What is the Abomination of Desolation?

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Your reading collapses because Daniel’s own structure forbids identifying Augustus and Tiberius as the kings of the north in Daniel 11:20–22, and it forbids identifying Rome as the little_horn_of_Daniel_8; Daniel 11 is explicitly about the Ptolemaic–Seleucid conflict (Dan 11:4–5), and the “raiser of taxes” in 11:20 is Seleucus IV, not Augustus, because the entire chapter is narrating the wars between the kings of the south and north, not jumping to Rome.
Likewise, Daniel 8’s “exceeding great” language does not refer to territorial size but directional expansion (east, south, toward the Beautiful Land), and the horn arises from one of the four Greek divisions, not from a fifth empire; Rome did not arise from the Diadochi, but Antiochus IV did, and he alone matches the sanctuary trampling, the removal of the daily sacrifice, the setting up of the abomination, and the persecution of the faithful — the exact pattern Daniel repeats in Daniel_11_31 and Daniel_12_11.
Your argument that the Seleucid Empire “never became greater than Alexander’s” misunderstands the Hebrew comparative: the horn is “exceeding great” relative to its targets, not relative to global empire size; Antiochus expanded farther east and south than any other post‑Alexander ruler and directly assaulted the covenant people, which is Daniel’s metric.
Rome is the fourth kingdom in Daniel 2 and 7, but Daniel 8 is explicitly Medo‑Persia → Greece → a horn from Greece; inserting Rome violates the angel’s own interpretation (Dan 8:20–22). And Daniel 11:22’s “prince of the covenant” is not Jesus under Tiberius but the high priest Onias III, killed during the Seleucid crisis — exactly where the narrative sits. Once you keep Daniel’s own historical sequence intact, Antiochus fits Daniel 8 and 11 precisely, Rome fits Daniel 2 and 7, and Jesus places the abomination future to His ministry (Matt 24:15), proving Antiochus is the type, not the final fulfillment.
Nope, Neither Ptolemaic not Seleucid can be King of the north.
Seleucid was the far western of the 4 kingdoms Grecia divided into. Ptolemaic was Egypt, King of the south.
Again, you are spouting out Jesuit writings published in the 1620s.
Specifically designed to point the finger away from the Vatican being the anti-christ.
The conflicts in Dan 11 between the kings of the north and the south was between Egypt and the Attalid Kingdom.
Which later became the Ottoman Empire and now modern-day Turkey.

You cannot ignore the specifics of the prophecies just to try to make a possible 100+ different events fit..

And no, neither Augustus not Tiberius can be Kings in the north.
The city of Rome (BEFORE it became a world controlling empire) was a far outpost of the Western Kingdom, The Antigonid Empire.
 
I think I am having one of those days- I cant make head nor tail of the argument here is - Care to simplify it for me ? I cant be bothered reading loads of text - sorry OMC but you are giving me information overload today, probably me not in the right mind :)

To put it simply his response @OMC was not at all connected to my post that >>>

"you (people hearing the words at the time having a direct bearing on them and their life) is you"

in scripture.

I am quite convinced it is a bot, 70 posts a day that is an astounding level of dedicated human effort.o_O
 
Nope, Neither Ptolemaic not Seleucid can be King of the north.
Seleucid was the far western of the 4 kingdoms Grecia divided into. Ptolemaic was Egypt, King of the south.
Again, you are spouting out Jesuit writings published in the 1620s.
Specifically designed to point the finger away from the Vatican being the anti-christ.
The conflicts in Dan 11 between the kings of the north and the south was between Egypt and the Attalid Kingdom.
Which later became the Ottoman Empire and now modern-day Turkey.

You cannot ignore the specifics of the prophecies just to try to make a possible 100+ different events fit..

And no, neither Augustus not Tiberius can be Kings in the north.
The city of Rome (BEFORE it became a world controlling empire) was a far outpost of the Western Kingdom, The Antigonid Empire
Your claim that “neither Ptolemaic nor Seleucid can be king of the north” is historically impossible, because Daniel 11 itself defines the king_of_the_north as the northern division of Alexander’s empire (Dan 11:4–5), and the Seleucid kingdom was not “far western” but the largest eastern‑northern successor state, stretching from Syria through Mesopotamia into Persia — precisely north of Israel, exactly where Daniel’s geography places the northern king; likewise, the Ptolemies ruled Egypt, exactly south of Israel, matching Daniel’s king of the south. The Attalids (Pergamum) were never the dominant northern power in the Diadochi wars, never controlled the territories Daniel describes, and never fit the campaigns of Dan 11:6–20; they were a minor western Anatolian kingdom absorbed by Rome in 133 BC. Your Ottoman/Turkey line is a modern geopolitical overlay, not Daniel’s geography. And Rome cannot be the king of the north because Rome did not arise from one of the four Greek horns (Dan 8:22), did not occupy the northern Seleucid territories during the Dan 11 conflicts, and is never called “north” in Daniel’s prophetic vocabulary. None of this comes from “Jesuit writings”; it comes from the text itself and from universally recognized ancient geography. Daniel’s kings of north and south are the Seleucid and Ptolemaic dynasties — the only powers that fit the actual locations, battles, successions, and campaigns Daniel enumerates.
 
Just to clarify - The Seleucid, or the Assyrian Empire was North of Jerusalem, and the Egyptian or the Ptolemaic Empire was South. The Majority of Daniel 11 concerns these Empires as the war against each other.
 
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Daniel 11:31 is Rome, in the previous verses Rome had to put a stop to Antiochus so it can not be about him, he was defeated already.

The arms shall stand - indicates a new power.
the abomination that maketh desolate. - is the same thing Jesus spoke about in Mark 13:14 and Matthew 24:15-21
which is the Roman Army destroying Jerusalem.
 
Daniel 11:31 is Rome, in the previous verses Rome had to put a stop to Antiochus so it can not be about him, he was defeated already.

The arms shall stand - indicates a new power.
the abomination that maketh desolate. - is the same thing Jesus spoke about in Mark 13:14 and Matthew 24:15-21
which is the Roman Army destroying Jerusalem.

Except for it was not an abomination from God's point of view.
 
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Except for it was not an abomination from God's point of view.
The abomination that maketh desolate is the Jews rejecting Christs Sacrifice - their continued Sacrifice was the abomination to God, the Roman Army was the Judgement
 
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Just to clarify - The Seleucid, or the Assyrian Empire was North of Jerusalem, and the Egyptian or the Ptolemaic Empire was South. The Majority of Daniel 11 concerns these Empires as the war against each other
That clarification is exactly right: the Seleucid kingdom sat north of Jerusalem and the Ptolemaic kingdom sat south, and the bulk of Daniel 11 traces the back‑and‑forth wars between those two Hellenistic powers — but that is precisely why your earlier claim that “neither Ptolemaic nor Seleucid can be king of the north” collapses, because Daniel’s own geography, battles, successions, and campaign routes match the Seleucid as the northern king and the Ptolemaic as the southern king; the text itself anchors the interpretation. The wars of Dan 11:5–20 are the Syrian Wars, the Seleucid–Ptolemaic conflict, not Attalid, Ottoman, or modern Turkish history. Once you grant the geography you just affirmed, the entire chapter locks into place exactly as the historical sequence shows.
 
That clarification is exactly right: the Seleucid kingdom sat north of Jerusalem and the Ptolemaic kingdom sat south, and the bulk of Daniel 11 traces the back‑and‑forth wars between those two Hellenistic powers —
Ok so far

but that is precisely why your earlier claim that “neither Ptolemaic nor Seleucid can be king of the north” collapses, because Daniel’s own geography, battles, successions, and campaign routes match the Seleucid as the northern king and the Ptolemaic as the southern king; the text itself anchors the interpretation. The wars of Dan 11:5–20 are the Syrian Wars, the Seleucid–Ptolemaic conflict, not Attalid, Ottoman, or modern Turkish history. Once you grant the geography you just affirmed, the entire chapter locks into place exactly as the historical sequence shows.
When have I ever said that ? Never ! You must be getting mixed up with someone else's post
 
That clarification is exactly right: the Seleucid kingdom sat north of Jerusalem and the Ptolemaic kingdom sat south, and the bulk of Daniel 11 traces the back‑and‑forth wars between those two Hellenistic powers — but that is precisely why your earlier claim that “neither Ptolemaic nor Seleucid can be king of the north” collapses, because Daniel’s own geography, battles, successions, and campaign routes match the Seleucid as the northern king and the Ptolemaic as the southern king; the text itself anchors the interpretation. The wars of Dan 11:5–20 are the Syrian Wars, the Seleucid–Ptolemaic conflict, not Attalid, Ottoman, or modern Turkish history. Once you grant the geography you just affirmed, the entire chapter locks into place exactly as the historical sequence shows.
Just found the post you must be on about it was from Davidstarr post 101
 
Glad we got that cleared up

Jesus was the last sacrifice - his blood paid for all mankind/humanity

Remember he was the beginning and the end - the Alpha and the Omega
 
Anyone NOT recall that Isaac was about to be sacrificed but the Angel stopped Abraham from doing so, on the exact same spot where Jesus' body/flesh was sacrificed.
 
Anyone NOT recall that Isaac was about to be sacrificed but the Angel stopped Abraham from doing so, on the exact same spot where Jesus' body/flesh was sacrificed
The binding of Isaac on Mount Moriah (Gen 22:2) and the crucifixion of Christ on the Jerusalem temple mount are intentionally connected, but Scripture never claims Jesus died on the exact spot where Isaac was laid. It only states that both events took place in the same mountain region God chose as the site for substitutionary sacrifice. You’re not wrong—it’s the same mountain, just not the exact spot.
 
The binding of Isaac on Mount Moriah (Gen 22:2) and the crucifixion of Christ on the Jerusalem temple mount are intentionally connected, but Scripture never claims Jesus died on the exact spot where Isaac was laid. It only states that both events took place in the same mountain region God chose as the site for substitutionary sacrifice. You’re not wrong—it’s the same mountain, just not the exact spot.
Mount Moriah? Or temple mount. How far is Mount Moriah from Mount Zion or are the part of the same mountain range.

It's in Jerusalem at any rate. The temple was built on Mount Moriah where Abraham sacrificed the lamb.
 
Golgotha/Calvary - is where exactly in relation to Mount Moraiah/Zion?
 
Mount Moriah? Or temple mount. How far is Mount Moriah from Mount Zion or are the part of the same mountain range.

It's in Jerusalem at any rate. The temple was built on Mount Moriah where Abraham sacrificed the lamb
Mount Moriah and the Temple Mount are the same ridge,