Judgmental Christians

[ATG]

A doctor judges his patients. He will advise medications but also suggest lifestyle changes if it will help. A friend of mine is a smoker and 50. She has early signs of emphysema. The doctors have told her to quit. Is that being judgemental?

Medical diagnosis is not judging people good or evil by our works.

Which does not address the argument being made about judgmental Christians:

ATG said:
There are some Christians who object to being judgmental about other Christians. They say that we shouldn't judge other Christians by our works. I completely agree.

The Christians that say they are continued sinners and still doing sinful works, should not at all judge all Christians the same as them, and say that we all are still sinful and committing transgressions in life.

That is a wrong judgment to make of other people, that is only according to themselves and their own works. Scripture forbids it:

Jas 4:11
Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother...There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

And so, are you a sinner still doing sinful works? Do you judge that all Christians are sinner doing sinful works?

I've never heard any righteous Christian accusing all Christians of doing righteousness...

 

[Dino246]

Not when you state something one minute, and then disagree with yourself the next in your own words.

I didn't disagree with myself. Like I said before, I understand perfectly what I said. You definitely don't understand what I said.

YOU said, "We shouldn't judge other Christians by our works"

YOU then asked, "You've never once heard any Christian say, that we have no right to judge one another?"

One is "judge other Christians BY OUR WORKS"; the other is "JUDGE ONE ANOTHER".

Are those the same things? No, they are not. You have an unhealthy obsession with "works" so you injected it into your first statement where it doesn't make sense. I asked you "Who says this", and you avoided the question.

Saying that my statement is not believed nor said by any Christian, is not asking for clarification.

Again, that's not what I said. I said "I have never encountered such a thing." I did not say, "Your statement is not believed nor said by any Christian."

You seem to have problems with reading comprehension.

When you address by statemtn, and mabye show any error in my words, then I'll be glad to respond. Otherwise, once again I'm finished with you in this topic too,

I asked you WHO SAYS THIS: "We shouldn't judge other Christians BY OUR WORKS". You have not answered.

Instead you have misrepresented my words, thrown shade, and avoided all accountability.

 

[Gideon300]

Medical diagnosis is not judging people good or evil by our works.

Which does not address the argument being made about judgmental Christians:

ATG said:
There are some Christians who object to being judgmental about other Christians. They say that we shouldn't judge other Christians by our works. I completely agree.

The Christians that say they are continued sinners and still doing sinful works, should not at all judge all Christians the same as them, and say that we all are still sinful and committing transgressions in life.

That is a wrong judgment to make of other people, that is only according to themselves and their own works. Scripture forbids it:

Jas 4:11
Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother...There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

And so, are you a sinner still doing sinful works? Do you judge that all Christians are sinner doing sinful works?

I've never heard any righteous Christian accusing all Christians of doing righteousness...

Paul judged believers. He rebuked the Galatians, called out the sin of the Corinthian adulterer and rebuked the Corinthians for tolerating the evil. You need to learn the difference between being judgemental and judging as in the sense of discernment. If we are no called to judge, how come Robert Morris ended up in prison for sexual abuse? How many pastors have been caught out? Should their sin be swept under the carpet? "You are not allowed to judge...."

Not all pastors are adulterers. Not all are in it for the money or prestige. (The three G's, Gold, Girls and Glory are the temptations facing leaders.) But some are and they are abusing the flock of God. Some in congregations are like white ants, continually undermining the leadership. Paul told Titus to warn a divisive person. I've been around long enough to know how destructive division can be if not dealt with.

​

 

[GWH]

Read the Scriptures of righteousness more, and listen to sinful Christians less.


Typical mistatement. I always at least quote someone, before talking about what they say. It doesn't guarrentee I won't read them wrong, but it does guarrantee I don't do it on purpose to justify myself.

I DO heed Scripture more than sinners/saints, in this case Phil. 3:12-16 was cited which you ignore,
and I see that I should also have cited 1John 1:8-10. What do you say to THAT passage?

 

[ATG]

Now that you're not misquoting me, let's see what your challenge is for being Christians sinners committing transgressions, vs Christians saints keep the Lord's commandments blameless.

I DO heed Scripture more than sinners/saints, in this case Phil. 3:12-16 was cited which you ignore,

Phil 3:12-16 begins with Rev 3:11, which is resurrection from the dead, not Christian perfectness this life.

Phl 3:11
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Christian perfectness is keeping the Lord's commandments blameless, where we must still endure temptations the same as Jesus.

Jas 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Resurrection from the dead is perfection in glory in the likeness of Jesus Christ ascended on high:

Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Rom 6:5
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

and I see that I should also have cited 1John 1:8-10. What do you say to THAT passage?

1Jo 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Once again, context is necessary for the truth of Scripture:

1Jo 1:3
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1Jo 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 1 moves from fellowshipping with the true God and Christ in the light, that has no darkness, to some Christians say about God and His light, while walking in darkness: If we say we have the light of Christ, and are doing evil, then we are lying to ourselves.

And so, if while we are walking in darkness, we also say that we are in the light with God, or we have no sin, or have not sinned, then we are decieving ourselves.

1Jo 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

If we are doing works of darkness, we cannot say we have no sin and darkness in us. Therefore, we cannot say we have the true light of God and Christ, that has no sin and darkness at all.

Only if we have our sin taken away by Jesus Christ, and are walking in the light, as He is in the light, then we can say we have no sin and darkness in us.

1Jo 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jo 3:5
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him is not sinning: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.

No member of the body of Jesus Christ has sin, who has no sin in Him. No one doing dark works is walking in the light of Jesus Christ.

 

[GWH]

Now that you're not misquoting me, let's see what your challenge is for being Christians sinners committing transgressions, vs Christians saints keep the Lord's commandments blameless.

Phil 3:12-16 begins with Rev 3:11, which is resurrection from the dead, not Christian perfectness this life.

Phl 3:11
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Christian perfectness is keeping the Lord's commandments blameless, where we must still endure temptations the same as Jesus.

Jas 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Resurrection from the dead is perfection in glory in the likeness of Jesus Christ ascended on high:

Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Rom 6:5
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

1Jo 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Once again, context is necessary for the truth of Scripture:

1Jo 1:3
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1Jo 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 1 moves from fellowshipping with the true God and Christ in the light, that has no darkness, to some Christians say about God and His light, while walking in darkness: If we say we have the light of Christ, and are doing evil, then we are lying to ourselves.

And so, if while we are walking in darkness, we also say that we are in the light with God, or we have no sin, or have not sinned, then we are decieving ourselves.

1Jo 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

If we are doing works of darkness, we cannot say we have no sin and darkness in us. Therefore, we cannot say we have the true light of God and Christ, that has no sin and darkness at all.

Only if we have our sin taken away by Jesus Christ, and are walking in the light, as He is in the light, then we can say we have no sin and darkness in us.

1Jo 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jo 3:5
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him is not sinning: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.

No member of the body of Jesus Christ has sin, who has no sin in Him. No one doing dark works is walking in the light of Jesus Christ.

Well, I confess that I am a fallible sinner who is less perfect than Paul, and I still believe Scripture in context teaches that all saints sin during the process of sanctification or becoming more loving like Christ in this lifetime, so they should confess sin ASAP rather than claim to be walking in the light or Spirit-filled at that point, which does NOT justify sinning (Phil. 3:12-16, 1John 1:3-10).

Thus, I am not ready to amend the list of categories of people who claim to be good/godly but behave in an ungodly (unloving, untruthful) manner by adding g/ATG:

a. a normally loving person observed during a rare moment when he/she acted uncharacteristically (Phil. 3:12-16),
b. an immature Believer, who is making progress–you should have known him/her a year ago! (1Cor. 3:1-3, Eph. 4:11-15)
c. a truthseeker who has not yet learned the correct interpretation of God’s Word (1Cor. 6:9-11, Eph. 5:8-9), or
d. a pseudo-Christian (Matt. 7:21, 1John 2:19), who affirms Jesus as Messiah but rejects His Lordship.
e. an apostate or heretic (1John 2:19, Heb. 6:4-6), who once believed but repudiated their saving faith (1Tim. 1:19-20).
f. an atheist, who may imitate divine love/light without glorifying the One whose power makes it a golden rule rather than merely a pyrite suggestion.
g. a sinless person (ATG)

Unique?

 

[ATG]

Phl 3:11
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Phi 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Phil 3:13
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

Phl 3:14
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

And so, we see that the mark and prize of Jesus' high calling, is eternal perfection of resurrection in the likeness of Jesus Christ. Our calling by faith in this life, until resurrection from the dead, is our Christian perfectness and blamelessness.

Eternal Christian perfection in glory is our blessed hope of patient continuance in the faith and commandments of our Lord Jesus :

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Gal 6:9
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

2 Peter 1:6
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Jde 1:24
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Either being Christian sinners committing sin, or being perfectly resurrected forever, is the false Christian dychotomy, that is believed and taught by some Christians. But, if we are doing the former, we wll not attain to the latter.

Jhn 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever is committing sin is the servant of sin.

1Jo 3:8
He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil is sinning from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2Co 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or evil.

The Scriptures' gospel promise of Jesus Christ is not doing the former, that we may attain to the latter: The promise of Jesus Christ in this life is becoming wholly newborn and purified of heart by the Lamb of God, and keeping His commandments and faith, to walk as He walked in the days of His own life.

Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,

By that false traditonal dychotomy of either/or, some Christians therefore preach bodily resurrection from the dead is the promised newbirth of God. That promise of being born again must be in this life first, that we may attain to the new body of eternal resurrection.

 

[ATG]

1Jo 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

First, since the gospel promise is of Jesus taking away our sin, then if we still have our sin, the lamb of God has not taken away our sin; We are not born again to recieve Jesus Christ.

Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

If we say we have sin, we say we have not Jesus Christ, else we make Him liar, and the Lamb of God does not take away our sin.

Therefore, once again, the Scripture must always be in context, and not isolated unto itself:

1Jo 1:3
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1Jo 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 1 moves from the true light of God with no darkness, to what some say when walking in darkness: If we say we have the light of Christ, and are doing an evil work, then we are lying to ourselves.

And so, if we are doing works of darkness, and we also say we are in the light with God, or we say we have no sin, or say we have not sinned, then we are decieving ourselves.

1Jo 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

But, if we have our sin taken away by Jesus Christ, and are walking in the light, as He is in the light, then we cannot say we have sin and darkness, in whom is no sin nor darkness:

1Jo 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jo 3:5
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him is not sinning: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.

2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[ATG]

YOU said, "We shouldn't judge other Christians by our works"

YOU then asked, "You've never once heard any Christian say, that we have no right to judge one another?"

One is "judge other Christians BY OUR WORKS"; the other is "JUDGE ONE ANOTHER".

Are those the same things? No, they are not.

I see your confusion and error. Thanks for clarifying.

I only say things by Scripture, not by my own ideas or other traditions. Since Scripture warns us that God judges us all by our works, then judging us, and judging our works is the same thing.

Sometimes I forget, that I'm talking to some Christians that do go by their own ideas or traditions, and so they think I'm being confusing, because their own ideas and teachings are confused.

1 Cor{14:33}
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

You have an unhealthy obsession with "works" so you injected it into your first statement where it doesn't make sense.

See what I mean? To some Christians, Jesus Christ has an unhealthy obsession with works, and doesn't make sense when judging us by our works:

Rev 2:2: I know thy works... Rev 2:9: I know thy works... Rev 2:13: I know thy works... Rev 2:19: I know thy works... Rev 3:1: I know thy works... Rev 3:8: I know thy works... Rev 3:15: I know thy works...

1 Peter{1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

 

[ATG]

I asked you "Who says this", and you avoided the question.

I've learned to, since it's your MO to avoid the teaching.

it doesn't matter whether we have heard a certain teaching or tradition or theology, but only if we agree or not. Afterall, if we only hear what we already believe and teach, then where's the learning?

The only rule on this site, is that we don't accuse someone of teaching something, that they don't say. We avoid that by quoting them first, before disagreeing.

So, I've taken this time to let you know, that your MO is meaningless to any argument, and I'll continue ignoring it. Of course, you can can keep tolling with it, if you like...

 

[OMC]

I only say things by Scripture, not by my own ideas or other traditions. Since Scripture warns us that God judges us all by our works, then judging us, and judging our works is the same thing.

Sometimes I forget, that I'm talking to some Christians that do go by their own ideas or traditions, and so they think I'm being confusing, because their own ideas and teachings are confused.

That’s not discernment; it’s overreach. You must show from the text where their interpretation fails, not assume that disagreement proves they’re confused.

 

[ATG]

You need to learn the difference between being judgemental and judging as in the sense of discernment.​

Exactly, which is what I do here. If you've not read it, then I'll give it more briefly:

Judgmentalism is when we judge others by our own works.

Some Christians confess they are still sinners doing sinful works. They then go on to declare that we all are sinners still committing sins and trespasses.

That is bad Christian judgmentalism. Not every Christian is doing sinful works.

We ought to judge ourselves by our own works, but we ought not also judge all others by our own works.

Christians sinners, that say all Christians are also sinners that commit sins, are bad judgmental Christians.

I've never heard any righteous Christian also say that all Christians are doing righteousness. Christians of righteousness are not judgmental, but only judge righteous judgment by a person's own works.

And so, the argument is not against judging rightly, but wrong judgmentalism.

 

[ATG]

Well, I confess that I am a fallible sinner

That was never the problem. If we are committing sins, then that is between us and Jesus Christ to confess and be forgiven and washed clean:

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

The only problem is when you say 'we all are' fallible sinners. We shoudn't judge all others by ourselves from our own works, but only judge ourselves by our own works.

I still believe Scripture in context teaches that all saints sin

Neither should we judge all others by our own teaching of Scripture. Since our teaching may be flawed, especially if we already declare ourselves fallible. Why would anyone trust your judgment or teaching, when you already disqualify yourself as flawed?

Therefore, to avoid bad judgmentalism of others, you can certainly say, that 'you believe' all Christians are sinners like yourself. And also not because of any sinful works, but only because you believe the Bible says so. And of course, being flawed by your own confession, no one need believe you.

But at least, no one is making an abusive judgmental attack about others, but only inviting othes to a doctrinal dispute of what the Scriptures do teach to all Christians.

Which never teaches in any way, that all Christians are still fallible sinners committing sins against God and His Christ...

during the process of sanctification

Such as here, you are going on with a personal sanctification process of your own, which I dispute by my own works through Jesus, of clean sanctification from transgressing our Lord's commandments.

Which Scripture does teach is the promise of His gospel, to any that repents of transgression for Jesus' sake:

1Co 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Heb 2:11
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren.

Jde 1:1
Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

1Co 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

We Christian saints are sancitified from transgressions, not in the process of becoming sanctified more, by transgressing less.

And so, you can preach your own process of gradual sanctification and less sinning than before, and so be a Christians committing trangression less often. But, we ought not judge all Christians the same as what we believe and do.

Afterall, I never say that all Christians are sanctified from transgression, and are instead keeping our Lord's commandments and doing His righteousness:

Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that are doing righteousness at all times.

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

so they should confess sin ASAP rather than claim to be walking in the light or Spirit-filled at that point, which does NOT justify sinning (Phil. 3:12-16, 1John 1:3-10).

Totally agree. And if you are doing so, then why do you still say you, and especially all Christians, are still sinners committing sins?

Don't you believe the promise of the gospel and Jesus Christ?

Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1Jo 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Since he takes away our sin, and cleanses us from all our sin, then how can we still be a sinner having sin? Unless His gospel is false, and He is lying to us that do confess sin unto righteousness.

Or, do you only say you are a sinner, and that all Christians are sinners like you, because you've been wrongly taught that by other badly judgmental Christians?

Thus, I am not ready to amend the list of categories of people who claim to be good/godly but behave in an ungodly (unloving, untruthful) manner by adding g/ATG:

a. a normally loving person observed during a rare moment when he/she acted uncharacteristically (Phil. 3:12-16),
b. an immature Believer, who is making progress–you should have known him/her a year ago! (1Cor. 3:1-3, Eph. 4:11-15)
c. a truthseeker who has not yet learned the correct interpretation of God’s Word (1Cor. 6:9-11, Eph. 5:8-9), or
d. a pseudo-Christian (Matt. 7:21, 1John 2:19), who affirms Jesus as Messiah but rejects His Lordship.
e. an apostate or heretic (1John 2:19, Heb. 6:4-6), who once believed but repudiated their saving faith (1Tim. 1:19-20).
f. an atheist, who may imitate divine love/light without glorifying the One whose power makes it a golden rule rather than merely a pyrite suggestion.
g. a sinless person (ATG)

Unique?

Already answered.

 

[ATG]

That’s not discernment; it’s overreach. You must show from the text where their interpretation fails, not assume that disagreement proves they’re confused.

Starting at the end of the argument, is presumption. Go back and read the arguments. Or, you can ask me to review. And then you can comment of what is Scripture truth, vs only personal opinion and traditions.

In any case, the statement is discerning, that some Christians only talk about their own ideas and traditions, while others only teach what thus saith the Lord by Scripture.

Mat 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the traditions of men.

2Pe 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any personal interpretation.

 

[Aaron56]

This is a copy-paste way of claiming ignorance, so as not to respond to the answers given.

Mat 13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

A long way to write “I don’t know” but okay.

 

[GWH]

Exactly, which is what I do here. If you've not read it, then I'll give it more briefly:

Judgmentalism is when we judge others by our own works.

Some Christians confess they are still sinners doing sinful works. They then go on to declare that we all are sinners still committing sins and trespasses.

That is bad Christian judgmentalism. Not every Christian is doing sinful works.

We ought to judge ourselves by our own works, but we ought not also judge all others by our own works.

Christians sinners, that say all Christians are also sinners that commit sins, are bad judgmental Christians.

I've never heard any righteous Christian also say that all Christians are doing righteousness. Christians of righteousness are not judgmental, but only judge righteous judgment by a person's own works.

And so, the argument is not against judging rightly, but wrong judgmentalism.

Denying you are a sinner manifests the sin of pride per the Scriptures you perverted previously that I won't bother typing again.
Judging yourself to be sinless is "wrong judgmentalism". Moral maturity may be attained in this life, but not perfect sinlessness.
Being credited with sharing the righteousness of Christ (per Rom 3:20-5:1) does not mean saints do not sin.

 

[Dino246]

I see your confusion and error. Thanks for clarifying.

I am not confused, and I am not in error. I asked YOU to clarify because you wrote two different statements and implied they were the same.

Since Scripture warns us that God judges us all by our works, then judging us, and judging our works is the same thing.

Sometimes I forget, that I'm talking to some Christians that do go by their own ideas or traditions, and so they think I'm being confusing, because their own ideas and teachings are confused.

You STILL have not answered. INSTEAD of answering, you throw shade. However, you have implied again that "judging others" and "judging others by our works" is the same thing.

If I judge another person by their works, I am doing what Scripture recommends.

If I judge another person by my works, I am doing something about which Scripture says nothing, but you say plenty.

So, would you like to try again, or would you just like to admit that "judging others by our works" is completely nonsensical?

 

[Dino246]

I've learned to, since it's your MO to avoid the teaching.

it doesn't matter whether we have heard a certain teaching or tradition or theology, but only if we agree or not. Afterall, if we only hear what we already believe and teach, then where's the learning?

The only rule on this site, is that we don't accuse someone of teaching something, that they don't say. We avoid that by quoting them first, before disagreeing.

So, I've taken this time to let you know, that your MO is meaningless to any argument, and I'll continue ignoring it. Of course, you can can keep tolling with it, if you like...

So once again you avoid the question instead of simply answering it. And, once again, you throw shade.

 

[ATG]

Well done! You're the first person to see the point of the whole argument: Sinful Christians, that go on to say all us Christians are sinners like themselves, because they themselves are committing sins, is bad judgmentalism.

Good job.

"Some Christians confess they are still sinners doing sinful works. They then go on to declare that we all are sinners still committing sins and trespasses." Denying you are a sinner manifests the sin of pride

And some such Christians make it humble to be a sinner against God.

Isa 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Humbleness is repenting of sinning against God, not continuing to be a sinner.

Jas 4:6
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Denying we are a sinner, if we are committing sin against God, is self-deciet.

Jer 2:35
Yet thou sayest, Because I am innocent, surely his anger shall turn from me. Behold, I will plead with thee, because thou sayest, I have not sinned.

Christians believing and teaching that we are not condemned if we sin, are saying God is not angry at our own sin, because we have not sinned against Christ like others, that are condemned for doing the same.

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Rom 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Judging yourself to be sinless is "wrong judgmentalism".

Judging ourselves to be sinless as Jesus Christ, who lives in us, and we in His holy Spirit and temple, is judging Jesus Christ to be sinless, and has no sin in His own body:

Judging we are doing His righteousness through faith in Him, and not committing sin of the devil, is judging ourselves by our works.

1Jo 3:5
And we know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
How can we, that have Jesus Christ the righteous, with our own sin taken away, have sin in Him?

Jesus Christ has no sinful member sinning in His own body, but only His righteous saints.

2 Cor{6:14}
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God;

Jesus christ does not unequally yoke Himself to sinners, but only joins Himself with newborn sons of God doing righteousness as He is:

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John{2:29}
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that is doing righteousness is born of him.

Only a sinful Christ has sinners in his kingdom, that are committing sins against the true God.

1Jo 3:8
He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil is sinning from the beginning.

Moral maturity may be attained in this life, but not perfect sinlessness.

Sinners can certainly be morally mature by doing less evil in this life, but only purified saints of God are doing good and not evil:

Jas 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

3 John{1:11}
Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that is doing good is of God: but he that is doing evil hath not seen God.

The moral relativism of sinners, by sinning less, is not the righteousness of God,t hat does good at all times:

Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that are doing righteousness at all times.
Jhn 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

1Jo 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

How can we that say we abide in Him not walk as He walked, but do those things that displease Him?

Being credited with sharing the righteousness of Christ (per Rom 3:20-5:1) does not mean saints do not sin.

If being credited with sharing the righteousness of Christ, means committing sin against Jesus Christ, then 'credited with sharing' is not 'being imputed' by God.

And finally, how can we share the righteousness of Jesus Christ, while ciommitting unrighteous with the devil?

2 Cor{6:14}
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial?

Being credited with sharing the righteousness of Christ (per Rom 3:20-5:1) does not mean saints do not sin.

"Some Christians confess they are still sinners doing sinful works. They then go on to declare that we all are sinners still committing sins and trespasses."

I have never heard a righteous Christian saint ever declare that all Christians must also be doing righteousness, and not sinning against our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[ATG]

If I judge another person by their works, I am doing what Scripture recommends.

If I judge another person by my works, I am doing something about which Scripture says nothing, but you say plenty.

So, you've stated and agree with my argument against bad judgmentalism. Good job.

And yet, you've been arguing about it the whole time. Some people just like to argue for argemnet's sake...