Harvesting of the Earth

[Churchgoer]

Read Paul's letters.
He travail over them.
He called himself both a Christian and a Jew.
Both heritages side by side.
In Romans 9-11 Paul prophesied the covenant Jews to be grafted back in.

BTW, they were a fallen state way before tge cross.

Fallen Christians are still covenant.
Read the prodigal.
He was fallen and still family.

Same as the Jew.
(Fallen, but still covenant.)

We don't know the future state of a person, we only know the current state. So we can only help a person to come back to Lord. We can't say yeah continue with destruction, don't worry, you are in the covenant.

Because when a person reject Jesus, we can not assume he is in Jesus covenant. If so, we assume every Arab, asian.... in Jesus covenant too, then what? Jews are allowed to bomb Arabs for what reason again?

There is no prejudice in ethnicity. Period.

Ps, Paul s letter never say to help one group to murder another group. Read again.

 

[Musicmaster]

Support and love, must be within Jesus teaching.
If one gives a confused child access to sex exchange, it is curse, not supporting.
Same for secular Israel state, if one gives it weapon to murder and bomb, it is entering into crime together with them. In psalm, God tells people to stay away from evil schemes.

So, you appear to be saying things pointing to ideas derived from corrupt media as having convinced you that Israel is evil for defending ourselves against our aggressors? We didn't go out there and start plastering various targets just because. It has always been in response to aggressions against us. America is no better as a secular government and nation.

There are many of us faithful Jews in Israel and abroad who are TRUE Israel, as Paul pointed out. It just so happens that the state of Israel is one of the highest concentrations of us TRUE Jews who also agree with our secular government defending us against our enemies, which is also enjoyed by MANY Muslims living in Israel as well. Israel also has a large population of Gentile followers of Christ Jesus, so, yes, we can harangue about what secular governments do to defend the citizenry when it's unjust, but that is something God Himself established as the right and power of governments.

So, you and others can hate us all you want. If that's your sentiment, then you're in the company of many in that regard here in America. You can even believe the rhetoric you see on MSNBC, CNN, PBS and all the other liberal outlets that spew their hate 24-7 against us. That's between you and the Lord. My only sentiment in all this, "May the Lord rebuke and destroy all who hate we Israelis who are followers of Christ Jesus, and those who are not and yet will some day become a fellow believer." We are everywhere, dude, and if your churchianity pulpit is filled with this kind of hate for us, then may that organization be brought into the dust. Paul wrote of his willingness to give away all his eternal reward for the sake of the entire nation, including even the secular Jews for we are all bonded through blood and THE chosen nation of priests.

So, the politicians in America are increasingly secular and satanic, so I hope America soon becomes as good as Israel by only attacking one's aggressors to stop the attacks, contrary to America's history.

MM

 

[Davidstarr]

So, you appear to be saying things pointing to ideas derived from corrupt media as having convinced you that Israel is evil for defending ourselves against our aggressors? We didn't go out there and start plastering various targets just because. It has always been in response to aggressions against us. America is no better as a secular government and nation.

There are many of us faithful Jews in Israel and abroad who are TRUE Israel, as Paul pointed out. It just so happens that the state of Israel is one of the highest concentrations of us TRUE Jews who also agree with our secular government defending us against our enemies, which is also enjoyed by MANY Muslims living in Israel as well. Israel also has a large population of Gentile followers of Christ Jesus, so, yes, we can harangue about what secular governments do to defend the citizenry when it's unjust, but that is something God Himself established as the right and power of governments.

So, you and others can hate us all you want. If that's your sentiment, then you're in the company of many in that regard here in America. You can even believe the rhetoric you see on MSNBC, CNN, PBS and all the other liberal outlets that spew their hate 24-7 against us. That's between you and the Lord. My only sentiment in all this, "May the Lord rebuke and destroy all who hate we Israelis who are followers of Christ Jesus, and those who are not and yet will some day become a fellow believer." We are everywhere, dude, and if your churchianity pulpit is filled with this kind of hate for us, then may that organization be brought into the dust. Paul wrote of his willingness to give away all his eternal reward for the sake of the entire nation, including even the secular Jews for we are all bonded through blood and THE chosen nation of priests.

So, the politicians in America are increasingly secular and satanic, so I hope America soon becomes as good as Israel by only attacking one's aggressors to stop the attacks, contrary to America's history.

MM

Salvation is through Jesus on an individual basis.
No longer dependent on what race, religion, nationality or bloodlines you come from.

This means individual people. Not church organizations or citizenships. Or claiming a bloodline from Abraham either.

 

[Cameron143]

Salvation is through Jesus on an individual basis.
No longer dependent on what race, religion, nationality or bloodlines you come from.

This means individual people. Not church organizations or citizenships. Or claiming a bloodline from Abraham either.

Salvation has always been through Christ. OT Jews were never saved under the old covenant. They were simply in covenant relationship with God through birth. They still needed to be saved.

 

[Churchgoer]

Context again.
It's war-time. Both parents are old and decrepit. Son steals a loaf of bread to keep them alive for 1 more day. Hmmm tough call....

But I understand what you mean.

Should a judge let a convicted child molester go free just because he claims to be Christian?
That won't usually happen. Well, unless it's a Catholic priest......

But parents should teach their children right from wrong. If they don't society, law enforcement, then a judge WILL.

But "conditional" promises usually implies the person has the ability to make an informed choice.
Choose God's and all the blessings He can give will be given when needed.
Choose against God and don't expect any blessings from Him whatsoever. Quite the opposite actually.

What is blessing?
David said there is no goodness outside of God.
If a child want to change his sex, cut up himself, what should parent do? Encouraging or discouraging?

Blessing the kid would be keep him away from any evil dr. Who cut up children.

 

[Davidstarr]

What is blessing?
David said there is no goodness outside of God.
If a child want to change his sex, cut up himself, what should parent do? Encouraging or discouraging?

Blessing the kid would be keep him away from any evil dr. Who cut up children.

Before the age of accountability the child is still under the rule of the parents. The parent is responsible for the actions of the minor.

After the age of accountability has been reached (and this age is different in different cultures), the child (if you can still call him a child) is responsible for his own actions.

 

[GaryA]

There are many of us faithful Jews in Israel and abroad who are TRUE Israel, as Paul pointed out.

Since the phrase "true Israel" is not actually found anywhere in scripture, please list/post for me the specific verse(s) you are thinking of 'as Paul pointed out' - not the "true Jew" verses (unless you just want to) but the "true Israel" verses.

so, yes, we can harangue about what secular governments do to defend the citizenry when it's unjust, but that is something God Himself established as the right and power of governments.

I am not so sure that God sanctions the perpetration of any unmistakable/unquestionable evil that any government might do or has ever done - whether against its own citizens or the citizens of another country. Please note that I very specifically with purpose used the word 'citizens' in both cases in that statement.

So, you and others can hate us all you want. If that's your sentiment, then you're in the company of many in that regard here in America.

I do not believe that anyone on here actually hates anyone who is a Jew (an individual) or a citizen of Israel (an individual). Whatever 'animosity' you may see is most likely to be specifically directed at those who are in charge of the government of Israel. I would like to think that at least the vast majority of the citizenry of America has no 'animosity' against any citizen of Israel - just as we in America hope that the people of other countries have no 'animosity' against the citizenry of America. In at least most of the largest countries today, the 'citizenry' and the 'government' are two widely different things - even with 'animosity' between the down-to-earth conservative citizen folk - who have a more live-and-let-live attitude - and the "power-hungry" government - which, in contrast, generally has a nonchalant disregard of its citizenry.

You can even believe the rhetoric you see on MSNBC, CNN, PBS and all the other liberal outlets that spew their hate 24-7 against us.

It can certainly be said honestly that the MSM tells more lies than it does the truth about anything and everything. However, please remember and never forget that what is behind the MSM is the agenda of the "shadow government" and not the citizenry.

America is no better as a secular government and nation.

So, the politicians in America are increasingly secular and satanic, so I hope America soon becomes as good as Israel by only attacking one's aggressors to stop the attacks, contrary to America's history.

It is an atrocity that the "shadow government" has managed to trample all over the constitutional government the way it has in the past several decades - and forced its hand in every area and realm of government. What you need to remember is that everything the U.S. government (and every other government, really - including Israel) does in the world is in fact a "blend" of the 'natural' government (that represents the country) undermined by the "unseen hand" of the "shadow government" hiding within it.

It is extremely complicated - involving the "Deep State", the "Military Industrial Complex", etc. etc. etc. - and, I have no doubt that everything going on in and around Israel is no exception to the fact that Satan has managed to get his fingers into everything worldwide.

The whole world is a stage - and, everything that is happening today is part of the "puppet show" at the other end of the strings that are tied to Satan's fingers.

 

[Churchgoer]

Before the age of accountability the child is still under the rule of the parents. The parent is responsible for the actions of the minor.

After the age of accountability has been reached (and this age is different in different cultures), the child (if you can still call him a child) is responsible for his own actions.

I am using it as an analogy.

 

[Musicmaster]

Salvation is through Jesus on an individual basis.
No longer dependent on what race, religion, nationality or bloodlines you come from.

This means individual people. Not church organizations or citizenships. Or claiming a bloodline from Abraham either.

I agree, so what, may I ask, is your point? This seems unrelated to the issue of replacement theology and Israel defending itself, be it secular or not.

MM

 

[Churchgoer]

Since the phrase "true Israel" is not actually found anywhere in scripture, please list/post for me the specific verse(s) you are thinking of 'as Paul pointed out' - not the "true Jew" verses (unless you just want to) but the "true Israel" verses.


I am not so sure that God sanctions the perpetration of any unmistakable/unquestionable evil that any government might do or has ever done - whether against its own citizens or the citizens of another country. Please note that I very specifically with purpose used the word 'citizens' in both cases in that statement.


I do not believe that anyone on here actually hates anyone who is a Jew (an individual) or a citizen of Israel (an individual). Whatever 'animosity' you may see is most likely to be specifically directed at those who are in charge of the government of Israel. I would like to think that at least the vast majority of the citizenry of America has no 'animosity' against any citizen of Israel - just as we in America hope that the people of other countries have no 'animosity' against the citizenry of America. In at least most of the largest countries today, the 'citizenry' and the 'government' are two widely different things - even with 'animosity' between the down-to-earth conservative citizen folk - who have a more live-and-let-live attitude - and the "power-hungry" government - which, in contrast, generally has a nonchalant disregard of its citizenry.


It can certainly be said honestly that the MSM tells more lies than it does the truth about anything and everything. However, please remember and never forget that what is behind the MSM is the agenda of the "shadow government" and not the citizenry.



It is an atrocity that the "shadow government" has managed to trample all over the constitutional government the way it has in the past several decades - and forced its hand in every area and realm of government. What you need to remember is that everything the U.S. government (and every other government, really - including Israel) does in the world is in fact a "blend" of the 'natural' government (that represents the country) undermined by the "unseen hand" of the "shadow government" hiding within it.

It is extremely complicated - involving the "Deep State", the "Military Industrial Complex", etc. etc. etc. - and, I have no doubt that everything going on in and around Israel is no exception to the fact that Satan has managed to get his fingers into everything worldwide.

The whole world is a stage - and, everything that is happening today is part of the "puppet show" at the other end of the strings that are tied to Satan's fingers.

Agree, the whole political world is a stage. Good analogy.
If we are Christians, following God, we should not idolize any political state.

 

[GaryA]

Quite frankly, at this point, I think the foremost question might should be - how did this thread get so far off-track from its original intent?

(This is not the replacement theology thread.)

 

[Churchgoer]

Quite frankly, at this point, I think the foremost question might should be - how did this thread get so far off-track from its original intent?

what's the original intent?

 

[Churchgoer]

I agree, so what, may I ask, is your point? This seems unrelated to the issue of replacement theology and Israel defending itself, be it secular or not.

MM

The point is no ethnicity has privilege to claim other people s land.

 

[GaryA]

what's the original intent?

Well - according to the OP - I am thinking - something to do with Revelation 14:14 perhaps...

 

[Musicmaster]

Since the phrase "true Israel" is not actually found anywhere in scripture, please list/post for me the specific verse(s) you are thinking of 'as Paul pointed out' - not the "true Jew" verses (unless you just want to) but the "true Israel" verses.

Here you are:

Romans 9:6-8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

When I used the terminology of "true" Israel, it was derived from the meaning of these verses and others:

Romans 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I am not so sure that God sanctions the perpetration of any unmistakable/unquestionable evil that any government might do or has ever done - whether against its own citizens or the citizens of another country. Please note that I very specifically with purpose used the word 'citizens' in both cases in that statement.

God sanctioning, or not, perpetration of what some or many may consider to be evil wasn't the thrust of my comments. My main point was to drive home the fact that God is the creator of government with the instructions He has given in His word. When nations break trust with what the Lord desires, then He deals with them given that we as individuals cannot and are not called upon to try and force changes and corrections to wrongs done by governments.

I do not believe that anyone on here actually hates anyone who is a Jew (an individual) or a citizen of Israel (an individual). Whatever 'animosity' you may see is most likely to be specifically directed at those who are in charge of the government of Israel. I would like to think that at least the vast majority of the citizenry of America has no 'animosity' against any citizen of Israel - just as we in America hope that the people of other countries have no 'animosity' against the citizenry of America. In at least most of the largest countries today, the 'citizenry' and the 'government' are two widely different things - even with 'animosity' between the down-to-earth conservative citizen folk - who have a more live-and-let-live attitude - and the "power-hungry" government - which, in contrast, generally has a nonchalant disregard of its citizenry.

The tonal outlay of the poster of that other post had what appears to me some very high levels of animus against Israel's actions against the Egyptians who are called "Gazans" who put the terrorists in control of their government. There was a time when ALL who occupied that entire region were called "Palestinians," with the change driven by media hatred of Israel. Besides, 1948 was NOT a fulfillment of any prophecy concerning Israel given that we possess less than 2% of the entire land mass area promised to Abraham's descendants.

MM

 

[Psalm1]

I did not change anything. show me what you think was changed.

So?

Irrelevant.

The point being made is the wheat is carried into the store house and the grapes are being crushed.

14 I looked and there before me, sitting on a white cloud, was one who looked like the Son of Man. He had a gold crown on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.

No it doesnt. All 14 14 says is someone who looked like Jesus was sitting on a cloud. John does not positively identify the one sitting on a cloud.

bro, if you want to have this conversation, youre going to have to explain yourself. I did not grow up in your church, I've never heard anyone ever claim that Jesus came and went 4 different times.

QUOTE
"bro, if you want to have this conversation, youre going to have to explain yourself. I did not grow up in your church, I've never heard anyone ever claim that Jesus came and went 4 different times."
Nobody on the planet ever said he came and went 4 times.
You ok??????

Lol, a "conversation" with all your curt snippy "answers"?

Uh huh.
I did not grow uo in your non biblical environment where you ended up.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Please, pray tell, give me your insight as to who that is.
(since you claim it can not be Jesus)

 

[Davidstarr]

QUOTE
"bro, if you want to have this conversation, youre going to have to explain yourself. I did not grow up in your church, I've never heard anyone ever claim that Jesus came and went 4 different times."
Nobody on the planet ever said he came and went 4 times.
You ok??????

Lol, a "conversation" with all your curt snippy "answers"?

Uh huh.
I did not grow uo in your non biblical environment where you ended up.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Please, pray tell, give me your insight as to who that is.
(since you claim it can not be Jesus)

It can mean only one thing.

Rev 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."
Can only refer to Jesus' 2nd coming

Heb 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."
Shows it IS His 2nd coming, not 3rd, not 4th.......

But there are TWO reapers in Rev 14:14-20.
What of the 2nd reaper in verses 17-20?
Not the same angel as in verse 14. It is ANOTHER angel talking to the last "angel" in the prophecy.

 

[Blade]

Depends where you sit maybe God gathering his people, or God bringing judgment on the world.?

 

[ScooterJackson]

Verses 14-16 are an illustration of the rapture at the Second Coming of Christ.

Is that the U Turn crowd that goes up to meet Jesus in the air and then immediately return to earth and skips the Marriage Supper of the Lamb in Heaven?

 

[Davidstarr]

Is that the U Turn crowd that goes up to meet Jesus in the air and then immediately return to earth and skips the Marriage Supper of the Lamb in Heaven?

There is no U-turn. Jesus promised He would come again and take His people to His Father's house of many mansions.

His 2nd coming consists of coming in the clouds. raising the righteous dead back to life and together with the righteous living we are all transformed into immortal beings and taken to heaven.