Man imputed Jesus with sin on the cross, not God.

[PaulThomson]

You have not understood the verse below and that is plain from this long rendering you created above. Just one verse and you ignore it and create a word salad that condenses your apparent confusion into it.


God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” II Cor. 5:21

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to demonstrate the truth of your comments by citing specific parts of my post that do what you claim I am doing. At the moment all you are doing is being dismissive

I gave a fulsome explanation of 2 Cor. 5:21 in my post #173. What specifically in that post shows you that I ignored that verse? The whole post was about that verse.

 

[OMC]

You wrote -
OMC said:
What would you call a person whose spirit has not yet been quickened by God?

If you proposed that someone's spirit has not yet been quickened by God, you certainly seem to me to have said that some spirits become quickened. If someone's spirit were not yet quickened/made alive, then it must be presently dead. And if it became not dead, it would be a spirit that has been quickened/made alive.

We were dead in/because of sins because we were destined for permanent physical death because of sins. But when Jesus rose, we were no longer destined for permanent physical death; we became destined for a physical resurrection.

We were also dead in sins, i.e. our works were sins/faithless dead works because of sin in our flesh. But the Holy Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead, Jesus shares with us, so that we are willing and empowered to do faith-filled living works. We were made alive together with Christ.

I think we have seen that the term "spiritually dead" is not in the Bible. Please, make a biblical claim by restating your claim using terms that are in the Bible.

No I dont think I will because we were spiritually dead and until God quickened my spirit I would have remained spiritually dead. Thats not the term or phrase used but the meaning is the same. Get over it or block me but your demand I chose phrasing better suited to your limited understanding is a deflection. Grow up.

 

[pinebeach]

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to demonstrate the truth of your comments by citing specific parts of my post that do what you claim I am doing. At the moment all you are doing is being dismissive

I gave a fulsome explanation of 2 Cor. 5:21 in my post #173. What specifically in that post shows you that I ignored that verse? The whole post was about that verse.

I think you have become lost in who is saying what.

 

[PaulThomson]

No I dont think I will because we were spiritually dead and until God quickened my spirit I would have remained spiritually dead. Thats not the term or phrase used but the meaning is the same. Get over it or block me but your demand I chose phrasing better suited to your limited understanding is a deflection. Grow up.

Your adopted theological system is overriding your ability to reason using scripture itself. If you cannot state your theology using the terms used by scripture, you are wandering out of the Way.

 

[PaulThomson]

I think you have become lost in who is saying what.

Post #173 was addressed to you about that verse. Your saying I avoided that verse is clearly a lie. Christians should not be telling lies.

 

[OMC]

Your adopted theological system is overriding your ability to reason using scripture itself. If you cannot state your theology using the terms used by scripture, you are wandering out of the Way.

What system Are you accusing me of following? And since you use the word reason like GWH does I can only assume you are one that places his reason above scripture. Your system is overriding your ability to fear God. You are out of the way.

 

[pinebeach]

Post #173 was addressed to you about that verse. Your saying I avoided that verse is clearly a lie. Christians should not be telling lies.

Let me put this another way. I'm not interested in a discussion with you. Thank you

 

[pinebeach]

The premise of this thread is sheer lunacy. Someone had to say it.

 

[PaulThomson]

Let me put this another way. I'm not interested in a discussion with you. Thank you

No one is forcing you to respond to my posts. It is enough that other readers can read my posts and my interlocutors' posts and decide for themselves who makes more sense. I have no co-dependent need to have you or anyone else agree with me.

 

[PaulThomson]

this is one of the most foolish things I have heard and unlearned about GRACE. Isaiah was a prophet who foretold of the coming suffering Massiah.

Jesus is also known as the Lamb of God as John stated That takes the sin of the world away. John 1: 29.

This liberal theology is blasphemous, and foolish.

What is foolish is the insistence that the words scripture uses can only be understood in one possible way, and that you have that only correct way.

 

[PaulThomson]

who else imputed our sins to christ? How else did he who knew no sin become sin for us?

Where does scripture say our sins were "imputed" to Christ? There is so much that people think the Bible says that it simply does not say.

 

[PaulThomson]

Lemme guess, we’re stuck at salvation? Another baby staring at his mother’s womb, gaining insight about if he was really born or not.

I would deduce from ATG's posts that they know whether they are are saved or not. Why do you think they are unsure about that?

 

[Burn1986]

I would deduce from ATG's posts that they know whether they are are saved or not. Why do you think they are unsure about that?

Because we’re still talking about/ arguing about salvation. Why should a person who’s born (again) sit around and argue or rant about being born?! No. They should be out living! This doesn’t discount what Jesus did for us, but why are we stopping at it? We need to move on and receive the bigger things (in the spirit).

 

[PaulThomson]

Because we’re still talking about/ arguing about salvation. Why should a person who’s born (again) sit around and argue or rant about being born?! No. They should be out living! This doesn’t discount what Jesus did for us, but why are we stopping at it? We need to move on and receive the bigger things (in the spirit).

ATG is not arguing here about what we must do to be saved. He is questioning whether God did exactly what the theory of Penal Substitutionary Atonement (PSA) demands that He had to do to effect salvation; and whether the demands of PSA might in fact impugn God's character.

 

[pinebeach]

No one is forcing you to respond to my posts. It is enough that other readers can read my posts and my interlocutors' posts and decide for themselves who makes more sense. I have no co-dependent need to have you or anyone else agree with me.

The Bible makes sense, YOU, as has been see, do not. The op also does not make sense...nothing new there. Your posts dismiss the actual gospel. You deny the actual core of the gospel and state the Bible does not say what it actually does say. That is what is actually going on. Your posts are outrageous along with the op. He is outrageous in what he states and you agree with him. Don't flatter yourself by thinking for one second I enjoy or need to read what you write. What you write is anti-gospel as people have
shown you a good many times now.

You are confused. I am not here to read your travesty of understanding. I post what is the correct understanding so that people
who may not know the truth, can read it, look it up and know what the Bible actually states. You, do not write what the Bible actually says about imputation. You argue against it and create some mumbo jumbo that is not scripture and illustrates confusion on your
part and resistance to the truth.

Our sins were imputed to Christ whether or not you think so. It says so in scripture but apparently you think otherwise.

Where does scripture say our sins were "imputed" to Christ? There is so much that people think the Bible says that it simply does not say.

The actual problem here, is that scripture says it as I shall post below, BUT you in your lack of understanding, do not understand it and to you and everyone like you, including the op, it means, therefore, that scripture does not say it.

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. II Cor. 5:21

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. I Peter 2:24

So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. Hebrews 9:28

For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
Romans 5:19

It does not matter what you think. The truth is what matters and that is found in scripture.

 

[Burn1986]

ATG is not arguing here about what we must do to be saved. He is questioning whether God did exactly what the theory of Penal Substitutionary Atonement (PSA) demands that He had to do to effect salvation; and whether the demands of PSA might in fact impugn God's character.

Oh I see - purely intellectual stuff. Got it. At least speak English bro. I’d like to take this question to a broken couple on the verge of divorce or financial collapse. “Hey, great news! No, I don’t have a spiritual insight to get you a breakthrough, but there is a great argument going on about ATG and PSA right now! I know! I am not making this up!” Haha

 

[pinebeach]

ATG is not arguing here about what we must do to be saved. He is questioning whether God did exactly what the theory of Penal Substitutionary Atonement (PSA) demands that He had to do to effect salvation; and whether the demands of PSA might in fact impugn God's character.

No.. He is just denying the gospel and the fact that Jesus bore our sins, meaning they were imputed onto Christ. He bore our punishment.

You can follow the op from now until the stars don't shine but both you and he and anyone who agrees with you are wrong and nothing will ever change that fact.

YOU are the one impugning God's character by disagreeing with His plan of salvation.

 

[pinebeach]

A common Christian tradition is that God imputed our sins to His Son Jesus on the cross, so that He would pay the price of our sins instead of us.

First, No Scripture ever says that the righteous God imputes any evil to the righteous, especially not the sins of those doing unrighteousness. And by no means to His own Son Jesus Christ the righteous, who never sinned, nor knew any sin in His own soul and life.

Reminds me of the devil in the garden : Aww now are you sure? Did God really say that? I don't think He meant that....I think you misunderstood.

When a person totally misses the actual transaction that we call 'the gospel', I think they are either not understanding salvation or,
they think they know better than every commentary, never mind language experts, and are demonstrating all that knowledge.

 

[tourist]

The premise of this thread is sheer lunacy. Someone had to say it.

No doubt.

 

[pinebeach]

I understand why God had Adam and Eve removed from the garden before they could live forever all mixed up and not responsible for understanding good and evil but perfectly capable of messing both up.