to teach such nonsense.

The life of an unbeliever does not end in corruption, instead that life is corrupt from the point of conception and throughout their life and throughout eternity. This means they always were and always will be reprobate. Their names are not written in Gods book of life, because God never chose them for salvation.

Your Arminian version of the gospel is not supported by any scripture.

 

[OMC]

No, Paul is not describing a "life characterized by sowing to the flesh ends in corruption". Paul knows better than to teach such nonsense.

The life of an unbeliever does not end in corruption, instead that life is corrupt from the point of conception and throughout their life and throughout eternity. This means they always were and always will be reprobate. Their names are not written in Gods book of life, because God never chose them for salvation.

Your Arminian version of the gospel is not supported by any scripture

Brother, your commitment to God’s sovereignty is not the problem. The problem is that you are dismissing Paul’s inspired language because it does not align with your system. A Christian theologian must submit his system to Scripture, not Scripture to his system. Paul teaches both present depravity and future corruption; both divine election and human responsibility; both eternal decrees and temporal warnings. To deny any of these is not Calvinism—it is reductionism

 

[Journey_man]

Scripture does not treat apostolic exhortations as “optional,” nor does it treat salvation as a state in which warnings become irrelevant. And I reject the idea that “saved people cannot fall away” makes exhortations non‑binding, because the New Testament repeatedly gives imperatives, warnings, and conditions to saved people. I stand firmly on this: 1 Thessalonians 5:21 is an imperative addressed to believers, and the fact that they are saved does not remove the weight of the command nor the reality of the warning
1 Thessalonians 5:21 is an imperative — not a suggestion.
Greek: πάντα δὲ δοκιμάζετε, τὸ καλὸν κατέχετε “Test all things; hold fast to what is good.”
Both verbs are imperatives:
δοκιμάζετε — test, examine
κατέχετε — hold fast, cling to
Imperatives are commands, not mere exhortations.
Paul is not saying: “It would be nice if you tested things.”
He is saying:
“You must test everything.”

This is the same grammatical force as:
“Abstain from every form of evil.”
“Pray without ceasing.”
“Rejoice always.”
All imperatives.
You said: “The hearers were already saved, so they were not going to fall away.”
But Scripture gives commands to saved people constantly:
“Put to death the deeds of the body.” — Rom. 8:13
“Do not be conformed to this world.” — Rom. 12:2
“Flee sexual immorality.” — 1 Cor. 6:18
“Work out your salvation.” — Phil. 2:12
“Take up the whole armor of God.” — Eph. 6:13
“Keep yourselves in the love of God.” — Jude 21
These are not optional because believers are “safe.”
They are commands because believers are saved.
You said: “They were not going to fall away.”
But Paul gives warnings to believers precisely because falling away is a real danger for professing believers, not for the elect.
Examples:
“If you live according to the flesh, you will die.” — Rom. 8:13
“Do not be arrogant, but fear.” — Rom. 11:20
“Take heed lest you fall.” — 1 Cor. 10:12
“Some have made shipwreck of their faith.” — 1 Tim. 1:19
“Beware… lest any of you be hardened.” — Heb. 3:12–13
These warnings are addressed to church members, not outsiders.
Warnings do not imply the elect can fall. Warnings expose the false and preserve the true.
Exhortation vs. command is a false distinction.
In Paul’s letters:
exhortations are imperatives
imperatives are commands
commands are binding
binding instructions are for believers
Paul does not say:“ Since you’re saved, you don’t need to test anything.”
He says: “Test everything.”
The grammar is not optional.
Your concern is pastoral, not grammatical.
You’re saying: “They were saved, so they weren’t going to fall away.”
I agree that the elect cannot fall away. But Paul does not use that truth to remove commands.
He uses commands to preserve the elect and expose the false.
Commands are the means God uses to keep His people.
I acknowledge your claim that 1 Thessalonians 5:21 is “only an exhortation,” but the Greek grammar shows two imperatives — commands — addressed to believers;
I reject the idea that being saved makes commands optional or warnings irrelevant, because the New Testament repeatedly gives imperatives and warnings to saved people as the means God uses to preserve them; and I stand firmly on this: 1 Thessalonians 5:21 is a binding command to believers, not a casual exhortation, and salvation does not remove the need for obedience nor the reality of warnings.

I never claimed that 1 Thess 5:21 was optional or irrelevant to Gods elect. I simply made the point that we don't lose our salvation, if we disobey it. Our salvation is not conditional on our ability to keep the law/commandments.

I know Arminianism teaches the "saved by works" version of the gospel. But the true gospel message, as we have it in the Bible says that "salvation is by grace" and not by works as you suggest.

If a genuine Christian experiences temporary spiritual weakness, immaturity, or deception. They remain saved. God will faithfully use conviction, discipline, and the Holy Spirit to bring them back to repentance and sound truth over time.

Those church goers who make a false outward profession of faith, without actually being regenerated by God, were never saved to begin with. Their permanent rejection of the truth reveals that they never possessed true saving faith (1 John 2:19).

All of Gods commandments still stand in the new covenant, so we are exhorted and commanded to keep them to the best of our ability. But none of us are able to keep any of them, that's why the Lord Jesus came to keep them on behalf of Gods elect. He takes all of our past, present and future sins upon Himself and imputes His righteousness to us.

Legalism is unbiblical, as it makes a mockery of the work Christ did on the cross.

 

[Journey_man]

Brother, your commitment to God’s sovereignty is not the problem. The problem is that you are dismissing Paul’s inspired language because it does not align with your system. A Christian theologian must submit his system to Scripture, not Scripture to his system. Paul teaches both present depravity and future corruption; both divine election and human responsibility; both eternal decrees and temporal warnings. To deny any of these is not Calvinism—it is reductionism

Can you please explain in what way does Pauls inspired language, not align with "Reformed Theology". It's one thing to make a claim, but if it's not based on Gods Word, then it's only based on your private unqualified opinion.

Where does Paul teach "present depravity and future corruption" as separate events. Where does Paul teach that "divine election" is conditional on human responsibility? Perhaps you should take your own advice and submit to scripture, instead of forcing scripture to submit to what your denomination teaches.

 

[Inquisitor]

Wrong again, Galatians 6:6-8 does not support your Arminian version of the gospel, which teaches that a saved person can lose their salvation.

Galatians 6 does not say that a believer sows to his own flesh. The text actually says "For the one", it doesn't say "for the believer who sows to his own flesh will reap corruption". You just made that nonsense up, to support your unbiblical version of the gospel.

The letter to the Galatians was addressed to the church in Galatia.

Paul was warning the entire Galatian church.

Galatians 3:1
You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?

Paul was not talking to some individual in Galatia?

 

[Inquisitor]

I'm not sure why you reject sound doctrine, but I can only assume it's because of what 2 Timothy 4:3-4 says

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."

There is nothing in the Bible to support your private opinion that a Christian, can fall away. Please find the elusive verse if it exists, or just admit you're wrong.

Galatians 6:7-8
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a person sows, this he will also reap. For the one who sows to
his own flesh will reap destruction from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit.

Your opinion is not based on the text states.

Your opinion is a philosophical idea that a believer is eternally secure regardless of how they behave.

 

[DavidLamb]

The letter to the Galatians was addressed to the church in Galatia.

Paul was warning the entire Galatian church.

Galatians 3:1
You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?

Paul was not talking to some individual in Galatia?

It was actually addresses to the churches in Galatia:

NKJV Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),
Gal 1:2 and all the brethren who are with me, To the churches of Galatia:

 

[Inquisitor]

It was actually addresses to the churches in Galatia:

NKJV Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead),
Gal 1:2 and all the brethren who are with me, To the churches of Galatia:

Thanks David.

The letter was actually addressed to every Christian church from AD 60 to AD 2026.

Paul told the church at Colossae to swap their letter (the letter to the Colossians) with the church at Laodicea.

Colossians 4:16
After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans and that you in turn read
the letter from Laodicea.

Letter swapping was the order of the day.

 

[Journey_man]

The letter to the Galatians was addressed to the church in Galatia.

Paul was warning the entire Galatian church.

Galatians 3:1
You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?

Paul was not talking to some individual in Galatia?

I couldn't find any warnings in any of the verses you referred to. Can you please show me the verse where saved people lose their salvation. I haven't found a single verse in the Bible to support any such nonsense.

 

[GWH]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

Apparently, you are a tulipist, who believes God loves only a few folks He forces to have "faith", whereas I am a mfwer,
who believes God loves all of humanity and provides them the opportunity to accept His grace. IOW, God initiates; sinners may cooperate--or not, which makes them instead of God responsible for not repenting.

When sinners repent, they become members of the body of Christ as his loving Holy Spirit indwells their hearts, motivating them to glorify God and reflect His omnilove to others. Repentance is the right decision, and satisfying God's condition for salvation through accepting God's gift does not mean they earned or deserve it.

 

[GWH]

I couldn't find any warnings in any of the verses you referred to. Can you please show me the verse where saved people lose their salvation. I haven't found a single verse in the Bible to support any such nonsense.

You won't find verses when you don't seek them.
The issue is not accidentally losing salvation but rather intentionally repudiating saving faith aka apostasy.
That possibility is indicated by the following verses in Scripture that I found and amended my Baptist belief in OSAS:

There are numerous verses in the NT which indicate that it is possible for a believer intentionally or willfully to separate him/herself from Christ (cf. Gal. 5:1 & Rev. 12:9). The classic passage that teaches the possibility of apostasy is Heb. 6:4-6: “It is impossible for those who have… shared in the Holy Spirit… if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again.” Another verse in this vein is Gal. 5:4: “You who are trying to be justified by law… have fallen away from grace.”

Also see Rom. 11:22, 1Cor. 15:2, Col. 1:22-23, 2Thes. 1:4-5, 2Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6&14, 10:35-36, Jam. 1:12, 2Pet. 1:10-11, 2:20, 1John 2:24-25 and Rev. 2:10.