Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[Beekeeper]

First, Revelation 20:4–6 explicitly says that the martyrs “lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years” and calls this “the first resurrection.” The verb ἔζησαν, “they lived,” is the same verb used of Christ returning to life in Revelation 2:8. John does see “souls,” because they had been slain, but then says they lived. The contrast is with “the rest of the dead,” who “lived not again until the thousand years were finished” (Rev. 20:5). If the second use means bodily resurrection, consistency strongly favors bodily resurrection in the first.

Nor can the millennium plausibly describe the present age while Satan is said to be bound so that “he should deceive the nations no more” (Rev. 20:1–3). The New Testament repeatedly describes Satan during the Church Age as active: he is the “god of this world” who blinds unbelievers (2 Cor. 4:4), “the prince of the power of the air” (Eph. 2:2), prowling “as a roaring lion” (1 Pet. 5:8), deceiving the whole world (Rev. 12:9). Revelation 20 portrays a radically different restraint.

Absolute rubbish assessment. Another day, another heresy to be debunked, another cleanup on aisle 3......
It never ends around here. Frankly, I think that most of this nonsense is intentional hoaxing. Nobody is that dumb.

The claim that Revelation 20 describes only a present heavenly reign of disembodied martyrs during the Church Age ignores the broader prophetic framework into which Revelation deliberately fits.

First, Revelation 20:4–6 explicitly says that the martyrs “lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years” and calls this “the first resurrection.” The verb ἔζησαν, “they lived,” is the same verb used of Christ returning to life in Revelation 2:8. John does see “souls,” because they had been slain, but then says they lived. The contrast is with “the rest of the dead,” who “lived not again until the thousand years were finished” (Rev. 20:5). If the second use means bodily resurrection, consistency strongly favors bodily resurrection in the first.

Nor can the millennium plausibly describe the present age while Satan is said to be bound so that “he should deceive the nations no more” (Rev. 20:1–3). The New Testament repeatedly describes Satan during the Church Age as active: he is the “god of this world” who blinds unbelievers (2 Cor. 4:4), “the prince of the power of the air” (Eph. 2:2), prowling “as a roaring lion” (1 Pet. 5:8), deceiving the whole world (Rev. 12:9). Revelation 20 portrays a radically different restraint.

More importantly, the earthly Messianic kingdom does not originate in Revelation 20. Revelation gives its duration—1,000 years—but the kingdom itself fills the prophets.

God promised David that one of his physical descendants would sit upon David’s throne and rule his kingdom: 2 Samuel 7:12–16; Psalm 89:3–4, 28–37; Psalm 132:11–18. Gabriel explicitly applies that covenant to Jesus:

Luke 1:32–33: “The Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever.”

David’s throne was not a heavenly throne. It was the royal throne of Israel. Christ presently sits at the Father’s right hand (Ps. 110:1; Heb. 1:3), but Scripture distinguishes the Father’s throne from Christ’s own Messianic throne: “I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne” (Rev. 3:21). His Davidic enthronement accompanies His return.

The prophets repeatedly locate that reign in Jerusalem and over the earth:

Isaiah 2:2–4 / Micah 4:1–4 — the nations stream to Jerusalem; “the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.”

Isaiah 11:1–12 — the Davidic Branch rules in righteousness; the nations seek Him; Israel and Judah are regathered.

Isaiah 24:23 — “the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem.”

Jeremiah 23:5–8 — the righteous Branch of David “shall reign and prosper” while Judah is saved and Israel dwells safely in its land.

Jeremiah 30:3, 8–11; 31:31–37 — Israel and Judah are restored nationally, politically, spiritually, and covenantally.

Jeremiah 33:14–26 — the Davidic covenant and Israel’s national promises are reaffirmed as irrevocable.

Ezekiel 36:22–28 — Israel is regathered to its land, cleansed, regenerated, and enabled to obey God.

Ezekiel 37:21–28 — Israel becomes one nation in the land; “David my servant shall be king over them”; God’s sanctuary stands among them.

Ezekiel 40–48 — a restored temple, priesthood, tribal allotments, and a transformed land centered upon Jerusalem.

Zechariah 8:3, 20–23 — the LORD returns to Zion and Gentile nations come to Jerusalem to seek Him.

Zechariah 12:10–14; 13:1 — Israel nationally repents and recognizes the One they pierced.

Zechariah 14:3–4, 9, 16–19 — Messiah’s feet stand upon the Mount of Olives; “the LORD shall be king over all the earth”; surviving Gentile nations go up yearly to Jerusalem to worship the King.

That is not a description of heaven.

Jesus Himself reinforces this expectation. In Matthew 19:28, He promises the apostles that “in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory,” they will sit on twelve thrones “judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” In Matthew 25:31–34, the Son of Man returns, sits upon His throne, gathers the nations before Him, and inaugurates the kingdom.

After forty days of post-resurrection instruction concerning “the kingdom of God,” the apostles ask:

Acts 1:6: “Lord, wilt thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”

Jesus does not correct the concept of restoration. He corrects only their concern with its timing: “It is not for you to know the times or the seasons” (Acts 1:7).

Israel’s future restoration is equally explicit in Romans 11. Israel’s present hardening is only “in part” and lasts “until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in”; then “all Israel shall be saved” when “there shall come out of Sion the Deliverer” (Rom. 11:25–29). Paul grounds this future in God’s irrevocable covenant faithfulness: “the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.”

The New Covenant is indeed inaugurated by Christ’s blood (Luke 22:20; Heb. 8–10), but that does not cancel its explicitly promised national fulfillment to “the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah” (Jer. 31:31; Heb. 8:8). Present Church participation in New-Covenant spiritual blessings does not erase Israel’s promised future regeneration, regathering, and kingdom.

Finally, Revelation itself places the millennium after Christ’s visible return in Revelation 19:11–21. Christ descends, destroys the Beast and False Prophet, and defeats the hostile armies. Then Revelation 20:1–6 describes Satan’s confinement and the thousand-year reign. Only after the thousand years come Satan’s final rebellion, the Great White Throne judgment (20:7–15), and then the new heaven and new earth (Rev. 21:1).

So the sequence is straightforward:

Second Coming → defeat of Antichrist → Satan bound → resurrection/reign of the saints → 1,000-year Messianic kingdom → final rebellion → final judgment → new heavens and new earth.

The millennium is therefore not merely a poetic description of the present Church Age. It is the historical fulfillment of the Abrahamic, Davidic, Land, and New Covenant promises: Christ reigning as David’s greater Son from Jerusalem, restored Israel serving under her Messiah, and the nations receiving His righteous government and blessing.

You always seem to be taking us back to the mindset of the people who followed Jesus into Jerusalem thinking that He would establish an earthly kingdom.
Jesus has already told us as clearly as it is possible to tell that His kingdom is heavenly.

Do you struggle with the idea that a heavenly power can effect affairs on earth?
When Revelations 20:4 speaks of souls that were beheaded reigning with Christ, do you think that it logically follows that they were all reincarnated into earthly flesh?
Is earthly flesh the only reality that seems real to you?
Does living outside earthly flesh not seem like living to you?

Does the fact that David ruled as an earthly king under the mosaic covenant prove to you that Jesus must be the same type of king?

You have often referred us to the disciples question in Acts 1:6 regarding the restoration of Israel, but your focus is on the question and not on Jesus' answer.

Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

So basically the restoration of the kingdom of Israel is none of our business, and that is the most up to date answer that still stands.
Jesus corrects the disciples, informing of their need for the Holy Ghost, and tells them what their job is.

 

[Lovette]

Indeed, since you fail to understand even the basic principles of hermeneutics and the original Greek of a single solitary verse, it’s no wonder you completely missed the mark on the doctrine.

The Structural and Exegetical Pre-Tribulation Synthesis
By synthesizing 1 Thessalonians 4, 1 Thessalonians 5, 2 Thessalonians 1, 2 Thessalonians 2, and the ancient Galilean-Hebrew betrothal model, the scriptures build an airtight, structurally unified case for the Pre-Tribulation Harpazō (Rapture).

When these texts are read as a progressive divine narrative, they demand an absolute separation between the catching away of the Bride into the Father’s house and the subsequent day of wrath executed upon the earth.

Part 1: The Exegetical Link Across the Thessalonian Epistles
1. 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 — The Sequence of Descent and Departure
* Direction of Travel: In 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17, Christ descends from heaven into the air (aēr). Believers are "caught up" (harpazō) to meet Him in the air to be taken where He is. In direct contrast to Post-Tribulational passages (such as Zechariah 14:4 or Revelation 19:11–14), His feet do not touch the Mount of Olives, nor does He establish an earthly throne at this moment.
* The Scope: The passage is restricted entirely to believers ("dead in Christ" and "we which are alive"). Unbelievers are neither mentioned, judged, nor resurrected here.

2. 1 Thessalonians 5:1–11 — The Sudden Pivot to Wrath
* Grammatical Transition: The passage opens with Peri de tōn chronōn ("Now concerning the times and the seasons"), linking chapter 5 directly to the event of chapter 4.
* Pronoun Shift: Paul introduces a strict division using pronouns:
* "They / Them" (The World): Unbelievers in darkness who say "Peace and safety," upon whom "sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape" (5:3).
* "Ye / We" (The Church): Believers who are "not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief" (5:4).
* The Absolute Guarantee (5:9): "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation [deliverance] by our Lord Jesus Christ." Because the 70th Week of Daniel (the Tribulation) is explicitly defined in scripture as the "Great Day of His Wrath" (Rev 6:17, Zeph 1:14–18), the Church cannot be present during it without violating 1 Thessalonians 5:9.
3. 2 Thessalonians 1:6–10 — Relief Before Vengeance
* The Promise of Rest (Anesin): Paul promises that God will recompense tribulation to those who trouble the church, while giving "rest with us" (anesin) to the persecuted saints when Christ is revealed (2 Thess 1:6–7).
* The Distinction: The Church receives rest/relief from persecution, whereas the world receives fiery judgment. The raptured saints return with Him at His public revelation (apokalupsis) to be "glorified in His saints" (1:10)—a logical impossibility unless they were previously gathered to Him first.
4. 2 Thessalonians 2:1–8 — The Restrainer and the Order of Events
* The Subject Stated (2:1): Paul explicitly defines the topic: "our gathering together unto him" (episynagōgē—the Harpazō).
* The Prerequisite Sequence (2:3, 7–8):
* The Apostasia (Departure aka rapture) must occur first.
* The Restrainer (the Holy Spirit indwelling the Church) is "taken out of the way" (ek mesou genētai—removed from the midst).
* Then "shall that Wicked be revealed" (the Antichrist).

* The Indisputable Logic: The Antichrist cannot sign the 7-year covenant (initiating the Tribulation) until the Restrainer is removed. Since the Holy Spirit permanently indwells the Church (John 14:16), removing the Restrainer requires the removal of the Church via the Harpazō. Therefore, the Rapture must precede the Tribulation.

Part 2: The 12-Step Hebrew Betrothal Pattern as a Prophetic Blueprint
Ancient Galilean marriage customs were not merely cultural traditions; they were instituted by God as an precise, step-by-step structural model of the Plan of Redemption.
[ EARTH ] [ FATHER'S HOUSE ]
1. Bride Chosen
2. Price Paid (Cross)
3. Covenant Sealed
4. Bride Set Apart
5. Groom Prepares Place (John 14)
6. Father Approves Timing
│
7. SHOUT & TRUMPET (1 Thess 4) ──────────────────┘
8. HARPAZŌ / TAKEN AWAY
9. Enters Bridal Chamber (7 Years)
10. Marriage Consummated
│
11. PUBLIC REVEAL (Rev 19) ───────────────────────┘
12. Marriage Supper (Earthly Kingdom)

* Bride Chosen: God chose the Church before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4).
* Bride Price Paid (Mohar): Christ purchased the Church with His own blood at Calvary (1 Cor 6:20, 1 Pet 1:18–19).
* Marriage Covenant (Kiddushin): Sealed through the New Covenant in His blood at the Last Supper (Luke 22:20).
* Bride Set Apart: The Church is sanctified and kept pure for her one Husband (2 Cor 11:2).
* Groom Departs to Prepare a Place: Jesus ascended to Heaven, stating: "In my Father's house are many mansions... I go to prepare a place for you" (John 14:2).
* Bride Waits (Unknown Day or Hour): The groom could only return when his father granted permission. The Bride had to remain in continuous readiness (Matt 24:36, 1 Thess 5:6).
* Groom Comes with a Shout and Trumpet: The Groom approaches in the night with a herald's shout and the blast of a shofar (1 Thess 4:16).
* The Bride Is Taken Away (Harpazō): The Bride is physically lifted up and removed from her home to the Groom’s father's house (1 Thess 4:17).
* Retreat into the Bridal Chamber (Chuppah): The Bride and Groom enter the chamber for seven units of time while the doors are shut. On Earth, this corresponds to the 7-year Tribulation (Daniel's 70th Week); in Heaven, the Church is hidden away safely from wrath ("Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself... until the indignation be overpast" — Isaiah 26:20).
* Consummation: The eternal, unbreakable union of Christ and His resurrected Church.
* The Public Revelation: After the 7-year period, the Groom steps out of the chamber with His Bride, revealing her publicly to the world in glory (Col 3:4, Jude 14, Rev 19:14).
* The Marriage Supper: The celebration of the kingdom feast on Earth following the victory over darkness (Rev 19:7–9).
Comparative Structural Summary
| Feature | The Pre-Tribulation Harpazō (1 Thess 4 / John 14) | The Post-Tribulation Second Coming (Rev 19 / Zech 14) |
|---|---|---|
| Location of Meeting | In the air (aēr) | On the Earth (Mount of Olives) |
| Destination | Father's House in Heaven (Bridal Chamber) | Earth (To set up the Millennial Kingdom) |
| Participants | Believers only (Resurrected & Translated) | Every eye sees Him; All nations judged |
| Context | Deliverance from wrath / Comfort | Outpouring of wrath / Armageddon |
| Hebrew Wedding Phase | Step 8: Groom fetches Bride to His Father's House | Step 11: Groom reveals Bride publicly to the world |
Conclusion
The internal grammar of the Thessalonian letters and the Hebrew marriage topology align on a single structural truth: The Church is taken away before judgment falls.
1 Thessalonians 4 provides the mechanics (Harpazō in the air), 1 Thessalonians 5 provides the guarantee (Exemption from the Day of Wrath), 2 Thessalonians 2 provides the sequence (Restrainer removed first), and the 12-step Hebrew marriage framework provides the divine blueprint that binds the entire doctrine together.

Don't give me the AI garbage, show me where's the pre-trib resurrection. I'm asking for the RESURRECTION, not any Greek hermeneutics on the rapture.

 

[cv5]

Don't give me the AI garbage, show me where's the pre-trib resurrection. I'm asking for the RESURRECTION, not any Greek hermeneutics on the rapture.

Even your questions are addled inchoate biblically illiterate nonsense.

 

[cv5]

You always seem to be taking us back to the mindset of the people who followed Jesus into Jerusalem thinking that He would establish an earthly kingdom.
Jesus has already told us as clearly as it is possible to tell that His kingdom is heavenly.

Do you struggle with the idea that a heavenly power can effect affairs on earth?
When Revelations 20:4 speaks of souls that were beheaded reigning with Christ, do you think that it logically follows that they were all reincarnated into earthly flesh?
Is earthly flesh the only reality that seems real to you?
Does living outside earthly flesh not seem like living to you?

Does the fact that David ruled as an earthly king under the mosaic covenant prove to you that Jesus must be the same type of king?

You have often referred us to the disciples question in Acts 1:6 regarding the restoration of Israel, but your focus is on the question and not on Jesus' answer.

Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

So basically the restoration of the kingdom of Israel is none of our business, and that is the most up to date answer that still stands.
Jesus corrects the disciples, informing of their need for the Holy Ghost, and tells them what their job is.

You said it yourself in post #1,989:
you "can't see".

But I certainly can. Perfect well....
"Revelations 20:4"

 

[Lovette]

Even your questions are addled inchoate biblically illiterate nonsense.

The only nonsense is your ad hominem attacks. I simply asked about resurrection, THE core belief, the central pillar of Christianity, where is it - before your pre-trib rapture? Show me.

 

[cv5]

Don't give me the AI garbage, show me where's the pre-trib resurrection. I'm asking for the RESURRECTION, not any Greek hermeneutics on the rapture.

Pppsssstttt: over here.....

The rapture IS the resurrection.....of ONLY the mystery "one new man" Jew and gentile Bride, the Body of Christ the Church.

That unique new creation being bounded by strict, non-arbitrary non-negotiable time constraints known as Pentecost and the harpazo.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Exactly but didnt jesus say about the same as you did with a different ending?


If the entire nation of Israel repented and accepted Christ as messiah ……. It’s wouldnt bring to pass old covenant promises

Not one jot or tittle shall pass till all is fulfilled...Jesus.....being the word of God.
For Gods name sake.
Believe me its as much of a mystery to me as a unbelievable truth to you. Jesus the good shepherd calls them back. My sheep hear my voice.
[/QUOTE]
“Not one jot or tittle shall pass till all is fulfilled...Jesus.....being the word of God.”

right the cirses in the law had to be fulfilled because they broke it look what your saying there . On one hand youre saying the law needed to be fulfilled in the other in quoting from the law and what it says would happen if they didn’t keep the covenant …..

“But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: and thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee. Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long: and there shall be no might in thine hand. The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway: And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:15-16, 21, 28-29, 32-33, 37‬ ‭KJV‬‬


It was always this

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; in that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It was never “ if you break my covenant I’m going to fulfill the blessings in it “ it eas if you break my covenant I will fulfill all the curses written in it .

just a small sample there it eas always choice for israel a blessing and life or a curse and death they chose the curse and death by breaking thier covenant so like you say there gods words in the le have to be fulfilled ….I’m saying israel broke thier covenant and worshipped many false gods throughout the ot and were cursed and that means the blessing for keeping the covenant isn’t said to be coming to pass ot was a choice a blessing of curse .

So “ it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments…all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee…The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee. Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day long:thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway: And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee.
“Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: and they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.”
‭
I’s this going to be fulfilled or ? Even though they broke the covenant and didn’t obey are the other things he said would happen if they obeyed ?
I’m not the person here trying to dismiss Israel’s covenant word I’m saying it was fulfilled and they were given a new covenant a new beginning with God like he promised …..after they broke the covenant and became cursed as that clearly and plainly says would happen when they broke thier covenant

Gods words do have to be fulfilled that’s been my point had he said to them “ if you don’t obey don’t worry I’m going to bless you with all these blessings forever anyways “ I’d believe that bitninstead he said clearly “ if you do this thing you’ll be blessed but if you do this other thing you’ll be cursed “

Are you understanding my position at all yet ? You keep arguing things I wasn’t even saying . Can you acknowledge the curses strewn throughout the ones of the law and that israel broke thier covenant ?

 

[cv5]

The only nonsense is your ad hominem attacks. I simply asked about resurrection, THE core belief, the central pillar of Christianity, where is it - before your pre-trib rapture? Show me.

The resurrection of who? Moses? Lazarus? John the Baptist? The thief on the cross? Tribulation saints? Lost souls who died in their sins?

 

[Beekeeper]

Even your questions are addled inchoate biblically illiterate nonsense.

You said it yourself in post #1,989:
you "can't see".

But I certainly can. Perfect well....
"Revelations 20:4"

The psychology of dominance makes us all feel so small.

But seriously, another word for garbage is liter and in fairness to you I have to say that you are Biblically "literate" at least in that you pour a lot of garbage on anything Biblical.

 

[cv5]

The psychology of dominance makes us all feel so small.

But seriously, another word for garbage is liter and in fairness to you I have to say that you are Biblically "literate" at least in that you pour a lot of garbage on anything Biblical.

You know, after the last couple of days observing the responses on this thread, I thought it useful to conduct an experiment.

I attempted to engage my wife's potted plant in an intelligent, stimulating and edifying conversation.

Well, the results are in: the similarities were remarkable and the parallels spot on. Rather amazing actually.....

 

[cv5]

The psychology of dominance makes us all feel so small.

But seriously, another word for garbage is liter and in fairness to you I have to say that you are Biblically "literate" at least in that you pour a lot of garbage on anything Biblical.

Friend, all that you need to do is hang a sign on your door: 'Bible expert for hire.'

I expect fame, fortune, and a path beaten to your door wider than the 405 at rush hour.....

 

[Pilgrimshope]

May i ask why are you so insistent that this Israel we see today will not repent and receive Christ as there messiah.
Is any thing to hard for the Lord?
Have you and I as born again believers broken our covenant with the Lord? As Jesus said go and sin no more. Are we perfect as Jesus told us to be perfect as our father is perfect. I think the same thing could be said about the church we've received 7 letters about this.
We have false prophets, false teachers, idol worshipers even to the worshipers of believers under the name of Christianity.
We might say no these are not Christian but they are under the name of Christianity.
The wrath to come to evil doers does not point to one people's its pointing to those not found in Christ.
Jesus said such in the days of noah....but no one points out the fact that there were no jews or gentiles in his day.
Not knowing the population in Noah's day no fruit was harvested. So Noah remained on the earth until his purpose was fulfilled.

“Jesus said such in the days of noah....but no one points out the fact that there were no jews or gentiles in his day.”

because jesus isn’t speaking about Jews or gentiles there he’s talking about the sudden nature of his return and the end of the world. How everyone will be just life as usual and suddenly like in Noah’s time how the floods just suddenly came and everyone was drown and in soddom and Gomorrah’s time how the people were living thier dauly wicked lives and suddenly the fires came and destroyed them without warning ….

sometimes ( I’m not talking about you ) people misuse single verses maybe not even knowingly . We have to look closely to hear what he’s saying and consoder it

“But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:37-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see he’s not even adressing In any way jew or gentile he’s saying my return will be like in those days suddenly and with destruction .

Importantly he says this beforehand to setup what he’s saying

“But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus was always teaching deep things and clear regarding his kingdom …. look how much we could learn about Jesus return for instance by studying some of what he said about it consider Luke’s contemporary account

“For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; ( all of them are living normal life ) but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:24-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see the lesson he’s teaching is regarding his return has nothing to do with ethnicity or the identity of the dofferent peoples of the time . He’s using those events to teach a lesson about his return and the sudden unknown nature of it . He teaches alot more of course with the same message like this


“Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:42-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬


But the apostles also carry this consistent doctrine

“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-3‬ ‭

remember what Jesus was saying about people just living life and then suddenly there will come destruction at his coming ? It’s the same message Paul’s communicating he’s even using another thing Jesus told them about not knowing when a thief is going to come so be prepared always .

“ For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
hes using things they have read in scripture to teach them about his return later
Peter taught it also like Paul did
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we look for each subject and find out what Jesus and his apostles taught by the Holy Ghost it becomes clear and beautiful .

Just concerning his return there are a bunch of other lessons like that he repetitively taught in his sermons and the apostles then later taught in epistles

 

[Beekeeper]

You know, after the last couple of days observing the responses on this thread, I thought it useful to conduct an experiment.

I attempted to engage my wife's potted plant in an intelligent, stimulating and edifying conversation.

Well, the results are in: the similarities were remarkable and the parallels spot on. Rather amazing actually.....

Sounds like they must have been mustard trees.

 

[cv5]

Sounds like they must have been mustard trees.

Friends of yours perhaps?

 

[God-fearing]

“Jesus said such in the days of noah....but no one points out the fact that there were no jews or gentiles in his day.”

because jesus isn’t speaking about Jews or gentiles there he’s talking about the sudden nature of his return and the end of the world. How everyone will be just life as usual and suddenly like in Noah’s time how the floods just suddenly came and everyone was drown and in soddom and Gomorrah’s time how the people were living thier dauly wicked lives and suddenly the fires came and destroyed them without warning ….

sometimes ( I’m not talking about you ) people misuse single verses maybe not even knowingly . We have to look closely to hear what he’s saying and consoder it

“But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:37-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see he’s not even adressing In any way jew or gentile he’s saying my return will be like in those days suddenly and with destruction .

Importantly he says this beforehand to setup what he’s saying

“But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus was always teaching deep things and clear regarding his kingdom …. look how much we could learn about Jesus return for instance by studying some of what he said about it consider Luke’s contemporary account

“For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; ( all of them are living normal life ) but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:24-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see the lesson he’s teaching is regarding his return has nothing to do with ethnicity or the identity of the dofferent peoples of the time . He’s using those events to teach a lesson about his return and the sudden unknown nature of it . He teaches alot more of course with the same message like this


“Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:42-44‬ ‭KJV‬‬


But the apostles also carry this consistent doctrine

“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:1-3‬ ‭

remember what Jesus was saying about people just living life and then suddenly there will come destruction at his coming ? It’s the same message Paul’s communicating he’s even using another thing Jesus told them about not knowing when a thief is going to come so be prepared always .

“ For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
hes using things they have read in scripture to teach them about his return later
Peter taught it also like Paul did
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we look for each subject and find out what Jesus and his apostles taught by the Holy Ghost it becomes clear and beautiful .

Just concerning his return there are a bunch of other lessons like that he repetitively taught in his sermons and the apostles then later taught in epistles

You said...
see the lesson he’s teaching is regarding his return has nothing to do with ethnicity or the identity of the dofferent peoples of the time.

Exactly

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, no resurrection, no rapture. And there're only two resurrections, one for the saved, one for the unsaved, Dan. 12:2.

In the old covenant promised to Israel’s faithful

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12‭KJV‬‬

When Jesus rose from the dead

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”( past tense )
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In the ot theres promise of a resurrection of Christ and Israel’s faithful (the firstfruits of Christs resurrection ) when he came at first to israel and died and rose

and then a resurrection of all when the messiah returns from heaven at the end
so in Paul’s words

“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But every man in his own order: 1 Christ , the firstfruits;


2 afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

1 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”

2

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You said...
see the lesson he’s teaching is regarding his return has nothing to do with ethnicity or the identity of the dofferent peoples of the time.

Exactly

Agreed .

 

[God-fearing]

Exo 6:6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:

Exo 6:7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

Exo 6:8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

 

[Beekeeper]

Friends of yours perhaps?

Matthew 13:31
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

Absolutely.
I love gardening, because plants have much to teach about Jesus' heavenly kingdom.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Exo 6:6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:

Exo 6:7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.

Exo 6:8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

Yes he did this a few books later ! Before he did he gave them a law fornthier land making a covenant with them …..