Advice Needed: Should I get involved?

[Delvianna]

I want to start out by saying I haven't been in a group/social settings for decades. My spouse has isolated me over the years and previous to that, I constantly was moving, so I don't even know what the protocol for this is.

So in church, there is a man (I'll name him Bill) who is currently "dating" (I'll name her Sara). Sara doesn't really come to church, she comes every once in a while, but they met through a mutual friend (I'll name her Emily) who is a regular. Both Emily and Bill are regulars in the church. Emily's husband and Bill are in security for the church together and are also close friends. About 8 months ago, Bill met Sara. After a few months of talking, they thought that God was drawing them to each other as a couple, and so they decided to be friends to see if they are compatible with the idea of marriage. They gave themselves 1 year to figure this out. A few months ago, Bill claimed it was getting serious. He's fallen in love with her, he has no doubt in his mind that she is the one for him and even gave a story about how some client of his figured out he was taken because of how he acts. (For context, both people are in their 30's).

Fast forward 5 months. Me and my x are out to lunch with Bill. Bill hits on the waitress. Asks her what dessert they have, and if it could be shared by 2 people, she gives a recommendation to which he says he was hoping to share it with her after she said its only portioned for 1 person. She laughed and walked away. He told me about him doing this before because he said he gets a kick out of making people laugh (he used to get bullied growing up and he found if he makes people laugh it eases the tension) but 5 months into a relationship where he says they've picked out wedding rings and know what gifts theyre giving each other, is a hell of a lot different than doing this in the past. Bill noticed I was upset and asked what was up. I told him it was straight up disrespectful to Sara. At first he got defensive said he was just trying to make her laugh, he wouldn't actually follow through with it but I shook my head and said, it's disrespectful. He sat for a minute, agreed and then apologized.

Fast forward 1 month later. We are currently attending a funeral for someone in the church who passed away. In comes (I'll name her Chelsie). Chelsie and Bill are friends. I witnessed Chelsie and Bill flirt 6 months previous just at the start of Bill getting to know Sara. Now here is where the main issue is. At the ending party, Chelsie was standing next to Bill. Sara did not come. Bill is sitting down. During this entire interaction, Bill has his arm around Chelsie. Chelsie is standing really close to him, about next to his side. The look on her face is she's attracted to him. She says something seriously ignorant which Bill responds with "You have to be kidding. You're joking right?" She laughs and asks "what?" to which Bill responds with, "You're lucky you're so beautiful". And when he said that, he looked her up and down, his eyes landed on her lips and the vibe was clearly sexual. The kind of look a man gives a woman at a bar. I was disgusted. She laughed and swayed into him more. They continued talking for a few more minutes with his arm around her and then she moved to go sit and he got up to go somewhere else...

So here's what I'm asking... I feel really bad for Sara who knows none of this. I know what it feels like to not be loved by a spouse or have someone claim love and do the polar opposite and if anything, any talk of marriage should NOT be on the table right now. I could tell leadership, I could tell Emily who is close friends with both, but I don't know if I should. I don't want it to be me to be the reason they break up because I stuck my nose in someone else's business. Or me cause drama because of it...

So I need help... I need advice... What do I do with this? I don't know Sara at all, I've never met her yet.

 

[Churchgoer]

Thank you for sharing.

Tough situation.

If bill is only flirting in public, not actually doing shady things in private, then might be all right.

Maybe encourage sara to spend more public time with bill, see how bill behaves by her own eyes.

 

[OMC]

I want to start out by saying I haven't been in a group/social settings for decades. My spouse has isolated me over the years and previous to that, I constantly was moving, so I don't even know what the protocol for this is.

So in church, there is a man (I'll name him Bill) who is currently "dating" (I'll name her Sara). Sara doesn't really come to church, she comes every once in a while, but they met through a mutual friend (I'll name her Emily) who is a regular. Both Emily and Bill are regulars in the church. Emily's husband and Bill are in security for the church together and are also close friends. About 8 months ago, Bill met Sara. After a few months of talking, they thought that God was drawing them to each other as a couple, and so they decided to be friends to see if they are compatible with the idea of marriage. They gave themselves 1 year to figure this out. A few months ago, Bill claimed it was getting serious. He's fallen in love with her, he has no doubt in his mind that she is the one for him and even gave a story about how some client of his figured out he was taken because of how he acts. (For context, both people are in their 30's).

Fast forward 5 months. Me and my x are out to lunch with Bill. Bill hits on the waitress. Asks her what dessert they have, and if it could be shared by 2 people, she gives a recommendation to which he says he was hoping to share it with her after she said its only portioned for 1 person. She laughed and walked away. He told me about him doing this before because he said he gets a kick out of making people laugh (he used to get bullied growing up and he found if he makes people laugh it eases the tension) but 5 months into a relationship where he says they've picked out wedding rings and know what gifts theyre giving each other, is a hell of a lot different than doing this in the past. Bill noticed I was upset and asked what was up. I told him it was straight up disrespectful to Sara. At first he got defensive said he was just trying to make her laugh, he wouldn't actually follow through with it but I shook my head and said, it's disrespectful. He sat for a minute, agreed and then apologized.

Fast forward 1 month later. We are currently attending a funeral for someone in the church who passed away. In comes (I'll name her Chelsie). Chelsie and Bill are friends. I witnessed Chelsie and Bill flirt 6 months previous just at the start of Bill getting to know Sara. Now here is where the main issue is. At the ending party, Chelsie was standing next to Bill. Sara did not come. Bill is sitting down. During this entire interaction, Bill has his arm around Chelsie. Chelsie is standing really close to him, about next to his side. The look on her face is she's attracted to him. She says something seriously ignorant which Bill responds with "You have to be kidding. You're joking right?" She laughs and asks "what?" to which Bill responds with, "You're lucky you're so beautiful". And when he said that, he looked her up and down, his eyes landed on her lips and the vibe was clearly sexual. The kind of look a man gives a woman at a bar. I was disgusted. She laughed and swayed into him more. They continued talking for a few more minutes with his arm around her and then she moved to go sit and he got up to go somewhere else...

So here's what I'm asking... I feel really bad for Sara who knows none of this. I know what it feels like to not be loved by a spouse or have someone claim love and do the polar opposite and if anything, any talk of marriage should NOT be on the table right now. I could tell leadership, I could tell Emily who is close friends with both, but I don't know if I should. I don't want it to be me to be the reason they break up because I stuck my nose in someone else's business. Or me cause drama because of it...

So I need help... I need advice... What do I do with this? I don't know Sara at all, I've never met her yet

Brother, Wow, you are not dealing with a “protocol problem,” you are dealing with a character problem, and Bill’s behavior is not innocent, not harmless, and not “just making people laugh.” Call things as they are, not as they seem.
It is open flirtation, emotional infidelity, and double‑mindedness, and Scripture says plainly that a man who behaves this way is not walking in love (Eph 5:25), not walking honestly (Rom 13:13), and not treating women as sisters with all purity (1 Tim 5:2).
You are not “causing drama” by noticing sin; the drama already exists because Bill is living two different lives.
But here is the part you need to hear: you are not the one to go to Sara, because you don’t know her and you’re not in relationship with her.
The right path is simple and biblical — you go privately to Bill again (Matt 18:15), you tell him plainly that what you witnessed is not compatible with pursuing a godly marriage, and you urge him to bring this into the light with leadership himself.
If he refuses, then you go to someone who is spiritually responsible for him — likely Emily’s husband, since he is close to Bill and serves with him, or a trusted elder.
You are not betraying him; you are protecting the purity of the body (Gal 6:1). And brother, hear this gently: Sara deserves truth, not a man who practices affection with multiple women while claiming God is leading him toward marriage.
You’re not meddling — you’re guarding the flock.

 

[Churchgoer]

Thank you for sharing.

Tough situation.

If bill is only flirting in public, not actually doing shady things in private, then might be all right.

Maybe encourage sara to spend more public time with bill, see how bill behaves by her own eyes.

A very practical advice from a pastor, he encourages dating people to date in public setting, which will expose a lot of characters.

I absolutely agree. In group setting, in restaurants, in church gatherings, in Beach events..... really shows a lot. Good and bad characters. Then people can make a decision

 

[Delvianna]

Thank you for sharing.

Tough situation.

If bill is only flirting in public, not actually doing shady things in private, then might be all right.

Maybe encourage sara to spend more public time with bill, see how bill behaves by her own eyes.

Thanks! I've never met her so, I can't encourage her, but I do wish she would turn up to church more often. It just seems like we keep missing each other. If I'm sick, she finally chooses that day to come lol. I just don't want Bill marrying Sara just because he's lonely and wants someone and continues to do this stuff behind her back. I doubt any woman would feel fine with their spouse doing this. Personally, it would make me feel like I'm just not good enough if you feel it's necessary to indulge in attraction with other women, even if it doesn't move further than flirting.

Sara is currently staying with Emily and her spouse, so when Bill comes to visit, they aren't alone. But I do agree that Sara should see him regularly in public... My x met her and according to him, her reasoning for not going to church is because its too much to get her kids ready. She has a toddler and a 10 year old from a previous relationship. So I don't think she will suddenly just start coming more often out of no where. Specially since she has a ride with Emily and her spouse should she need 1 since she's crashing at Emily's place. (She's from out of state.)

 

[Delvianna]

Brother, Wow, you are not dealing with a “protocol problem,” you are dealing with a character problem, and Bill’s behavior is not innocent, not harmless, and not “just making people laugh.” Call things as they are, not as they seem.
It is open flirtation, emotional infidelity, and double‑mindedness, and Scripture says plainly that a man who behaves this way is not walking in love (Eph 5:25), not walking honestly (Rom 13:13), and not treating women as sisters with all purity (1 Tim 5:2).
You are not “causing drama” by noticing sin; the drama already exists because Bill is living two different lives.
But here is the part you need to hear: you are not the one to go to Sara, because you don’t know her and you’re not in relationship with her.
The right path is simple and biblical — you go privately to Bill again (Matt 18:15), you tell him plainly that what you witnessed is not compatible with pursuing a godly marriage, and you urge him to bring this into the light with leadership himself.
If he refuses, then you go to someone who is spiritually responsible for him — likely Emily’s husband, since he is close to Bill and serves with him, or a trusted elder.
You are not betraying him; you are protecting the purity of the body (Gal 6:1). And brother, hear this gently: Sara deserves truth, not a man who practices affection with multiple women while claiming God is leading him toward marriage.
You’re not meddling — you’re guarding the flock.

I'm a sister, not a brother, but thank you. I was considering saying something to Bill again too but wasn't sure if I should. Being warm with people is 1 thing, but I just feel like Bill took it to a whole 'nother level with that interaction with Chelsie. I could tell Bills mentor, one of the churches leaders but like I said, I wasn't sure if I should say anything at all.

My best friend is suggesting I stay out of the whole thing. But you do bring up good points. I'm just not confident yet in an answer...

 

[Bible_Locket]

I want to start out by saying I haven't been in a group/social settings for decades. My spouse has isolated me over the years and previous to that, I constantly was moving, so I don't even know what the protocol for this is.

So in church, there is a man (I'll name him Bill) who is currently "dating" (I'll name her Sara). Sara doesn't really come to church, she comes every once in a while, but they met through a mutual friend (I'll name her Emily) who is a regular. Both Emily and Bill are regulars in the church. Emily's husband and Bill are in security for the church together and are also close friends. About 8 months ago, Bill met Sara. After a few months of talking, they thought that God was drawing them to each other as a couple, and so they decided to be friends to see if they are compatible with the idea of marriage. They gave themselves 1 year to figure this out. A few months ago, Bill claimed it was getting serious. He's fallen in love with her, he has no doubt in his mind that she is the one for him and even gave a story about how some client of his figured out he was taken because of how he acts. (For context, both people are in their 30's).

Fast forward 5 months. Me and my x are out to lunch with Bill. Bill hits on the waitress. Asks her what dessert they have, and if it could be shared by 2 people, she gives a recommendation to which he says he was hoping to share it with her after she said its only portioned for 1 person. She laughed and walked away. He told me about him doing this before because he said he gets a kick out of making people laugh (he used to get bullied growing up and he found if he makes people laugh it eases the tension) but 5 months into a relationship where he says they've picked out wedding rings and know what gifts theyre giving each other, is a hell of a lot different than doing this in the past. Bill noticed I was upset and asked what was up. I told him it was straight up disrespectful to Sara. At first he got defensive said he was just trying to make her laugh, he wouldn't actually follow through with it but I shook my head and said, it's disrespectful. He sat for a minute, agreed and then apologized.

Fast forward 1 month later. We are currently attending a funeral for someone in the church who passed away. In comes (I'll name her Chelsie). Chelsie and Bill are friends. I witnessed Chelsie and Bill flirt 6 months previous just at the start of Bill getting to know Sara. Now here is where the main issue is. At the ending party, Chelsie was standing next to Bill. Sara did not come. Bill is sitting down. During this entire interaction, Bill has his arm around Chelsie. Chelsie is standing really close to him, about next to his side. The look on her face is she's attracted to him. She says something seriously ignorant which Bill responds with "You have to be kidding. You're joking right?" She laughs and asks "what?" to which Bill responds with, "You're lucky you're so beautiful". And when he said that, he looked her up and down, his eyes landed on her lips and the vibe was clearly sexual. The kind of look a man gives a woman at a bar. I was disgusted. She laughed and swayed into him more. They continued talking for a few more minutes with his arm around her and then she moved to go sit and he got up to go somewhere else...

So here's what I'm asking... I feel really bad for Sara who knows none of this. I know what it feels like to not be loved by a spouse or have someone claim love and do the polar opposite and if anything, any talk of marriage should NOT be on the table right now. I could tell leadership, I could tell Emily who is close friends with both, but I don't know if I should. I don't want it to be me to be the reason they break up because I stuck my nose in someone else's business. Or me cause drama because of it...

So I need help... I need advice... What do I do with this? I don't know Sara at all, I've never met her yet.

Consider Bill is flirting in public but also in front of people who know of his personal relationship with Sara.

It could be in o ent and a means of breaking the ice with strangers. But really, it's creepy.

You don't know Sara. Is that odd to you? You haven't met her yet?

I can tell you from experience. If a woman is head over heels for her man,that old love is blind adage is there.

If he's a dog, he'll prove it himself. And she will have to see it with her own eyes to believe it.

As much as his behavior concerns you,it isn't your business.

What is in your zip code is to consider if you want anything to do with someone who behaves like that.

I knew an Air Force veteran who gave the word,Whole a bad name.
Be was loud,verbally abusive to his wife and you get son.
And when in public he'd flirt with waitresses, make uncouth remarks,loudly! I front of his wife. And us.

He had no respect. And later in life after he had had lighted and abused his wife for decades,he divorced her. Who he insisted ne er learn a trade and stay home to raise his sons.

He'd had an affair for awhile and sending he was neat the end,wanted his freedom.
That lasted for less than t years. He died alone in the base hospital.

So,whatever is going on with Bill,it's not in your wheelhouse.

And it's nup to her,Sara,what she'll tolerate in her life.
She'll learn from it,whatever comes.

Life is a classroom.

 

[Gideon300]

I want to start out by saying I haven't been in a group/social settings for decades. My spouse has isolated me over the years and previous to that, I constantly was moving, so I don't even know what the protocol for this is.

So in church, there is a man (I'll name him Bill) who is currently "dating" (I'll name her Sara). Sara doesn't really come to church, she comes every once in a while, but they met through a mutual friend (I'll name her Emily) who is a regular. Both Emily and Bill are regulars in the church. Emily's husband and Bill are in security for the church together and are also close friends. About 8 months ago, Bill met Sara. After a few months of talking, they thought that God was drawing them to each other as a couple, and so they decided to be friends to see if they are compatible with the idea of marriage. They gave themselves 1 year to figure this out. A few months ago, Bill claimed it was getting serious. He's fallen in love with her, he has no doubt in his mind that she is the one for him and even gave a story about how some client of his figured out he was taken because of how he acts. (For context, both people are in their 30's).

Fast forward 5 months. Me and my x are out to lunch with Bill. Bill hits on the waitress. Asks her what dessert they have, and if it could be shared by 2 people, she gives a recommendation to which he says he was hoping to share it with her after she said its only portioned for 1 person. She laughed and walked away. He told me about him doing this before because he said he gets a kick out of making people laugh (he used to get bullied growing up and he found if he makes people laugh it eases the tension) but 5 months into a relationship where he says they've picked out wedding rings and know what gifts theyre giving each other, is a hell of a lot different than doing this in the past. Bill noticed I was upset and asked what was up. I told him it was straight up disrespectful to Sara. At first he got defensive said he was just trying to make her laugh, he wouldn't actually follow through with it but I shook my head and said, it's disrespectful. He sat for a minute, agreed and then apologized.

Fast forward 1 month later. We are currently attending a funeral for someone in the church who passed away. In comes (I'll name her Chelsie). Chelsie and Bill are friends. I witnessed Chelsie and Bill flirt 6 months previous just at the start of Bill getting to know Sara. Now here is where the main issue is. At the ending party, Chelsie was standing next to Bill. Sara did not come. Bill is sitting down. During this entire interaction, Bill has his arm around Chelsie. Chelsie is standing really close to him, about next to his side. The look on her face is she's attracted to him. She says something seriously ignorant which Bill responds with "You have to be kidding. You're joking right?" She laughs and asks "what?" to which Bill responds with, "You're lucky you're so beautiful". And when he said that, he looked her up and down, his eyes landed on her lips and the vibe was clearly sexual. The kind of look a man gives a woman at a bar. I was disgusted. She laughed and swayed into him more. They continued talking for a few more minutes with his arm around her and then she moved to go sit and he got up to go somewhere else...

So here's what I'm asking... I feel really bad for Sara who knows none of this. I know what it feels like to not be loved by a spouse or have someone claim love and do the polar opposite and if anything, any talk of marriage should NOT be on the table right now. I could tell leadership, I could tell Emily who is close friends with both, but I don't know if I should. I don't want it to be me to be the reason they break up because I stuck my nose in someone else's business. Or me cause drama because of it...

So I need help... I need advice... What do I do with this? I don't know Sara at all, I've never met her yet.

It's a tough situation. Pray for wisdom. "Brothers, if someone is caught in a trespass, you who are spiritual should restore him with a spirit of gentleness. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted." Galatians 6:1

You could approach it from the point of view that it's a bad look, even if it is innocent. Ask him how he thinks Sara would feel. Something along those lines. You could talk to the leadership, without naming names, and ask for their advice.​

 

[LoProfile]

I think what Jesus taught in Matthew 18:15-17 in addressing an inappropriate lifestyle or iniquitous behavior within the church involves a gradual escalation.
That might be the best way to proceed. I would proceed carefully.

 

[Delvianna]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I've done a bunch of prayer and still going to continue to pray about it. At the moment, I feel led to write him a letter. I tend to do this so I can get all my thoughts down on paper. (I've written him a letter before) Essentially the response I feel led to do right now is, correction in love instead of coming at it from an accusatory stance. I think I know what the underlying problem is as his actions are like a symptom of the problem, so I'm going to address the problem in my letter. Praying always and hopefully he sees my points and understands where I'm coming from.

 

[TheLordIsMyRedeemer]

I want to start out by saying I haven't been in a group/social settings for decades. My spouse has isolated me over the years and previous to that, I constantly was moving, so I don't even know what the protocol for this is.

So in church, there is a man (I'll name him Bill) who is currently "dating" (I'll name her Sara). Sara doesn't really come to church, she comes every once in a while, but they met through a mutual friend (I'll name her Emily) who is a regular. Both Emily and Bill are regulars in the church. Emily's husband and Bill are in security for the church together and are also close friends. About 8 months ago, Bill met Sara. After a few months of talking, they thought that God was drawing them to each other as a couple, and so they decided to be friends to see if they are compatible with the idea of marriage. They gave themselves 1 year to figure this out. A few months ago, Bill claimed it was getting serious. He's fallen in love with her, he has no doubt in his mind that she is the one for him and even gave a story about how some client of his figured out he was taken because of how he acts. (For context, both people are in their 30's).

Fast forward 5 months. Me and my x are out to lunch with Bill. Bill hits on the waitress. Asks her what dessert they have, and if it could be shared by 2 people, she gives a recommendation to which he says he was hoping to share it with her after she said its only portioned for 1 person. She laughed and walked away. He told me about him doing this before because he said he gets a kick out of making people laugh (he used to get bullied growing up and he found if he makes people laugh it eases the tension) but 5 months into a relationship where he says they've picked out wedding rings and know what gifts theyre giving each other, is a hell of a lot different than doing this in the past. Bill noticed I was upset and asked what was up. I told him it was straight up disrespectful to Sara. At first he got defensive said he was just trying to make her laugh, he wouldn't actually follow through with it but I shook my head and said, it's disrespectful. He sat for a minute, agreed and then apologized.

Fast forward 1 month later. We are currently attending a funeral for someone in the church who passed away. In comes (I'll name her Chelsie). Chelsie and Bill are friends. I witnessed Chelsie and Bill flirt 6 months previous just at the start of Bill getting to know Sara. Now here is where the main issue is. At the ending party, Chelsie was standing next to Bill. Sara did not come. Bill is sitting down. During this entire interaction, Bill has his arm around Chelsie. Chelsie is standing really close to him, about next to his side. The look on her face is she's attracted to him. She says something seriously ignorant which Bill responds with "You have to be kidding. You're joking right?" She laughs and asks "what?" to which Bill responds with, "You're lucky you're so beautiful". And when he said that, he looked her up and down, his eyes landed on her lips and the vibe was clearly sexual. The kind of look a man gives a woman at a bar. I was disgusted. She laughed and swayed into him more. They continued talking for a few more minutes with his arm around her and then she moved to go sit and he got up to go somewhere else...

So here's what I'm asking... I feel really bad for Sara who knows none of this. I know what it feels like to not be loved by a spouse or have someone claim love and do the polar opposite and if anything, any talk of marriage should NOT be on the table right now. I could tell leadership, I could tell Emily who is close friends with both, but I don't know if I should. I don't want it to be me to be the reason they break up because I stuck my nose in someone else's business. Or me cause drama because of it...

So I need help... I need advice... What do I do with this? I don't know Sara at all, I've never met her yet.

I think you should eventually speak to Bill privately and let him know that he is sinning by flirting with these other women. Hopefully he will repent. If he is in love with Sara he should be focused on their relationship and not flirting with other women. I think writing a letter is a good idea and will allow you to express your view clearly. May the grace and peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

 

[Churchgoer]

I think you should eventually speak to Bill privately and let him know that he is sinning by flirting with these other women. Hopefully he will repent. If he is in love with Sara he should be focused on their relationship and not flirting with other women. I think writing a letter is a good idea and will allow you to express your view clearly. May the grace and peace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

Better to be man to man conversation.
A brother talk to a brother, probably more effective.

 

[Billyd]

I am going to tell you how I would feel as a man and a woman came to me and accused me of being a flirt. I'd tell her to back off.

You are sitting on a powder keg ready to blow up in your face. Please back off and take your thoughts to God. Just keep praying that God's will be done in the relationship. Your interference will become a gossip topic, and that's the last thing that any relationship needs.

 

[Churchgoer]

I am going to tell you how I would feel as a man and a woman came to me and accused me of being a flirt. I'd tell her to back off.

You are sitting on a powder keg ready to blow up in your face. Please back off and take your thoughts to God. Just keep praying that God's will be done in the relationship. Your interference will become a gossip topic, and that's the last thing that any relationship needs.

Definitely appreciate opinions from man side.
In our church, if a man has questionable behavior, it is brother s duty to step in.
The brothers will not let woman to take on this burden, which I very much appreciate.

From woman side, if girl has inappropriate behavior, other sisters should step in .

 

[Delvianna]

Better to be man to man conversation.
A brother talk to a brother, probably more effective.

I thought about that, but I think I want to try this approach first. Usually with painful wounds, women tend to be more tender about it. So I'm pulling him up on that first to heal, and hoping the actions follow the healing. If he still continues after that, I'll bring it up to his mentor who is also one of the Churches main leaders. I think talking to him twice about it at that point is enough.

 

[Delvianna]

I am going to tell you how I would feel as a man and a woman came to me and accused me of being a flirt. I'd tell her to back off.

You are sitting on a powder keg ready to blow up in your face. Please back off and take your thoughts to God. Just keep praying that God's will be done in the relationship. Your interference will become a gossip topic, and that's the last thing that any relationship needs.

I appreciate your opinion but we are all called to correct in love. If you were to tell someone to "back off", that's pretty aggressive when someone is doing what scripture is calling them to do. Specially when the accusation is warranted.

 

[seoulsearch]

I want to start out by saying I haven't been in a group/social settings for decades. My spouse has isolated me over the years and previous to that, I constantly was moving, so I don't even know what the protocol for this is.

So in church, there is a man (I'll name him Bill) who is currently "dating" (I'll name her Sara). Sara doesn't really come to church, she comes every once in a while, but they met through a mutual friend (I'll name her Emily) who is a regular. Both Emily and Bill are regulars in the church. Emily's husband and Bill are in security for the church together and are also close friends. About 8 months ago, Bill met Sara. After a few months of talking, they thought that God was drawing them to each other as a couple, and so they decided to be friends to see if they are compatible with the idea of marriage. They gave themselves 1 year to figure this out. A few months ago, Bill claimed it was getting serious. He's fallen in love with her, he has no doubt in his mind that she is the one for him and even gave a story about how some client of his figured out he was taken because of how he acts. (For context, both people are in their 30's).

Fast forward 5 months. Me and my x are out to lunch with Bill. Bill hits on the waitress. Asks her what dessert they have, and if it could be shared by 2 people, she gives a recommendation to which he says he was hoping to share it with her after she said its only portioned for 1 person. She laughed and walked away. He told me about him doing this before because he said he gets a kick out of making people laugh (he used to get bullied growing up and he found if he makes people laugh it eases the tension) but 5 months into a relationship where he says they've picked out wedding rings and know what gifts theyre giving each other, is a hell of a lot different than doing this in the past. Bill noticed I was upset and asked what was up. I told him it was straight up disrespectful to Sara. At first he got defensive said he was just trying to make her laugh, he wouldn't actually follow through with it but I shook my head and said, it's disrespectful. He sat for a minute, agreed and then apologized.

Fast forward 1 month later. We are currently attending a funeral for someone in the church who passed away. In comes (I'll name her Chelsie). Chelsie and Bill are friends. I witnessed Chelsie and Bill flirt 6 months previous just at the start of Bill getting to know Sara. Now here is where the main issue is. At the ending party, Chelsie was standing next to Bill. Sara did not come. Bill is sitting down. During this entire interaction, Bill has his arm around Chelsie. Chelsie is standing really close to him, about next to his side. The look on her face is she's attracted to him. She says something seriously ignorant which Bill responds with "You have to be kidding. You're joking right?" She laughs and asks "what?" to which Bill responds with, "You're lucky you're so beautiful". And when he said that, he looked her up and down, his eyes landed on her lips and the vibe was clearly sexual. The kind of look a man gives a woman at a bar. I was disgusted. She laughed and swayed into him more. They continued talking for a few more minutes with his arm around her and then she moved to go sit and he got up to go somewhere else...

So here's what I'm asking... I feel really bad for Sara who knows none of this. I know what it feels like to not be loved by a spouse or have someone claim love and do the polar opposite and if anything, any talk of marriage should NOT be on the table right now. I could tell leadership, I could tell Emily who is close friends with both, but I don't know if I should. I don't want it to be me to be the reason they break up because I stuck my nose in someone else's business. Or me cause drama because of it...

So I need help... I need advice... What do I do with this? I don't know Sara at all, I've never met her yet.

I'm sorry I don't have anything new or constructive to add, but...

If I were Sara, I would want someone to tell me.

And if the situation were flipped -- let's say it was Sara out flirting with waiters and exhibiting this kind of behavior with other men -- wouldn't Bill want to know?

And wouldn't Christian brothers want someone, whether a brother or sister, to let Bill in on this?

I would think yes.

But I've really appreciated reading all the viewpoints that people have expressed.

 

[JohnDB]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I've done a bunch of prayer and still going to continue to pray about it. At the moment, I feel led to write him a letter. I tend to do this so I can get all my thoughts down on paper. (I've written him a letter before) Essentially the response I feel led to do right now is, correction in love instead of coming at it from an accusatory stance. I think I know what the underlying problem is as his actions are like a symptom of the problem, so I'm going to address the problem in my letter. Praying always and hopefully he sees my points and understands where I'm coming from.

Ok....
Hear me out before you go too far.

I understand that this is a church group....you would very much appreciate it if everyone behaved better.
TOTALLY get that...wish for it myself on more occasions than we all would like.

And where YOU see Bill's bad behavior and a few other women (who ought to know better) the one person you know the least about, Sarah, you see as a victim of Bill's. And that may not be as accurate as you think it is.

Are some guys kads? Of course. But you have neglected the thought that for all of Bill's outgoing and fun loving personality he also has really poor boundaries....kinda a schlub for knowing all appropriate social skills. And Sarah, who seems to "unintentionally" hide from perceptive people might just be running a number on ol Bill here that you, nor Bill, are not entirely cognizant of.

In church and other more morally/morality focused social groups they attract a specific type of women. Where there are many who come for the relationships....they also come for the control.
It's a thing that has become more common as narcissists have become more of a majority in our society.

Most guys are really simple creatures...feed them, give them attention, stroke their ego, promise a vision of utopia and they are loyal lapdogs in white shining armor on a valiant steed. And the guys at Seminary have to REALLY watch out for these manipulative creatures. More than one super successful pastor has held a huge secret of how horrible a person his wife truly is. (Just saying)

A truly "biblical" woman us supposedly described in Proverbs 31....I tend to see that as a description of the Bride of Christ myself....but whatever....she may be quiet, soft spoken and all that.....but she also can drive a tent peg through a bad guy's head after smiling at him and feeding him. Vindictiveness is not exactly one of the more well known Spiritual gifts....

Somehow....this Sarah is not meeting Bill's expectations and needs. It may be that you are right and no one woman will ever fulfill Bill's wants and needs....in which case Bill, like so many, has an issue with loving his neighbor. (As well as being a bit of a schlub)

I get it....you dont want to see any of this mess....you want better out of these people....and your heart breaks because you actually care about your church family.

Trouble is that the more you know, the more faith you have, the more omniscient you understand God to be as well as Sovereign and all that....the more fatalistic you become.
Unpleasant at best.

 

[Delvianna]

I'm sorry I don't have anything new or constructive to add, but...

If I were Sara, I would want someone to tell me.

And if the situation were flipped -- let's say it was Sara out flirting with waiters and exhibiting this kind of behavior with other men -- wouldn't Bill want to know?

And wouldn't Christian brothers want someone, whether a brother or sister, to let Bill in on this?

I would think yes.

But I've really appreciated reading all the viewpoints that people have expressed.

Thank you for your opinion, I appreciate it, even if it's nothing new to add

I agree with you. If it were me, I'd want someone to tell me too.

 

[BetterCallPsalms]

If 'Bill' loved her, he wouldn't behave like a child. Bring it up to your pastor and let him handle it.