Revelation 19- A major Key to understanding Revelations
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But you didn't answer my question about why you posted "DavidLamb wrote" followed by words that I definitely didn't write. Anybody ready your post would assume that I had written the words.
What does, "You act now like you don't remember now another chime in .what's that about" mean? What "chime"? To me, a chime is the sound a clock makes on the hour, and sometimes every half hour or even quarter.
I don't know why you ask about a seance. I have never ever partaken in such a devilish thing.
Rev 19 has Jesus with a sharp sword coming out of His mouth and He "smites" the nations (verse 15).
Verse 21 says, "And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh." (Do you even READ these texts before posting?)
Yet you think this means some people survive His 2nd coming? Only the righteous survive. The ones taken to Him while He is in the clouds. I gave those texts above.
So when does Jesus' promise come to pass that He will come again and take His people to His Father's house?
Yes , Isa 24 and Jer 4 are depictions of Jesus' 2nd coming:
Jer 4:25-27 "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end."
Isa 24:19-22 I'm not going to type the whole thing here. It's only 4 verses. you can read that for yourself. But I would suggest the whole chapter.
Read Zephaniah chapter 1 also.
Of course, if you have refused to read the other texts then why should you read this one too?
Revelation 19 does NOT say every human on earth dies.
It says: “He smites the nations.” “The remnant were slain.”
“Smites” ≠ “annihilates.”
“Remnant” ≠ “every human.”
The text describes the armies gathered against Christ, not the entire global population.
Revelation 19 is a battle scene, not a global extinction event.
You are confusing:
the armies with the nations.
They are not the same.
Revelation 19 describes the destruction of the wicked who oppose Christ — not the annihilation of all humanity.
The slain are:
the beast’s armies,
the kings who fight Christ,
the military coalition gathered at Armageddon.
Not:
infants,
families,
nations,
the righteous,
the entire human race.
You are reading more into the text than the text says.
Revelation 20 explicitly shows nations existing AFTER Christ returns.
This alone destroys the “earth is empty” claim.
Revelation 20:3: “He must be released for a little while to deceive the nations.”
If the earth were empty:
there would be no nations,
no people,
no deception,
no rebellion,
no Gog and Magog.
But Revelation says nations exist after Christ’s return.
You must either:
deny Revelation 20, or abandon the “earth is empty” doctrine.
You cannot keep both.
Isaiah 24 and Jeremiah 4 are NOT descriptions of the Second Coming.
They are judgment oracles using prophetic hyperbole, the same language used for:
Babylon (Isa 13)
Edom (Isa 34)
Egypt (Ezek 32)
Nineveh (Zeph 2)
Samaria (Mic 1)
If Isaiah 24 were literal:
the earth would be permanently empty,
no restoration would follow,
no remnant would survive.
But Isaiah 24 ends with: “The LORD will reign in Zion.” “Glory before His elders.”
That requires people.
Jeremiah 4 ends with: “Yet I will not make a full end.”
That requires survivors.
You are treating poetic devastation as literal eschatology.
That is a category error.
Jesus does NOT take the Church to heaven for the millennium.
John 14:2–3 is not a rapture text.
“My Father’s house” = the household of God, not a mansion district in heaven.
Jesus says: “Where I am, you will be also.”
Where is He after He returns?
On earth.
You are importing your system into the text.
The righteous do NOT leave the earth — they inherit it.
Jesus says: “The meek shall inherit the earth.”
Not heaven.
Not a temporary holding place.
Not a celestial mansion district.
The earth.
Your system contradicts Jesus directly.
I'm guessing you do not believe in a resurrection from the dead. Satan is released from his "prison" at the end of the 1,000 years. This is when the wicked dead are raised. So, yes, he will have nations to deceive again.
Jer 4 "Yet I will not make a full end" does not imply survivors which contradicts the rest of the chapter. Again, the wicked dead are raised at the end of the 1,000 years. THEN God will make a full end...
You need to read Jesus' promise in John 14. He says He GOES to prepare a "place". He does not says He STAYS here to prepare a place....
Your scenario NEVER has the righteous entering heaven.
Jer 25:33 "And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground."
This is a time when all the living wicked are destroyed but NOT by fire at the end of Rev 20's 1,000 years.
Incorrect — I believe exactly what Revelation 20 says.**
Revelation 20 teaches two resurrections:
First resurrection — the righteous (Rev 20:4–6)
Second resurrection — the wicked (Rev 20:11–13)
You are collapsing them into one event, but John does not.
Your system requires:
all wicked destroyed at the Second Coming
earth empty for 1,000 years
wicked resurrected at the end
Satan deceiving resurrected wicked only
But Revelation 20 says: “He will deceive the nations.” (Rev 20:8)
Not “the resurrected wicked.”
Not “the dead brought back.”
Not “the corpses of Jeremiah 25.”
Nations.
Nations require living people.
Your system contradicts the text.
Nope there are two MAIN resurrections when the dead are brought back to life again. PLUS some special resurrections mentioned in scripture but for all intents and purposes only the 2 in Rev 20 are of concern here.
"Nations require living people" Your own words. I agree.
Claiming no one is alive on earth during the 1,000 years does not contradict this.
Satan does not deceive the nations until AFTER the 1,000 years are over. This is AFTER the 2nd resurrection.
The wicked dead will be resurrected back to life.
That's why I asked if you believed in a resurrection.
The wicked are resurrected, deceived by Satan and go to war again against God and His people. You might like Joel 3:9-15.
It describes the heathen "waking" up and going to war in the valley of Jehoshaphat where God judges them. "Multitudes in the valley of decision".
It is the same event in Rev 20 where the resurrected wicked surround God's "camp" before fire comes down out of heaven.
your entire argument hinges on one assumption that Revelation 20 explicitly contradicts. You are assuming the nations in Rev 20:8 = resurrected wicked. But John says they are nations already existing on earth.
- Rev 20:3 shows nations exist during the 1000 years.
- Rev 20:8 says nations, not resurrected wicked.
- Rev 20:11–13 shows the wicked are raised after Gog–Magog.
Rev 19 has the saints from the first resurrection from the pretrib rapture 7 yrs earlier already in heaven.
Rev 20 shows the 2nd resurrection to the gwt judgment, after the mil.
Are you saying the ones that reign with Christ during the millennium are those from the rapture?
Revelation
- Revelation 20:3 — “the nations” not deceived during the thousand years
- Revelation 20:8 — “the nations… Gog and Magog” after the thousand years
Isaiah
- Isaiah 2:2–4 — nations flowing to the Lord
- Isaiah 11:10–12 — nations seeking the Root of Jesse
- Isaiah 19:23–25 — Egypt, Assyria, Israel blessed together
- Isaiah 60:3–12 — nations coming to Zion’s light
- Isaiah 65:20–23 — people living, dying, bearing children
Zechariah
- Zechariah 14:16–19 — nations going up yearly to worship the King
Micah
- Micah 4:1–3 — nations taught and judged by the Messiah
Psalms
- Psalm 72:8–11 — all nations serving the Messianic King
Daniel
- Daniel 7:14 — all peoples, nations, and languages serving Him
- Daniel 7:27 — dominion over all nations under Messiah’s rule
Joel
- Joel 3:17–21 — nations surrounding Jerusalem after the Day of the Lord
Amos
- Amos 9:11–12 — restored Davidic kingdom possessing the nations
Ezekiel
- Ezekiel 36:22–36 — nations witnessing Israel’s restoration
- Ezekiel 37:21–28 — nations recognizing the Lord’s sanctuary among Israel
Some are.
Firstfruits is millions and millions. Already in heaven now.
Rapture is millions and millions.
Pretrib.
Are you saying the ones that reign with Christ during the millennium are those from the rapture?
No — those who reign with Christ in the millennium are not only the raptured saints.
Revelation 20 shows that all who belong to Christ share that reign: the resurrected saints, the transformed living saints, and the tribulation martyrs who refused the beast.
The text says, “They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years,” and that group clearly includes more than those caught up at the rapture.
No — those who reign with Christ in the millennium are not only the raptured saints.
Revelation 20 shows that all who belong to Christ share that reign: the resurrected saints, the transformed living saints, and the tribulation martyrs who refused the beast.
The text says, “They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years,” and that group clearly includes more than those caught up at the rapture.
Brother, the answer is short and entirely scriptural:
The firstfruits were resurrected when Christ was resurrected.
Scripture says it plainly:
1 Corinthians 15:20 — “Christ is risen… and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”
1 Corinthians 15:23 — “Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming.”
There is no earlier resurrection, no separate group, no hidden harvest.
Christ’s resurrection is the firstfruits resurrection.