Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[OMC]

Obviously so, I have well over 30,000 posts by which you can confirm that I do. That is if you want to invest the sweat equity LOL.
So I suggest that you hit the books and get back to me in 5-10 years and we can carry on in a more equitable fashion.

View attachment 295224

View attachment 295225

Saying you have “30,000 posts” and telling someone to “hit the books for 5–10 years” isn’t an argument — it’s an attempt to elevate yourself by volume rather than by substance. Scripture never treats longevity, output, or accumulated posts as proof of accuracy; it treats truth as the measure, and truth is tested by the text itself, not by seniority. If your position is strong, you can defend it without appealing to how long you’ve been online. If it’s weak, 30,000 posts won’t make it stronger. The equitable way to carry on isn’t to wait a decade — it’s to engage the Scripture in front of us right now

 

[cv5]

If nobody had ever told us to understand these verses as a "rapture", we would all naturally understand them as the second coming of Christ.
Rapture theory started at a prophesy conference in 1830 after Margret McDonald "trans-channeled" the idea.

The biblically illiterate famously trot out conspiracy theories to gloss over their vast ignorance in the matter.

The facts however speak for themselves: It is the apostle Paul who was given the full measure of revelation pertaining to the harpazpo. The Christ is the source, Paul is the conduit.

Oh did I mention that the harpazo is a prophetic aspect of the 12 step Hebrew wedding protocol that Jesus is constantly referring to?
Oh yes it is dear friends, yes it is.......

The 12-Step Hebrew Wedding Pattern
1) The Bride Is Chosen by the Father

In ancient Israel, the father of the groom chose the bride.


Spiritual meaning
God the Father chose the Church for His Son before the world began.


“You did not choose Me, but I chose you…” — John 15:16
“He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world…” — Ephesians 1:4

2) The Bride Price Is Paid

The groom paid a mohar (bride price) to redeem the bride.


Spiritual meaning
Jesus paid the price with His blood.


“You were bought with a price.” — 1 Corinthians 6:20

3) The Marriage Covenant (Betrothal) Is Made

The couple drank from a cup of wine sealing the covenant (kiddushin).
They were legally married — though not yet living together.


Spiritual meaning
The New Covenant was sealed at the Last Supper.


“This cup is the new covenant in My blood.” — Luke 22:20

The Church today is betrothed — not yet living with Christ physically.


4) The Bride Is Set Apart

The bride was now consecrated to her groom alone.


Spiritual meaning
The Church is sanctified — set apart for Christ.


“I betrothed you to one husband… Christ.” — 2 Corinthians 11:2

5) The Groom Leaves to Prepare a Place

The groom returned to his father’s house to build a bridal chamber.


He could not return until his father approved the place.


Spiritual meaning
Jesus ascended to Heaven to prepare our dwelling.


“I go to prepare a place for you.” — John 14:2

6) The Bride Waits — Not Knowing the Day or Hour

Only the father decided when the groom could go get his bride.


The bride lived in expectation — always ready.


Spiritual meaning
No one knows when Christ will return.


“No one knows the day or hour…” — Matthew 24:36

7) The Groom Comes With a Shout and a Trumpet

When the father approved, the groom went to fetch the bride.


He came at night with:
• a shout
• a trumpet blast
• a procession


Spiritual meaning
This is the rapture signal.


“The Lord Himself will descend with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God…” — 1 Thessalonians 4:16

8) The Bride Is Taken Away (This Is the Rapture)

The bride was lifted up and carried away to the groom’s house.


She did not walk — she was taken.


Spiritual meaning
The Church is caught up.


“We who are alive… shall be caught up together… to meet the Lord in the air.” — 1 Thessalonians 4:17

This is the rapture — before judgment.


9) The Bride Enters the Bridal Chamber

The couple entered the chuppah (bridal chamber) for about 7 days.


The door was shut.


Spiritual meaning
The Church is in Heaven while Earth goes through the 7-year Tribulation.


“Come… enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you.” — Isaiah 26:20

10) The Marriage Is Consummated

The bride and groom became one.


Spiritual meaning
The Church is permanently united with Christ.


“They are no longer two but one.” — Matthew 19:6

11) The Bride Is Revealed

After the chamber period, the bride appeared publicly.


Spiritual meaning
The Church returns with Christ in glory.


“When Christ appears, you also will appear with Him in glory.” — Colossians 3:4

12) The Marriage Supper

A huge public feast followed.


Spiritual meaning
This is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.


“Blessed are those invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” — Revelation 19:9

Why This Is So Powerful

This wedding model:

• Explains why the Church is removed before judgment
• Matches rapture language exactly
• Explains “no one knows the day or hour”
• Explains the 7-year separation
• Explains why the Church returns with Christ

It is not a metaphor invented later — it is built into Jewish marriage itself, which God designed to be a prophetic blueprint.

 

[cv5]

Yeah many folks forget or simply dismiss that many saints were already resurrected with Christ also which was promised in thier covenant

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12‬ ‭KJV‬

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

But every man in his own order: Christ , the firstfruits;

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:20, 23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. …..These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The old covenant promosed isralites who were faithful a resurrection before it’s end when messiah came


And the New Testament promises all who belong to Christ a resurrection when he returns from heaven

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:51-52‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

…So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown a natural body;

it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body,

and there is a spiritual body.

And as we have borne the image of the earthy,

we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35, 42, 44, 49-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That is an absolute train wreck of an attempt at exegesis.
BTW, the Ezekiel 37 dry bones prophecy has absolutely zero to do with the mystery Church.

 

[cv5]

If nobody had ever told us to understand these verses as a "rapture", we would all naturally understand them as the second coming of Christ.
Rapture theory started at a prophesy conference in 1830 after Margret McDonald "trans-channeled" the idea.

It is always amazing (and shocking) to me to hear the preterists, post-tribbers, mid-tribbers and historicists prattle on, all the while being biblically illiterate. Are they wrong? Yep, they are definitely wrong.
And the dispensationalist futurist premillennialists are always right.

And I can see how @OMC has not matriculated beyond mere words on paper to rightly understand the essential BIBLICAL PATTERNS that permeate Scripture, and how these PATTERNS must be first understood before one can rightly HARMONIZE the entire Bible cover to cover.....

Removal / Translation Types

Enoch

Taken by God before the Flood; clear picture of removal prior to judgment.

Elijah

Caught up into heaven without death; another strong translation type.


Absence from Judgment Scene

Daniel

Not present in Daniel 3; absent while the fiery judgment takes place.


Spared / Marked for Deliverance

Rahab

Identified beforehand and preserved when Jericho falls; distinguished from those under wrath.


Bride / Union Before Crisis

Asenath

Gentile bride given to Joseph before the famine; union before global distress.

Ruth

Redeemed and brought into covenant blessing prior to kingdom establishment.

Rebekah

Called out and united with Isaac before covenant continuation unfolds.

Zipporah

Joined to Moses before the judgments on Egypt.

Abigail

Aligns with David before he assumes kingship and executes judgment.


Positioned / Exalted Before Crisis

Joseph

Elevated before the famine; placed above and ahead of the coming crisis.

Esther

Installed as queen prior to the destruction decree; positioned for deliverance.


Heavenly Call Before Judgment (NT Pattern)

John the Apostle

“Come up here” (Rev 4:1) before the main sequence of judgments; often seen as a type of upward call before wrath unfolds.


Set Apart Before Redemptive Events

Mary

Chosen vessel prior to the unfolding of redemption; set apart in advance.


Tight Summary

This refined list highlights four consistent “no-wrath” patterns:


Removed beforehand → Enoch, Elijah
Absent from the scene → Daniel
Marked and spared → Rahab
United to the redeemer before crisis → Asenath, Ruth, Rebekah, Zipporah, Abigail
Positioned in advance → Joseph, Esther
Called upward before judgment → John

 

[OMC]

It is always amazing (and shocking) to me to hear the preterists, post-tribbers, mid-tribbers and historicists prattle on, all the while being biblically illiterate. Are they wrong? Yep, they are definitely wrong.
And the dispensationalist futurist premillennialists are always right.

And I can see how @OMC has not matriculated beyond mere words on paper to rightly understand the essential BIBLICAL PATTERNS that permeate Scripture, and how these PATTERNS must be first understood before one can rightly HARMONIZE the entire Bible cover to cover.....

Removal / Translation Types

Enoch

Taken by God before the Flood; clear picture of removal prior to judgment.

Elijah

Caught up into heaven without death; another strong translation type.


Absence from Judgment Scene

Daniel

Not present in Daniel 3; absent while the fiery judgment takes place.


Spared / Marked for Deliverance

Rahab

Identified beforehand and preserved when Jericho falls; distinguished from those under wrath.


Bride / Union Before Crisis

Asenath

Gentile bride given to Joseph before the famine; union before global distress.

Ruth

Redeemed and brought into covenant blessing prior to kingdom establishment.

Rebekah

Called out and united with Isaac before covenant continuation unfolds.

Zipporah

Joined to Moses before the judgments on Egypt.

Abigail

Aligns with David before he assumes kingship and executes judgment.


Positioned / Exalted Before Crisis

Joseph

Elevated before the famine; placed above and ahead of the coming crisis.

Esther

Installed as queen prior to the destruction decree; positioned for deliverance.


Heavenly Call Before Judgment (NT Pattern)

John the Apostle

“Come up here” (Rev 4:1) before the main sequence of judgments; often seen as a type of upward call before wrath unfolds.


Set Apart Before Redemptive Events

Mary

Chosen vessel prior to the unfolding of redemption; set apart in advance.


Tight Summary

This refined list highlights four consistent “no-wrath” patterns:


Removed beforehand → Enoch, Elijah
Absent from the scene → Daniel
Marked and spared → Rahab
United to the redeemer before crisis → Asenath, Ruth, Rebekah, Zipporah, Abigail
Positioned in advance → Joseph, Esther
Called upward before judgment → John

Your entire “pattern list” looks impressive until you actually compare it with the patterns Jesus Himself uses — and the moment you do, the whole thing collapses.
Every example you listed (Enoch, Elijah, Daniel, Rahab, Asenath, Ruth, Rebekah, Zipporah, Abigail, Joseph, Esther, Mary, John) is a narrative detail, not a prophetic pattern Jesus ever applies to the end times.
Jesus gives two patterns — Noah and Lot — and in both cases the ones taken are the wicked swept away in judgment (Gen 7:23; Luke 17:29).
That is the only pattern Jesus authorizes for His return. Your list is not exegesis; it is a collage of unrelated stories forced into a pre‑trib mold.
Enoch and Elijah are not “rapture types”; Daniel’s absence in chapter 3 is not a prophecy; Rahab is not a removal; Asenath, Ruth, Rebekah, Zipporah, Abigail, Joseph, Esther, and Mary are not eschatological templates; and John’s “come up here” is a vision command, not a church evacuation.
None of these are used by Jesus, Paul, Peter, or John as end‑time patterns.
The only actual biblical pattern for the separation at Christ’s coming is the one Jesus gives — the wicked taken in judgment, the righteous left alive — and that alone overturns your entire typology.

 

[OMC]

It is always amazing (and shocking) to me to hear the preterists, post-tribbers, mid-tribbers and historicists prattle on, all the while being biblically illiterate. Are they wrong? Yep, they are definitely wrong.
And the dispensationalist futurist premillennialists are always right.

And I can see how @OMC has not matriculated beyond mere words on paper to rightly understand the essential BIBLICAL PATTERNS that permeate Scripture, and how these PATTERNS must be first understood before one can rightly HARMONIZE the entire Bible cover to cover.....

Removal / Translation Types

Enoch

Taken by God before the Flood; clear picture of removal prior to judgment.

Elijah

Caught up into heaven without death; another strong translation type.


Absence from Judgment Scene

Daniel

Not present in Daniel 3; absent while the fiery judgment takes place.


Spared / Marked for Deliverance

Rahab

Identified beforehand and preserved when Jericho falls; distinguished from those under wrath.


Bride / Union Before Crisis

Asenath

Gentile bride given to Joseph before the famine; union before global distress.

Ruth

Redeemed and brought into covenant blessing prior to kingdom establishment.

Rebekah

Called out and united with Isaac before covenant continuation unfolds.

Zipporah

Joined to Moses before the judgments on Egypt.

Abigail

Aligns with David before he assumes kingship and executes judgment.


Positioned / Exalted Before Crisis

Joseph

Elevated before the famine; placed above and ahead of the coming crisis.

Esther

Installed as queen prior to the destruction decree; positioned for deliverance.


Heavenly Call Before Judgment (NT Pattern)

John the Apostle

“Come up here” (Rev 4:1) before the main sequence of judgments; often seen as a type of upward call before wrath unfolds.


Set Apart Before Redemptive Events

Mary

Chosen vessel prior to the unfolding of redemption; set apart in advance.


Tight Summary

This refined list highlights four consistent “no-wrath” patterns:


Removed beforehand → Enoch, Elijah
Absent from the scene → Daniel
Marked and spared → Rahab
United to the redeemer before crisis → Asenath, Ruth, Rebekah, Zipporah, Abigail
Positioned in advance → Joseph, Esther
Called upward before judgment → John

Religious traditionalism is a system where human tradition and institutional authority are elevated above Scripture, treating inherited customs as the lens through which God’s Word must be interpreted. It assumes long‑standing teachings or rulings cannot be questioned, even when they contradict the plain meaning of Scripture. Jesus confronted this directly in Mark 7:6–13, exposing how tradition can quietly replace obedience to God. In short, religious traditionalism is any system where tradition stands over Scripture instead of submitting to it.

 

[cv5]

Your entire “pattern list” looks impressive until you actually compare it with the patterns Jesus Himself uses — and the moment you do, the whole thing collapses.
Every example you listed (Enoch, Elijah, Daniel, Rahab, Asenath, Ruth, Rebekah, Zipporah, Abigail, Joseph, Esther, Mary, John) is a narrative detail, not a prophetic pattern Jesus ever applies to the end times.
Jesus gives two patterns — Noah and Lot — and in both cases the ones taken are the wicked swept away in judgment (Gen 7:23; Luke 17:29).
That is the only pattern Jesus authorizes for His return. Your list is not exegesis; it is a collage of unrelated stories forced into a pre‑trib mold.
Enoch and Elijah are not “rapture types”; Daniel’s absence in chapter 3 is not a prophecy; Rahab is not a removal; Asenath, Ruth, Rebekah, Zipporah, Abigail, Joseph, Esther, and Mary are not eschatological templates; and John’s “come up here” is a vision command, not a church evacuation.
None of these are used by Jesus, Paul, Peter, or John as end‑time patterns.
The only actual biblical pattern for the separation at Christ’s coming is the one Jesus gives — the wicked taken in judgment, the righteous left alive — and that alone overturns your entire typology.

Frankly, when I hear the clumsy blundering protestations of the detractors, I instantly realize that I have won the wisdom lottery.
Lucky me huh?

Pro 1:5
A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
Pro 1:6
To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
Pro 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pro 4:7
The first thing is wisdom -- get wisdom, And with all thy getting get understanding.

Dan 12:10
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

 

[OMC]

Frankly, when I hear the clumsy blundering protestations of the detractors, I instantly realize that I have won the wisdom lottery.
Lucky me huh?

Pro 1:5
A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
Pro 1:6
To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
Pro 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pro 4:7
The first thing is wisdom -- get wisdom, And with all thy getting get understanding.

Dan 12:10
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

The posture of that comment is doing more damage than the theology. You quote Proverbs and Daniel as if they authorize boasting, but every one of those passages cuts against the spirit you’re displaying.
Proverbs 1:5 says a wise man hears and increases learning — not that he congratulates himself for “winning the wisdom lottery.” Proverbs 1:7 says fools despise instruction — meaning the moment you treat correction as beneath you, you’ve stepped into the wrong category.
Proverbs 4:7 says “get wisdom,” not “announce you already have it.”
And Daniel 12:10 doesn’t give you permission to call your detractors wicked; it describes the moral divide at the end, not the tone of debate in the present. Scripture allows rebuke, but never self‑exaltation.
The wise don’t declare themselves wise — they tremble, listen, and let the Word judge them.

 

[cv5]

The posture of that comment is doing more damage than the theology. You quote Proverbs and Daniel as if they authorize boasting, but every one of those passages cuts against the spirit you’re displaying.
Proverbs 1:5 says a wise man hears and increases learning — not that he congratulates himself for “winning the wisdom lottery.” Proverbs 1:7 says fools despise instruction — meaning the moment you treat correction as beneath you, you’ve stepped into the wrong category.
Proverbs 4:7 says “get wisdom,” not “announce you already have it.”
And Daniel 12:10 doesn’t give you permission to call your detractors wicked; it describes the moral divide at the end, not the tone of debate in the present. Scripture allows rebuke, but never self‑exaltation.
The wise don’t declare themselves wise — they tremble, listen, and let the Word judge them.

Well then listen to this intentional Biblical TYPE and get wisdom. Or not. Your choice.
You may go right ahead and deny it all and then declare that Christ never authorized any of this to your folly if you wish.

BTW, not only did Christ facilitate the writing of this, He also superintended all of the remarkable circumstances that created this scenario for our edification. All of this is in fact a DIVINE WATERMARK and future looking prophecy as well.

Joseph as a Type of Christ

The similarities between their lives are numerous, focusing on their rejection, suffering, and eventual exaltation:

The Beloved Son:
Both were the specially loved sons of their fathers.

The Rejection:
Joseph was sold by his brothers for twenty pieces of silver; Jesus was betrayed by Judas for thirty.
The Descent and Ascent: Joseph went from the pit and the prison to the right hand of Pharaoh; Jesus descended into death and was resurrected to the right hand of God.

The Savior of the World:
Joseph provided bread to a starving world; Jesus is described as the "Bread of Life" who saves the world from spiritual famine.

Asenath as a Type of the Church:
Asenath, the Egyptian bride given to Joseph during his time of rejection by his brothers, represents the Gentile Bride (The Church)

The Period of Absence:
Joseph took a Gentile bride while he was "dead" to his brothers and separated from his kinsmen. Similarly, the Church is gathered during the period between Christ's first and second comings while Israel, as a nation, has largely rejected Him.

Sharing in Glory:
Just as Asenath shared in Joseph’s royal status and Egyptian exaltation, the Church is described as the "Bride of Christ," sharing in His inheritance and glory.

Reconciliation as a Type of the Second Coming

The emotional reunion in Genesis 45 is often viewed as a blueprint for the future reconciliation of Israel at the Second Coming:

Recognition:
Joseph’s brothers did not recognize him at first; they saw only a powerful Egyptian lord. It was only when Joseph revealed himself ("I am Joseph") that they knew him. This mirrors the prophecy in Zechariah 12:10, where it is said they will "look on me, the one they have pierced."

Repentance and Grace:
The brothers were terrified of judgment, but Joseph offered forgiveness and provision instead of retribution. This typifies the "National Repentance" of Israel when they recognize their Messiah.

Family Reunited:
The reconciliation leads to the entire family of Jacob being brought into a land of plenty (Goshen), mirroring the Millennial Kingdom or the final restoration of the people.

Further Typology
Other scholars often add the role of the Pharaoh (representing God the Father) and the Silver Cup (representing testing or judgment) to this model.

 

[OMC]

Well then listen to this intentional Biblical TYPE and get wisdom. Or not. Your choice.
You may go right ahead and deny it all and then declare that Christ never authorized any of this to your folly if you wish.

BTW, not only did Christ facilitate the writing of this, He also superintended all of the remarkable circumstances that created this scenario for our edification. All of this is in fact a DIVINE WATERMARK and future looking prophecy as well.

Joseph as a Type of Christ

The similarities between their lives are numerous, focusing on their rejection, suffering, and eventual exaltation:

The Beloved Son:
Both were the specially loved sons of their fathers.

The Rejection:
Joseph was sold by his brothers for twenty pieces of silver; Jesus was betrayed by Judas for thirty.
The Descent and Ascent: Joseph went from the pit and the prison to the right hand of Pharaoh; Jesus descended into death and was resurrected to the right hand of God.

The Savior of the World:
Joseph provided bread to a starving world; Jesus is described as the "Bread of Life" who saves the world from spiritual famine.

Asenath as a Type of the Church:
Asenath, the Egyptian bride given to Joseph during his time of rejection by his brothers, represents the Gentile Bride (The Church)

The Period of Absence:
Joseph took a Gentile bride while he was "dead" to his brothers and separated from his kinsmen. Similarly, the Church is gathered during the period between Christ's first and second comings while Israel, as a nation, has largely rejected Him.

Sharing in Glory:
Just as Asenath shared in Joseph’s royal status and Egyptian exaltation, the Church is described as the "Bride of Christ," sharing in His inheritance and glory.

Reconciliation as a Type of the Second Coming

The emotional reunion in Genesis 45 is often viewed as a blueprint for the future reconciliation of Israel at the Second Coming:

Recognition:
Joseph’s brothers did not recognize him at first; they saw only a powerful Egyptian lord. It was only when Joseph revealed himself ("I am Joseph") that they knew him. This mirrors the prophecy in Zechariah 12:10, where it is said they will "look on me, the one they have pierced."

Repentance and Grace:
The brothers were terrified of judgment, but Joseph offered forgiveness and provision instead of retribution. This typifies the "National Repentance" of Israel when they recognize their Messiah.

Family Reunited:
The reconciliation leads to the entire family of Jacob being brought into a land of plenty (Goshen), mirroring the Millennial Kingdom or the final restoration of the people.

Further Typology
Other scholars often add the role of the Pharaoh (representing God the Father) and the Silver Cup (representing testing or judgment) to this model.

Your entire Joseph/Asenath typology collapses the moment you apply the actual biblical rules for typology instead of free‑association.
Joseph is a legitimate type of Christ — Scripture itself hints at this through patterns of suffering → exaltation → salvation.
But the moment you extend the typology beyond what Scripture authorizes, you stop doing typology and start doing creative allegory.
None of the claims you make about Asenath, the Church, Israel’s national repentance, the millennium, or the second coming are ever made by Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, or the prophets.
They never use Joseph’s marriage, Joseph’s Egyptian status, Joseph’s timing, or Joseph’s reconciliation as eschatological templates. You are importing a system, not extracting a pattern.

 

[cv5]

The posture of that comment is doing more damage than the theology. You quote Proverbs and Daniel as if they authorize boasting, but every one of those passages cuts against the spirit you’re displaying.
Proverbs 1:5 says a wise man hears and increases learning — not that he congratulates himself for “winning the wisdom lottery.” Proverbs 1:7 says fools despise instruction — meaning the moment you treat correction as beneath you, you’ve stepped into the wrong category.
Proverbs 4:7 says “get wisdom,” not “announce you already have it.”
And Daniel 12:10 doesn’t give you permission to call your detractors wicked; it describes the moral divide at the end, not the tone of debate in the present. Scripture allows rebuke, but never self‑exaltation.
The wise don’t declare themselves wise — they tremble, listen, and let the Word judge them.

Are you disgruntled against these gifts of the spirit? Because it sure sounds like you are.
And yes, these many Biblical types (that you stridently and foolishly deny) are part and parcel
of the MYSTERY and KNOWLEDGE OF HIS WILL.
And I have been blessed with both the knowledge of it contained in these many TYPES, and the wisdom to see them for what they really are.
So don't blame me for the gifts so bequeathed, rather, pray that you might receive likewise

1Co 12:8
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

Eph 1:8
Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph 1:9
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Col 1:9
For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

 

[OMC]

Are you disgruntled against these gifts of the spirit? Because it sure sounds like you are.
And yes, these many Biblical types (that you stridently and foolishly deny) are part and parcel
of the MYSTERY and KNOWLEDGE OF HIS WILL.
And I have been blessed with both the knowledge of it contained in these many TYPES, and the wisdom to see them for what they really are.
So don't blame me for the gifts so bequeathed, rather, pray that you might receive likewise

1Co 12:8
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

Eph 1:8
Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph 1:9
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Col 1:9
For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

What you just wrote reveals something Scripture warns about far more than it celebrates — the temptation to treat one’s own interpretations as spiritual gifts.
You’re not defending the Spirit’s gifts; you’re defending your certainty about your system, and then retrofitting verses to sanctify that certainty.
Paul never uses 1 Corinthians 12:8, Ephesians 1:8–9, or Colossians 1:9 to authorize someone to declare, “I have wisdom and knowledge; you don’t.”
In fact, the very passages you quoted define wisdom as receiving, listening, being taught, and being filled, not announcing one’s superiority. The Spirit gives gifts, but He never gives anyone permission to treat their conclusions as untouchable or to imply that disagreement equals spiritual deficiency.
When someone begins to fear being wrong more than fearing God, they start using “mystery,” “wisdom,” and “knowledge” as shields rather than invitations. The wise do not proclaim their wisdom; they tremble at the Word and let it correct them.

 

[cv5]

I am pleased to hear that, because I think 2 stage rapture is nonsense too.
I would also chuck out the future 70th week of Daniel and 7 year tribulation.
Biblically illiterate nonsense.
That leaves only the resurrection of all, righteous and wicked, when Jesus comes.

Oh before I forget, speaking of DIVINE WATERMARKS, should you actually desire to know and understand the harpazo, spend a few months (or years) reading everything that our dear friend and bible scholar @TheDivineWatermark has to say on the topic.

If you are actually serious that is. If not or if you choose to remain a spectator, then do nothing.

TheDivineWatermark​

Well-known member

• Posts 11,008
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[cv5]

What you just wrote reveals something Scripture warns about far more than it celebrates — the temptation to treat one’s own interpretations as spiritual gifts.
You’re not defending the Spirit’s gifts; you’re defending your certainty about your system, and then retrofitting verses to sanctify that certainty.
Paul never uses 1 Corinthians 12:8, Ephesians 1:8–9, or Colossians 1:9 to authorize someone to declare, “I have wisdom and knowledge; you don’t.”
In fact, the very passages you quoted define wisdom as receiving, listening, being taught, and being filled, not announcing one’s superiority. The Spirit gives gifts, but He never gives anyone permission to treat their conclusions as untouchable or to imply that disagreement equals spiritual deficiency.
When someone begins to fear being wrong more than fearing God, they start using “mystery,” “wisdom,” and “knowledge” as shields rather than invitations. The wise do not proclaim their wisdom; they tremble at the Word and let it correct them.

Really? Well then by your own standard of measure, you had best FEAR and HUMBLE YOURSELF and recognize your beggarly state and find wisdom or at lease receive it by those who already have it......

 

[OMC]

Really? Well then by your own standard of measure, you had best FEAR and HUMBLE YOURSELF and recognize your beggarly state and find wisdom or at lease receive it by those who already have it......

You speak as though your certainty were a spiritual gift, but Scripture shows that the man who fears losing an argument more than fearing the Lord has already stepped away from wisdom

 

[cv5]

You speak as though your certainty were a spiritual gift, but Scripture shows that the man who fears losing an argument more than fearing the Lord has already stepped away from wisdom

Losing an argument? Who lost an argument?
Certainly not me. Its been one grand slam after another friend.

You do realize that some of us actually DO know what we are talking about. Right?

A little friendly advice: drop the board referee life coach act. Its a waste ink.
Nobody cares about me all that much and we certainly don't need another hall monitor around here.

 

[OMC]

Losing an argument? Who lost an argument?
Certainly not me. Its been one grand slam after another friend.

You do realize that some of us actually DO know what we are talking about. Right?

A little friendly advice: drop the board referee life coach act. Its a waste ink.
Nobody cares about me all that much and we certainly don't need another hall monitor around here.

What you just wrote is not strength — it’s the classic reflex of someone who feels their footing slipping and tries to recover by swagger. When you say, “Losing an argument? Who lost? Certainly not me… grand slam after grand slam… some of us actually DO know what we’re talking about… drop the referee act… nobody cares…” you’re not defending truth; you’re defending ego. And ego always talks louder when it’s afraid.

Here’s the reality I see: a man confident in the truth doesn’t need to announce his victories, doesn’t need to belittle others, and doesn’t need to pre‑emptively declare that “nobody cares.” That tone is not the fruit of wisdom; it’s the fruit of someone who fears being wrong more than fearing God. The wise man in Proverbs listens, weighs, tests, and answers with calm clarity. The insecure man mocks, postures, and tries to win by volume.

I’m not here to be a hall monitor. I’m here to keep the conversation tethered to Scripture rather than bravado. And when bravado starts steering the ship, I’m going to say so plainly. You don’t need to fear losing an argument — you need to fear the moment when your confidence stops being rooted in the Word and starts being rooted in your own performance.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If nobody had ever told us to understand these verses as a "rapture", we would all naturally understand them as the second coming of Christ.
Rapture theory started at a prophesy conference in 1830 after Margret McDonald "trans-channeled" the idea.

“these verses as a "rapture", we would all naturally understand them as the second coming of Christ.”

exactly there’s absolutely no support in scripture for the pre trib “ rapture “ only Jesus gathering his people when he returns from heaven .

your exactly correct it’s the false teachings beforehand it creates an issue when we learn what’s really there but

False teachers were one of the dire warnings to avoid in the nt the reason is what you’re saying . Those things introduce ideas that aren’t there and often we trust the person telling us that they know ……

accepting the false things makes the true things look wrong

 

[Pilgrimshope]

When I say Matthew 22 is not the interpretive key to Revelation 19, I’m not giving you my opinion — I’m following the text’s own categories. Revelation 19 is not a parable, not an analogy, and not an invitation scene. It is a vision describing the consummation of redemption, and the people at the marriage supper are already redeemed, already glorified, already victorious. That’s not my imagination; that’s the context of Revelation 19:1–8. The parable in Matthew 22 deals with the invitation, the rejection, and the widening of the call. Revelation 19 deals with the fulfillment — the union completed, the bride prepared, the celebration of those who already responded. Those are two different genres, two different moments, and two different theological functions.

I agree with you that Revelation is rooted in the OT — I’m not denying that. But being rooted in the OT doesn’t mean every parable Jesus told becomes a decoder ring for every symbol in Revelation. The OT background for Revelation 19 is Isaiah 25, Hosea 2, and the marriage‑covenant restoration themes — not the parable of the wedding invitation in Matthew 22. So when I distinguish the parable from the vision, I’m not separating Scripture from Scripture; I’m respecting the categories Scripture itself gives me. The parable illustrates the call. The apocalypse describes the consummation. Those are not the same moment, and the text never treats them as interchangeable

Ahh so share the scriptures you’re claiming to understand without it being your opinion .so far I just see you telling everyone thier wrong but you aren’t supporting anything you say or adress any scriptires plainly saying the opposite

 

[OMC]

Ahh so share the scriptures you’re claiming to understand without it being your opinion .so far I just see you telling everyone thier wrong but you aren’t supporting anything you say or adress any scriptires plainly saying the opposite

I see scripture quoted in many places, so which verses are you referring to?