Man imputed Jesus with sin on the cross, not God.

[OMC]

If Jesus Christ was imputed with all men's sins to pay the price for all men's sins, then nobody needs to accept it, because it's already done by God and Jesus Christ alone.

By the death of Jesus Christ alone, no man pays any price for inquity any more.

If Jesus Christ was wrongly imputed with sin, and unjustly crucified on the cross, then all men that sin must accept our guilt in His unjust death.

But nobody is forced to repent, and not pay the price for sin by His resurrection from the dead.

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

You’re trying to force a binary Scripture never teaches: either Christ’s death automatically saves everyone with no response, or His death was “unjust” and therefore sinners must repent to fix the injustice.
But the Bible’s own categories resolve this:
Christ’s death is objectively sufficient for all, but only applied to those who repent and believe — that’s the consistent pattern from Acts to Romans.

 

[ATG]

Once again, the prophecy and argument of Scripture is left uncorrected, and so still stands true as argued:

God did not impute any sin to His own righteous Son the cross, but only unbelieving men esteemed Him guilty and smitten of God as by law.

It was Gods plan to save mankind to make Jesus the atoning sacrifice and propitiation for his wrath against man’s sin .

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. But if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Jesus is made the propitiation for sins. Wrath of God remains for continued sinning against God and His Lamb:

Rom 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Eph 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

The false tradition of being delivered from wrath alone, and not from sinning, is the same lie of not being condemned by our own sinning.

The righteous soul of Jesus Christ, did not pay the death price of sin for Himself, and especially not for the souls sinning against Him.

The son of God's body of flesh died on the cross, not His soul. His body went to the grave, His soul went to preach in hell, not suffer torment for sin.

 

[ATG]

The sin sacrifice was innocent and spotless but the high priest by command of God would transfer the sin of the people onto the head of the sacrifice .

Another false teaching to support a false tradition.

Lev 4:28
Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.

Lev 4:29
And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.

No Scripture says that the sin of the person offering the sin sacrfice, has their sin imputed to nor laid upon the sacrice. The sin is laid upon them that commit sin. The hand of the sinner is laid upon sin offering.

It's a sin offering, because it's only offered due to sinning, not because offering is imputed with sinning.

The peace offering is because it's only offered with peace of thanksgiving, not because the offering is imputed with peace.

The whole tradition of the sin offering having the sin imputed and laid upon it, is the false symbolism of man alone. Sin is not symbolic, nor is the wrath of God for sinning against Him. The sin of one soul cannot be 'symbolically transferred' to another, nor the wrath of God upon the sinner.

Jesus Christ the Lamb of God who had no sin, could not have any sin imputed to Him, any more than a dumb beast, that knows nothing of good or evil.

The lie of God symbolically imputing and transferring the sin of the sinner to the sin sacrifice in the OT, is the same lie of symbolically imputing and transferring the sin of all sinners to Jesus Christ.

When God imputes sin, His wrath is upon the sinner. Neither sin nor wrath is symbolic with God, but only with men's decieved imagination.

 

[ATG]

God is behind jesus taking upon himself man’s sin in full and dying for it that’s all I’m saying .

God was indeed behind Jesus' death, not the One killing Him. Only the Son's body died for obediently submitting to the hands of sinners, by commandment of the Father.

The Son's soul certainly did not die as by sin. God the son did not die on a cross, but only His natural body by sinfully beating and cruciyiubnf Him to death.

The sins laid upon the Son by submission of the Son, were the sins committed against His body unto death.

No sin was laid upon the Son's soul by the Father, whose soul knew no sin upon the cross, even unto death of the body.

God formed the plan and carried it out

Both God and the Word planned from the beginning to come in the flesh and die for sin, when Adam and all men transgressed against Him

The Father commanded the Son, and the Son perfectly obeyed the Father. God did not do it to the Son, as though without His consent. And God certainly did not kill His Son, as though imputing Him with sin.

 

[OMC]

A common Christian tradition is that God imputed our sins to His Son Jesus on the cross, so that He would pay the price of our sins instead of us.

First, No Scripture ever says that the righteous God imputes any evil to the righteous, especially not the sins of those doing unrighteousness. And by no means to His own Son Jesus Christ the righteous, who never sinned, nor knew any sin in His own soul and life.

What is the Scripture, that is abused by men to say. that God did impute sin, and esteem Jesus legally guilty, and smitten by law?

Isa 53:34:
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Who is it, that Scriptures says will impute Jesus Christ with sin, and esteem Him smitten of God on the cross, as if by law of God? God Himself, or man? Only man, not God.

And so, we see the prophecy was not of God Himself esteeming Jesus guilty of sin unto death by law, but only of sinful men believing He was guilty of blasphemy and smitten by law:

Mar 14:64
Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

Only men imputed Jesus with sin of blasphemy, and esteemed Him guilty by law and smitten of God on the cross. Not God Himself at all...And only some men still believe by false tradition, the lie that God imputed His Son with sin, and made Him legally guilty of sin unto death.

Jesus Christ was the Christ and Son of God on earth, and not a blasphemer, even though all men believed otherwise at the cross, and in death. No one went to His tomb on the third day to watch Him rise again, as He said, but only to anoint His dead body...

Your claim collapses because you stop at Isaiah 53:4 (“we esteemed Him stricken”) and ignore the very next verses where God Himself says what He actually did.
Men misjudged Jesus as guilty — true — but Scripture explicitly says God laid sin on Him:
“The LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all” (Isa 53:6),
“He shall bear their iniquities” (53:11),
“He bare the sin of many” (53:12).
That is divine imputation, not human accusation.
Paul repeats the same truth: “He hath made Him to be sin for us” (2 Cor 5:21).
And Isaiah says His soul was the sin‑offering: “Thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin” (Isa 53:10).
Isaiah 53:4 describes human misunderstanding, but Isaiah 53:6–12 describes God’s actual atonement.
The tradition you reject is not a tradition — it is the plain text of Scripture

Isa 53:34:
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

The prophet says that 'we' wrongly imputed Jesus with sin of blasphemy on the cross. Not just His false accusers and crucifiers, but also all His disciples:

Jhn 16:32
Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone:

All men believed Jesus was made guilty of sin by blasphemy at the cross, because no man believed He could be the Christ and Son of God and yet be handing from a tree at all, much less as by law.

None of His own disciples believed He was indeed the Son of God on the cross, because none of them believed the Scriptures, that prophecied His own affliction and crcuifixion by sinful men, accusing Him of blasphemy and smitten by God:

Luk 24:20
And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

His disciples still believed Jesus was imputed with sin and guilty by God, and smitten by law for blasphemy. Because they did not believe the prophecuies of His on false accusation and suffering at the hands of sinners.

Again, your entire argument collapses because you freeze Isaiah 53 at verse 4 (“we esteemed Him stricken”) and treat that as the whole doctrine, while ignoring the very next verses where God Himself says what He actually did.
Isaiah distinguishes human misunderstanding (53:4) from divine imputation (53:6, 10–12).
Yes — men wrongly thought Jesus was guilty of blasphemy;
yes — the disciples scattered and doubted;
yes — they failed to believe the prophecies of His suffering.
But Isaiah does not say their misunderstanding was the truth of the atonement.
Scripture says the opposite: “The LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all” (Isa 53:6),
“He shall bear their iniquities” (53:11),
“He bare the sin of many” (53:12).
That is God’s action, not man’s opinion.
And Jesus rebukes the disciples not because He was not the sin‑bearer, but because they failed to believe the prophets who said He must suffer (Luke 24:25–27).
Romans 1:3–4 does not deny imputation; it declares the resurrection as the public vindication of the One who bore sin and was raised in righteousness.
The short biblical chain is unavoidable:
men misjudged Him (Isa 53:4),
God laid sin on Him (53:6),
He bore it (53:11–12),
He died for it (Rom 4:25),
He rose vindicated (Rom 1:4), and sinners receive that justification through repentance and faith (Acts 3:19; Rom 10:9–10).
Your reading preserves the disciples’ confusion; the text itself corrects it.

 

[ATG]

You’re trying to force a binary Scripture never teaches: either Christ’s death automatically saves everyone with no response, or His death was “unjust” and therefore sinners must repent to fix the injustice.

You're mistaking the Scriptural conclusion of a false tradition: If anyone is justified by Jesus' death alone, and does not have to pay the price of sin and death of the soul, then everyone is justified and pays no price for sinning.

Because, Jesus died for all men, and is the propitiation for all sins. Not just for those that believe, but also for those that believe not.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. But if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Therefore, the false tradition of Jesus paying the soul's death price for sin, must be for all men that sin, and not only for them that believe the lie.

However, if Jesus did not pay the soul's death price for sin, but only died for sinners to repent, then only them that believe in His resurrection and repent of sinning against Him, are saved and justified from their sins.

The souls that believe and repent not, still pay the deth price for their own sinning against Christ.

Christ’s death is objectively sufficient for all, but only applied to those who repent and believe — that’s the consistent pattern from Acts to Romans.

Correct. This is the gospel of Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures.

No matter the past sinning, His propitation is sufficient for all sinning, that is repented of for His name's sake.

The injustice committed against Jesus at the cross, is not fixed nor undone, but only the price for continued sinning is remitted by repentance by His resurrection.

The bad binary is only because of false tradition and gospel of men, that believe they are justified at the cross, by sinful men killing Him contrary to law.

 

[OMC]

You're mistaking the Scriptural conclusion of a false tradition: If anyone is justified by Jesus' death alone, and does not have to pay the price of sin and death of the soul, then everyone is justified and pays no price for sinning.

Because, Jesus died for all men, and is the propitiation for all sins. Not just for those that believe, but also for those that believe not.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. But if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Therefore, the false tradition of Jesus paying the soul's death price for sin, must be for all men that sin, and not only for them that believe the lie.

However, if Jesus did not pay the soul's death price for sin, but only died for sinners to repent, then only them that believe in His resurrection and repent of sinning against Him, are saved and justified from their sins.

The souls that believe and repent not, still pay the deth price for their own sinning against Christ.

Your conclusion still collapses because you’re building a false either/or the Bible never teaches:
either Christ’s propitiation means every human is automatically justified, or
Christ didn’t pay anything and only “died to inspire repentance.”

But Scripture itself gives the correct three‑part chain:
(1) Christ’s death is sufficient for all — “the propitiation… for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2);
(2) Christ’s death is not applied to all — only “he that believeth” is justified (Rom 10:9–10; Acts 3:19);
(3) those who refuse to repent still “pay the death price” because they remain under wrath (John 3:36; Rom 2:5).

Propitiation does not equal automatic justification; it means the sacrifice is big enough for all, but only received by those who believe.
Your logic (“if Jesus paid the death price, then everyone is justified”) is exactly what Scripture denies: “He is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe” (1 Tim 4:10).
Christ’s death is universal in provision, not universal in application.
The souls who refuse repentance “die in their sins” (John 8:24) not because Christ failed to pay, but because they refuse the only way that payment is applied — repentance and faith.

 

[Gideon300]

If Jesus Christ was imputed with all men's sins to pay the price for all men's sins, then nobody needs to accept it, because it's already done by God and Jesus Christ alone.

By the death of Jesus Christ alone, no man pays any price for inquity any more.

If Jesus Christ was wrongly imputed with sin, and unjustly crucified on the cross, then all men that sin must accept our guilt in His unjust death.

But nobody is forced to repent, and not pay the price for sin by His resurrection from the dead.

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Suppose you went to court on a serious charge. You are guilty. The judge declares you guilty. But he says that someone has paid the Trillion dollar fine for you. Accept your guilt and the payment of the fine, and you will go free. But you refuse. As far as you are concerned, you did no wrong and the court has no right to fine you. Since the fine is unpaid, you are guilty, you must pay the fine yourself or suffer the consequences. Except you cannot. So you are thrown into prison until you pay up. And that means never. You can't work in prison, so its over for you,

The fine represents the death of Jesus. He tasted death for every man. I looked it up in the Greek. Every means every. (Hebrews 2:9). He who knew no sin was made sin on our behalf. (2 Corinthians 5:21). Adam represents every man in sin and death. Lord Jesus represents man in holiness and righteousness.

1 Corinthians 15:20-23
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

No one is forced to accept Christ. However, Jesus died and paid the price for all the sin of all mankind forever. Think about it. How many of your sins were current when Jesus died? The answer is obvious: none. So Jesus had to have paid for your sins when He died on the cross. It became true in your experience when you accept Christ. And so it is for all of humanity.​

Not subject in God's eyes. Because the God I see described in scripture is not vindictive, not demanding bloody sacrifice and that sinners suffer for their sins against Him, but His mercy triumphs over judgment. As David understood Him to be.

Psa 51:16
For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Psa 51:17
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

I think you have a different God from the God of the Bible. God is not vindictive but He is holy and righteous. That means that sin must be paid for. Just one example (the abridged version). Joshua was fooled by the Gibeonites and so made a covenant with them. They were not to suffer the fate of the other tribes that occupied the promised land. King Saul was ignorant of the covenant and waged war on the Gibeonites. Saul thought that he was doing the right thing. He was good at being presumptuous. Even after Saul died. God judged Israel with famine for the sin of breaking the covenant with the Gibeonites. David sought the Lord and so found the answer.

David asked the Gibeonites how the sin could be expiated. The answer was the death of seven of Saul's sons. Those seven sons were hanged, God's justice was done and the famine lifted.

Those seven sons were not responsible for Saul's wrongdoing. They paid the price anyway. Israel was obeying the command of Saul. The whole of Israel suffered the consequences, even though they were not personally responsible. God is merciful and gracious, but not to be messed with.

 

[Gideon300]

Isa 53:5
But he was wounded out of / because of our transgressions (M-PSha'eNU), he was bruised out of/because of our iniquities (M-'aOnNTheNU: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and in/with his stripes (U-B-aKhaBeRaThU) we are healed.
Isa 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath caused to light (HiPhGiYa' , Hiphil perfect) in Him (B-U) the iniquity of us all.

This may be saying that He was wounded because OUR transgressions wounded Him; He was bruised because OUR iniquities bruised Him. In other words WE practised transgressions and iniquities against Him. When He prayed for our forgiveness as OUR chastisement of Him wounded Him, we learned that God is wanting to reconcile with wicked people, not to strike back at them, and so we can come to Him without fear to make peace with Him.
All we like sheep have transgressed. We have all turned to doing our own iniquities. And by leaving Jesus in our midst when WE were wanting to murder Him, JHWH caused him to suffer at OUR iniquitous hands. God could hve delivered Jesus before WE murdered Him, but He chose to leave Him in OUR power. In this way, He cause Jesus to experience in Himself the effects of our iniquity being poured out BY US on Him.

Hence, God was not the one afflicting Jesus. We were.

Isaiah 53 contradicts you.

 

[PaulThomson]

Isaiah 53 contradicts you.

You think Is 53 contradicts me. I exegeted the verses above to show how they can be understood from a different perspective that of the theory of Penal Substitutionary Atonement

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Once again, the prophecy and argument of Scripture is left uncorrected, and so still stands true as argued:

God did not impute any sin to His own righteous Son the cross, but only unbelieving men esteemed Him guilty and smitten of God as by law.



1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. But if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Jesus is made the propitiation for sins. Wrath of God remains for continued sinning against God and His Lamb:

Rom 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Eph 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

The false tradition of being delivered from wrath alone, and not from sinning, is the same lie of not being condemned by our own sinning.

The righteous soul of Jesus Christ, did not pay the death price of sin for Himself, and especially not for the souls sinning against Him.

The son of God's body of flesh died on the cross, not His soul. His body went to the grave, His soul went to preach in hell, not suffer torment for sin.

“God did not impute any sin to His own righteous Son the cross, but only unbelieving men esteemed Him guilty and smitten of God as by law.”

“Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:1, 5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins,

should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:22-25‬ ‭

“but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s all I was saying

“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:21‬ ‭

“so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus bearing mans sin was Gods work not mankind’s . Regardless if you or any man tried to “ impute sin “ on Jesus it would fail and be irrelevant . God ms plan was for him to bear our sins willingly in order to redeem man from sin itself


you should look at the sacrificial system in the ot and see how that operates it’s a pattern for Jesus the lambs sacrifice for sinful mankind

 

[ATG]

“Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Heb 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

The LORD had no pleasure in commanding His beloeved Son to submit to being sacrificed unjustly by evil men.

The pleasure of the LORD was looking beyond to His Son's resurrection, and wicked men repenting for sinning against Him:

Heb 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
God doesn't take pleasure in the death of the wicked, much less of righteous slain by the wicked.

And so, we are seeing how the false tradition of God imputing sin and guilt to His Son, which is disproven by Is 53:34, leads to the false accusation of God being pleased with Jesus' suffering and death, the same as those who falsely accused and hung Him on a tree...

Mar 14:64
Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

Psa 22:16
For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

“The soul of God did not die by sin on the cross,”

“And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

1Pe 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Jesus died bodily, not spiritually. His body was carried to a tomb, while His Soul went to preach victory to the saints in prison.

god is a spirit

And God did not die, who cannot die, for His souls is from everlasting to everlasting.

It was his choice and design because he wants to save us

Because He wants us to save us from sinning and crucifying Him on a cross, and from crucifying Him afresh to ourselves today.

Everyone that has sinned, has nailed Him to a cross. Everyone that is sinning, is crucifying Him afresh to themselves.

If we say we are not guilty of His innocent blood shed on a cross, then we say we have not sinned against Christ, and He need not have come to die for us by man's own sinful hands.

Jesus Christ must come in the flesh to die because of our sinning against Him. Our sins nailed Him to a cross. We all that have sinned were guilty of His shed blood.

If we repent of sinning against Him, His blood by the Spirit washes us clean from past sinning. If we repent not and continue to sin, then we remain guilty of His past shed blood.

“who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Look at the outcome …….. for us to save us ! it’s always for us it’s what makes him so lovely

Jesus was not lovely on the cross, which is what makes us so guilty for sinning against Him:

Isa 53:34
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isa 52:14
As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
Decorating the cross Jesus hung on, with a tradition of being lovely and justified, is the wicked tradition of them that killed the prophets and the Son of God:

Mat 23:29
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

 

[ATG]

No. Man cannot impute anything upon God. It would make him as authoritative as God.

Plenty of people impute all manner of accusations and lies upon God. Wrongly. Even as they all did upon the Son of God at the cross. Wrongly.

Isa 53:34
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

The devil imputed the LORD with envy in the garden, and imputed the Son with blasphemy on a cross. The devil was a liar from the beginning, and false traditions of men are his teachings against God and His Son.

Mat 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the traditions of men.

While all sin may be against God,

No may be, but all sinning is against God. Especially the sinning of people wrongly naming His Son's name, as being imputed with sin and smitten of God as by law.

this in no way imputes our sin on Him.

The false tradition imputes our sins upon His soul, rather than only laying our sinful stripes upon His body.

As well, none of the verses you cite say man imputes their sin on Christ.

Correct. That's only the false traidtion, that says we are justified at the cross, by imputing our sins upon His soul and hanging His body on a tree.

Just because a group condemns an individual, that doesn't rise to the level of imputing sin.

Scripture's imputing sin is esteeming guilty by sinful works:

1Sa 22:15
Did I then begin to enquire of God for him? be it far from me: let not the king impute any thing unto his servant, nor to all the house of my father: for thy servant knew nothing of all this, less or more.
Lev 17:4
And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:

Rom 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

All men everywhere at the cross did esteem Jesus guilty of sin of blasphemy, and worthy of death by law of God.

God Himself is the only One that did not impute Jesus with any sin of any man on earth, knowing His beloved Son had no sin, nor was worthy of death.

Mat 12:18
Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the nations.

Mat 3:17
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear ye him.

Jhn 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Jhn 16:32
Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.
Only the Father stood with His Son on the cross. All men everywhere esteemed Him guilty of sin, and worthy of death as by law. We all falsley imputed the Son with sin, but not God:

Rom 10:16
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report…For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

Unbelief in Jesus as Son of God, and imputing sin to Him on the cross, does not make the faith of the Father in the Son of no effect, even when hanging on a tree by all men's wicked hands.

Simply put, none of the verses you cite means what you say.

Simply put, none of the tradition you teach is Scripture of truth.

Isa 53:3
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Believe this report first, that you may believe the truth of the following Scriptures for Jesus' suffering and death at the hands of men, not of God.

Or, keep the tradition you choose, that our sins were imputed to the Son, as by God, that we may be justified by His death, as by law.

No man is justified at the cross of Jesus' death at the hands of wicked men. Men can still say we were justified by crucifying Him as by law, but Jesus and God knows He was crucified by us unbelievers abusing of the law.

1Co 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
Anyone still saying Jesus was accursed by God on a tree, and not only by lying men, has not the Spirit of God and truth.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Heb 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

The LORD had no pleasure in commanding His beloeved Son to submit to being sacrificed unjustly by evil men.

The pleasure of the LORD was looking beyond to His Son's resurrection, and wicked men repenting for sinning against Him:

Heb 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
God doesn't take pleasure in the death of the wicked, much less of righteous slain by the wicked.

And so, we are seeing how the false tradition of God imputing sin and guilt to His Son, which is disproven by Is 53:34, leads to the false accusation of God being pleased with Jesus' suffering and death, the same as those who falsely accused and hung Him on a tree...

Mar 14:64
Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

Psa 22:16
For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.


1Pe 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Jesus died bodily, not spiritually. His body was carried to a tomb, while His Soul went to preach victory to the saints in prison.



And God did not die, who cannot die, for His souls is from everlasting to everlasting.



Because He wants us to save us from sinning and crucifying Him on a cross, and from crucifying Him afresh to ourselves today.

Everyone that has sinned, has nailed Him to a cross. Everyone that is sinning, is crucifying Him afresh to themselves.

If we say we are not guilty of His innocent blood shed on a cross, then we say we have not sinned against Christ, and He need not have come to die for us by man's own sinful hands.

Jesus Christ must come in the flesh to die because of our sinning against Him. Our sins nailed Him to a cross. We all that have sinned were guilty of His shed blood.

If we repent of sinning against Him, His blood by the Spirit washes us clean from past sinning. If we repent not and continue to sin, then we remain guilty of His past shed blood.

Jesus was not lovely on the cross, which is what makes us so guilty for sinning against Him:

Isa 53:34
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isa 52:14
As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:
Decorating the cross Jesus hung on, with a tradition of being lovely and justified, is the wicked tradition of them that killed the prophets and the Son of God:

Mat 23:29
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

“Because He wants us to save us from sin”

right that’s why he put mans sin upon Jesus . You should probably try to understand the sacrificial system in the ot and see how the sun was transferred onto the sacrifice by the high priest ……..but again this is the point

“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;

that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬
It’s simple
“so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬
“who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This was Gods plan for Christ like the Old Testament sin sacrifice to have the sins of the people out upon his head and then die for them carrying them far away like the scapegoat .


Atonement for mans sin is Gods Will not man’s , and Christ as the sacrifice who would bear sin also Gods plan not man’s. Man couldn’t “impute “ anything upon Christ Gods Will was to put man’s sin upon him on the cross .

Using The term “ impute “ could be the issue we don’t have any authority to impute anything upon ourselves or anyone else. God by his Will placed mans sin upon Christ and he became the sacrifice of atonement once for all

But …….you have the last word this seems like a futile thread

 

[Cameron143]

Plenty of people impute all manner of accusations and lies upon God. Wrongly. Even as they all did upon the Son of God at the cross. Wrongly.

Isa 53:34
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

The devil imputed the LORD with envy in the garden, and imputed the Son with blasphemy on a cross. The devil was a liar from the beginning, and false traditions of men are his teachings against God and His Son.

Mat 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the traditions of men.



No may be, but all sinning is against God. Especially the sinning of people wrongly naming His Son's name, as being imputed with sin and smitten of God as by law.


The false tradition imputes our sins upon His soul, rather than only laying our sinful stripes upon His body.



Correct. That's only the false traidtion, that says we are justified at the cross, by imputing our sins upon His soul and hanging His body on a tree.



Scripture's imputing sin is esteeming guilty by sinful works:

1Sa 22:15
Did I then begin to enquire of God for him? be it far from me: let not the king impute any thing unto his servant, nor to all the house of my father: for thy servant knew nothing of all this, less or more.
Lev 17:4
And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:

Rom 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

All men everywhere at the cross did esteem Jesus guilty of sin of blasphemy, and worthy of death by law of God.

God Himself is the only One that did not impute Jesus with any sin of any man on earth, knowing His beloved Son had no sin, nor was worthy of death.

Mat 12:18
Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the nations.

Mat 3:17
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear ye him.

Jhn 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Jhn 16:32
Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.
Only the Father stood with His Son on the cross. All men everywhere esteemed Him guilty of sin, and worthy of death as by law. We all falsley imputed the Son with sin, but not God:

Rom 10:16
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report…For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

Unbelief in Jesus as Son of God, and imputing sin to Him on the cross, does not make the faith of the Father in the Son of no effect, even when hanging on a tree by all men's wicked hands.

Simply put, none of the tradition you teach is Scripture of truth.

Isa 53:3
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Believe this report first, that you may believe the truth of the following Scriptures for Jesus' suffering and death at the hands of men, not of God.

Or, keep the tradition you choose, that our sins were imputed to the Son, as by God, that we may be justified by His death, as by law.

No man is justified at the cross of Jesus' death at the hands of wicked men. Men can still say we were justified by crucifying Him as by law, but Jesus and God knows He was crucified by us unbelievers abusing of the law.

1Co 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
Anyone still saying Jesus was accursed by God on a tree, and not only by lying men, has not the Spirit of God and truth.

Your basic understanding of imputation is flawed. You are conflating imputation to ascription. We can ascribe to God things that are true of Him, and even falsely ascribe things to Him. We cannot, however, impute things to Him. For example, we can ascribe holiness to God, but we cannot confer holiness upon Him. We have no such power.

 

[ATG]

“God did not impute any sin to His own righteous Son the cross, but only unbelieving men esteemed Him guilty and smitten of God as by law.”

“Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:1, 5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins,

should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:22-25‬ ‭

“but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s all I was saying

“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:21‬ ‭

“so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Isa 53:34
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

So far, every person holding to the false tradition of God imputing His Son with sin, has yet to so much as quote the first Scripture prophecying, that only men impute Jesus with sin.

Once we believe the simple truth of God's words, that God never imputes Jesus with sin, then you can rightly teach the Scriptures for how God commanded the Son to submit to men's imputation of sin, and smiting Him as by law.

Or, continue to reject the Scripture, and teach the lie that God imputes His Son with sin on a cross.

 

[ATG]

Jesus bearing mans sin was Gods work not mankind’s

God says otherwise.

Isaiah{50:5}
The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

Psa 22:16

For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

Act 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Jesus obediently submitting Himself into the hands of wicked men by God's command, was God's work. Jesus being beaten and smitten by wicked hands, was mankind's work.

Mat 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the traditions of men.
Anyone saying we are not guilty of unlawfully crucifying the Son to a cross, by our sins against Him, is saying we have not sinned against Him...

. Regardless if you or any man tried to “ impute sin “ on Jesus it would fail and be irrelevant .

It was not irrelavant for wicked men to impute Jesus with sin of blapshemy and nail Him to a cross.

God ms plan was for him to bear our sins willingly in order to redeem man from sin itself

And He did bear our sinning against His body unto death, in obedience to the Father, that He may rise again and justify us that repent of sinning against Him.

Jesus' soul bore no sin of any man, for He had no sin of men. God does not have sin imputed to the righteous, that have no sin.

No man was redeemed and justified at the cross by the Son, but all men are guilty of shedding His innocent blood by sinning against Him in His body:

1 Pe 2:22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth. Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree..

 

[ATG]

you should look at the sacrificial system in the ot and see how that operates it’s a pattern for Jesus the lambs sacrifice for sinful mankind

The false tradition of God imputing His Lamb with sin, and laying guilt of sin upon His soul, begins with the older false tradition of God laying sin upon the sacrifice for sin.

The transgressor laying hands on the sacrifce, was not God laying any transgression upon the scrifical beast. No more than the peace maker laying hands on the offering, makes peace to be laid upon it.

The sin sacrifice is so called, because the transgressor is offering it, not because the sacrifice is made to be sin by God.

The peace offering is so called, because the peace maker is offering it, not because the sacrifice is made to be peace of God.

Whether laying hands on the sin or peace offering, neither makes the offering the sin nor peace of the one offering it.

So also sinful men laying hands on the Lamb of God, was not God making Him to be sin toward God.

God made Him to submit to sinful men, that He might be made sin to men, so that all men should become guilty by law of shedding the Son of man's innocent blood on a cross, the Jew first and also the Gentile.

So that by His resurrection from the dead with power to judge all men, He might deliver and justify any man, that repents of sinning against Him on the cross, the Jew first and also the Gentile.

 

[ATG]

You have erroneously conflated "accused of sin" with "imputed with sin". They don't mean the same thing.

In Christian false tradition it doesn't, but in Scripture of God it does.

To accuse is to impute. No man can impute any sin to another, without first accusing of sin.

1Sa 22:15
Did I then begin to enquire of God for him? be it far from me: let not the king impute any thing unto his servant, nor to all the house of my father: for thy servant knew nothing of all this, less or more.

Lev 17:4
And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:

At the cross, we had to first impute Jesus with sin of blasphemy, in order toe steem Him guilty and smitten of God, as by law.

False traditions requre redefining words apart from God's written words, in order to make a new definition suitable to men's own minds and traditions.

1 Tim 6:3
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

 

[Dino246]

False traditions requre redefining words apart from God's written words, in order to make a new definition suitable to men's own minds and traditions.

You said it yourself. I provided the dictionary definitions of the words. You redefine them to make them suitable to your mind.