Isa 53:6 "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."
Read the entire chapter. You have a bible don't you?
Man imputed Jesus with sin on the cross, not God.
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Read the entire chapter. You have a bible don't you?
To all Skeptics who love to point at this one: Scripture calls Jesus sinless, yet says He "became sin." So which is it?
The answer doesn't start in 2 Corinthians. It starts back in Exodus and Leviticus. Under the Law, a sacrifice had to be without blemish. Exodus 12:5 says the Passover lamb must be "without blemish, a male of the first year," and Leviticus repeats the same standard over and over (Leviticus 22:19-21). A flawed or sickly animal was disqualified before it ever reached the altar. It simply couldn't atone for anything.
That's the key to the whole question. Christ's sinlessness was never in tension with Him bearing sin. It was the qualification for it. Peter says it plainly, calling believers redeemed "with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Peter 1:19). He had to be perfect before He could bear sin, not perfect instead of bearing it. A guilty man can't pay a debt of guilt he already owns himself.
This is also what's happening in Isaiah 53:6. "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." That phrase, "laid on him," is the same language used for the Day of Atonement, when the priest laid his hands on the scapegoat and transferred the sins of the camp onto an animal that had done nothing wrong (Leviticus 16:21-22). The goat didn't become sinful. It carried a charge that was never its own. That's a transfer of guilt, not a transfer of character.
Paul spells it out: "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" (2 Corinthians 5:21). "Made to be sin" is legal language, not chemistry. It means Christ was credited with our sin, not infected by it. Think of it this way: if a judge orders an innocent man's debt paid, that doesn't make the innocent man dishonest. The category here is judicial, not moral.
And that verse doesn't stop halfway. It's a two-way exchange. Our guilt went to Him, His righteousness comes to us. Neither side changes what they actually are. That's the whole point of Isaiah 53 in miniature. The same chapter that says "we have turned every one to his own way" also says "with his stripes we are healed" (Isaiah 53:5). The wound is real, the exchange is real, and the price was paid by someone who owed nothing.
So the "contradiction" only works if you assume "sin" can only mean a moral quality a person has. Scripture is using it here in its legal sense, a charge someone bears, the same way the spotless lamb never became a sinner just by standing in for one. Once you see that distinction, a sinless Christ bearing sin isn't a contradiction. It's the whole logic of the sacrificial system, brought home at the cross.
The answer doesn't start in 2 Corinthians. It starts back in Exodus and Leviticus. Under the Law, a sacrifice had to be without blemish. Exodus 12:5 says the Passover lamb must be "without blemish, a male of the first year," and Leviticus repeats the same standard over and over (Leviticus 22:19-21). A flawed or sickly animal was disqualified before it ever reached the altar. It simply couldn't atone for anything.
That's the key to the whole question. Christ's sinlessness was never in tension with Him bearing sin. It was the qualification for it. Peter says it plainly, calling believers redeemed "with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Peter 1:19). He had to be perfect before He could bear sin, not perfect instead of bearing it. A guilty man can't pay a debt of guilt he already owns himself.
This is also what's happening in Isaiah 53:6. "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." That phrase, "laid on him," is the same language used for the Day of Atonement, when the priest laid his hands on the scapegoat and transferred the sins of the camp onto an animal that had done nothing wrong (Leviticus 16:21-22). The goat didn't become sinful. It carried a charge that was never its own. That's a transfer of guilt, not a transfer of character.
Paul spells it out: "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" (2 Corinthians 5:21). "Made to be sin" is legal language, not chemistry. It means Christ was credited with our sin, not infected by it. Think of it this way: if a judge orders an innocent man's debt paid, that doesn't make the innocent man dishonest. The category here is judicial, not moral.
And that verse doesn't stop halfway. It's a two-way exchange. Our guilt went to Him, His righteousness comes to us. Neither side changes what they actually are. That's the whole point of Isaiah 53 in miniature. The same chapter that says "we have turned every one to his own way" also says "with his stripes we are healed" (Isaiah 53:5). The wound is real, the exchange is real, and the price was paid by someone who owed nothing.
So the "contradiction" only works if you assume "sin" can only mean a moral quality a person has. Scripture is using it here in its legal sense, a charge someone bears, the same way the spotless lamb never became a sinner just by standing in for one. Once you see that distinction, a sinless Christ bearing sin isn't a contradiction. It's the whole logic of the sacrificial system, brought home at the cross.
You have quite a bad attitude for someone trying to teach biblical principles. Where is the fruit of the Holy Spirit?
And I see the death as separation from God, which did occur with the first act of sin.
Your understanding of the Hebrew clashes with what I learned in my Hebrew classes. I was taught that the double use of the word for dying was an emphatic idiom in Hebrew implying absolute certainty.
And when one references Jesus paying the price for sin, the question arises, to whom did He pay the price? The law that called for blood was written for the benefit of humanity, so that becomes problematic. If the price was paid to God, it amounted to God moving money from one pocket to another and claiming that some price was paid, and that the law somehow had priority over humanity, which contradicts that the law was for the benefit of humanity. If it was to Satan, according to Job, he only had what authority God allowed him, so how did he get so much.
Likewise, to claim that our physical, mortal bodies become immortal requires some brand new laws of physics. Yet the existent laws of physics seem to have applied for hundreds of millions of years, if not billions, or since safely before any humans existed, so when did there ever exist a chance for immortal physical bodies? Yet if you refer to non-physical bodies, how did a physical act cause such a problem as to so harm a nonphysical entity?
Right. And that is spiritual death. My point was that both physical and spiritual death are in view.
oops.. did not take long to refute the assumption man did it..lol
If you want to go off on a tanget to something else, then you can start another thread.
“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.”
Matthew 7:1-5 KJV
The following verses are determined by Is 53:3-4. But, you are the first to at least acknowledge Is 53:3-4.
First, what God actually did not do, was impute His Son with sin, nor esteem Him guilty of death. But only by sinful men.
Second, what God actually did do, was command His Son to submit Himself into the hands of sinful men, who unlawfully smote Him. Not of God.
And so, the only question is how God, who did not impute Him nor smite Him, did lay the iniquity of the sinful men upon Him?
First, he did not lay their iniquity upon His Son Himself. But only hands of sinful men did so.
Second, Their iniquity was laid by them only upon His body, not His soul.
And so, God laying the iniquity of the smiters upon His So's body, is not Himself laying stripes upon Him, nor does he lay any iniquity upon His soul.
By command of the Father to submit to sinful men's hands, do they lay stripes on Him and smite Him to a tree. Both the command and obedience are met with death, but not by their own hands.
The Commander does not kill the obedient soldier by sending him into battle, though His command does send him to meet his death.
The Father's hands do not stripe nor smite His Son's body, by commanding submission to the wicked smiters.
Nor does the Father impute the Son with sin worthy of death, by the Son obediently submitting to the sin and unworthy death at the hands of His enemies.
The obedeint Son is not imputed guilty of death, by obedient submission unto death.
The righteous are not imputed with the sin of the unrighteous, who unrighteously slay them: Might does not make right.
Though you do rightly acknmowledge Is 53:3-4, you are now trying to argue, that only sinful men imputed sin to the Son, and wrongly esteemed Him smitten of God, and yet God laying their iniquity upon Him, is imputing Him with sin and smitten of God...
If God imputed the Son with sin, then their judgment would have been right: That He was a blasphemer guilty of death by law of God.
Either men unjustly imputed the Son with sin and unrighteously smote Him, or God did impute Him with sin and rightly smote Him by law. It can't be both, without God also unjustly imputing and wrongly esteeming the Son smitten by law.
Is 53:3-4 declares the former, not the latter. Therefore, God laying iniquity of the smiters upon His Son's body by obedience, is not imputing His Son's obedient submission with sin and guilt worthy of death.
God commanded His Son to submit into the hands of sinners. God did not command the sinners to smite Him.
The Son obeyed God by submitting Himself into the hands of sinners. The sinners did not obey God by sinfully smiting Him. He was smitten against the law, not by law of God:
Mat 21:37
But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
If God imputed His Son with sin, when sending Him into the hands of husbmandmen, then the husbandmen did right to kill the Son.
Luk 24:7
Jesus Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
The gospel of Jesus Christ is the Son submitting into the hands of sinners, even unto death on the cross. That by His resurrection, He might have mercy upon His enemies that repent.
If our own sinning sent the Son to the cross, and unjustly hung Him from a tree, does not produce righteous repentance from our own sins and trespasses, then the Father is exceeding just to destroy His Son's enemies, that repent not of continuing to transgress the law, and do evil against Him.
Rom 7:13
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Sinful men transgressed the law against shedding innocent blood, by unjustly esteeming Him guilty of blasphemy, and hanging Him on a tree.
Jesus submitting into their sinful hands, submitted also into our own, for we also have sinned and done evil against God and His Christ.
1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Suffering unjust death for our sins, does not commend us to God, but condemns us, the same as the wicked hands that slew Him.
Jesus did not die only because of the sins of them at the cross, but also because of our sins also.
Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Jesus Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
The gospel of Jesus Christ is the Son submitting into the hands of sinners, even unto death on the cross. That by His resurrection, He might have mercy upon His enemies that repent.
If our own sinning sent the Son to the cross, and unjustly hung Him from a tree, does not produce righteous repentance from our own sins and trespasses, then the Father is exceeding just to destroy His Son's enemies, that repent not of continuing to transgress the law, and do evil against Him.
Rom 7:13
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Sinful men transgressed the law against shedding innocent blood, by unjustly esteeming Him guilty of blasphemy, and hanging Him on a tree.
Jesus submitting into their sinful hands, submitted also into our own, for we also have sinned and done evil against God and His Christ.
1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Suffering unjust death for our sins, does not commend us to God, but condemns us, the same as the wicked hands that slew Him.
Jesus did not die only because of the sins of them at the cross, but also because of our sins also.
Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
You are assuming that if God lays iniquity on His Servant, He must be declaring Him a blasphemer — but Isaiah separates those categories:
men wrongly “esteemed Him stricken” (53:4),
while God truly “laid on Him the iniquity of us all” (53:6) and
made His soul the sin‑offering (53:10).
You keep insisting “only sinful men laid anything on Him,” but Isaiah says the opposite:
God Himself “made Him bear their iniquities” (53:11–12).
You argue that if God laid sin on Him, the murderers were right — but that’s a category error;
God imputing our sin to the righteous Substitute does not justify the wicked who killed Him, it fulfills the atonement pattern where “the just suffers for the unjust” (1 Pet 3:18).
Your “body not soul” claim is directly contradicted by the text:
“Thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin.”
And your “Commander sending a soldier” analogy fails because Isaiah doesn’t say God merely sent Him — Isaiah says God laid, made, bruised, offered, and bore.
Men acted in wickedness (Matt 21:37–39), but God acted in purpose (Acts 2:23).
The biblical chain is clear and you’re trying to break it:
men misjudge (53:4),
God lays sin (53:6),
Christ bears it (53:11–12),
His soul is the offering (53:10).
Your position cannot stand because it contradicts the very verses you claim to honor.
Already explained the false binary, is only if the false tradition is true.
Jesus was not imputed with our sins by God, nor paid the price for sin by law.
Sins were only laid upon His body by sinners. Jesus' soul remained pure and alive without sin.
True.
Christ's death was applied to all that sinned against Christ, not just them that killed Him.
Christ's resurrection life is now applied to them that repent of sinfully nailing Him to a cross.
Anyone who says they themselves were never guilty of His death, are saying they themselves never sinned against Him:
1Jo 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
True. All that now sin against Christ, are equally condemned as them that slew Him:
Heb 6:6
...seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
If crucifying the Son by our own sins and trespasses does not produce whole repentance from sinning against Him, then God is exceeding just to destroy all His enemies, that repent not of His death.
Rom 7:13
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Suppose you went to court on a serious charge. You are guilty. The judge declares you guilty. But he says that the one you did wrong is made the guilty one in your place.
Only false judges imputed sin and guilt to the Son.
The innocent one is made guilty and paid the death price of guilt.
Only false judges esteemed Jesus worthy of death.
No need to accept guilt, when the innocent one is made guilty.
Because another is made guilty and paie the death price of guilt.
Therefore, we have the false doctrine of not being condemned for sinning, because Jesus was made guilty in our place, and already paid the death fine for sinning.
Either the fine is paid or not. If paid by Jesus as the guilty one, then no man is guilty of Jesus' death.
If not paid by Jesus the righteous one, then all men must pay the guilt price of His death.
Except we repent of His death, and do His righteousness by His resurrection from the dead.
Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
The fine of sin is death of the soul, not of the body.
His body only tasted of death for three days, without corruption.
On our behalf is not instead of us. On our behalf He submitted to sinful hands, to be falsely esteemed guilty of sin by sinful men.
His soul did not die to God by sin, instead of us who sinned against Him.
Every man is dead as Adam by our own transgression. Any man is alive by Jesus with our own repentance from transgression.
Correct. People can still continue sinning against Him, even after crucifying Him to tree.
Rom 7:13
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
If Jesus was nailed to a tree because of our sins, then no man has any excuse for our own sinning. And God is exceeding just to destroy us, if we repent not of doing Him evil.
Psa 51:3
For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
God judges all men guilty of His Son's death, that do evil against Christ. His judgment against all sin and trespass is clear by His own words, and just.
Jesus' soul not die by sin to God, but only His body was killed by sinning against Him.
Jesus' soul had no sin unto death, nor did He curse His smiters with His lips nor His heart:
1 Pe 2:22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth. Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
Every soul still dies by our own sinning, except we repent of the sinning against Him.
How many of our sins were current against Jesus? All that have sinned against Jesus.
He died for all our sins, and so all our sinning nailed Him to a cross.
The offence of the cross, is not only that sinful men crucified the innocent Son of God, but also that all us that sinned against Him, are guilty of His death at the cross.
If the Son was imputed with our sin against Him, so that His soul died to God in our place, then that cross is only offensive to the innocent and the just, that have ever been unlawfully accused, condemned, and put to death.
Deu 21:22
And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;
Hanging on a tree because of evil committed against us, is accursed of God. Hanging on a tree because of evil committed against us, is not accursed of God.
And so the false tradition must contradict itself:
How can Jesus pay for our sins at the cross, and yet our sins were not current at the cross.
If there is no guilt of His death by our sins, He could not pay for our guilt at His death.
Only if we are all guilty of His death, can He suffer and die for our sinning against Him.
If He did not die because of our own sinning at the cross, then He did not die for our sinning at the cross.
I know you have a different tradition about God and Jesus Christ at the cross, than from the Bible.
Not vindictive at all, taking no pleasure in the death of the unrighteous.
But He is exceeding just in destroying His enemies, that repent not of sinning against His Son at the cross.
Because God is the righteous Judge of all the earth, He keeps His word that only the soul that sins, is guilty and shall die.
God is not unjust and wicked, to impute the guilt of the guilty upon the innocent, and make the innocent pay the death price instead of the guilty.
That false tradition is only made for sinners against Christ, that justify themselves by His death on a cross. The same as those that falsely imputed Him with sin of blasphemy, and unlawfully cursed and crucified Him to a tree.
Mat 23:29
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
1Co 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed:
No Scripture anywhere says that the guilty laying hands on the innocent beast, imputes their sin to the beast.
Escpeially not laying wicked hands on the the innocent Lamb of God.
Act 2:22
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Jesus commanded and submitted to wicked hands, does not imput to Him the sin of wicked hands.
Even as the OT beasts, that had no sin on them nor their body, neither did the Lamb of God: Jesus body went to the tomb without corruption of sin. Jesus' soul went to hell to preach against sin.
If the sacrifice is made sinful with sin upon it, then it is unacceptable to God for sacrifice for sin.
The sin sacrifice is so called, because it's being offered for sin, not because it has sin.
Already corrected. Sinful men unlawfully imputed sin to Christ.
Already corrected. God did not put His hands on His Son's body. Only wicked hands of men striped, beat, and hung Him on a tree.
The false tradition of God 'putting' someone else's sinning on an innocent beast or man, is spiritualized mysticism, not Scripture of truth.
2Th 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:
Gen 22:8
And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering:
God cannot impute sin to Himself, nor esteem Himself guilty of death, nor die on a cross. Else, the Son is not God Himself.
God can submit His body to the hands of sinful men, but God cannot lay sin on His own soul. Else, the Son is not God come in the flesh.
And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering:
God cannot impute sin to Himself, nor esteem Himself guilty of death, nor die on a cross. Else, the Son is not God Himself.
God can submit His body to the hands of sinful men, but God cannot lay sin on His own soul. Else, the Son is not God come in the flesh.