The Church, and Israel and the Last Days.

[OMC]

QUOTE
"According to Scripture, the claim that “Noah was removed” and that “those left behind were the wicked” is the very reversal"

Noah, IN YOUR VERY ARGUMENT , IS LEFT BEHIND.

This is ludicrous.
We have witnessed a tsunami, where a ship on the ground would never saved a thousand people.
Had the ark been there it would have been removed and those LEFT BEHIND perished.

As bad of a conclusion your are manufacturing is, it pales to your reframing of Lot.
JESUS USED BOTH, AS A PICTURE OF HIS COMING.
Both had normal life before the gatherings.

Now look at your CONTINUING DILEMMA.
Now you need Lot staying and Sodom population removed PRE BURNING.

You really stepped in it.
Again, your remedy is to START with the written Word.

Lot was not removed pretrib?
"Before the flood setting", is actually Jesus in confusion?
Half the world is saved? Huh ????
Half is heathen? Huh????
Noah was not gathered into the ark pretrib?
( psssst..."ark" is a type of heaven.)

Noah was lifted high over the mountains DURING THE TRIB.
Noah was in the heavens for the ENTIRE TRIB.
Noah RETURNED TO EARTH POSTRIB.

What is comical is that you guys are forced to go against the bible.
It is embarrassing for you for sure.

Your entire rebuttal collapses because you keep arguing from what you think the flood and Sodom should symbolize, instead of what Jesus explicitly states—He says the ones taken in Noah’s day were those the flood “took them all away” (Matthew 24:39), and the ones taken in Lot’s day were those fire “destroyed them all” (Luke 17:29), meaning the removed are the judged, and the left are the preserved, which is exactly the same pattern He teaches in Matthew 13:41–43 where the angels “remove” the wicked from among the righteous; your attempt to rescue pre‑trib logic by claiming Noah was “lifted into the heavens,” the ark was “a type of heaven,” and Noah “returned post‑trib” is not exegesis but imagination, because Jesus never says any of that—He interprets Noah and Lot as judgment events, not rapture events, and your “half the world righteous / half heathen” objection is a category error because Jesus uses two individuals as an illustration of sudden separation, not a census of global salvation; the dilemma you accuse me of is the one Jesus Himself creates, because He defines the pattern as wicked removed, righteous preserved, and the only way to defend your system is to reverse His explanation, which is why your argument keeps collapsing the moment we return to the text.

 

[Psalm1]

You keep insisting that Jesus’ Noah‑Lot analogy must teach a pre‑trib rescue of the righteous, but Jesus Himself explicitly defines the pattern as judgment falling on the wicked, not salvation removing the righteous—He says, “the flood came and took them all away” (Matthew 24:39) and “it rained fire… and destroyed them all” (Luke 17:29), and He follows those statements with “so shall it be” at His coming, meaning the ones taken are the ones removed in judgment, while the ones left are the ones preserved, exactly as in Matthew 13:41–43 where the angels remove the wicked from among the righteous; your accusation that this creates a “pre‑trib rapture of the wicked” is a category error, because Jesus is not describing a rapture at all—He is describing final judgment, and your claim that this requires “half the world righteous and half born again” is a straw man, because Jesus is describing two individuals as an illustration of sudden separation, not a statistical distribution of the global population; the corner you think I’m in is the one Jesus Himself stands in, and the only way out of it is to stop reversing His own explanation of who is removed and who is preserved

"Before the flood setting."
Tell us how that is not true.
Or tell us all about YOUR interpretation of :
A) how you got into that error of a wicked person rapture of half the planet pretrib.
( you attest to that over and over whipping that dead horse)
B) how Lot stayed, and the wicked, according to some bizarre notion, were removed and Lot stayed.

 

[Psalm1]

Your entire rebuttal collapses because you keep arguing from what you think the flood and Sodom should symbolize, instead of what Jesus explicitly states—He says the ones taken in Noah’s day were those the flood “took them all away” (Matthew 24:39), and the ones taken in Lot’s day were those fire “destroyed them all” (Luke 17:29), meaning the removed are the judged, and the left are the preserved, which is exactly the same pattern He teaches in Matthew 13:41–43 where the angels “remove” the wicked from among the righteous; your attempt to rescue pre‑trib logic by claiming Noah was “lifted into the heavens,” the ark was “a type of heaven,” and Noah “returned post‑trib” is not exegesis but imagination, because Jesus never says any of that—He interprets Noah and Lot as judgment events, not rapture events, and your “half the world righteous / half heathen” objection is a category error because Jesus uses two individuals as an illustration of sudden separation, not a census of global salvation; the dilemma you accuse me of is the one Jesus Himself creates, because He defines the pattern as wicked removed, righteous preserved, and the only way to defend your system is to reverse His explanation, which is why your argument keeps collapsing the moment we return to the text.

Yes we can all over-generalize everything.
As you continually do.
IOW if you put enough OMISSION in your doctrine, your postrib work book makes sense to you and your colleagues.


QUOTE
"He interprets Noah and Lot as judgment events, not rapture events, and your “half the world righteous / half heathen” objection is a category error because Jesus uses two individuals as an illustration of sudden separation"

Your commentary of omission is lame.
Gods word says it...you deny it.
Matthew 24
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39;And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Ever read vs 42???
You know, the one you omitted to conclude that gathering is not the rapture.
You think it is the wicked rapture and Jesus telling half the world to watch for him to come rapture them to some made up destruction.

All that about half gathered is fuel for your omission.
You are oblivious to it.

The setting is off from your theory.
Those taken are reframed to fit man's doctrine
Jesus "watch for my coming", is bizarre to your theory

 

[OMC]

"Before the flood setting."
Tell us how that is not true.
Or tell us all about YOUR interpretation of :
A) how you got into that error of a wicked person rapture of half the planet pretrib.
( you attest to that over and over whipping that dead horse)
B) how Lot stayed, and the wicked, according to some bizarre notion, were removed and Lot stayed.

Noah was preserved on the ark, all others takenaway in judgement
Lot walked out of town by angels (preserved) all other taken in judgement
Jesus returns and his are preserved all others are taken in judgement

the pattern is clear, the wicked are taken in judgement, the rest are his and preserved.

 

[TrustandObey]

Just as some people use partial scripture as a weapon to murder, to steal, we need to be careful.

When you say ethnic jew will have a future returning to Jesus, of course, if anyone still alive. Same for all ethnics.

What do you tell ethnic jew that are dying tonight? To accept Jesus or not?

"Ethnic Jew"?

What is a ethnic Jew and where did OMC mention this term?

 

[OMC]

Yes we can all over-generalize everything.
As you continually do.
IOW if you put enough OMISSION in your doctrine, your postrib work book makes sense to you and your colleagues.


QUOTE
"He interprets Noah and Lot as judgment events, not rapture events, and your “half the world righteous / half heathen” objection is a category error because Jesus uses two individuals as an illustration of sudden separation"

Your commentary of omission is lame.
Gods word says it...you deny it.
Matthew 24
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39;And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Ever read vs 42???
You know, the one you omitted to conclude that gathering is not the rapture.
You think it is the wicked rapture and Jesus telling half the world to watch for him to come rapture them to some made up destruction.

All that about half gathered is fuel for your omission.
You are oblivious to it.

The setting is off from your theory.
Those taken are reframed to fit man's doctrine
Jesus "watch for my coming", is bizarre to your theory

You need to slow down and recognize what is happening inside your own heart, because the way you are speaking to your brother is not the way Scripture teaches believers to contend for truth; you are not “defending doctrine,” you are tearing down a man, and that is never the work of the Spirit.
Paul warns that when believers “bite and devour one another,” the problem is not theology but the flesh, and James says the wisdom from above is “peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated,” which means the tone you are using—mocking, belittling, accusing, and exaggerating—is not coming from the Spirit of God.
You may be convinced your interpretation is right, but the moment you begin attacking a brother instead of addressing the text, you have already stepped outside the boundaries of Christlike conduct.
A brother who is sincerely trying to share truth deserves patience, humility, and careful engagement, not ridicule.
If you want to be taken seriously as a student of Scripture, you must learn to correct without contempt, to disagree without hostility, and to speak as one who remembers that Christ died for the man you are arguing with.

 

[Psalm1]

You need to slow down and recognize what is happening inside your own heart, because the way you are speaking to your brother is not the way Scripture teaches believers to contend for truth; you are not “defending doctrine,” you are tearing down a man, and that is never the work of the Spirit.
Paul warns that when believers “bite and devour one another,” the problem is not theology but the flesh, and James says the wisdom from above is “peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated,” which means the tone you are using—mocking, belittling, accusing, and exaggerating—is not coming from the Spirit of God.
You may be convinced your interpretation is right, but the moment you begin attacking a brother instead of addressing the text, you have already stepped outside the boundaries of Christlike conduct.
A brother who is sincerely trying to share truth deserves patience, humility, and careful engagement, not ridicule.
If you want to be taken seriously as a student of Scripture, you must learn to correct without contempt, to disagree without hostility, and to speak as one who remembers that Christ died for the man you are arguing with.

I am here to speak what the Bible speaks.
I am a reporter.
You are making the bible says what it does not via omission and commentary.
I am free to say what the Bible says.

You accused me earlier of being duped by a system.
So I always let the other guy set the pace.
Ironically. I have shown you your system to be rife with error.
It is your system that REJECTS MAT 24.

ALL those negative labels you attach to a brother is nothing but a smoke screen.

If you need to correct a brother, first see if YOU ARE THE ONE that is rejecting the written word.

Your accusations are silly friend.
There is nothing i wrote that is not factual.

If you can not accept correction, then why even study the bible????

Your deal is exposed, and now it is time to label a brother as defective.

I have never seen a postribber correctly unpack mat 24.
Nor Rev 14,
Mat 25.

 

[Psalm1]

Noah was preserved on the ark, all others takenaway in judgement
Lot walked out of town by angels (preserved) all other taken in judgement
Jesus returns and his are preserved all others are taken in judgement

the pattern is clear, the wicked are taken in judgement, the rest are his and preserved.

Lol.
WHO was clawing and scratching at the Ark to go up into the clouds with Noah when the ark rose into the heavens??

Psssst...those left behind


Lot was taken, not sodoms citizens
You serious?
The pattern is WRITTEN.

Sad you keep inventing what is NOT there.

 

[OMC]

Lol.
WHO was clawing and scratching at the Ark to go up into the clouds with Noah when the ark rose into the heavens??

Psssst...those left behind


Lot was taken, not sodoms citizens
You serious?
The pattern is WRITTEN.

Sad you keep inventing what is NOT there.

You are accountable for your words as I am. So be it

 

[Psalm1]

Your entire rebuttal collapses because you keep arguing from what you think the flood and Sodom should symbolize, instead of what Jesus explicitly states—He says the ones taken in Noah’s day were those the flood “took them all away” (Matthew 24:39), and the ones taken in Lot’s day were those fire “destroyed them all” (Luke 17:29), meaning the removed are the judged, and the left are the preserved, which is exactly the same pattern He teaches in Matthew 13:41–43 where the angels “remove” the wicked from among the righteous; your attempt to rescue pre‑trib logic by claiming Noah was “lifted into the heavens,” the ark was “a type of heaven,” and Noah “returned post‑trib” is not exegesis but imagination, because Jesus never says any of that—He interprets Noah and Lot as judgment events, not rapture events, and your “half the world righteous / half heathen” objection is a category error because Jesus uses two individuals as an illustration of sudden separation, not a census of global salvation; the dilemma you accuse me of is the one Jesus Himself creates, because He defines the pattern as wicked removed, righteous preserved, and the only way to defend your system is to reverse His explanation, which is why your argument keeps collapsing the moment we return to the text.

QUOTE
"the dilemma you accuse me of is the one Jesus Himself creates, because He defines the pattern as wicked removed, righteous preserved, and the only way to defend your system is to reverse
His explanation, which is why your argument keeps collapsing the moment we return to the text."


The text:
Mat 24.
36;But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37;But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38;For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

The text you are shown multiple times and still reject it.

The text
" Put pray that you may be counted worthy to stan to escape the things about to come upon the earth and stan before the son of man."

The text
" Because you have kept the word of my testimony. I will also keep you from the hour of trial. There's about to come upon the entire world."

The text.
Mat 25
10;And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11;Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12;But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13;Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Who is taken?
Who is left behind ?

Oooops

 

[Psalm1]

You are accountable for your words as I am. So be it

Yes.
The written Word with postribber tampering will most likely bring consequences.

All that silly cursing and weoponizing of Gods word is lame friend.

You can not answer my challenges.
It is your doctrine that is making you look bad.

Calm down, get a bible, and see where your doctrine has taken you into dry places.

You are welcome.

 

[OMC]

37;But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Noah was preserved on the ark, all others takenaway in judgement

The text
" Put pray that you may be counted worthy to stan to escape the things about to come upon the earth and stan before the son of man."

The text
" Because you have kept the word of my testimony. I will also keep you from the hour of trial. There's about to come upon the entire world."

The text.
Mat 25
10;And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11;Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12;But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13;Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Who is taken?
Who is left behind ?

My friend, Luke 21:36 (“pray that you may be counted worthy to escape”),
Revelation 3:10 (“I will keep you from the hour of trial”), and
Matthew 25 (“they that were ready went in… the door was shut”) are all about the righteous being preserved, not about the wicked being raptured, and none of them redefine Matthew 24’s Noah‑pattern.
Jesus already told you who is taken—the ones the flood “took them all away” (Matthew 24:39), meaning the removed are the judged, and the left are the preserved, exactly as in Matthew 13:41–43 where the angels “remove” the wicked from among the righteous; the virgins in Matthew 25 are not “taken,” they are admitted, and the foolish are excluded, which is not a rapture but a judgment of readiness;
Revelation 3:10 is not removal from earth but protection from deception, and Luke 21:36 is not escape by disappearance but escape by perseverance—Jesus says “watch,” not because the righteous will be taken away, but because judgment will fall suddenly on the wicked; so when you ask “Who is taken? Who is left behind?” the text answers plainly: the taken are the judged, the left are the preserved, and every attempt to reverse that pattern requires you to ignore Jesus’ own explanation in verse 39.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Your misunderstanding as I understand it, is you have taken Zech. 12-14, which is a Judaic prophecy, and have applied it to the world at large in the last days. Please consider the following:

“The covenant between God and the ancient nation of Israel con-
tained many promises and prophecies. Contrary to the beliefs of
many people today, these promises and prophecies were condition-
al.

Some were, some weren't.

God’s covenant with Israel was contingent on Israel’s behavior.

Not the Abrahamic Covenant, it was unconditional. God will keep His promises to the Jews.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The church.
the nation of Israel
Biblical nation of Israel
How do these all fit in the last days is a question that is one of the most abused in modern theology.
The Three Are Not the Same — and Scripture Never Confuses Them.

1. The Church (ἐκκλησία)
The Church is:
Jew + Gentile together
One new humanity (Eph 2:15)
The Body of Christ
The people of the New Covenant
Defined by Christ’s blood, not ethnicity
The Church is not a nation, not a geopolitical entity, and not an ethnic group.
It is the assembly of the redeemed, gathered under the risen Christ.

The Church is not Israel, and Israel is not the Church.
Paul forbids collapsing them (Rom 11).

2. Modern State of Israel (1948–present)

The modern nation-state of Israel is:
a secular political entity
not a covenant nation
not the restored theocracy
not the fulfillment of the prophets
not the kingdom of God
It has historical continuity with ancient Israel, but no covenant continuity.
God did not re-establish the Sinai covenant in 1948.The prophets never said He would.
Modern Israel is political, not theological.

3. Biblical Israel (Old Covenant Israel)

Biblical Israel was:
a covenant nation under Torah
a theocracy
a priestly people
a national vessel for Messiah
a people judged, exiled, restored, judged again, and replaced by the New Covenant
Biblical Israel was destroyed as a covenant nation (Heb 8:13).
Not erased as a people — but its covenant ended.

Biblical Israel is not the modern state.
Biblical Israel is not the Church.
Biblical Israel is the Old Covenant nation that served its purpose: to bring forth Messiah.

How They Fit in the Last Days

A. The Church in the Last Days
The Church:
suffers
witnesses
endures
is purified
is gathered to Christ
reigns with Him
The Church is the central redeemed community of the last days.
Not Israel.
Not America.
Not any nation.

B. Modern Israel in the Last Days

Modern Israel plays a historical role, not a covenant role.
Scripture does not assign:
salvation to the state
covenant to the state
prophetic fulfillment to the state
kingdom authority to the state
But Scripture does foresee conflict centered in Jerusalem, and nations gathering around it (Zech 12–14).
Modern Israel is geopolitical stage, not covenant actor.

C. Biblical Israel in the Last Days

Biblical Israel’s role is eschatological, not political.

Paul says: “A partial hardening has happened… until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.” (Rom 11:25)
This is not the modern state.
This is the Jewish people, as a people, experiencing a future turning to Christ.
Not a return to Torah. Not a return to the old covenant. Not a return to the theocracy.
A return to their Messiah.
That is the biblical “Israel in the last days.”

The Church = New Covenant people of Christ (Jew + Gentile).
Modern Israel = secular nation-state, not covenant Israel.
Biblical Israel = Old Covenant nation, fulfilled and superseded by Christ.

In the last days:
The Church is the redeemed community.
Modern Israel is the geopolitical stage.
Biblical Israel (the Jewish people) experiences a future turning to Christ — not a return to Moses.
That is the clean, text-anchored distinction.

I encourage debate on any of these topics.

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both ( he’s discussing gentiles and Israel ) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:11-17, 19-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the church and gods one group

notice how the gentiles are grafter into something with the commonwealth of Israel they hadnt been before ? ……. That’s Israel’s new and eternal covenant made by thier messiah and is what is called the Church or “ body of Christ “


either former Jews will accept chriet and become Christian’s and inherit those promises or they’ll be as everyone else is who rejects Jesus. They have to convert to escape the curse of thier broken covenant ……

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Some were, some weren't.



Not the Abrahamic Covenant, it was unconditional. God will keep His promises to the Jews.

The “ Abrahamic “ covenant brought Jesus …..and the promised land Abraham was looking to in heaven

 

[Churchgoer]

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both ( he’s discussing gentiles and Israel ) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:11-17, 19-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the church and gods one group

notice how the gentiles are grafter into something with the commonwealth of Israel they hadnt been before ? ……. That’s Israel’s new and eternal covenant made by thier messiah and is what is called the Church or “ body of Christ “


either former Jews will accept chriet and become Christian’s and inherit those promises or they’ll be as everyone else is who rejects Jesus. They have to convert to escape the curse of thier broken covenant ……

Very well said.
Simple.
With Jesus, or not.
In "the way", or not.
Have Jesus blood covering, or not.

Praise God for clear teachings like this.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Very well said.
Simple.
With Jesus, or not.
In "the way", or not.
Have Jesus blood covering, or not.

Praise God for clear teachings like this.

I’m glad you got a good thing out of it . One point was the inheritance promised is different

The old covenant had a promised land and there’s a story that goes with it of the covenant law of thier land and the results of breaking it …..

but Israel’s new and better covenant after that one was broken has a better promised land made by god for his people. Where he is going to restore israel not because they are flesh and blood descendants of Jacob but because they accept Christ and have faith in God the father of all in him.

If Israelites accept Jesus this isn’t going to restore thier old covenant land but it would make them Christian ( neither Jew nor gentile ) and will bring to pass the promises jesus made israel and then sent to all people for a new better and permanent world with god the father

 

[Psalm1]

Noah was preserved on the ark, all others takenaway in judgement

My friend, Luke 21:36 (“pray that you may be counted worthy to escape”),
Revelation 3:10 (“I will keep you from the hour of trial”), and
Matthew 25 (“they that were ready went in… the door was shut”) are all about the righteous being preserved, not about the wicked being raptured, and none of them redefine Matthew 24’s Noah‑pattern.
Jesus already told you who is taken—the ones the flood “took them all away” (Matthew 24:39), meaning the removed are the judged, and the left are the preserved, exactly as in Matthew 13:41–43 where the angels “remove” the wicked from among the righteous; the virgins in Matthew 25 are not “taken,” they are admitted, and the foolish are excluded, which is not a rapture but a judgment of readiness;
Revelation 3:10 is not removal from earth but protection from deception, and Luke 21:36 is not escape by disappearance but escape by perseverance—Jesus says “watch,” not because the righteous will be taken away, but because judgment will fall suddenly on the wicked; so when you ask “Who is taken? Who is left behind?” the text answers plainly: the taken are the judged, the left are the preserved, and every attempt to reverse that pattern requires you to ignore Jesus’ own explanation in verse 39.

Being preserved in heaven is a good thing.
Your message is " no rapture until I say so, and the bride must be cleansed, because in my mind that is true"

I already showed you how LOT AND NOAH, are framed BY JESUS, SIDE BY SIDE as removal PRETRIB.

You can say "LOT STAYED , and sodoms population was taken", a million times, and go against scripture a million times, and you will be just as wrong as those that taught you pure baloney.

Your deal is commentary.
The real deal is the bible.

Look at where your doctrine has taken you.
" Oh no my friend LOT Stayed in Sodom and was preserved, but all it's wicked people were removed and judged."

With Noah
"All those people clawing and banging on the ark to go with Noah over a mile into the heavens were not left behind"

With the "one taken and one left behind" of mat 24.
"We will see a wicked person rapture preflood/pretrib, God will take the wicked which are the 50% taken"

Pure fantasy.
We will never , according to the Bible, ever see this wicked world half righteous.

You have refrramed MOST of mat 24.

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both ( he’s discussing gentiles and Israel ) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:11-17, 19-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the church and gods one group

notice how the gentiles are grafter into something with the commonwealth of Israel they hadnt been before ? ……. That’s Israel’s new and eternal covenant made by thier messiah and is what is called the Church or “ body of Christ “


either former Jews will accept chriet and become Christian’s and inherit those promises or they’ll be as everyone else is who rejects Jesus. They have to convert to escape the curse of thier broken covenant ……

Well, Paul declared he is a jew, and the jewish people his brethren.
So Paul was confused?
In Romans 9-11 we see the two covenants side by side, and the Jewish one regrafted.

They exist side by side.
The Jews will come in later, as born again, accepting Jesus as the messiah.

Read the book of Ruth, and note THAT NAOMI, was not erased or vanished.

Both were redeemed side by side and intact.
Both came in under Boaz.

SMH at the error of replacement theology.

 

[OMC]

You can say "LOT STAYED , and sodoms population was taken", a million times, and go against scripture a million times, and you will be just as wrong as those that taught you pure baloney.

Genesis 19:16 is the verse you’re looking for—the one that explicitly says Lot was taken by the hand and escorted out of the city: “But he lingered; so the men seized him and his wife and his two daughters by the hand, the LORD being merciful to him, and they brought him out and set him outside the city.” That single line shows everything: Lot hesitated, the angels physically grabbed him, the rescue was entirely God’s mercy, and the removal was literal, not symbolic. He was saved, everyone else removed in judgement by fire.

 

[Psalm1]

Genesis 19:16 is the verse you’re looking for—the one that explicitly says Lot was taken by the hand and escorted out of the city: “But he lingered; so the men seized him and his wife and his two daughters by the hand, the LORD being merciful to him, and they brought him out and set him outside the city.” That single line shows everything: Lot hesitated, the angels physically grabbed him, the rescue was entirely God’s mercy, and the removal was literal, not symbolic. He was saved, everyone else removed in judgement by fire.

Huh?
God's people removed?
The wicked also removed?


How did you figure it?

Every citizen removed ????
Who died?

If the wicked are "spiritually removed", then it makes no sense at all.

"Two in a bed, nobody removed, they are still there , but dead"....in the spirit.

Just spiritually removed.

The more you do damage control, the more you introduce confusion.