looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

[OMC]

Jesus did not come to destroy the moral law; He came to magnify it and show us how to keep it through His strength.
However, His death did abolish the "law of commandments contained in ordinances" Ephesians 2:15.

When Christ died, the veil of the temple was rent, signifying that the earthly system of sacrifices and typical ordinances had met its fulfillment in Him.
Now, instead of writing His moral law on tables of stone, He promises to write it in our hearts through the New Covenant Hebrews 8:10.

By looking to Jesus, we see the harmony of the two: the moral law shows us our need for a Savior, and the fulfillment of the ceremonial law provides the Savior we need Galatians 3:24.

Your core point is partly right but the framework is not biblical:
Jesus magnifies God’s moral will, but the NT never divides Moses’ law into “moral vs. ceremonial.”
Ephesians 2:15 says Christ abolished the law of commandments in ordinances — the Mosaic covenantal code as a whole — not just sacrifices.
Hebrews 8:10 does not say “the Ten Commandments are written on the heart,” but that God’s law is internalized by the Spirit. Galatians 3:24 shows the law leading us to Christ, but once faith comes “we are no longer under a tutor.”
God’s moral will is eternal; the Mosaic form of that will is not.

 

[TMS]

Your entire argument rests on a distinction Scripture never makes: the Bible nowhere separates the Ten Commandments into “moral” versus “ceremonial,” and nowhere treats the fourth commandment as morally eternal while the others are typological shadows; that framework is a human grid laid over the text, not a biblical category.
The Sabbath is included in the Ten not because it is an eternal moral principle but because it is the covenant sign of the Mosaic administration (Exod 31:13–17), the badge marking Israel’s national relationship to YHWH; that is why God placed it in the Decalogue — not because its calendar form is universal, but because the Ten Words function as the covenant preamble.

Paul’s triad — “festival, new moon, sabbaths” (Col 2:16–17) — is the standard Jewish formula for annual / monthly / weekly observances, and he calls them shadows fulfilled in Christ.
The moral principle of rest, worship, and trust is eternal; the seventh‑day calendar sign is not.
Exodus 20:11 gives the creation rationale for Israel’s covenant sign, not a universal moral law binding the church.
Your claim is legalistic‑covenant conflation, treating Israel’s covenant sign as a timeless moral command.

How is the 4th commandment a typological shadow?

It was made for man before sin.

 

[OMC]

How is the 4th commandment a typological shadow?

It was made for man before sin.

The fourth commandment becomes a typological shadow not because it first appears in Eden, but because God Himself assigns it a typological, covenant‑sign function under Moses — and Scripture explicitly treats that covenant‑sign as temporary.
Let me remind you I am not a preacher of any world system. I have nothing to defend and the scripture doesn't need my help defending itself.
The creation rest of Genesis 2 is not a command;
Adam is never told to keep a Sabbath.
The first actual Sabbath command appears in Exodus 16 and is then stamped as “a sign… between Me and you throughout your generations” (Exod 31:13–17).
A sign is, by definition, typological — it points beyond itself.
Leviticus 23 groups the weekly Sabbath with the festival Sabbaths using the same ceremonial vocabulary, and Paul’s triad — “festival, new moon, sabbaths” — shows the weekly day belongs to the shadow‑system fulfilled in Christ (Col 2:16–17).
So the Sabbath is a shadow because God made it the covenant marker of Israel, not because it was invented after sin.
The moral principle — rest, trust, worship — is eternal; the seventh‑day sign is not.

 

[TMS]

The Sabbath is included in the Ten not because it is an eternal moral principle but because it is the covenant sign of the Mosaic administration (Exod 31:13–17), the badge marking Israel’s national relationship to YHWH; that is why God placed it in the Decalogue — not because its calendar form is universal, but because the Ten Words function as the covenant preamble.
Leviticus 23 explicitly groups the weekly Sabbath with the festival Sabbaths, using the same vocabulary (“holy convocation,” “no work,” “it is a sabbath”), proving the weekly day is part of the ceremonial system.

Exo 31:13-17
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

This is clearly the expansion of the law.

Like murder and Adultery Moses was given extra information about the moral laws, how to judge people, etc...

This does not make it a shadow law.

Yes it was specifically for the children of Israel. But this is because they were HIS choosen people.

As God's choosen people today the same principle applies..

1. The sabbath is a sign between God and His people.
2. that His people may know that the LORD that doth sanctify them.
3. Wherefore the children of Israel, God people today shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
4. It is a sign between me and the Gods children for ever:
5. for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Who is the Israel of God today with this perpetual covenant?
Gal 6:15-16
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:28-29.

When did the Sabbath stop being a sign for the people of God.

 

[OMC]

Exo 31:13-17
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

This is clearly the expansion of the law.

Like murder and Adultery Moses was given extra information about the moral laws, how to judge people, etc...

This does not make it a shadow law.

Yes it was specifically for the children of Israel. But this is because they were HIS choosen people.

As God's choosen people today the same principle applies..

1. The sabbath is a sign between God and His people.
2. that His people may know that the LORD that doth sanctify them.
3. Wherefore the children of Israel, God people today shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
4. It is a sign between me and the Gods children for ever:
5. for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Who is the Israel of God today with this perpetual covenant?
Gal 6:15-16
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:28-29.

When did the Sabbath stop being a sign for the people of God.

Read post #483

 

[TMS]

The moral principle — rest, trust, worship — is eternal; the seventh‑day sign is not

The sabbath is about worship.

Types were things that pointed to a greater fulfillment. And shadows are a lesser version of the greater thing.

For example the lamb without spot pointed to Jesus.

The earthly sanctuary was a shadow of the heavenly sanctuary.

God gave these types and shadows to point Israel to the Messiah and the plan of salvation.

When does God's truth become void.
When does a law given by God become void????

When it is replaced by the real deal.

When Type meets antitype.

Jesus is the truth.... and light of the world.
Does that mean all past truth is made void or the literal light is not needed today?

When You presume that all the laws given to Israel are shadows or types you can make the whole old testament void.

Because God used the sabbath as a sign in Israel's day does not make it a typological sign. The rainbow was a sign in Noah's day.
if God made it a sign for Israel why can't God use it for a sign of His people in the last days.

Every feast has an antityical fulfillment in time. But the sabbath was made holy before sin and we are told to keep it holy because God blessed it. Not because it is a type or shadow.

 

[OMC]

The sabbath is about worship.

Types were things that pointed to a greater fulfillment. And shadows are a lesser version of the greater thing.

For example the lamb without spot pointed to Jesus.

The earthly sanctuary was a shadow of the heavenly sanctuary.

God gave these types and shadows to point Israel to the Messiah and the plan of salvation.

When does God's truth become void.
When does a law given by God become void????

When it is replaced by the real deal.

When Type meets antitype.

Jesus is the truth.... and light of the world.
Does that mean all past truth is made void or the literal light is not needed today?

When You presume that all the laws given to Israel are shadows or types you can make the whole old testament void.

Because God used the sabbath as a sign in Israel's day does not make it a typological sign. The rainbow was a sign in Noah's day.
if God made it a sign for Israel why can't God use it for a sign of His people in the last days.

Every feast has an antityical fulfillment in time. But the sabbath was made holy before sin and we are told to keep it holy because God blessed it. Not because it is a type or shadow.

You really need to show scripture that backs your claims like this my friend, the Sabbath sign belonged to Israel’s covenant, and that covenant is now obsolete (Heb 8:13), so its sign no longer binds the church.
Paul says the Sabbath was a shadow and Christ the body (Col 2:16–17); when the body arrives, the shadow’s legal force ends.
Genesis 2 never commands Adam to keep a Sabbath; the first command appears in Exodus 16, and the sign‑logic appears in Exodus 31, tied explicitly to Israel.
The moral principle of rest and worship continues, but the seventh‑day sign does not. (Hebrews 4:3,10; John 4:23–24; Colossians 2:16–17; Hebrews 8:13)

 

[TMS]

The fourth commandment becomes a typological shadow not because it first appears in Eden, but because God Himself assigns it a typological, covenant‑sign function under Moses — and Scripture explicitly treats that covenant‑sign as temporary.

I do not see temporary in this sign.
God gave it as a commandment but God did not assign it as a typological sign or day.

The day was made holy at creation and made for man at creation.

Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

perpetual = H5769 ‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm

BDB Definition:

long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
ancient time, long time (of past)
(of future)
for ever, always
continuous existence, perpetual
everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

A long or forever covenant..

How has that sign changed for us today.

Isa 66:22-23
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

 

[OMC]

I do not see temporary in this sign.
God gave it as a commandment but God did not assign it as a typological sign or day.

The day was made holy at creation and made for man at creation.

Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

perpetual = H5769 ‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm

BDB Definition:

long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
ancient time, long time (of past)
(of future)
for ever, always
continuous existence, perpetual
everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity

A long or forever covenant..

How has that sign changed for us today.

Isa 66:22-23
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

‘Olam’ doesn’t force the sign to outlive the covenant it marks, because Scripture itself uses ‘olam’ for things that end (Exod 21:6; Jonah 2:6), and Exodus 31 limits the Sabbath‑sign to Israel “throughout their generations,” not mankind.
Genesis 2 blesses the day but gives no command to Adam; the command and the sign appear only in Moses, and Hebrews says that covenant is “ready to vanish away” (Heb 8:13), which means its sign vanishes with it.
Isaiah 66 uses Israel’s calendar as prophetic imagery — the same passage mentions Levites in the new creation (Isa 66:21), proving it’s symbolic, not Mosaic‑law reinstatement.
The NT’s own line is final: sabbaths are a shadow, and the body is Christ

 

[TMS]

You really need to show scripture that backs your claims like this my friend, the Sabbath sign belonged to Israel’s covenant, and that covenant is now obsolete (Heb 8:13), so its sign no longer binds the church.

Be specific... the sabbath was a sign
But there is a difference between the covenant and the commandments
The old covenant was replaced by the new.
The grounds on which laws were nailed to the cross is the fact that the type had meet the antitype and the shadows were no longer needed to point to the real thing.
The sabbath was not a type or a shadow law.

Not Murdering was not a type or shadow.
Not coveting was not a type or shadow law.

These laws were not nailed to the cross

The fact that the sabbath was a sign and was part of the Old covenant does not automatically made it a shadow or typological..

Rom 13:9-10
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

these laws were connected to the old covenant but that does not make the void..

 

[TMS]

‘Olam’ doesn’t force the sign to outlive the covenant it marks, because Scripture itself uses ‘olam’ for things that end (Exod 21:6; Jonah 2:6), and Exodus 31 limits the Sabbath‑sign to Israel “throughout their generations,” not mankind.
Genesis 2 blesses the day but gives no command to Adam; the command and the sign appear only in Moses, and Hebrews says that covenant is “ready to vanish away” (Heb 8:13), which means its sign vanishes with it.
Isaiah 66 uses Israel’s calendar as prophetic imagery — the same passage mentions Levites in the new creation (Isa 66:21), proving it’s symbolic, not Mosaic‑law reinstatement.
The NT’s own line is final: sabbaths are a shadow, and the body is Christ

But the sabbath was made holy before sin.

Regardless of a command..

The sabbath was created before sin. It was not created as a type or as a shadow to save us or help us understand sin. It was made before types or shadows were needed.

 

[OMC]

Be specific... the sabbath was a sign
But there is a difference between the covenant and the commandments
The old covenant was replaced by the new.
The grounds on which laws were nailed to the cross is the fact that the type had meet the antitype and the shadows were no longer needed to point to the real thing.
The sabbath was not a type or a shadow law.

Not Murdering was not a type or shadow.
Not coveting was not a type or shadow law.

These laws were not nailed to the cross

The fact that the sabbath was a sign and was part of the Old covenant does not automatically made it a shadow or typological..

Rom 13:9-10
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

these laws were connected to the old covenant but that does not make the void..

The system you’re articulating is classic Adventist sabbatarianism:
It divides the Mosaic law into “moral vs. ceremonial,” treats the Ten Commandments as a separate, timeless moral code, insists the Sabbath is moral rather than typological, and argues that only “shadow‑laws” were nailed to the cross while the Sabbath remains because it is “not a shadow.” But that framework is not a biblical category.

Scripture never divides the law into moral/ceremonial,
never isolates the Decalogue as a covenant‑free moral code, and
explicitly calls Sabbaths part of the shadow‑system fulfilled in Christ (Col 2:16–17).

Hebrews says the whole covenant that contained the Ten Commandments is obsolete (Heb 8:13), and Paul quotes several commandments in Romans 13 not to preserve the Sinai covenant but to show how love fulfills the law — he does not resurrect the covenant tablets.
Your system assumes the Sabbath is moral like “do not murder,” but the Bible treats it differently:
murder is rooted in creation ethics;
the Sabbath is rooted in Israel’s covenant sign (Exod 31:13–17).
That distinction is textual, not theological invention.

 

[OMC]

But the sabbath was made holy before sin.

Regardless of a command..

The sabbath was created before sin. It was not created as a type or as a shadow to save us or help us understand sin. It was made before types or shadows were needed.

Genesis 2 says God sanctified the seventh day, but it never says man kept it, never commands Adam, never shows a weekly human practice — creation origin does not make something a moral law.

 

[TMS]

and Exodus 31 limits the Sabbath‑sign to Israel “throughout their generations,” not mankind.

Do you believe we are Spiritual Israel today?

That Israel today is not literal blood lines but those that follow Jesus.

Gal 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise"

As the seed of Abraham, or as an Israelite, that means the perpetual sabbath covenant still applies to me.

 

[OMC]

Do you believe we are Spiritual Israel today?

That Israel today is not literal blood lines but those that follow Jesus.

Gal 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise"

As the seed of Abraham, or as an Israelite, that means the perpetual sabbath covenant still applies to me.

You’re mixing two categories the Bible keeps separate:
being Abraham’s seed by faith and being Israel under the Sinai covenant.

Galatians 3:29 says believers are Abraham’s seed — heirs of the promise, not members of the Mosaic nation;
Paul explicitly says the law, given 430 years later, does not add conditions to the Abrahamic promise (Gal 3:17).

The NT never calls the church “spiritual Israel” in a way that transfers Sinai’s covenant‑signs to believers; instead it says the Sinai covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13), and its sign — the Sabbath — belonged to Israel’s generations (Exod 31:13–17), not Abraham’s.

Abraham was justified before the law, before the Sabbath command, and before the covenant sign existed.
Being Abraham’s seed by faith makes you an heir of the promise, not a participant in the Sinai sign‑system.
The NT’s own classification is decisive: Sabbaths are shadows fulfilled in Christ, and heirs of Abraham inherit Christ, not the covenant‑signs of Moses.

 

[TMS]

Scripture never divides the law into moral/ceremonial,

Do you agree that when Israel said they would obey the laws and made the old covenant with God.
That Some were typological and some were moral? That some were cerimonial and some were moral laws?

do you agree there is a difference between the cerimonial and moral laws..

 

[OMC]

Do you agree that when Israel said they would obey the laws and made the old covenant with God.
That Some were typological and some were moral? That some were cerimonial and some were moral laws?

do you agree there is a difference between the cerimonial and moral laws..

No — Scripture never teaches a moral/ceremonial split, and the moment you ask “do you agree there is a difference,” you’re asking me to accept a category the Bible never gives.

 

[TMS]

Abraham was justified before the law, before the Sabbath command, and before the covenant sign existed.

Rom 11:16-18
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

 

[OMC]

Rom 11:16-18
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Romans 11:16–18 does not say Gentile believers inherit the Sinai covenant or its signs; it says they are grafted into the Abrahamic root, not the Mosaic tree.
The “root” in Romans 11 is Abrahamic promise (Rom 4:11–13), not the covenant made at Sinai (Gal 3:17 says Sinai came 430 years after the promise and cannot redefine it).
Being grafted in means you share the life of the root — justification by faith — not the signs of the old covenant
Abraham never kept a weekly Sabbath, never received a Sabbath command, and never lived under the covenant whose sign it was. Gentiles grafted into the olive tree partake of the root and fatness — the promise, the righteousness by faith, the blessing of Abraham (Gal 3:8–9) — not the covenant‑signs of Moses.

 

[TMS]

No — Scripture never teaches a moral/ceremonial split, and the moment you ask “do you agree there is a difference,” you’re asking me to accept a category the Bible never gives.

But there is a difference.

The laws given to deal with sin ....
The shedding of the blood and the earthly temple all pointed to Jesus and the plan of salvation. These laws do no define sin. They deal with sin

But thou shalt not murder defines sin.

One law is perfect and eternal, while the other was a "yoke" of ceremonies that met its fulfillment at the cross of Calvary.

There is a difference.

The moral law is described as "perfect, converting the soul" Psalm 19:7. Roms 7:12 and holy and good.
However, the first covenant arrangement, which included the Levitical services, was "not faultless" Hebrews 8:7.


We are to be judged by the "law of liberty," which includes the commands against adultery and murder James 2:11-12. But the ceremonial system, called the "handwriting of ordinances," was "blotted out" and "nailed to his cross" Colossians 2:14.

Paul distinguishes the moral law as "spiritual" Romans 7:14, while referring to the ceremonial requirements as "carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation" Hebrews 9:10.

Dan 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

Thy = God's law
And Moses law is also mentioned in the same verse. Is there a difference?

Surely you can see the difference.