Advice Needed: Should I get involved?

[ZNP]

In my 30 years in church, it is better not to record private conversations, which will start disrespect, suspicious....
If someone announces to record, we will tell him not to do so. Otherwise the conversation can't continue.
It is a common practice not to record conversations.

In my experience I agree that this should not be done secretly and the only time I am recommending this is when this woman is going to talk to this man privately. I think this has to be done where others can see them and so she needs some protection.

Also, in my experience several times I have gone to the leaders assuming they would support me only to learn later they were the ones involved in the crime (this happened in both the world and in the church). You should not assume that the leadership of the church is not aware of this man's behavior, he did this in public at a funeral, everyone could see.

I was in a church where a leader in the church learned of another leader's sins. This man was then publicly slandered so that anything he would then say would be discredited as "sour grapes" and then kicked out of the assembly and everyone was warned not to talk to him or his wife. The truth did not come out for another few years as more and more of our faithful brothers were excommunicated as they too learned what was going on.

What this woman saw was on display for everyone in the church at that funeral to see, it was serious enough for people to be uncomfortable but not serious enough that it can't be "laughed away". I would not be surprised if the purpose was to flush out those who have a problem with fornication in the church. There are a lot of churches that have been coopted by FreeMasons and I would not put anything past them. Slandering this woman would be the tip of the iceberg.

That is why she must follow the Lord's directions to a T. If she tells others then she is a gossip. If she goes to this man in secret she will be slandered. She has to speak to him directly, one on one, but she must have the entire conversation recorded so that they cannot lie about what was said. And it must be done in public at the church so they can't make any other slanderous accusations.

Luke 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

 

[ZNP]

Pray about it. In my experience the path that leads to the cross is the path we desperately don't want to take and will pray passionately that the Lord would let us take another path. But inwardly we know the Lord is telling us that this is His will and so we must take up our cross and follow Him.

A lot of people pray to know God's will. Usually they know what it is, the word of God is clear, they just wish and are desperately praying for God to change His mind.

Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

 

[Churchgoer]

In my experience I agree that this should not be done secretly and the only time I am recommending this is when this woman is going to talk to this man privately. I think this has to be done where others can see them and so she needs some protection.

Also, in my experience several times I have gone to the leaders assuming they would support me only to learn later they were the ones involved in the crime (this happened in both the world and in the church). You should not assume that the leadership of the church is not aware of this man's behavior, he did this in public at a funeral, everyone could see.

I was in a church where a leader in the church learned of another leader's sins. This man was then publicly slandered so that anything he would then say would be discredited as "sour grapes" and then kicked out of the assembly and everyone was warned not to talk to him or his wife. The truth did not come out for another few years as more and more of our faithful brothers were excommunicated as they too learned what was going on.

What this woman saw was on display for everyone in the church at that funeral to see, it was serious enough for people to be uncomfortable but not serious enough that it can't be "laughed away". I would not be surprised if the purpose was to flush out those who have a problem with fornication in the church. There are a lot of churches that have been coopted by FreeMasons and I would not put anything past them. Slandering this woman would be the tip of the iceberg.

That is why she must follow the Lord's directions to a T. If she tells others then she is a gossip. If she goes to this man in secret she will be slandered. She has to speak to him directly, one on one, but she must have the entire conversation recorded so that they cannot lie about what was said. And it must be done in public at the church so they can't make any other slanderous accusations.

Luke 21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

Totally understand.
Be wise in the Lord. Be alert.
That's the reason I like small church, 30 to 50 people, easy to manage. Everyone knows everyone, kind of.

 

[Delvianna]

There is a very good possibility he will attack her, not physically, but trying to discredit her. If all she has is "she said, he said" it could get very ugly because she is tying her hands behind herself by not talking to others while he can spread a lot of negative rumors about her. That way when the story does get out he'll simply claim she is trying to get back at him.

Another possibility is that the situation between him and the other sister could get very ugly and this woman needs to know someone in the church took a stand because otherwise she could think everyone in the church knew what was going on and simply looked the other way.

As it stands no Pastor or elder is going to excommunicate this guy based on the above story, but what it would do would be to raise their awareness and perhaps avert something. However, if he begins to spread lies about her and she discovers this when she talks to the Pastor the recording could eliminate any credibility he has. Also by telling him you are recording this it is a major deterrent to him lying about what this conversation is about. You want to be in public where others can see you having the conversation. You also want the recording to clearly record that you told him you were recording the conversation.

I appreciate your opinion, but I don't need a recording. There are other witnesses that I can name if necessary. It just seems like I'm the only one willing to say something though and the rest of the people just are used to him being him so to speak. Maybe they aren't aware of the level of seriousness he's discussing marriage with Sara, but regardless, it seems I'm the only one who has said anything about it.

But if it happens again, I will discuss this with his mentor who is 1 of the leadership and pass the baton so to speak and stay out of it. Funny enough, the mentors wife was at the same table and saw. So, he could literally ask his own wife what she thought. But Sara doesn't attend church regularly. I think this entire year she's showed up... three times? So it's just quite possible people aren't aware of the details of his personal life with her.

 

[ZNP]

I appreciate your opinion, but I don't need a recording. There are other witnesses that I can name if necessary. It just seems like I'm the only one willing to say something though and the rest of the people just are used to him being him so to speak. Maybe they aren't aware of the level of seriousness he's discussing marriage with Sara, but regardless, it seems I'm the only one who has said anything about it.

But if it happens again, I will discuss this with his mentor who is 1 of the leadership and pass the baton so to speak and stay out of it. Funny enough, the mentors wife was at the same table and saw. So, he could literally ask his own wife what she thought. But Sara doesn't attend church regularly. I think this entire year she's showed up... three times? So it's just quite possible people aren't aware of the details of his personal life with her.

If there are other witnesses, then don't go alone, bring the other witnesses with you, by all means. Not only will that make it much harder for this person to slander you it will also make it much harder for the leaders of the church to sweep this under the rug. You are not gossiping if they also saw the same thing and were disturbed by it. When you go you can have one spokesman but the others who are with that person need to confirm they saw the same thing and were also bothered by it. If they don't want to talk they can simply nod to agree they saw it and are also bothered.