Replacement theology? Yes or No.
- Thread starter Gideon300
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Your passive-aggressive domination psy-op is nauseatingly obvious.
Nobody wants it, nobody needs it around here. So do everyone a big favor and drop this thespian melodrama.
Since when is it not wise to rightly understand the mystery of God's will so declared in the manifold types shadows and patterns that He provided?
Do you realize that the Mo'edim PATTERN is filled to overflowing with eschatological wisdom and knowledge?
[Col 2:16-17 KJV]
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.
Here is an actual Scriptural defense:
Before you issue another Papal bull declaring that Jesus did not "authorize" the 12 step Hebrew betrothal pattern, allow me to say that in fact Christ Jesus created that very wedding pattern, superintended it thru the ages, and then He Himself fulfilled it to perfection.
Yes,there are far too many thespians, hall monitors and Keystone cops around here. But far too few avid students of Scripture determined to obtain wisdom and knowledge.
“Luke places Jesus inside the Temple, speaking publicly before He ever departs.”
Yeah you got me there …..i was referring to Luke 21 . the point was Luke wasn’t saying anything …..they’re all quoting Jesus and Jesus is talking about the same subject anyways in the temple there are many other places he and also the apostles speak of the same subjects …… it doesn’t contradict it lines up and explains itself in the scripture ….
it kind of all says the same things if you follow progressively the ot it’s not confusing god foretold what would happen before it did then it did
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; ( this is why the Jews have suffered so much throughout history ) so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods. Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.”
Deuteronomy 31:16-19 KJV
If you follow the story after Moses dies you see that the lord was correct that’s what happens repeatedly he promises to restore them they obey for a moment they turn away to other gods he crushes them they cry out for help he repents and restores them with a prophet ….. they agree to obey …. Later they turn away to another god , he gets angry , warns them that he’s about to recompense all the curses in the law upon them
When I’m saying this stuff I’m also providing you scripture
“Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: and they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.”
Deuteronomy 28:45-46 KJV
To not acknowledge what god told them would happen if they broke his covenant, which they did , is what I’m not getting. To simply say that’s not true doesn’t hold water it’s repeated many times .
But again israel had been given this promise even after that happened ……
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
Jeremiah 31:31-32 KJV
israel was cirsed by the old covenant when they broke it
“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
Deuteronomy 30:15-19 KJV
they didn’t choose life they broke his covenant and were cirsed by the hundreds of perpetual curses in it regarding the land covenant
god is good however and loves israel and humanity itself so he fulfilled the old covenant cirses but provided israel and humanity repentance and belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ unto salvation from the curse of sin and death …..
israels lord is Jesus he is in heaven thier temple is in heaven and the sacrifice has already been made by the high priest himself Jerusalem is in heaven and the inheritance of the faithful is a new creation that won’t be corrupted with sin and death
This is the inheritance of God in Christ for former Jew and gentile alike and the promise to his people beginning with israel as the gospel did
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.”
Revelation 21:1-7 KJV
There’s nothing of glory on this earth but those who bear his spirit but he’s prepared wonders for those who wait upon him
You have poured out a great deal of Scripture—and rightly so—but you have also woven those Scriptures into a conclusion that the text itself does not actually make. So let me walk with you through what you’ve said, not to dismiss your zeal, but to separate what God actually said from what you are inferring.
First, when you say “Luke wasn’t saying anything—they’re all quoting Jesus,” I must answer: I cannot let you flatten the Gospel writers like that. Luke is not a stenographer. He is a Spirit‑carried historian who places Jesus in specific locations, speaking at specific moments, for specific reasons. When Luke places Jesus inside the Temple in Luke 21, he is not merely repeating generic teaching; he is anchoring the discourse in the very place Jesus had just declared would be destroyed. That matters. I cannot treat that as incidental. The Spirit did not waste ink.
Now, regarding your long recounting of Israel’s covenant-breaking, I agree with every verse you quoted. I affirm every curse God warned of. I acknowledge every cycle of rebellion, judgment, repentance, and restoration. But here is where I must speak plainly: you are taking the covenant curses and making them the controlling lens for every prophetic text—including those that do not speak of covenant curses at all. That is where I must challenge you.
When Moses says Israel will break the covenant, I affirm it.When Moses says God will hide His face, I affirm it.When Moses says curses will fall, I affirm it.
But Moses never said, “Therefore Israel will never again have a temple.”Moses never said, “Therefore all future temple language is spiritual only.”Moses never said, “Therefore Jerusalem is now only heavenly.”
Those are your conclusions, not Moses’.
You then move to Jeremiah 31, and again, I affirm the text. Israel broke the covenant. God promised a new one. But Jeremiah never said, “The new covenant cancels all future dealings with Israel on earth.” He never said, “The new covenant eliminates any future earthly restoration.” He never said, “The new covenant replaces Jerusalem with heaven.” Those are theological deductions—not prophetic statements.
Then you say Israel was “cursed by the old covenant,” and I agree. But you then leap to: “Therefore their temple is in heaven, their Jerusalem is in heaven, their inheritance is only the new creation.” Student, I must speak with Scripture’s own severity: you are skipping the prophets. You are skipping Zechariah. You are skipping Ezekiel. You are skipping Jesus’ own words about Jerusalem’s future. You are skipping Paul’s statements about Israel’s future mercy. You are skipping Revelation’s earthly judgments before the new creation ever arrives.
You are taking the end of the story (Revelation 21) and using it to erase the middle of the story (everything the prophets said would happen before Revelation 21).
I cannot let you do that.
Yes, the new creation is the final inheritance.Yes, the heavenly Jerusalem descends.Yes, the curse is removed.
But none of that cancels what God said would happen before that day.
When you say, “There’s nothing of glory on this earth but those who bear His Spirit,” I must answer: that is true now—but it is not the final word. The prophets speak of glory returning to Zion. Jesus speaks of Jerusalem’s future redemption. Paul speaks of Israel’s future fullness. John speaks of judgments that occur on earth before the new creation descends.
So I say this in one clear sentence: You are right about Israel’s past, but you are collapsing Israel’s future into the final state, and Scripture does not do that.
The entire millenial age consists of King Jesus abiding on His throne in Jerusalem while His covenant people Israel finally fulfill their original mandate as preachers and priests to the gentiles.
Did you somehow skip over this entire 1000 year new government dispensation?
[Zec 14:16-19 KJV]
16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
This is off topic but what's your opinion on water coming out of a rock?Do you take everything literally other than the obvious such as a beast rising up out of the sea?
If there's a symbolic reference such as the sound of rushing water in Revelation 14 or peals of thunder,does that just mean water and thunder,and nothing else to you?
When I read about water coming out of a rock, I take it literally because the text presents it as a literal miracle. Moses struck a rock, and God brought forth water. Nothing in the passage signals symbolism. Nothing in the context suggests metaphor. It is reported as an event, not a vision. So I treat it as an event. Literal narrative is literal unless the text itself tells me otherwise. I do not “spiritualize” historical acts of God. If the Bible says God split the sea, fed Israel with manna, or raised the dead, I take those as real acts because the text presents them as real acts.
But when I read a beast rising out of the sea, I do not take that literally because the text itself tells me I am in a vision. Daniel and John both say they “saw” symbolic creatures. The beasts have multiple heads, horns, crowns, and speak blasphemies. The text itself signals symbolism. The genre is apocalyptic. The imagery is visionary. So I treat it as symbolic because the Bible tells me it is symbolic. I do not force literalism where the text itself uses symbols.
When I read the sound of rushing water in Revelation 14, I do not say, “That is only water.” John is describing the sound of heavenly worship, and he uses earthly analogies to communicate overwhelming power. When he hears peals of thunder, he is not describing a weather report; he is describing the voice of God or the roar of heavenly praise. These are symbolic descriptions, but they are symbolic descriptions of real things. The symbols point to realities greater than the symbols themselves. Thunder is not “just thunder.” Water is not “just water.” They are metaphors chosen by the Spirit to communicate intensity, majesty, and awe.
So here is the rule I follow as a Scriptural Advocate:I take literal narrative literally, and symbolic visions symbolically—but I never treat symbols as empty or meaningless. Literal events are real.Symbolic visions point to real truths.The text itself tells me which is which.
I do not decide what is literal or symbolic based on my preference. I let the genre, the context, and the author’s own signals tell me how to read it. Water from a rock is literal because Exodus presents it as history. A beast from the sea is symbolic because Revelation presents it as a vision. Thunder in heaven is symbolic language describing real heavenly power. The Bible is not confusing when I let the Bible tell me how to read the Bible.
CC: @HeIsHere , @Lovette , @Bible_Locket
Did you somehow skip over this entire 1000 year newly formed Kingdom government dispensation?
Do you have an answer to this?
No. And understand that this miniscule treatment could be expanded such that a lifetime could be expended upon it.
[Zec 14:16-19 KJV]
16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Did you somehow skip over this entire 1000 year newly formed Kingdom government dispensation?
Do you have an answer to this?
No. And understand that this miniscule treatment could be expanded such that a lifetime could be expended upon it.
[Zec 14:16-19 KJV]
16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Now here is a saint who was surely the recipient of the spiritual gifts of wisdom and knowledge.
I commend you to her. I urge you to be wise and listen.
Ada R. Habershon: books, biography, latest update
Follow Ada R. Habershon and explore their bibliography from Amazon's Ada R. Habershon Author Page.
www.amazon.ca
Ada R. Habershon is not part of a world system because her work is explicitly Scripture‑centered, Christ‑focused, and text‑driven, without appealing to tradition, philosophy, mysticism, politics, cultural trends, or commercial motives. You should read it. Because nothing you have brought to the table even comes close to what that sisters strict Scripture‑centered writings has brought to the world.Now here is a saint who was surely the recipient of the spiritual gifts of wisdom and knowledge.
I commend you to her. I urge you to be wise and listen.
Ada R. Habershon: books, biography, latest update
Follow Ada R. Habershon and explore their bibliography from Amazon's Ada R. Habershon Author Page.www.amazon.ca
View attachment 295244
Once again you spend much wind explaining your opinion why someone else is wrong and don’t have any support for anything you’re saying. And still haven’t addressed those scriptures you requested heres you …
“So I say this in one clear sentence: You are right about Israel’s past, but you are collapsing Israel’s future into the final state, and Scripture does not do that.”
heres me “ Israel broke thier covenant and became cursed by it like god said would happen .
“Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: and they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.”
Deuteronomy 28:45-46 KJV
then you “ your diminishing Israel’s future scriptire doesnt ..”
then me …. God promised israel the messiah to redeem them and raise them up with a new covenant not according to the old one they broke “
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
Jeremiah 31:31-32 KJV
and again me “ Israel’s inheritance and blessing is in Christ and what they were promised isn’t the land on this earth it’s better it’s what god was promising them long long ago after they broke the covenant and cursed the earth
“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
Isaiah 24:5-6, 20 KJV
“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.”
Isaiah 65:17-18
Then you again “ that’s wrong your diminishing israel and scripture doesn’t do that.
I don’t have time for “Who’s on first ? “ if you have any scripture to explain why that’s all wrong be my guest
“Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”
Isaiah 55:1, 3-4, 6-8 KJV
“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
Matthew 1:1 KJV
Brother, everything you quoted about Israel’s judgment is true—God said,
“Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee… till thou be destroyed… and they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever” (Deut. 28:45–46), and everything you quoted about the new covenant is true
“I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah… which my covenant they brake” (Jer. 31:31–32), and everything you quoted about the new creation is true—
“The earth also is defiled… broken the everlasting covenant… the earth shall reel… and shall fall, and not rise again” (Isa. 24:5–6, 20), and “For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth… I create Jerusalem a rejoicing” (Isa. 65:17–18);
but none of those verses say God has ended Israel’s future as a people, nor that Israel’s promises dissolve into a purely spiritual inheritance, because Paul explicitly says,
“Blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved… for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins” (Rom. 11:25–27), and he anchors that promise in God’s unchanging commitment:
“For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance” (Rom. 11:29). The same Isaiah who speaks of the new heavens and new earth also says,
“And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’s house shall be established… and all nations shall flow unto it… for out of Zion shall go forth the law” (Isa. 2:2–3), and again,
“Arise, shine… and the Gentiles shall come to thy light” (Isa. 60:1–3).
So yes—Israel was cursed under the old covenant, yes—Israel receives the new covenant in Christ, yes—the final inheritance is in the new creation, but no—none of those texts erase Israel’s future; Scripture holds both realities together: a judged Israel now, and a restored Israel in God’s future mercy
ROFL. It's been re-read multiple times.....by me. And this remarkable little volume is now residing on my bookshelf in its rightful place of honor.
Furthermore, my varied discourses here have much to do with Habershon's exquisitely introspective tomes.
Truthfully, the TYPES and PATTERNS are crucial to rightly harmonizing ALL of Scripture.
You may be trammeled and ossified in your surfacic dabbling with words on a page bereft of their broad vista of relevance and import.
But don't think that others enjoy your cozy little cage.
You are so many levels of contradiction I can't even keep up, but you got a lot of energy I'll give you that
Right. So why don't you get to work and actually READ what she has written. Because obviously you have not. Nor has the vast majority of those perusing this thread.You are so many levels of contradiction I can't even keep up, but you got a lot of energy I'll give you that
And then, after a solid effort, perhaps your voluminous vacuous belligerent belching might be transformed into refulgent glorious edifying exposition brimming with discernment and wisdom.
“but none of those verses say God has endedIsrael’s future as a people,”
….. I haven’t either I’ve said they are cursed because of breaking thier covenant …..I’ve never claimed Israel was ended as a people .
“that Israel’s promises dissolve into a purely spiritual inheritance,”
The children of Israel’s land inheritance was always governed by the covenant he made with them before they entered you aren’t hearing me they broke that covenant so all those curses came upon them perpetually .
i just quoted that to you
“Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: and they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.”
Deuteronomy 28:45-46 KJV
in order for isreal to be saved from that they have to accept Christ and the gospel thier old covenant has no power with god Jesus fulfilled it and mediated a new better covenant …..
and again I’m not saying Israel’s injeritance has been downgraded in any way I’m saying it’s far better than the land they cursed breaking thier covenant .
“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:13 KJV
That’s the inheritance it’s not of this world. Isreel can sacrifice red cows in a temple they build according to the pattern given to Moses begin daily sacrofoces annoint levotical preists choose a high priest they could bomb thier opponents into submission and take all the land back ……. And this won’t change anything for them they have to repent and accept the gospel because they are cirsed by the breaking of thier covenant made beforehand.
It’s simple because of gods love and mercy towards Israel he promised to send the messiah to save them from the curse of sin against the law …..Israel has to do this and they’ll inherit Christs kingdom not any land here that’s not his promise to anyone Israeli people individually have to do this
“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
Mark 1:14-15 KJV
They aren’t excluded it’s thoer cofenwnt and others have been included .
Also when “ the fulness of gentiles have come in “ Jesus is coming back to harvest his people destroy this earth and bring the promises he made to pass
The restoration is here for everyone on the new earth after this one’s ended
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
Revelation 21:1-5 KJV
This is when the land will be divided and peace will come and Jerusalem will be on earth and the lord will walk among his people his children ……
But this seems like a circle so bless you and hopefully we can discuss a different subject in the future